I want melee magic weapon skills. AKA Conjuration

LuxLunae

Yeah....uhh any ideas? .

I mean the baseline would be just to copy 2 hander, bow and DW skills for magic use and have it all stack on magicka and/or spell damage.

However that's too boring. The conjuration weapons should look like DW, 2 hander and bow...but I want it to look somewhat different and some moves do something else.

Staffs for magicka is just dumb...its time to change that. TBH it's the only thing that keeps me away from magicka builds. For example ...TEMPLAR

cresent sweep and jabs are all close range....I can't really do much when I am at range with those skills and if you haven't noticed....

Now we will probably have to use a "medium" to funnel in the conjuration...that's just bs to say why you must equipt weapon hilts...like a light sabre. We then lvl up and smith up those to make the conjuration stronger...

So yes that means more items in the game making inventory a nightmare...However now thinking about it we need to be able to transform it with transmute stones... so if we already have the weapons and want to change them to conjured weapons.... we just go transmute it or something...

Yeah I am going to refine this idea some time later..

Just think about this for a second....

DW hulking dragur weapons that stack to magicka and spell damage....

The daggers will give you spell crit, you get your spell damage but you have the stam pool to roll around and break free. Now you may be able to use power of the light or something like that as well. True hybrid.

Of course cancer will ensue... but.. still its a step forward.

THROW MORE IDEAS HERE. LETS REFINE THIS IDEA.

Vizikul

The bound weapons from TES V: Skyrim would do perfectly. The bound sword was my personal favorite. The idea of a weapon that appears when you need it and vanishes when you don't is just brilliant.

LordTareq

Just a mage guild/psijic order passive that changes the melee/bow weapons to use magicka stat scaling would be enough for me.
Really a shame this hasn’t been done yet after so many years of people asking for it, and now I’m stuck with 500 damage light attacks on my magblade.

BNOC

LuxLunae wrote: »

Yeah....uhh any ideas? .

Staffs for magicka is just dumb...its time to change that. TBH it's the only thing that keeps me away from magicka builds. For example ...TEMPLAR

cresent sweep and jabs are all close range....I can't really do much when I am at range with those skills and if you haven't noticed....

You can play with DW or a 2H on a Templar, (DW) has always been the case.

Templars have Toppling charge (Which you can use with whatever weapon you want) then you're in range for melee ranged abilities.

Whilst at range, you can throw vampires bane, dark flare, javelin and more so I'm not really following the struggle; let's work on getting things working as they are before we start trying all this.

LordTareq

BNOC wrote: »

LuxLunae wrote: »

Yeah....uhh any ideas? .

Staffs for magicka is just dumb...its time to change that. TBH it's the only thing that keeps me away from magicka builds. For example ...TEMPLAR

cresent sweep and jabs are all close range....I can't really do much when I am at range with those skills and if you haven't noticed....

You can play with DW or a 2H on a Templar, (DW) has always been the case.

Templars have Toppling charge (Which you can use with whatever weapon you want) then you're in range for melee ranged abilities.

Whilst at range, you can throw vampires bane, dark flare, javelin and more so I'm not really following the struggle; let's work on getting things working as they are before we start trying all this.

Trouble isn't with the skills, its with the light/heavy attacks. On a magicka character using magicka melee skills, using a staff counter-intuitively gives much more damage than melee weapons as staff light/heavy attacks scale of magicka.
Using a melee weapon like sword, light/heavy attacks scale of stamina and will barely do any damage for magicka characters + heavy attacks will restore the wrong stat (stamina).

Deathlord92

Personally I’d love for melee weapons to scale of magic and stamina my melee magblade would love this

LuxLunae

LordTareq wrote: »

Just a mage guild/psijic order passive that changes the melee/bow weapons to use magicka stat scaling would be enough for me.
Really a shame this hasn’t been done yet after so many years of people asking for it, and now I’m stuck with 500 damage light attacks on my magblade.

I like this idea. (mage guild no paywall) However, I did want conjuration to put a different spin on the skills like for example... instead of raining down bows, it rains down (something) and does (something) damage. I want it to have a different look so people know its magicka based lol. Otherwise some people will walk up to a magicka user and get wrecked quick.

and NO the magica MELEE attacks should NOT BE ABSORBED by absorb magicka or something...

I mean there are like 4 weapons trees that have stamina only. Two that have magicka.

akredon_ESO

yeah i love a melee magicka skill line *sigh* one can only dream

IronWooshu

Conjuration Skill Line should work as you conjure the weapon as a third bar which uses the skill line from the weapon tree, however once you switch bars the bound weapon is unsummoned (this is the trade off). The magicka weapon uses the passives from the weapon skill tree so for instance if you are using conjure dual wield you would use the passives for dual wield and spec into the morph you want to add to your third bar.

This would make conjuration build spec heavy as you would have to invest more points into stamina passives in order to make the conjuration skill work, this is another trade off magicka users would have.

For Stamina users, the same logic should apply however they summon the staff of their choice, imagine playing as a DW/2H nightblade where u can switch to a 3rd bar resto staff that was conjured and heal yourself or a mage that wants to secure the kill so u conjure dual wield and spin to win the enemy down.

There has to be another trade off to this tho so people cant abuse the 3rd bar for quick heals while mainting maximum damage and that would be a cast time when switching the the conjured abilities. This would allow for counterplay against with interupts and stop massively overpowered builds that can heal upon heal while damage output stays the same.

Iskiab

I think a new weapon skill line is the way to go. Adding a third weapon skill bar could be problematic.

Have some pen like desruction staves and gtg. Abilities would be like stamina weapon skill lines: a ST spammable, bleed, aoe, utility/heal. It would be fun.

cbritomiranda

agree. magic chars just need more versatility than destro/restro.
maybe something related to illusion magic or alteration magic

cbritomiranda

agree. magic chars just need more versatility than destro/restro.
maybe something related to illusion magic or alteration magic

edit. Sorry for the double post

Red_Feather

Yes please. I don't play magicka anymore because I could not stand using wall of elements and force shock anymore.
And now as stamina player I am getting sick of Reverse Slash from 2 hander, but at least stamina has many weapons.

Bradyfjord

We already have bound armor in the Sorceror skills. I'd argue that other abilities 'conjure' weapons when they are used, such as Teleport Strike, Silver Bolts, Fiery Chains, and so on. So, everyone is using Conjuration in a sense.

LuxLunae

Red_Feather wrote: »

Yes please. I don't play magicka anymore because I could not stand using wall of elements and force shock anymore.
And now as stamina player I am getting sick of Reverse Slash from 2 hander, but at least stamina has many weapons.

Exactly lol magica keeps getting pooped on by zos... There is ZERO reason to be magica...we need something like this bring balance.

tunepunk

A 5 piece set bonus would be enough for me that converts damage.

Bound weaponry set.

2. Spell Crit
3. Spell Damage
4. Spell crit
5. Spell damage + All your physical stamina based abilities uses magicka, and deals Magic damage instead.

They would also use spell crit, instead of weapon crit, and use spell penetration ofc.
Skills with a Bleed component could be converted to oblivion damage as it also ingores armor.

It would not convert skills where the damage is poison or disease based. Only pure physical skills.

Equipping set would also make your equipped weapons glow.

mague

I want to go to a mage guild NPC and transform any weapon into either a mag or stam scroll to equip while those scolls have no visible appearance. Could be paid with transmute crystals.

Visually its unarmed combat and in numbers it will be a mag or stam one or two hand weapon/staff/what else.

LuxLunae

tunepunk wrote: »

A 5 piece set bonus would be enough for me that converts damage.

Bound weaponry set.

2. Spell Crit
3. Spell Damage
4. Spell crit
5. Spell damage + All your physical stamina based abilities uses magicka, and deals Magic damage instead.

They would also use spell crit, instead of weapon crit, and use spell penetration ofc.
Skills with a Bleed component could be converted to oblivion damage as it also ingores armor.

It would not convert skills where the damage is poison or disease based. Only pure physical skills.

Equipping set would also make your equipped weapons glow.

That's a great idea IMO except for the bleeds to oblivion damage. Bleed damage is a DOT that can be purged off oblivion damage usually is not.

Iskiab

Agreed. I still want to be a magblade and use daggers, and I likely will always want to. It’d be nice if there was a way to make it work.

Thraben

Honestly, none of the the DEVs appear to know of this playstyle, although many of us have been playing like that for 20 years now in Elder Scrolls games.

Deathlord92

tunepunk wrote: »

A 5 piece set bonus would be enough for me that converts damage.

Bound weaponry set.

2. Spell Crit
3. Spell Damage
4. Spell crit
5. Spell damage + All your physical stamina based abilities uses magicka, and deals Magic damage instead.

They would also use spell crit, instead of weapon crit, and use spell penetration ofc.
Skills with a Bleed component could be converted to oblivion damage as it also ingores armor.

It would not convert skills where the damage is poison or disease based. Only pure physical skills.

Equipping set would also make your equipped weapons glow.

I actually really like this idea I main a Breton stamblade because I favour Bretons and melee assassin if they did something like this magblade would be a lot of fun for me now if they would just listen to us and give magblade a good self heal please devs 🙏😭🙏

Vajrak

So, we all want this to some degree, the question is what would be fair and balanced to introduce it into the game, without allowing it to override every skill, JUST weapons.

There are a few potential solutions for this, and while I'm sure each idea I'm presenting has some flaws/room for improvement, all should be possible, feasible, and not extremely cost-prohibitive for ZOS to implement.

So, let's first outline what we want:
A way to convert weapon attacks and skills for equal efficiency on Magicka builds, WITHOUT having that capability locked behind a pay-wall (Expansions/Chapters/Crown Store).

A unique visual/secondary effect on weaponry converted to Magicka, without it being extremely intrusive to play.

For Weapon Passives to apply (as normal).

There are 2 places where I see this can work well, and satisfy the desires.
1) Soul Magic
Soul Strikes (replaces Soul Lock)
Rank 1
You imbue your weapons with a part of your soul, causing all non-elemental attacks to deal Magic damage, and scale with Spell Damage and Max Magicka.

Rank 2
You further attune your soul to your strikes; Heavy Attacks made with weapons now restore Magicka, and weapon skills convert their cost to Magicka. The following effects change; Bleed converts to Burning, Poison converts to Concussion.

Visual Effect: Use the glow effect of Soul Assault or Soul Trap, and have it surround the weapon (Similar to the effect of enchants on the weapon, but slightly brighter).

2) Mages Guild - Rank 10
Might of the Guild Passive Rank 1
WHILE A MAGES GUILD SKILL IS SLOTTED all non-elemental attacks deal Magic damage, and scale with Spell Damage and Max Magicka.

Might of the Guild Passive Rank 2
WHILE A MAGES GUILD SKILL IS SLOTTED additionally, Heavy Attacks made with weapons now restore Magicka, and weapon skills convert their cost to Magicka. The following effects change; Bleed converts to Burning, Poison converts to Concussion.

Visual Effect: Same as above, the glow effect, but with a more blue hue/tone, as expected of the Mages Guild line, OR surrounding the weapons AND arms in a glow effect (Similar to the visual of minor berserk effect, but again in the appropriate hue/tone).

This solution would allow the use of weapon skill lines for Magicka builds, remain balanced on the overall lower cost of Stamina skills (for the risk/reward of range requirements), replace under-performing/unused passive effects (or in the case of Soul Lock, ones which no longer serve a purpose as Soul Gems are generally filled on drop now), NOT be locked behind a paywall, but still require a bit of effort to unlock --- either progressing through the story, or maxing out Mage Guild ranks.

The only other aspect that would need to be changed is that Twin Blade and Blunt passive would have to have daggers changed to general critical rating instead of just weapon critical.

Iskiab

I suggested before that maybe slotting the magblade ultimate in the assassination like would be a good place. Something like: while slotted your weapon damage becomes the higher of weapon or spell power and stamina or magicka.

Are other classes interested in this? Otherwise maybe the mage guild or psijiic would have been a good spot.

Thraben

Iskiab wrote: »

I suggested before that maybe slotting the magblade ultimate in the assassination like would be a good place. Something like: while slotted your weapon damage becomes the higher of weapon or spell power and stamina or magicka.

Are other classes interested in this? Otherwise maybe the mage guild or psijiic would have been a good spot.

Actually Magblades HAVE conjured weapon skills, and some of them. They have a conjured bow, and multiple conjured dagger skills.

The greatest need here is where the skill comes from: Sorcerers (especially StamSorcs whose playstyle in other ES games is defined by: Conjure some armor, weapons, and meatshield daedra, then hit the mobs with them). Magblades in other ES games typically use physical weapons and illusion magic.

I wouldn`t mind sharing, though. But how likely is a new full weapon line? Unarmed, Poleweapons, and Staff/ one handed are definitely more popular.

Iskiab

Yea, for a new weapon line one handed and orb makes the most sense.

For magicka there’s resto plus destro staves, where destro staves were designed to be like 3 separate weapon lines depending on the element, but it doesn’t really feel like a different weapon.

Maybe when they do a pass on destruction staves that will change, IDK. My main issue as a magblade is aesthetics, I like the look of bows and daggers... even if that’s a silly thing to ask for as a magblade. I’d love to have daggers on one bar and a destro staff on the other.

Vajrak

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, for a new weapon line one handed and orb makes the most sense.

For magicka there’s resto plus destro staves, where destro staves were designed to be like 3 separate weapon lines depending on the element, but it doesn’t really feel like a different weapon.

Maybe when they do a pass on destruction staves that will change, IDK. My main issue as a magblade is aesthetics, I like the look of bows and daggers... even if that’s a silly thing to ask for as a magblade. I’d love to have daggers on one bar and a destro staff on the other.

But this you can do, to some extent...Dual Wield front-bar swords, and just change the visual to daggers. The higher damage and 6% boost should keep your DPS fine, and your resource management is on your backbar.

Iskiab

Vajrak wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, for a new weapon line one handed and orb makes the most sense.

For magicka there’s resto plus destro staves, where destro staves were designed to be like 3 separate weapon lines depending on the element, but it doesn’t really feel like a different weapon.

Maybe when they do a pass on destruction staves that will change, IDK. My main issue as a magblade is aesthetics, I like the look of bows and daggers... even if that’s a silly thing to ask for as a magblade. I’d love to have daggers on one bar and a destro staff on the other.

But this you can do, to some extent...Dual Wield front-bar swords, and just change the visual to daggers. The higher damage and 6% boost should keep your DPS fine, and your resource management is on your backbar.

It still ends up being a large dps hit. All melee weapons scale with your stamina pool and weapon power. That plus there are two different CP spots for melee weapons and staves.

Vajrak

Iskiab wrote: »

Vajrak wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, for a new weapon line one handed and orb makes the most sense.

For magicka there’s resto plus destro staves, where destro staves were designed to be like 3 separate weapon lines depending on the element, but it doesn’t really feel like a different weapon.

Maybe when they do a pass on destruction staves that will change, IDK. My main issue as a magblade is aesthetics, I like the look of bows and daggers... even if that’s a silly thing to ask for as a magblade. I’d love to have daggers on one bar and a destro staff on the other.

But this you can do, to some extent...Dual Wield front-bar swords, and just change the visual to daggers. The higher damage and 6% boost should keep your DPS fine, and your resource management is on your backbar.

It still ends up being a large dps hit. All melee weapons scale with your stamina pool and weapon power. That plus there are two different CP spots for melee weapons and staves.

It's really not a large DPS hit, just requires mixing your skills appropriately. I haven't done this with a Nightblade to the same exttent, so can't give the exact iteration at high CP, but on a Templar (my main class for all things) Dual Wield Swords has allowed me to keep my Execute beam and Sweeps higher overall output than having to pick which one to optimize with a staff. The light attack damage is not optimized by any means, but that also means instead of putting points into melee/staff damage directly, I was able to shift those points for CP into Direct-Damage % and Crit Damage %, which makes up the difference of losing a bit of light attack easily.

As a magblade, while I was playing one, it let me use dual precise swords, invest a bit more into mag penetration to make up for the loss of nirnhoned/sharpened combo, and maintain a very high crit rate with a huge crit damage bonus and keeping the preferred aesthetic.

This really is an issue of the mentality of the player/community, not the mechanics of the game --- if you are banging out for 50k+, then you are going to be pigeonholed into a specific build --- but there is no content in the game that requires above 25k DPS, and mixing your build for DW on Magicka can comfortably get you to 35k+.

With all of that said, something that they could also offer which would perhaps require the least amount of work:
Allow us to weapon skin ANY weapon (and it's animations) instead of just reskinning what is equipped. Then you could equip whatever weapon is the optimized choice, but maintain the aesthetic animation that you want. DW throwing fire balls at the end of the swing, 2h/DW able to use a staff for the various skills --- the most reprogramming adjustment would likely be in the staff to dw skill line to make the animations fit properly, but as said, I imagine a new set of animations alone without changing the effect would be less work that creating a whole new skill line or passives and such, and would satisfy what people are asking for -- the ability to use staffs for weapon skill lines and weapons for magicka skill lines. 2h wouldn't need much work for that --- it'd be just a skin swap and maintain the windup for heavy attacks, DW with rending and spin is where most of the work would need to be done. Then you could have your magblade with fireball throwing daggers (aesthetically, but mechanically you'd still be using a staff).

RavenSworn

I honestly feel that a new weapon line is the way to go, aside from refurbishing some of the lesser used skill lines like Soul Magic or perhaps changing some of the Mages skill line.

A bound weapon skill line sounds awesome.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

I'd play magicka if we had options that weren't staves.

But I hate staves. They look dumb.

I chose Stamblade literally just so I could have a pair of daggers and a bow.

Iskiab

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

I'd play magicka if we had options that weren't staves.

But I hate staves. They look dumb.

I chose Stamblade literally just so I could have a pair of daggers and a bow.

I almost switched my magblade to stamblade for the same reason, but I stuck with magblade because I like healing.