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How do you counter a stamblade with a magblade?

code65536
code65536
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I mostly do endgame PvE and my semi-casual PvP happens in spurts. The last time I PvPed was last summer, so I haven't followed the PvP-specific changes that closely.

I play a destro/resto ranged magblade, and last night, I ran into a stamblade ganker, and I did what I had always done in the past: Mark them. I typically haven't had much difficulty dispatching gankblades.

But I was in for a rude surprise when I found that my target can now cloak while still Marked because the reveal portion of Mark had been reduced to a pitiful 5s in Murkmire. All that the stamblade needs to do is dodge a couple of times, vigor, cloak, and he's reset the fight. I can't burst him down because I can't build and fire a bow proc in just 5s. So my question for the more seasoned PvPers out there: what could I be doing differently here?
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  • Jabbs_Giggity
    Jabbs_Giggity
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    Honestly, not trying to be a d***, but reroll...Magblades are dead in PVP, even more so come Elsweyr if current patch notes go to Live.
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
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    You are already doing something useful by slotting Mark.

    With the nerf to it you can't let the NB get LoS - meaning get them to chase you in an open area and then put it on them when they are visible.

    Then make sure you keep it on them. Many will freak out, some will freeze up, the smart ones will go offensive so be ready.

    Alternatively you can slot an AoE like Wall of Elements, slot Inner Light, or even run Detect Potions.
  • Insco851
    Insco851
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    Perma cloak them until they run outta juice. They can cloak... but not as much as you.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    My experience with them is as a healer when they try to gank from stealth:

    Break free - Mass Hysteria - Dodge roll if I feel I’m under threat - Heal a bit - Spam Ice blockade on them until someone else kills them. You could try something similar and tailor it to magblade ranged. Most of the time they don’t even fight back.

    I only play non-CP so constant dodge rolling isn’t a thing.
    Edited by Iskiab on April 25, 2019 10:21PM
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  • Noctus
    Noctus
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    magblade is inferior. given the situation ur in. ur better of using another class. that said its not like u cant take em down.

    if u rly wanna hurt em use scorching flare ..... they will never cloak again against u.
  • ccmedaddy
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    Just turn it into a battle of who can stay in cloak longer. You'll win 100% of the time.
  • Akinos
    Akinos
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    Use the spell power / detect pots and just stay on top of them, cripple and don't let them run. 9/10 stamblades will try to run when marked or even with a detect pot going. But they can't normally outrun your cloak/concealed or the movespeed buff from cripple.

    For a short while i ran mark and detect pots for the sole purpose of countering stamblades, **** em lol. There was just too many stamblades out there not to. However with the incoming nerfs we might not see as many stamblades soon.
    Edited by Akinos on April 26, 2019 1:33AM
    PC NA | @AkinosPvP 1vX/Small Scaler, Raid Leader, Youtuber and Twitch.tv Streamer.MAGICKA MELEE IS LIFE!Magplar, MagDK, Magden, Magblade, Magsorc & Magcro PvP/Build videos & moretwitch.tv/akinospvp
  • LordTareq
    LordTareq
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    Lots of bad info in this topic :)
    Point one, a stamblade can outdamage a magblade rather easily, and when facing a gankblade it is quite hard to survive the opener as a magblade. Point two a stamblade has better tools for survivability due to dodge roll & vigor. Point three, how the fight plays out all depends on which specific build is being played by both the stamblade and the magblade.

    Outcloaking semi-works, but you end up with a severely depleted magicka pool vs a full stamina pool of the stamblade. And some stamblades invest in magicka recovery so can actually last quite a long time staying cloaked. It also assumes the stamblade doesn't have caltrops or whirlwind slotted or uses detection potions himself. Detection potions are the best answer, or alternatively magelight works fairly well, though it pops you of cloak when you activate it.

    The near endless rolling is a thing in no-cp too, and the big issue with the fire staff is that flame reach/clench is super visible and slow moving so decent stamblades will dodge roll it and therefor also the swallow soul & light attack that follows. I've been in situations where my entire magicka pool was depleted without getting any hits in due to endless dodge rolls.

    Anyway the best answer to stamblades is in my opinion detection potions and/or radiant magelight to spot them, then after you manage to get a flameclench + swallow soul in which should drop about 40% of their health, immediately soul assault ultimate them. It's imho the best answer to dodge rolling gankblades with low hp.
  • Minalan
    Minalan
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    Wait for the nerfs next patch.

    Then at least the stamblade will be standing in the same toilet water magblade is.
  • kaithuzar
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    Only choice is to stay on top of them. Block cast sap whenever they’re going to hit you with a hard hitting attack. Detect pots + magelight, I don’t use mark, lotus fan would probably be better; but right now I’m not even using that until next patch.

    My fights against good stamblades normally don’t end, one or both of us cloak out.
    The good ones will always try & bait you either to their friends or to terrain where they can hump a tree/rock & have an advantage or frustrate you into making a mistake.

    I try to build for decent resist & recovery so when they come at me hard they’ve actually opened their squishy-selves up.
    Edited by kaithuzar on April 27, 2019 6:12AM
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  • Knootewoot
    Knootewoot
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    Cloak and sneak away. There is no point fighting them if they are aware of your presence.

    They hit harder
    They dodge all your attacks
    They can animation cancel more fluid
    They have better mobility

    Just... gtfo while you can
    ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
    "I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."
  • Ragnaroek93
    Ragnaroek93
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    Avoid getting stunned by Surprise Attack by all means (use Shade, dodge roll or block to do so). Other than that detect poisons and potions help a lot.
    I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.
  • ScruffyWhiskers
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    Need to get Zeytio on here and tell you. He's been running a magnb ranged build that kicks the stuffing out of stuff.

    EDIT: To be more actually helpful though, I would tell you to get to know your local stam nb's. There are a vast range of skill levels out there. Most you will be able to go toe to toe and prevail. It's virtually impossible to beat some of them if they decide that they want to disengage. All they need is a some dodge rolls and some LOS blockers. Ideally you want to use fear when they have to get in close. The loss of the heal on ward has really decreased survivability. Some great tips up above too from some of the best mag nb's in the game.
    Edited by ScruffyWhiskers on April 26, 2019 11:55AM
  • LegacyDM
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    Proc sets like grothdar and overwhelming will keep them visible. You just have to stay in range. Lotus fan helps with that. Alternatively use magelight or detect pots. Or you play smart and gank them first using calruuions legacy and avoid long fights if the gank fails.

    It really was dumb of zos to nerf mark. No one complained and it was the one thing that created a checks and balances on preventing the unbalanced situation your describing.it really is frustrating. Stamblades shouldn’t be able to cloak period. That should be reserved for mageblades. Stamblades Have more thN enough tools for survivability. I’d also be ok with reverting mark as a counter.
    Edited by LegacyDM on April 26, 2019 6:43PM
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  • Strider__Roshin
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    Kite, and keep your distance
  • Stibbons
    Stibbons
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    Joke: Reroll Magplar.
  • magblade88
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    My number one stamblade killer is soulassult.
    Ideally you spot them first hevy attack, flame reach soulassult dead.

    I also really like a dual weild destro combo with blockade of fire. Cripple and entropy help also.

    That mark target nerf was lame. Although once play nb for some time you wont need it. It becomes second nature finding stealthed players.
  • LordTareq
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    magblade88 wrote: »
    My number one stamblade killer is soulassult.
    Ideally you spot them first hevy attack, flame reach soulassult dead..

    Ideally :)
    I’ve noticed certain good ones can rally heal/vigor/potion + block to take minimal damage followed by ambush into incapacitating strike while you are vulnerable channeling. Still it usually works well enough.

  • elijafire
    elijafire
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    code65536 wrote: »
    I mostly do endgame PvE and my semi-casual PvP happens in spurts. The last time I PvPed was last summer, so I haven't followed the PvP-specific changes that closely.

    I play a destro/resto ranged magblade, and last night, I ran into a stamblade ganker, and I did what I had always done in the past: Mark them. I typically haven't had much difficulty dispatching gankblades.

    But I was in for a rude surprise when I found that my target can now cloak while still Marked because the reveal portion of Mark had been reduced to a pitiful 5s in Murkmire. All that the stamblade needs to do is dodge a couple of times, vigor, cloak, and he's reset the fight. I can't burst him down because I can't build and fire a bow proc in just 5s. So my question for the more seasoned PvPers out there: what could I be doing differently here?

    You kill em. They squichy.

    E
  • thankyourat
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    The most important thing to remember is don't waste all your resources trying to hit a stamblade that's constantly cloaking and dodging. Sometimes the best thing to do is simply spam light attacks and teleport away every time they start to apply pressure. Keep them snared as much as possible and hope you can land grim focus and the stamblade can't. If the stamblade is cloak spamming and you don't have any detect pots the best case might be for you to just cloak away and not waste your time. You also need to make sure you aren't on a build that's going to take 10k-12k damage from incap.
  • psychotic13
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    If you only have a problem with stamblades you could try the conspicuous poisons. Cant remember the exact effect, but its something like mark, just on a poison so you can keep bar space.
  • Jeezye
    Jeezye
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    If you run the revealing mark morph, it’s pretty effective to just spam it on them every 5 seconds as they will spend tons of resources to dodgeroll your attacks or attempt to cloak. Meanwhile, try to sneak in some dots (cripple, clench, ambush, entropy, Resto heavies) to pressure them during their rolls.

    At some point they will start to go offensive. If they gapclose, this is the perfect time window to cc then with clench or fear and start damaging them.

    Also I went away from using soul harvest in favor of soul assault/tether as its way more reliable.

    Skoria also works great against dodgerolling targets.
  • Dojohoda
    Dojohoda
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    Radiant Magelight is helpful because...

    "Reduces the cost and increases the radius of the reveal. You also prevent the stun and reduce the damage from stealth attacks while slotted."

    It's easier to fight if you are not laying on the ground.
    Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
    Might be joking in comments.
    -->(((Cyrodiil)))<--
  • Noctus
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    LordTareq wrote: »
    magblade88 wrote: »
    My number one stamblade killer is soulassult.
    Ideally you spot them first hevy attack, flame reach soulassult dead..

    Ideally :)
    I’ve noticed certain good ones can rally heal/vigor/potion + block to take minimal damage followed by ambush into incapacitating strike while you are vulnerable channeling. Still it usually works well enough.

    vigor is quite the pain especially on stamblades and dragonknights.
  • Nerftheforums
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    Detect pots. Pressure them, soul harvest them, fear, wait for them to break free, dodge, go into cloak and then shoot the bow. Don't light attack before the bow, it's easy for them to see the red ball coming at you and realizing they are in detection area. At that point they'll start dodging like chimps...ahem, I meant devs...
  • milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
    milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
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    Sometimes the best thing to do is simply spam light attacks and teleport away every time they start to apply pressure.
    This is where Torug's Pact is your bestest friend. :smiley:
  • KBKB
    KBKB
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    https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Stygian+Set
    https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/War+Maiden+Set
    https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Valkyn+Skoria+Set

    Full SD enchants
    Destro/Resto
    7/7 Light
    Breton for extra rss, Altmer/Dunmer for the SD its up to you
    Use detect pots
    I feel this is worth mentioning Impen isn't high priority if your game plan revolves around not getting hit which opens up infused/divines.

    Bar 1 Funnel, Concealed weapon, Cloak, Focus (gonna need to review on patch) Inner light Ulti; Soul Assault (This is how you beat stam NBs)
    Bar 2 Degen, Crippling grasp, Healing ward, Fear rune, Tele Shade Ulti; Meteor/Resto ulti

    Outast their cloak Dot them, soul assault them. If you need to chase pot/inner light > cloak > concealed stun > Soul assault.

    Light MNB should be playing cloak hard is an amazing skill and lets you reset the fight on a whim.
    Edited by KBKB on April 29, 2019 10:21PM
  • kaithuzar
    kaithuzar
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    Next patch -
    SPAMBUSH

    ~lol
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  • brtomkin
    brtomkin
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    ...
    Edited by brtomkin on April 30, 2019 11:32AM
    PS5 NA: Pickmans__Model, CP 2000+
  • Joosef_Kivikilpi
    Joosef_Kivikilpi
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    Minalan wrote: »
    Wait for the nerfs next patch.

    Then at least the stamblade will be standing in the same toilet water magblade is.

    Except Stamblade will perma Mark us Mageblades for and bow pew pew is down for their group. Going to be real fun as Mageblade /s
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