Solving the Class Stacking in PvE (Poll)

Luckylancer

Case 3: Class Stacking

No need to broke many thing while fixing a problem that destined to come back. Keep classes' dps similar and people can choose.

And guys stamsorcs have 4 class trees(s&b, 2h,dw and bow), 1 more than other classes. Thats what I call identity! Quit complaining

tinythinker

Other (Provide another case)

Runefang wrote: »

There was a good interview the Overwatch game director on balance once and he said one of the biggest problems with balancing was dealing with people's perception. He said they'd nerf or buff things just to change perception, despite the reality.

This perception of balance is generally developed by players who are setting the 'meta'. The majority then follow the meta without challenging it or considering what works for those meta players won't always work best for them. This creates the illusion of a balance 'gulf' rather than a small gap. This perception will change over time, but only slowly as some players attempt to challenge it.

Yupe

twing1_

Other (Provide another case)

First, I do believe in class diversity through restricted group utility. Ex/ engulfing flames for dk, minor breach/fracture for templar, etc.

But this encourages having only one of each class, and then stacking the highest damage class in the rest of the raid spots.

To avoid this, there should be score penalties for having more than 3x of a particular class. So if a group has 4 nightblades, they would be penalized at the end of the raid by some amount of score points.

The penalty would increase for each additional repeat class beyond the limit of 3. So a team with 5 templar would be penalized more than a team with 4, and a team with 3 wouldn't be penalized at all.

This would only affect score pushers, and it would allow casual players (who don't care for score) to still rely on class stacking as a crutch for completing difficult content.

rafaelcsmaia

Luckylancer wrote: »

And guys stamsorcs have 4 class trees(s&b, 2h,dw and bow), 1 more than other classes. Thats what I call identity! Quit complaining

Not sure if trolling or sarcasm, i hope its the latter

Dragneel1207

Other (Provide another case)

I suggest adding more utility but not restricting. I mean that a class can provide that buff/debuff and add some passives that gives specific buffs during certain situations. Like u get more dmg with more adds to one class and single more dmg to one class and some classes can give buffs to their resource pools and give pack buffs etc..

Faulgor

Case 2: Diversity throug restricted Group Utility

I think they were on the right track when they restructured the minor buffs that certain class trees provide. The problem remains that these can be provided by support roles (e.g. minor brutality by DK tanks) not just as well, but often even better. For some classes, there's also the issue that stamina or magicka builds don't use the skill that provide said minor buff (e.g. stam sorc doesn't use Dark Magic skills).

They will have to restructure and add buffs for every class, role and stam/mag combination. Which is not simple, but the current situation could certainly be improved in that direction.

There's also the indication that classes could provide unique buffs outside the minor/major systems, such as the new 5% penetration for NBs Surprise Attack. That could be an avenue for currently underrepresented classes as well - I'm thinking like sorcerers Bound Armaments providing +10% weapon enchantment power to your group, etc.

MLGProPlayer

Case 2: Diversity throug restricted Group Utility

Luckylancer wrote: »

No need to broke many thing while fixing a problem that destined to come back. Keep classes' dps similar and people can choose.

And guys stamsorcs have 4 class trees(s&b, 2h,dw and bow), 1 more than other classes. Thats what I call identity! Quit complaining

The game has been out 5 years now and they have never managed to keep DPS between classes close.

There is also no need to ever use the second best DPS class, let alone the worst, in the game's current state. You are always objectively better off stacking the top DPS class.

OP's suggestion would force teams to pursue greater diversity in team comps, which is sorely needed in this game.

ExpatJohnny

Case 2: Diversity throug restricted Group Utility

I definitely agree with the school of thought that each class should be able to perform within close dps of each other to maximize individuality in 12 man content.

I also believe that some classes, such as sorc should have stamina, and magicka morphs available, similar to how wardens, necros, etc are being spec'd. This would also make it easier to balance classes, because currently if you buff a weapon line, now you further buff a class using class and weapon skills heavily, and keep the divide, and class stacking mentality persists.

Jaimeh

Two things are driving class and role diversity away:

a) PvE content: for example, trials and DLC dungeons that are not melee-playstyle friendly (like AS, CR, the new Wrathstone dungeons, etc.), or mechanics that favour a 'burn as fast as possible' approach over a pacing approach, because if mistakes happen, they result in one-shots anyway. ZOS' idea to make healers needed resulted in instances like FV HM with huge debuffs on tanks, so that the healer has to almost solo-focus on them, or BRP, whose 4th round is literally all the damage mechanics from the previous rounds stacked together. It's too much to deal with, so of course everyone wants shorter fights, and thus wants the class specs with the highest DPS. One way to deal with this would be to create smarter mechanics, and of course deal with the power creep that CP and gear sets have brought about. For instance, high damage doesn't mean much if people don't have environmental awareness and coordination in the twins fight in vMOL. Having more of this kind of fights would be good, because not needing super high damage, just smarter play, means people can bring whichever class they prefer to use. And to tie this to the OP, if we had mechanics like that, instead of too many dps- checks, it wouldn't matter if someone brought class 1 or 2 or 3, because they would require certain actions performed, rather than just pushing the boss' health as fast as possible.

b) PvP and PvE being in tandem: it's ruining class diversity because certain skills from certain classes are deemed too problematic for PvP, and are therefore altered (for eg., crystal fragments losing their stun, wings losing their reflect, etc.) thereby chipping something away from the identity of these classes. I've long been thinking that we are approaching a time where all skills will do essentially the same thing just with different animations and names, and that will be no fun at all. If there was a way to separate PvP and PvE, say battle spirit removing some effects of certain skills, then classes in PvE at least could retain their uniqueness, without some skills being too OP over others for PvP.

To me it's clear that you can't have your cake an eat it when it comes to the play-as-you-like mentality and having distinct class identities, and I think the challenge of playing a class spec not designated for a role is part of the fun of it; if I play a DK healer, and my skills are altered along the way such that they are essentially just like templars' skills, then I might as well play a templar. One way to go around this is to give us utilities in skill trees other than class, so that way a class can retain its unique feel, but also have access to a function that might be needed to perform a certain role (like for eg. the 'purge' skill from Support). Another way is to of course balance the class skills so that even though their skills are distinct, the classes are not significantly different in terms or power output, but that again brings us to point b above, which is not being dealt with any time soon.