Templar nerfs were huge on this patch

Joy_Division

Rygonix wrote: »

Stibbons wrote: »

What a waste of time.

The same thing was said when BoL lost its third heal and again when its secondary heal was cut by 33% during Summerset pts for..reasons. Yet you still see us sticking around.

Though if they were to lay a finger on our Purify synergy we might have issues. It is one of the only abilities that we have that completely trumps Warden healers.

I've left the BoL train years ago and hopped aboard the S.S. Honor the Dead ship.

Also it's not Warden healers you need to worry about. You might want to hop onto the PTS and see what Necros can do.

dazee wrote: »

I read the notes didnt see any templar nerfs only a couple buffs.

Perhaps reading them again?

Gina Bruno wrote:

• Eclipse:
  This ability and its morphs will no longer proc off Direct Damage attacks such as Spiked Armor or Thews of the Harbinger’s damage return. Nerf. Arguably needed because of game mechanics, but nerf nevertheless
• Updated the tooltip on these abilities to properly indicate their internal cooldown, which have always been there. - making public a previous nerf from another patch
• Reduced the damage dealt by the thorn mechanic (damage return) of this ability and its morphs by 25%. Note this only pertains to the damage; the heal of Total Dark and explosion of Unstable Core remain untouched. Nerf. Huge nerf, in fact
• Solar Flare:
• Reduced the cast time from this ability and the Dark Flare morph to 1 second from 1.1 seconds. That is a 9% speed increase. But ...
• Reduced the damage by approximately 37% to make up for the fact that it can be cast more frequently. That's a nerf.
• Sun Fire: Adjusted this ability and its morphs to follow our standardized Damage Over Time ruleset. Total duration has been increased to 8 seconds from 6.25 seconds, and increased the damage per tick by approximately 31% to make up for the loss of the first tick. This will result in roughly the same overall DPS, but with less burst damage. That's a nerf. More damage sooner is always better.
• Breath of Life: Fixed an issue where the secondary heal granted from this ability was able to ignore the caster’s line of sight and target players behind them. Nerf. Bug-fix, but still a nerf

Iskiab

BreakingBats wrote: »

The Dark Flare nerf will hurt but as long as it has that aoe major defile then it's staying on my bar.

Agreed. I think I’m going to dust off my Templar for pvp. The changes look good to me, but try mainly ranged and no S&B, destro/resto instead built for speed.

Eclipse was nerfed for sure, but it probably was overturned. For those who say people could break free... yea, that’s sorta good too isn’t it? You’re attacking someone’s stamina pool. I only play non-CP so attacking stamina is effective. People who block a lot tend to not die until their stamina’s gone or are cc’d in a way that can’t be blocked.

Synozeer

Iskiab wrote: »

BreakingBats wrote: »

The Dark Flare nerf will hurt but as long as it has that aoe major defile then it's staying on my bar.

Agreed. I think I’m going to dust off my Templar for pvp. The changes look good to me, but try mainly ranged and no S&B, destro/resto instead built for speed.

The speed changes to Dark Flare didn't feel much if any faster on the PTS and the damage nerf is huge. No more gankplars, and I still don't see this skill being use for anything other than xv1ing in PvP.

Brrrofski

Tasear wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Gonna miss empowering sweep on my stamplar for sure. Nice to hit people with it under pressure for the protection and they don't really realise they're taking damage.

Gonna have to block cancel remeberance instead I guess.

How is the heal from purifying ritual on a stamplar - anyone tested? It's currently 600 on live for me...

Actually stamina templar got a buff with

This ability and its morphs will now grant healing and/or damage based on the users' highest offensive stats, rather than just Max Magicka and Spell Damage.

That's what I mean, so how much is it on PTS. On live it's only 600 for me, so hoping the new scaling makes it semi decent.

HankTwo

Ranged capabilities of magplar got nerfed, while melee capabilities got buffed. I think the changes are overall rather good than bad, but some of them feel unnecessary (total dark damage nerf in particular).

Iskiab

Synozeer wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

BreakingBats wrote: »

The Dark Flare nerf will hurt but as long as it has that aoe major defile then it's staying on my bar.

Agreed. I think I’m going to dust off my Templar for pvp. The changes look good to me, but try mainly ranged and no S&B, destro/resto instead built for speed.

The speed changes to Dark Flare didn't feel much if any faster on the PTS and the damage nerf is huge. No more gankplars, and I still don't see this skill being use for anything other than xv1ing in PvP.

Oh you misunderstood me. By speed I mean using the steed mundus and 2x swift jewellery traits and 1x protective. High mobility Templar.

I think necros have a fear don’t they? Try kiting people and forget about block casting. Still have melee capability but soften them up with dots to deplete people’s magicka/stamina pools. Most pvpers have crap recovery and depend on burst to kill quickly, or being really tanky so easily kiteable - they’ll have to keep blocking or chase.

Neoauspex

I consider the buff to Sun Shield a nerf since it's pretty much a big middle finger to Templars

Sanguinor2

Iskiab wrote: »

BreakingBats wrote: »

The Dark Flare nerf will hurt but as long as it has that aoe major defile then it's staying on my bar.

Eclipse was nerfed for sure, but it probably was overturned. For those who say people could break free... yea, that’s sorta good too isn’t it? You’re attacking someone’s stamina pool. I only play non-CP so attacking stamina is effective. People who block a lot tend to not die until their stamina’s gone or are cc’d in a way that can’t be blocked.

Eclipse wasnt overtuned at all, it Counts as hard cc towards cc immunity and stuff but it actually doesnt hard cc the target, so it was simply a gamble if your target knew that Breaking it might be benificial if you intended to attack (or were a dk) or didnt break it and either kept attacking, then it was strong, or just kited in which case you got cc immunity after letting it run out and it did very Little to you.
I really dont understand how People consider eclipse/total dark to be overperforming outside of its (Buggy) interactions with dk defensive abilities, it had very clear cut counter Play and you did not loose anything for Breaking it because you get the cc immunity just like after Breaking free of a stun.
In fact against a Player that knows what eclipse/total dark does its the most worthless harddc ability in the game since it does not even cc to open a burst window or something similar.

itscompton

Joy_Division wrote: »

Rygonix wrote: »

Stibbons wrote: »

What a waste of time.

The same thing was said when BoL lost its third heal and again when its secondary heal was cut by 33% during Summerset pts for..reasons. Yet you still see us sticking around.

Though if they were to lay a finger on our Purify synergy we might have issues. It is one of the only abilities that we have that completely trumps Warden healers.

I've left the BoL train years ago and hopped aboard the S.S. Honor the Dead ship.

Also it's not Warden healers you need to worry about. You might want to hop onto the PTS and see what Necros can do.

dazee wrote: »

I read the notes didnt see any templar nerfs only a couple buffs.

Perhaps reading them again?

Gina Bruno wrote:

• Eclipse:
  This ability and its morphs will no longer proc off Direct Damage attacks such as Spiked Armor or Thews of the Harbinger’s damage return. Nerf. Arguably needed because of game mechanics, but nerf nevertheless
• Updated the tooltip on these abilities to properly indicate their internal cooldown, which have always been there. - making public a previous nerf from another patch
• Reduced the damage dealt by the thorn mechanic (damage return) of this ability and its morphs by 25%. Note this only pertains to the damage; the heal of Total Dark and explosion of Unstable Core remain untouched. Nerf. Huge nerf, in fact
• Solar Flare:
• Reduced the cast time from this ability and the Dark Flare morph to 1 second from 1.1 seconds. That is a 9% speed increase. But ...
• Reduced the damage by approximately 37% to make up for the fact that it can be cast more frequently. That's a nerf.
• Sun Fire: Adjusted this ability and its morphs to follow our standardized Damage Over Time ruleset. Total duration has been increased to 8 seconds from 6.25 seconds, and increased the damage per tick by approximately 31% to make up for the loss of the first tick. This will result in roughly the same overall DPS, but with less burst damage. That's a nerf. More damage sooner is always better.
• Breath of Life: Fixed an issue where the secondary heal granted from this ability was able to ignore the caster’s line of sight and target players behind them. Nerf. Bug-fix, but still a nerf

I read the notes with exactly the same mindset. It's the standard treatment Templars have always gotten from the Devs, identify a pain point, make a change that slightly alleviates it and then destroy any improvement that makes in the class by introducing other unnecessary changes/nerfs that leave the class weaker overall.

Iskiab

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

BreakingBats wrote: »

The Dark Flare nerf will hurt but as long as it has that aoe major defile then it's staying on my bar.

Eclipse was nerfed for sure, but it probably was overturned. For those who say people could break free... yea, that’s sorta good too isn’t it? You’re attacking someone’s stamina pool. I only play non-CP so attacking stamina is effective. People who block a lot tend to not die until their stamina’s gone or are cc’d in a way that can’t be blocked.

Eclipse wasnt overtuned at all, it Counts as hard cc towards cc immunity and stuff but it actually doesnt hard cc the target, so it was simply a gamble if your target knew that Breaking it might be benificial if you intended to attack (or were a dk) or didnt break it and either kept attacking, then it was strong, or just kited in which case you got cc immunity after letting it run out and it did very Little to you.
I really dont understand how People consider eclipse/total dark to be overperforming outside of its (Buggy) interactions with dk defensive abilities, it had very clear cut counter Play and you did not loose anything for Breaking it because you get the cc immunity just like after Breaking free of a stun.
In fact against a Player that knows what eclipse/total dark does its the most worthless harddc ability in the game since it does not even cc to open a burst window or something similar.

Well if it wasn’t overperforming then just stop using it. There are lots of positive Templar changes like shards being buffed (irrc). When I heal in pve I already use shards like a spammable on trash, there are lots of changes giving other options. I’m planning on trying shards as my pvp spammable along with dark flare.

akredon_ESO

Sanguinor2

Iskiab wrote: »

Well if it wasn’t overperforming then just stop using it. There are lots of positive Templar changes like shards being buffed (irrc). When I heal in pve I already use shards like a spammable on trash, there are lots of changes giving other options. I’m planning on trying shards as my pvp spammable along with dark flare.

So stupid, unneeded nerfs are now justified by "just stop using it"? I just dont get it why on earth one would nerf this and yes there is also positive templar changes but I cant really use shards to replace eclipse/total dark if I want to run it since shards hardly forces a break free through block unless we got a Stealth Change to it.
Also not every ability that gets used by Players in pvp is overperforming as you are implying here just saying.

ccmedaddy

My new patch resolution: send a thank you note and 500 gold to anyone who casts Total Dark on me.

techprince

37% is huge.

danno8

techprince wrote: »

37% is huge.

For my Templar in PvP I had already switched away from DF to Solar Barrage.

Now with the DF nerf and the buff to SB (an extra tick of damage right at the cast start; the first tick used to come at the 2s mark) it cements that decision.

What's the point of a cast time ability that does blah damage on par with no-cast abilities?

Mr_Nobody

Has anyone tested the Radiant Ward morph and checked for how much it effectively increases the shield in PvP?