Possible Way to Stop Zergs?

chris25602

every night that I do play eso I am in vivec. I understand that there are people that enjoy small man combat this is why you have battlegrounds. playing in cyrodil is playing a game where large groups of people skilled or not group together to accomplish taking keeps and other resources. That is the game. don't like it? stop playing it.

Here a few ground rules I have come up with that help me understand and play in an environment of many players and much lag; just my 2 cents and i am sure it there is better advice out there;

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Offense Zerging

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1.) Stay out of the eye.
If you are ever in a situation where you see 20+ in front of headed right for you... you already failed. rule #1 'stay out of the eye' of the zerg. Yes even when you are zerging stay out of the eye of the zerg. Zergs are like one eyed snakes they see nothing
unless its directly in their path. Even your own zerg is mindless and so are your opponents. The mindless clash will ensue and maybe 10% of those involved are responsible for success. Half of those aren't even participating in the fight.
2.) Flank or shank.
Being part of a zerg means that 90% of the group does not give a *** what you do. you do not directly matter. Man up stop caring. What can you do to help? well, flank or shank. its a call you have to make every 10 seconds.
If you aren't then your dead and not helping anyone.
3.) Specialization
In a small man group you have to perform many roles. Roles that are usually described as 1 class or 1 role(dps, tank, heal). In a situation where you have 5 of every role; Going through a delicate, classy and complex rotation just isnt helpful. You need to judge the situation.
If alot of damage is being done but, people just arent dieing... target the healers with your execute and spam. You have a troublemaker tank running rough shot over the zerg...use channel attacks with poison and hit him with soul assualt. You have a cloak, gank problem;
caltrops, detect and immov. Your Zerg is getting eaten up but you arent a tank.. kite through the lines doing little to no dmg.. people will be distracted ... your team will be emboldened. The list is endless and only learned with experience. punking out because the 'new' effects are cheap or OP is just baby talking.

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Defense

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1.) Be the eye.
Yeah I know it sounds like bs. But if you want to survive the retreat and reach a bottleneck point you can reposte from...be the eye. Help others into the eye if your close. Cast heals throw stuns keep as many people going as possible. It sounds dumb but, even 5 people in a 25
man zerg devoted to an orderly retreat will see you through and even cannon fodder can kill in the midst of a clogged milegate.
2.) Ultimate
Of course everyone uses ultimate for offense but, careful application is essential to make those pushing you flinch. In a zerg it can also be helpful to run wierd or underused ults that can give a specific advantage. Yes everyone and their brother uses eye of the storm or ice commet;
what other ults could prove a game changer for your zerg?
3.) Be seige prepared
Most zergs will fail when members are just straight up stupid and dont have seige. This is especially important for defense. If you run pvdoor than you know to have offensive seige weapons.
But being able to wip out an oil catapult while defending a rss..no one expects it and quite a few people die. In defensive seiges smart defense can often fizzle even the most determined offensive. Zerg defense(stand on wall and LA) often leads to being capped.

I am sure I could go on and I sure this will get shouted down in an anti zerg thread but, really all of us cyro people are playing a game different from what 'ant-zerg' people want and we like it that way. its not madness it just requires different tactics.

LoreToo

Iskiab wrote: »

I’m predicting ball groups will be gone with combat changes and necro. I could be wrong but that’s my hunch.

It won’t stop people grouping up.

You are wrong. Based on pts week one changes - we will just change dps main class and grab some new supports (necro). Ball groups will be even stronger with all upcomming changes and new class.
And yeah, one imho: this game was designed for a group play (aka "LOOK I PLAY SKYRIM WITH MY FRIENDS COOOOOOL"), so, why the hell everyone hates ppl who group up, make build for a group play, do smth that any group will do(pushing into one point, time their skills ect)? This is mmo, so ppl will group up because its mmo

Iskiab

LoreToo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I’m predicting ball groups will be gone with combat changes and necro. I could be wrong but that’s my hunch.

It won’t stop people grouping up.

You are wrong. Based on pts week one changes - we will just change dps main class and grab some new supports (necro). Ball groups will be even stronger with all upcomming changes and new class.
And yeah, one imho: this game was designed for a group play (aka "LOOK I PLAY SKYRIM WITH MY FRIENDS COOOOOOL"), so, why the hell everyone hates ppl who group up, make build for a group play, do smth that any group will do(pushing into one point, time their skills ect)? This is mmo, so ppl will group up because its mmo

Maybe, it’s the kind of thing that’s difficult to predict. The ball groups that are constantly running away looking for a rock to ambush from will be more mobile with RAT. Thing is about that style is it’s like a lot of 1vX builds, if people don’t chase all the group has accomplished is running away.

RAT will be excellent but it’s still a magicka based skill and prone to negate + talon combos. While it’ll be good for ball groups to stay together, I think it’ll be more useful getting out of ball group charges.

sly007

Iskiab wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

For all you kids who are claiming that all small scalers or 1vXers “run sets that make them unkillable but do a lot of damage”
That’s called being good.
Not our fault you’re so bad at the game you don’t even know what a good player does when he 1vX’s you. Maybe you should learn the game and get some thumbs instead of sitting in a 24 man. Some of you thumbless zerglings crying on the forums about 1vX players you just show everyone how much of a mediocre and rubbish player you are.

Do you actually believe that? I’m not against 1vX players but you have to be honest about what you’re doing.

Could you do the same thing in say shacklebreaker and julianos with only healthy, robust or arcane traits on jewellery, and only using maybe 300 CPs? Stuff a new player would use and have? If not, where is the skill you’re talking about.

Don't forget, once upon a time that's what we all used in pvp. Agility, hunding, one bloodspawn, one kena, maelstrom bow, maelstrom 2h was meta for a very long time. Players used that to 1vx all day. I'm sure back then, the less experienced players blamed maelstrom weapons like you are blaming gear now. They also blamed cp back when the cap was 501. They still blame cp. Now when you go into non cp, they blame Gold gear, or some say it's the cheese you are using. Heck, some just say lag and call it a day.

Bottom line, the excuses will always be in repeat. And that's all they are, excuses.

IEatCivics

Stop zergs with group builds specializing in controlling enemies while debuffing the enemy while buffing your team.
You don't get any big number glory, but your group wipes everyone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIMnYoGe5Tg

Didgerion

XxNINJAMANxD wrote: »

What if to stop zerging when there are over X amount of one group in a spot they all end of getting some sort of debuff? like maybe after X many people are in the same area and a new person shows up it puts a debuff of some kind on? maybe make everyone in that group take more damage? So it goes from being impossible to kill an entire zerg to maybe having a chance?

Not sure this would work or not, im sure bombers would love it, and idk if the servers could handle this.

That won't work. Even debuffed, the only counter to a zerg is another zerg...which will be debuffed as well, so you go nowhere with this solution.

IEatCivics

Didgerion wrote: »

XxNINJAMANxD wrote: »

What if to stop zerging when there are over X amount of one group in a spot they all end of getting some sort of debuff? like maybe after X many people are in the same area and a new person shows up it puts a debuff of some kind on? maybe make everyone in that group take more damage? So it goes from being impossible to kill an entire zerg to maybe having a chance?

Not sure this would work or not, im sure bombers would love it, and idk if the servers could handle this.

That won't work. Even debuffed, the only counter to a zerg is another zerg...which will be debuffed as well, so you go nowhere with this solution.

That Debuff is called Minor & Major Vulnerability. ALso have Minor & Major Defile to reduce healing and skills that strait take away X amount of healing.

Everything you ask for is in the game. Press the buttons, stop wanting the game to press the buttons for you.

InvictusApollo

It seems that you miss the good old times when siege engines were capable of creating battle lines and counter both zerglings and ball groups.

TheBonesXXX

InvictusApollo wrote: »

It seems that you miss the good old times when siege engines were capable of creating battle lines and counter both zerglings and ball groups.

Well, it worked.

Iskiab

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

It seems that you miss the good old times when siege engines were capable of creating battle lines and counter both zerglings and ball groups.

Well, it worked.

Sounds horrible. I’ve played pvp games with no man’s lands between sides in large scale pvp. It’s boring and not fun, especially for melee.

I hated siege while it was bugged but I only play non-CP. Buffing it in CP only was a good choice.

Emma_Overload

Interesting idea OP, but ZOS will never implement this because... wait for it... ZOS loves zergs!

I only remember one era in ESO's history when ZOS bowed to demands to "do something" about zergs. That was when Proxy Det and Vicious Death had great synergy and could be used by a single guy to take out a huge group. Well, that only lasted for a few months before it all got nerfed to Oblivion.

idk

There is a way to stop zergs and any good group leader with a group of skilled players willing to listen and act as they are told to, when they are told to, can get it done. Of course those in the group will run the skills they are told to run. This is not some casual, do as I want, type of group.

RighteousBacon

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Orrrrr why not incentivize solo/small group play vs. punish zergs? I'd rather zerg than face player who somehow have unlimited stamina, unlimited health, and can somehow do a LOT of damage... not a lot of motivation knowing I can't take those down and that it's not a fun fight. I enjoy 1 vs 1 in Cyro, but not with those... tanks? Whatever they are. That shouldn't be allowed to happen.

So you’re saying to incentivize, small group/solo play we should nerf individual players who have made better builds than you? Not only that but they are probably just better players than you if you really can’t break them down.

Idk man it’s just funny to me that your excuse for zerging is that you’re afraid to face better players 1 on 1.

RighteousBacon

Luckylancer wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Its honestly sad that ZoS wants to gut solo PvP just because it will ruin a few players immersion.

This is the funniest thing i saw in forums so far. A man want 1vs10-20-30 game play to be viable and put this argument.

thankyourat wrote: »

Wether that be a 3 man zerg or a 24 man zerg.

More than 1 is zerg for 1vXers. Would you call me zerg to if i bring my pet?

I am happy they gut 1vX. L2p team play mate.

Lol, zergling

Iskiab

RighteousBacon wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Orrrrr why not incentivize solo/small group play vs. punish zergs? I'd rather zerg than face player who somehow have unlimited stamina, unlimited health, and can somehow do a LOT of damage... not a lot of motivation knowing I can't take those down and that it's not a fun fight. I enjoy 1 vs 1 in Cyro, but not with those... tanks? Whatever they are. That shouldn't be allowed to happen.

So you’re saying to incentivize, small group/solo play we should nerf individual players who have made better builds than you? Not only that but they are probably just better players than you if you really can’t break them down.

Idk man it’s just funny to me that your excuse for zerging is that you’re afraid to face better players 1 on 1.

Can’t we all just get along?

As part of a larger guild I could say solo specs are for dueling and I’m not even sure if I’d classify them as pvp

Small scale could say larger guilds let bad players hide in the crowd

1vXers could say everyone’s a zergling

Or you know, everyone could stop trying to shape the game around their playstyle and just focus on having fun. I think all styles are admirable if done well.

frostz417

Iskiab wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Orrrrr why not incentivize solo/small group play vs. punish zergs? I'd rather zerg than face player who somehow have unlimited stamina, unlimited health, and can somehow do a LOT of damage... not a lot of motivation knowing I can't take those down and that it's not a fun fight. I enjoy 1 vs 1 in Cyro, but not with those... tanks? Whatever they are. That shouldn't be allowed to happen.

So you’re saying to incentivize, small group/solo play we should nerf individual players who have made better builds than you? Not only that but they are probably just better players than you if you really can’t break them down.

Idk man it’s just funny to me that your excuse for zerging is that you’re afraid to face better players 1 on 1.

Can’t we all just get along?

As part of a larger guild I could say solo specs are for dueling and I’m not even sure if I’d classify them as pvp

Small scale could say larger guilds let bad players hide in the crowd

1vXers could say everyone’s a zergling

Or you know, everyone could stop trying to shape the game around their playstyle and just focus on having fun. I think all styles are admirable if done well.

You sound extremely ignorant right now.
Solo spec’s aren’t for dueling but more for playing outnumbered. The fact that you thought of something that silly astonishes me.
Zergs have clearly ruined PvP. Especially with night capping and excessive PvDooring to the point where zerglings don’t even fight but rather just run to the nearest structure to siege even when they outnumber their opponent. To the point where most people do not care for campaign scoring because what’s the point? People just wait till late night to nightcap and PvDoor the entire map and get their AP while the real competitors are asleep. Zerging has made cyrodiil just a PvDoor contest and makes it lack any fighting competition but rather who can take the most empty keeps.
It’s quite clear it needs to be addressed because of how stale it is making PvP.

Iskiab

frostz417 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Orrrrr why not incentivize solo/small group play vs. punish zergs? I'd rather zerg than face player who somehow have unlimited stamina, unlimited health, and can somehow do a LOT of damage... not a lot of motivation knowing I can't take those down and that it's not a fun fight. I enjoy 1 vs 1 in Cyro, but not with those... tanks? Whatever they are. That shouldn't be allowed to happen.

So you’re saying to incentivize, small group/solo play we should nerf individual players who have made better builds than you? Not only that but they are probably just better players than you if you really can’t break them down.

Idk man it’s just funny to me that your excuse for zerging is that you’re afraid to face better players 1 on 1.

Can’t we all just get along?

As part of a larger guild I could say solo specs are for dueling and I’m not even sure if I’d classify them as pvp

Small scale could say larger guilds let bad players hide in the crowd

1vXers could say everyone’s a zergling

Or you know, everyone could stop trying to shape the game around their playstyle and just focus on having fun. I think all styles are admirable if done well.

You sound extremely ignorant right now.
Solo spec’s aren’t for dueling but more for playing outnumbered. The fact that you thought of something that silly astonishes me.
Zergs have clearly ruined PvP. Especially with night capping and excessive PvDooring to the point where zerglings don’t even fight but rather just run to the nearest structure to siege even when they outnumber their opponent. To the point where most people do not care for campaign scoring because what’s the point? People just wait till late night to nightcap and PvDoor the entire map and get their AP while the real competitors are asleep. Zerging has made cyrodiil just a PvDoor contest and makes it lack any fighting competition but rather who can take the most empty keeps.
It’s quite clear it needs to be addressed because of how stale it is making PvP.

Actually you sound ignorant of what MMO pvp is. Obviously your first MMO pvp game with RvR.

You sound salty because there are more players in cyrodiil. Completely oblivious that pvp has become a sort of end game for ESO. More people participate in cyrodiil then HM trials.

From what I can tell all the 1vX complaints stem from losing OP abilities so people are unable to noob stomp. Now that X OP ability/set isn’t strong enough to let someone take on 20 people solo, the ask is now to have abilities or siege be so ridiculously overpowered vs groups?

I’m sure for some what they enjoy about 1vX is the challenge. That’s obviously not true for most looking at some of the ridiculous requests in this thread. Plus, every time someone brings up overturned sets or abilities the first post is always, ‘It’ll hurt 1vX’. Then a bunch say it’s skill based, if it’s skill based you don’t need the OP things, if it’s gear based you do.

Choose which one is the 1vX playstyle, if it’s skill then stop defending and asking for OP things.

frostz417

Iskiab wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Orrrrr why not incentivize solo/small group play vs. punish zergs? I'd rather zerg than face player who somehow have unlimited stamina, unlimited health, and can somehow do a LOT of damage... not a lot of motivation knowing I can't take those down and that it's not a fun fight. I enjoy 1 vs 1 in Cyro, but not with those... tanks? Whatever they are. That shouldn't be allowed to happen.

So you’re saying to incentivize, small group/solo play we should nerf individual players who have made better builds than you? Not only that but they are probably just better players than you if you really can’t break them down.

Idk man it’s just funny to me that your excuse for zerging is that you’re afraid to face better players 1 on 1.

Can’t we all just get along?

As part of a larger guild I could say solo specs are for dueling and I’m not even sure if I’d classify them as pvp

Small scale could say larger guilds let bad players hide in the crowd

1vXers could say everyone’s a zergling

Or you know, everyone could stop trying to shape the game around their playstyle and just focus on having fun. I think all styles are admirable if done well.

You sound extremely ignorant right now.
Solo spec’s aren’t for dueling but more for playing outnumbered. The fact that you thought of something that silly astonishes me.
Zergs have clearly ruined PvP. Especially with night capping and excessive PvDooring to the point where zerglings don’t even fight but rather just run to the nearest structure to siege even when they outnumber their opponent. To the point where most people do not care for campaign scoring because what’s the point? People just wait till late night to nightcap and PvDoor the entire map and get their AP while the real competitors are asleep. Zerging has made cyrodiil just a PvDoor contest and makes it lack any fighting competition but rather who can take the most empty keeps.
It’s quite clear it needs to be addressed because of how stale it is making PvP.

Actually you sound ignorant of what MMO pvp is. Obviously your first MMO pvp game with RvR.

You sound salty because there are more players in cyrodiil. Completely oblivious that pvp has become a sort of end game for ESO. More people participate in cyrodiil then HM trials.

From what I can tell all the 1vX complaints stem from losing OP abilities so people are unable to noob stomp. Now that X OP ability/set isn’t strong enough to let someone take on 20 people solo, the ask is now to have abilities or siege be so ridiculously overpowered vs groups?

I’m sure for some what they enjoy about 1vX is the challenge. That’s obviously not true for most looking at some of the ridiculous requests in this thread. Plus, every time someone brings up overturned sets or abilities the first post is always, ‘It’ll hurt 1vX’. Then a bunch say it’s skill based, if it’s skill based you don’t need the OP things, if it’s gear based you do.

Choose which one is the 1vX playstyle, if it’s skill then stop defending and asking for OP things.

1vX is skill based. Literally no 1vX’ers abuse these cheese proc sets or “OP” things. If anything zerglings abuse these broken mechanics more than anyone. Such as People with ice staves root spamming, Snipe spammers, proc sets like zaans, earthgore, prevalent snares. All these things ruin 1vXing. The OP things are what kill 1vXing.

Most people would prefer for Zergs to be split up rather than everyone faction stacking and lag out the servers.

Not sure how I’m salty there’s more players in cyrodiil. I’d be happy with a larger population so that there isn’t only 1 damned campaign to chose while the other 3 remain dead.

1vX’ing isn’t being nerfed because “OP thing is nerfed”
1vXing has been being nerfed because zos introduces cancer like earthgore, zaans, timestop, res bots, and making snares&roots so prevalent and broken, as well as snipe spamming... all these are the primary culprits of what is killing 1vX and small scale.
The only thing that you can say got nerfed which destroyed 1VXing is in durpmire when speed was nerfed as well as sources to remove snares&roots which made snares extremely overpowered.
Doesn’t seem like you know much about 1vXing which makes you lack perspective of PvP playstyles and you speak from the perspective of a zergling. I’d advise you to actually try solo and small scale before you make such assumptions.
Way back when I wasn’t a serious pvp’er, uncapped cp, and would actually be apart of large zerg guilds. I found it rather stale because you mostly just PvDoor the map and trying to play for the map was meaningless because of things like nightcapping.
I’ve moved on from caring about such pointless things and actually chose to just farm AP because it’s a lot more enjoyable and skill based rather than just taking empty keeps and sieging people.

psychotic13

I think they should make AP relative to group size. Give people incentive that theyll gain more AP in small groups with a '+X%' AP buff, and then add some sort of '-X%' AP debuff when the group gets to a certain size, gradually getting more depending on group size.

Would be some sort of middle ground to, a neutral group size where you'd gain neither the buff or debuff.

RedGirl41

Maybe if each keep wasnt an easy minimum 6k ap they wouldn’t bring the whole alliance to each keep, including empty ones.

Goregrinder

Why would we want to stop 300 player battles? That's why I jump into Cyrodiil instead of log into WoW or any other WoW clone MMORPG with PVP.....?

david_m_18b16_ESO

Why dont you just do BG ?

LoreToo

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why would we want to stop 300 player battles? That's why I jump into Cyrodiil instead of log into WoW or any other WoW clone MMORPG with PVP.....?

Because ppl dont know how to fight and can not adapt. Thats why tons of players kep crying on forums

gepe87

More keeps, bigger map.