Shield Breaker Set

jaysins

Testing out the new shield breaker set it appears that it's not a straight 6% damage increase. With 260 more stam in my shield breaker loadout and the exact same weapon damage and buffs against a target dummy, I was hitting for just over 4% more damage with spriggans with a two handed mace equipped which is pretty significant. I know that 6% damage increase can come before or after cp, armor etc. and wanted to bring it to the developers attention to make sure that it is working as intended.

juhislihis19

This is what I was curious for. Just like swords are supposed to give a 3/6% damage bonus, but in reality it's just 2-3.

Fix this set to be flat 6% damage please!

labambao

I never use shieldbraker by myself in case of how op this set in sorcerers scenarios.
But how they nerfed it really hurt me.
What we have? Cloak & dodge roll nb have a aoe steel tornado counter. High resist folks have a bleed counter. And so on.
With change of the SB sorcs have no counter. They will just shield up and heal with bird.
IMO SB need other 5 bonus change. Like it may be few ways to change it:
1. Makes you ignore shields resists and critical resists.
2. Shielded target hitted with LA get heal absorbation for 2000 for 2 sec, 4 sec cd.
I know after this message come sorcs who would make noizes, but reality is the SB was the only hard counter for high res bird builds.

Apxac

labambao wrote: »

I never use shieldbraker by myself in case of how op this set in sorcerers scenarios.
But how they nerfed it really hurt me.
What we have? Cloak & dodge roll nb have a aoe steel tornado counter. High resist folks have a bleed counter. And so on.
With change of the SB sorcs have no counter. They will just shield up and heal with bird.
IMO SB need other 5 bonus change. Like it may be few ways to change it:
1. Makes you ignore shields resists and critical resists.
2. Shielded target hitted with LA get heal absorbation for 2000 for 2 sec, 4 sec cd.
I know after this message come sorcs who would make noizes, but reality is the SB was the only hard counter for high res bird builds.

The problem of pet-sorcerer is now relevant. This assembly is currently the strongest in the game, perhaps. Shields, powerful healing and massive pet-damage. This is impossible to resist well and the shield breaker was one of the ways, but its changes are really very bad. You offer a great solution to the problem and it would really help many players. Killing a good pet-sorcerer 1v1 is now almost impossible...

Chilly-McFreeze

Because 12% more dmg against shields is nothing, right?

jaysins

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Because 12% more dmg against shields is nothing, right?

My test above showed that it's not a true 6% or 12%, not even close, and that's what I'm trying to bring to light. With a name like shield breaker it should be imo the most powerful damage set to shields in the game but not by some significant game breaking amount and at the very least provide as much damage as a fully procced fury or nightmothers gaze set etc. and not fall behind them. If it was a true 12% straight damage it would accomplish this and I'd say the 6% should be toned down as it'd be out performing spriggans, which is a great dps set in it's own right, which would make one of the best overall damage sets in the game and by far the best against shields making it arguably the best damage pvp set in the game. Recommendations would to make it a true value and make it 3-4% increase in damage and 8-10% damage to shields. As the values are currently calculated I'd like to see that values increased to 8% and I haven't tested on shields yet but likely closer to the 16% to 20% to at least compete with the major fracture which is offered in night mother's gaze. If anyone wants to help me test the scaling on shields on PTS so I can get real data just shoot me a message as I'll be on tonight.

Chilly-McFreeze

jaysins wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Because 12% more dmg against shields is nothing, right?

My test above showed that it's not a true 6% or 12%, not even close, and that's what I'm trying to bring to light. With a name like shield breaker it should be imo the most powerful damage set to shields in the game but not by some significant game breaking amount and at the very least provide as much damage as a fully procced fury or nightmothers gaze set etc. and not fall behind them. If it was a true 12% straight damage it would accomplish this and I'd say the 6% should be toned down as it'd be out performing spriggans, which is a great dps set in it's own right, which would make one of the best overall damage sets in the game and by far the best against shields making it arguably the best damage pvp set in the game. Recommendations would to make it a true value and make it 3-4% increase in damage and 8-10% damage to shields. As the values are currently calculated I'd like to see that values increased to 8% and I haven't tested on shields yet but likely closer to the 16% to 20% to at least compete with the major fracture which is offered in night mother's gaze. If anyone wants to help me test the scaling on shields on PTS so I can get real data just shoot me a message as I'll be on tonight.

Have you factored in other percentual amplifiers?

Casul

Perhaps they could add a bonus that increases the cost of damage shield for X seconds when hit with a light attack? I do agree though the new bonus seems very lackluster.

Jeezye

Isn’t damage done calculated additively? That means, if you already have 1,5 multiplier, adding .12 will result in a 1.62 multiplier, thus giving you an 8% observable damage increase.

It’s the diminishing returns in stacking multipliers that you’re experiencing I guess, same reason why the minor berserk to minor vulnerability change for nightsblades is actually a single target dps buff

Chilly-McFreeze

Jeezye wrote: »

Isn’t damage done calculated additively? That means, if you already have 1,5 multiplier, adding .12 will result in a 1.62 multiplier, thus giving you an 8% observable damage increase.

It’s the diminishing returns in stacking multipliers that you’re experiencing I guess, same reason why the minor berserk to minor vulnerability change for nightsblades is actually a single target dps buff

That's what I thought, at least. But the "behind the scenes" in this game is too inconsistent for me to swear on it.

Gilvoth

- we need an alternative to shield stacking sorcerers. plain and simple.
this is a pvp set, in cryodiil that 6% is HALVED it only does 3%`

Gilvoth

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Because 12% more dmg against shields is nothing, right?

it is nothing, you are correct.
in cryodiil it does nothing to shield stacking sorc.
and everything is HALVED in cryodiil, so anything the tool tip says is allready way too low.
we need an alternative to shield stacking sorcerers.

Chilly-McFreeze

Gilvoth wrote: »

- we need an alternative to shield stacking sorcerers. plain and simple.
this is a pvp set, in cryodiil that 6% is HALVED it only does 3%`

Don't be silly now.

Gilvoth

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

- we need an alternative to shield stacking sorcerers. plain and simple.
this is a pvp set, in cryodiil that 6% is HALVED it only does 3%`

Don't be silly now.

i stated TRUTH and factual numbers and the reality of those numbers in cryodiil, hows that being silly?

olsborg

juhislihis19 wrote: »

This is what I was curious for. Just like swords are supposed to give a 3/6% damage bonus, but in reality it's just 2-3.

Fix this set to be flat 6% damage please!

This is why ppl are using either axe or maul over swords. Maybe it should be looked at.

Feanor

Gilvoth wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

- we need an alternative to shield stacking sorcerers. plain and simple.
this is a pvp set, in cryodiil that 6% is HALVED it only does 3%`

Don't be silly now.

i stated TRUTH and factual numbers and the reality of those numbers in cryodiil, hows that being silly?

Because you sound a lot like a certain Forum user who complained about NB archers getting nerfed all the time, asking for more sneak speed, and nerfs for Sorcs.

Of all the balance problems of 2019 PvP shield stacking certainly isn’t anywhere near the top. You just sound like you are on an agenda. My apologies if I should have mistaken you.

Galarthor

Feanor wrote: »

Of all the balance problems of 2019 PvP shield stacking certainly isn’t anywhere near the top. You just sound like you are on an agenda. My apologies if I should have mistaken you.

Ofc he is on an agenda, who wants to lose a set which enables you to kill the most skilled players of a class by simply spamming light attacks?

If shields were as OP has he claims, nobody would be able to kill a sorc without using the Shield Breaker set. The fact, that 99.9% of sorcs get killed without the help of that set shows that it is very well possible. His insinuating the opposite reveals his ineptitude and/or taste for cheese!

jaysins

Guys could we stay on topic? You're getting way off and any issues you'd like to address that don't directly deal with the shield breaker set should be taken to the appropriate post or you can create a new one to discuss whatever issues you think need to be addressed.

I need a magicka class to test out the 12% but I did test it out with bleeds on a target dummy and I believe (don't have my numbers in front of me so I may need to revise this statement) I saw a 2.5% ish increase in damage and since that ignores resistances that's a best case scenario. With resistances it is even worse and the scaling really makes the set pretty underwhelming despite sounding amazing on paper. With cp I'd imagine it may be even more underwhelming and if the scaling persists the 12% but be very ineffective. Again, any volunteers to test I have a toon with spriggans and shield breaker with enchants to even out the stam difference already setup on PTS.

pieratsos

Gilvoth wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

- we need an alternative to shield stacking sorcerers. plain and simple.
this is a pvp set, in cryodiil that 6% is HALVED it only does 3%`

Don't be silly now.

i stated TRUTH and factual numbers and the reality of those numbers in cryodiil, hows that being silly?

Because thats not how it works?

Gilvoth

pieratsos wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

- we need an alternative to shield stacking sorcerers. plain and simple.
this is a pvp set, in cryodiil that 6% is HALVED it only does 3%`

Don't be silly now.

i stated TRUTH and factual numbers and the reality of those numbers in cryodiil, hows that being silly?

Because thats not how it works?

it is infact how it Does work in cryodiil.
when in cryodiil (pvp zone) all of our damage is cut in half, and it tells us that in the "Battle Spirit note"

There is no way to turn off Battle Spirit. This buff applies to everyone that participates in AvA. It gives the following boons: Increase Health by 5000. Reduce damage taken by 50%.

ZOS_Ragnar

We have removed a few comments that were not adding to the discussion.

Emma_Overload

The reason this is happening is probably for the same reason set bonus percentages never work out properly: the extra damage is being calculated additively with other damage boosts instead of multiplicatively.

ZOS has been screwing us like this forever, and they rarely ever fix it. I've been waiting since 2014 for Willow's Path to boost my regen by 15% instead of 8.5%! Shield Breaker should be like the 967th set to be fixed on the list of busted sets.

jaysins

Thanks @ZOS_RyanM . It's much easier to read through the thread now.

It's definitely inconsistent how things scale and the only way to know for sure is to test out multiple different scenarios, which is fine on PTS but can get really expensive on live for us PvPers especially. A better descriptions of the types of scaling so we could know if they're performing as intended would be helpful. Maybe tell us if it's additive/multiplicative in the tooltip description as it does make a big difference.

Sureshawt

Was wondering when they were going to make this set totally useless....Just wow

pieratsos

Gilvoth wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

- we need an alternative to shield stacking sorcerers. plain and simple.
this is a pvp set, in cryodiil that 6% is HALVED it only does 3%`

Don't be silly now.

i stated TRUTH and factual numbers and the reality of those numbers in cryodiil, hows that being silly?

Because thats not how it works?

it is infact how it Does work in cryodiil.
when in cryodiil (pvp zone) all of our damage is cut in half, and it tells us that in the "Battle Spirit note"

There is no way to turn off Battle Spirit. This buff applies to everyone that participates in AvA. It gives the following boons: Increase Health by 5000. Reduce damage taken by 50%.

No its not. Your dmg is cut in half. Not ur dmg multipliers.

Lord_Eomer

@ZOS_BrianWheeler so keep nerfing set and give them worst changes?

Zelos

The set still doesnt (break shields) and never has. Why cant it just be like, "Hitting a target with a fully charged heavy attack negate and drops all shields, and increases the cost of their next shield by 33%. Can occur every 8 seconds"
@ZOS_BrianWheeler I dont want free damage, like oblivion damage and I dont want a damage bonus. I want to break 20k+ shields and do damage to their actual health and not have to spend 20 minutes in 1 fight.

Rikumaru

Zelos wrote: »

The set still doesnt (break shields) and never has. Why cant it just be like, "Hitting a target with a fully charged heavy attack negate and drops all shields, and increases the cost of their next shield by 33%. Can occur every 8 seconds"
@ZOS_BrianWheeler I dont want free damage, like oblivion damage and I dont want a damage bonus. I want to break 20k+ shields and do damage to their actual health and not have to spend 20 minutes in 1 fight.

Because that would be overpowered, dumb and would completely kill magicka sorc for open world, not to mention any other light armor build. You should try using your abilities to breaking someone's shields, I heard it's pretty effective.

Zelos

Rikumaru wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

The set still doesnt (break shields) and never has. Why cant it just be like, "Hitting a target with a fully charged heavy attack negate and drops all shields, and increases the cost of their next shield by 33%. Can occur every 8 seconds"
@ZOS_BrianWheeler I dont want free damage, like oblivion damage and I dont want a damage bonus. I want to break 20k+ shields and do damage to their actual health and not have to spend 20 minutes in 1 fight.

Because that would be overpowered, dumb and would completely kill magicka sorc for open world, not to mention any other light armor build. You should try using your abilities to breaking someone's shields, I heard it's pretty effective.

I have:) but guess what they can push 2 buttons and get another effective 20k health. Oh I get them back down to 2k shields, 1 button later back to 14k effective health. I heard its pretty effective to think critically:) a 1 second window to deal damage every 8 seconds is not overpowered not to mention you would have to get over to them anyway.

juhislihis19

IMO 6% damage should be 6% damage and 12% damage on shields should be 12% if stated. Nothing less.

If this would apply with swords as well, maybe someone in their right mind would actually pick swords ahead of maces, daggers or axes.

jaysins

juhislihis19 wrote: »

IMO 6% damage should be 6% damage and 12% damage on shields should be 12% if stated. Nothing less.

If this would apply with swords as well, maybe someone in their right mind would actually pick swords ahead of maces, daggers or axes.

The scaling is really wonky. I'd say 6% and 12% would be really high though as that would make the 5 piece do more damage than spriggans against non-shielded targets and way more damage against shielded and also have the benefit of affecting bleeds. Maybe 5% and 12% or 4% and 10%. 12% would be like having almost 8k penetration and would definitely make the set live up to its name. 10% would make it still ahead of major fracture which I think the set should be if it's going to do the most damage to shields in the game. Hardened wards scaling was off so with it now *hopefully fixed, this set would be very strong against shielded targets.