Possible Way to Stop Zergs?

frostz417

Luckylancer wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Its honestly sad that ZoS wants to gut solo PvP just because it will ruin a few players immersion.

This is the funniest thing i saw in forums so far. A man want 1vs10-20-30 game play to be viable and put this argument.

thankyourat wrote: »

Wether that be a 3 man zerg or a 24 man zerg.

More than 1 is zerg for 1vXers. Would you call me zerg to if i bring my pet?

I am happy they gut 1vX. L2p team play mate.

Maybe solo players don’t want to rely on teammates and challenge themselves?
How about you acquire thumbs and quit spamming 1 buttion in your 24 man.
If you think that group play is harder than 1vX then how about you go and 1vX for a change and see how difficult it is.
Also most GOOD small scale 1vX’ers typically can take on 2-5 people. 5+ and that’s honestly just fantastic on their part and they used terrain to their advantage.
The fact that you think “1v10-20-30 shouldn’t be viable” just proves how ignorant you are to any form of solo small scale.
Small scale and solo players are able to take on so many enemies because they use terrain to their advantage and kite damage. But of course you wouldn’t know that since you sit in a zerg spamming 1 button like a thumbless fish. Zerglings are what ruin the game.
So how about you acquire thumbs and learn how small scale is before you make such ridiculous claims other wise quit talking in this thread because nobody cares to read your incoherent zergling gibberish

moosegod

1vX is basically just pub-stomping, fighting several noobs and coming out on top. It's very unlikely for a player with equal skill as his opponents to win outnumbered. Maybe against two skilled players if you play perfectly but the way ZOS has balanced things now makes fighting an X very difficult. I have been playing solo for years now and it just gets harder and harder. If I win an X it's still exciting but most of that X isn't healing properly, not weaving, or are just too slow at reacting. It's fun to beat noobs like that sometimes but now I just roam looking for good duels.

technohic

If pets and friendly players provide LOS protection for them, it should also provide LOS issues with hitting you. Of course they'll never do that because it would really raise calculations.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

Why would you want to stop it? Zerging is how many PVE players get their AP to level Assault and Support lines. Many end up as hard core PVP players.

I see quite a few PVP Streamers running what I think are "Zergs". Large scale groups of 24 or more attacking other Factions Keeps and Resources. It's part of the game. You want to nerf Lord Fengrush's Orc Army? Hmmm...

frostz417

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

Why would you want to stop it? Zerging is how many PVE players get their AP to level Assault and Support lines. Many end up as hard core PVP players.

I see quite a few PVP Streamers running what I think are "Zergs". Large scale groups of 24 or more attacking other Factions Keeps and Resources. It's part of the game. You want to nerf Lord Fengrush's Orc Army? Hmmm...

Because zerging is the primary culprit of tremendous lag. You get 24+ people on one side against another 24+ and immediately frames drop, ping spikes, and people begin crashing. That’s if Zergs actually fight.. which they rarely do
Also most if not all zerglings just PvDoor anyways whilst avoiding other Zergs.
Nothing enjoyable about trying to fight a bunch of zerglings only for them to all just run back to their keep and siege you.
I’m speaking from a perspective of a solo and small scale player.
Zergs have ruined cyrodiil because it makes all these new pvpers just want to PvDoor and get free and easy AP while avoiding fights; the few that do fight typically just overwhelmingly outnumber their opponent and the side with the smaller numbers always loses because of the larger group having so many numbers it just lags up the server and the smaller group always suffers the most through lag.
Oh yeah and not to mention 99% of all the zerglings are extremely unskilled players who are extremely bad at the game but think they’re good because 23 other people are carrying them. 🤷‍♂️
So to answer your question yes it would be benefitical to nerf Zergs.
How do you ask? By implementing more things to work in conjunction to proximity detonation or vicious death. Like making siege have similar mechanics to proximity detonation. Or introduce healing caps

InvictusApollo

This conversation reminds of a time I fought a 1vXing stamsorc. He was good. He was using a rock to hide behind. There was just me and some "sniper".
I could chase him around the rock like others or I could lure him into the open field.
I chose the second option. The stamsorc emerged from his hiding spot and charged me. The sniper was in stealth.
Guess what that sniper did?
1. Wait untill stamsorc attacks me and then put some arrows in his back.
2. Run away knowing that he is vastly outmatched.
3. Take cover behind the rock to unleash a finishing combo after the stamsorc retreats there for the third time.
4. Attack the stamsorc the moment he was visible.
5. Join me in the open field, group up for a tactical advantage and buffs from my Spell Power Cure set.

And here is the answer:

4. Attack the stamsorc the moment he was visible.
In other words: the dumbest, most *** thing that he could have done. Instead of letting me lure the enemy into open field, letting me tank him, debuff and damage, he decided to attack immediately. The result? The sniper died in 3 seconds and I was left alone with only one hand on mouse - because the other was on my face as I was facepalming. Ofcourse I survived and routed the 1vXer but this just shows what kind of "skill" many players have. Actually it's not about skill. It's plain intelligence. Some have it - others don't.

killimandrosb16_ESO

frostz417 wrote: »

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

Why would you want to stop it? Zerging is how many PVE players get their AP to level Assault and Support lines. Many end up as hard core PVP players.

I see quite a few PVP Streamers running what I think are "Zergs". Large scale groups of 24 or more attacking other Factions Keeps and Resources. It's part of the game. You want to nerf Lord Fengrush's Orc Army? Hmmm...

Because zerging is the primary culprit of tremendous lag. You get 24+ people on one side against another 24+ and immediately frames drop, ping spikes, and people begin crashing. That’s if Zergs actually fight.. which they rarely do
Also most if not all zerglings just PvDoor anyways whilst avoiding other Zergs.
Nothing enjoyable about trying to fight a bunch of zerglings only for them to all just run back to their keep and siege you.
I’m speaking from a perspective of a solo and small scale player.
Zergs have ruined cyrodiil because it makes all these new pvpers just want to PvDoor and get free and easy AP while avoiding fights; the few that do fight typically just overwhelmingly outnumber their opponent and the side with the smaller numbers always loses because of the larger group having so many numbers it just lags up the server and the smaller group always suffers the most through lag.
Oh yeah and not to mention 99% of all the zerglings are extremely unskilled players who are extremely bad at the game but think they’re good because 23 other people are carrying them. 🤷‍♂️
So to answer your question yes it would be benefitical to nerf Zergs.
How do you ask? By implementing more things to work in conjunction to proximity detonation or vicious death. Like making siege have similar mechanics to proximity detonation. Or introduce healing caps

In theory I agree with a lot of your points but you wont get a like from me because of your complete lack of diversing the playerbase. The world isnt black and white. 99% of people in a coordinated group arent extremely bad at the game. Some years ago the best parts of cyrodiil was watching good guild groups fight each other. In your world these would all be baddies, but Im willing to bet my left arm most of them would wipe the floor with you in a one vs one. Dont blam the coordinated groups, blame zos for making promises of large scale battles their *** cant handle. But as I said, for the most part I agree, the whole PvE *** is gonna ruin the game. Maybe its time to totally remove all ap gains and stack it until end of campaign rewards.

TheBonesXXX

moosegod wrote: »

1vX is basically just pub-stomping, fighting several noobs and coming out on top. It's very unlikely for a player with equal skill as his opponents to win outnumbered. Maybe against two skilled players if you play perfectly but the way ZOS has balanced things now makes fighting an X very difficult. I have been playing solo for years now and it just gets harder and harder. If I win an X it's still exciting but most of that X isn't healing properly, not weaving, or are just too slow at reacting. It's fun to beat noobs like that sometimes but now I just roam looking for good duels.

This. I always go against the meta, but mathematical superiority will always come into play.

Siege has been the most effective at handling zergs.

TheBonesXXX

technohic wrote: »

If pets and friendly players provide LOS protection for them, it should also provide LOS issues with hitting you. Of course they'll never do that because it would really raise calculations.

I always wanted collision detection in this game.

LoreToo

InvictusApollo wrote: »

The best way to counter both zerg groups and ball groups was the siege bug. Sieges were drawing the lines on the battlefield. They were preventing lag and making battles actually epic.

It wasnt. Any group run 2-3 purge bots(tellin you as purge bot).

You have way more skills and opportunities to counter ANY zerg, just use your brain. Caltrops, timestops, conets, shifting standart, roots, streak ect. Just l2p

TheBonesXXX

Asking for the most efficient way of ridding the game of zergs yields some very defensive responses.

Again, siege has been most effective, within it's own limits.

The game is designed to straight line from keep to keep, perhaps additional environmental hazards could be implemented.

thankyourat

Luckylancer wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Its honestly sad that ZoS wants to gut solo PvP just because it will ruin a few players immersion.

This is the funniest thing i saw in forums so far. A man want 1vs10-20-30 game play to be viable and put this argument.

thankyourat wrote: »

Wether that be a 3 man zerg or a 24 man zerg.

More than 1 is zerg for 1vXers. Would you call me zerg to if i bring my pet?

I am happy they gut 1vX. L2p team play mate.

The reason why I don't like group PvP is because I never feel tested as a player. Nor can you test the limits of your build because you have so much support as well as group play is basically just stack together and then spam AOEs so it isn't very exciting gameplay. Plus I've developed the talent over the years to play by myself.

I'm also not asking for players not to group because this is a group based game for the most part. What I want is the ability to be able to defend myself and actually move around instead of being snared until I'm out of Stam and then light attacked to death. I do have a problem with how bad the players in the game are though. The players today are the least talented players in the history of this game, and if you encounter a player by themselves it's almost a 95% chance they will attempt to run away. I also have a problem that ZoS tends to buff and cater to these players when they already had the advantage of more numbers.

Iskiab

thankyourat wrote: »

Luckylancer wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Its honestly sad that ZoS wants to gut solo PvP just because it will ruin a few players immersion.

This is the funniest thing i saw in forums so far. A man want 1vs10-20-30 game play to be viable and put this argument.

thankyourat wrote: »

Wether that be a 3 man zerg or a 24 man zerg.

More than 1 is zerg for 1vXers. Would you call me zerg to if i bring my pet?

I am happy they gut 1vX. L2p team play mate.

The reason why I don't like group PvP is because I never feel tested as a player. Nor can you test the limits of your build because you have so much support as well as group play is basically just stack together and then spam AOEs so it isn't very exciting gameplay. Plus I've developed the talent over the years to play by myself.

I'm also not asking for players not to group because this is a group based game for the most part. What I want is the ability to be able to defend myself and actually move around instead of being snared until I'm out of Stam and then light attacked to death. I do have a problem with how bad the players in the game are though. The players today are the least talented players in the history of this game, and if you encounter a player by themselves it's almost a 95% chance they will attempt to run away. I also have a problem that ZoS tends to buff and cater to these players when they already had the advantage of more numbers.

Maybe they aren’t looking for duels, and in group focused specs? You don’t use the same skill loadout when you’re soloing as when you’re in a trial do you?

I think all these ‘Zerg’ threads are the equivalent of pve threads where soloers ask why they can’t solo raid bosses. Trailing and harassing a group is fine, but don’t get salty when they decide to swat you like a fly that’s buzzing around being annoying.

It’s basicly the same thing, groups can’t be bothered to take you out because there are bigger fish to fry. However, no one likes annoying bugs buzzing around so they need to be taken out occasionally. Usually if there are hate tells after we have a laugh about it, the implication is we’re not allowed to fight back.

I don’t think these types are really pvpers. They’re duellers, a small subsection of pvp. They haven’t figured out there’s more to pvp so consider other forms cheating or something silly like that.

Ahtu

How do you defeat an army? Form your own army and have competent raid leads. An army of sheep led by a lion is better than an army of lions led by a sheep.

Iskiab

Ahtu wrote: »

How do you defeat an army? Form your own army and have competent raid leads. An army of sheep led by a lion is better than an army of lions led by a sheep.

Or anyone who can keep them together. Just like in rugby, 8 people doing the wrong thing is better than 4 right and 4 wrong.

Cohesiveness is what matters.

Irylia

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

For all you kids who are claiming that all small scalers or 1vXers “run sets that make them unkillable but do a lot of damage”
That’s called being good.
Not our fault you’re so bad at the game you don’t even know what a good player does when he 1vX’s you. Maybe you should learn the game and get some thumbs instead of sitting in a 24 man. Some of you thumbless zerglings crying on the forums about 1vX players you just show everyone how much of a mediocre and rubbish player you are.

It shouldn't take a group of 5+ (experienced) people to kill one person. These are people who PvP every night, not whining noobs.

Might not be as experienced as you think. Just because you have played a long time doesn’t mean you can effectively utilize your character.

Irylia

Make all aoe damage do proxy scaling
Or large faction blobs get debuffed when stacking so many

EdoKeledus

Increase weapon siege damage. Oh wait !

DivineFirstYOLO

Irylia wrote: »

Make all aoe damage do proxy scaling
Or large faction blobs get debuffed when stacking so many

This!

mague

Enable character collision now !

TheBonesXXX

DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Make all aoe damage do proxy scaling
Or large faction blobs get debuffed when stacking so many

This!

Timmy and his Major Vuln gonna do that with Suicide Steve.

Mr_Nobody

Purge.

You Nerf Purge so it cleanses Self Only or 1 additional ally at best, or make it work as a synergy.

Kaboom, no more ball groups and stacking, and actual zerging.

ThanatosXR

Seige should not exist at all, its the worse design to cover up the map is largely ecourages zerging, a large mostly empty area with cap points taking a decade to travel to, zerging is literally the only way to conquer anything, a smaller map with better laid out goals is the only way. Even with a group it takes to long to respond to defend you keeps, top it off with no open group creator/join on consle typing takes long hence adding more time to grouping. The travel system is plain dumb, nearest spawn point based on held area would be better

Durham

InvictusApollo wrote: »

The best way to counter both zerg groups and ball groups was the siege bug. Sieges were drawing the lines on the battlefield. They were preventing lag and making battles actually epic.

Maybe siege doing more damage the more people it hits ...

Durham

frostz417 wrote: »

FleetwoodSmack wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

We had it but the meat-ling nerds got it reversed; OP siege.

That week of OP siege brings a single tear to my eye. I never seen so many people scatter when it actually hit.

Siege should have a proxy det effect. Not much damage on 1-4 people but 4+ and it is drastically increased. This is perfect for splitting apart zergs

/agree

Luckylancer

thankyourat wrote: »

The reason why I don't like group PvP is because I never feel tested as a player. Nor can you test the limits of your build because you have so much support as well as group play is basically just stack together and then spam AOEs so it isn't very exciting gameplay. Plus I've developed the talent over the years to play by myself.

I'm also not asking for players not to group because this is a group based game for the most part. What I want is the ability to be able to defend myself and actually move around instead of being snared until I'm out of Stam and then light attacked to death. I do have a problem with how bad the players in the game are though. The players today are the least talented players in the history of this game, and if you encounter a player by themselves it's almost a 95% chance they will attempt to run away. I also have a problem that ZoS tends to buff and cater to these players when they already had the advantage of more numbers.

Ok, you dont use LOS+run away and zerg womt slow. This works for you? No. Btw you can remove snares but they cant remove the rock you hide behind.

If you dont like 24 players LA you, you can BGs. There are max 8 opponents. But they wont be a patato after certain mmr. Is this ok for you? Ofcourse no, you like pub-stomping. ZoS is doing fine protecting noobs from pub stompers.

Iskiab

I’m predicting ball groups will be gone with combat changes and necro. I could be wrong but that’s my hunch.

It won’t stop people grouping up.

As for 1vX gameplay, I think it’s cool that people try and build specs around it. Personally never fight them. Is there a 1vX player who doesn’t run for a tree or rock to pvp? Whenever I encounter one they run away. The choice always seems to be fight a guy constantly running away for 5 minutes or do something productive.

InvictusApollo

Iskiab wrote: »

I’m predicting ball groups will be gone with combat changes and necro. I could be wrong but that’s my hunch.

It won’t stop people grouping up.

As for 1vX gameplay, I think it’s cool that people try and build specs around it. Personally never fight them. Is there a 1vX player who doesn’t run for a tree or rock to pvp? Whenever I encounter one they run away. The choice always seems to be fight a guy constantly running away for 5 minutes or do something productive.

I've seen one such guy on stamina... DK? or sth. He was wearing Fury. He fought a small zergling group all alone. But those enemies were very, very bad.

As for your comment: why do you think ball groups will dissappear?

GreenSoup2HoT

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

For all you kids who are claiming that all small scalers or 1vXers “run sets that make them unkillable but do a lot of damage”
That’s called being good.
Not our fault you’re so bad at the game you don’t even know what a good player does when he 1vX’s you. Maybe you should learn the game and get some thumbs instead of sitting in a 24 man. Some of you thumbless zerglings crying on the forums about 1vX players you just show everyone how much of a mediocre and rubbish player you are.

It shouldn't take a group of 5+ (experienced) people to kill one person. These are people who PvP every night, not whining noobs.

Honestly sounds like a L2P issue. Sounds like you got kited by some 1vX build and/or player with good mechanical skill/resource management.

There are still players in this game who can string out groups of 4-8 and kill them all. Usually these players have no voice because they know how to adapt and continue as they do.

Iskiab

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I’m predicting ball groups will be gone with combat changes and necro. I could be wrong but that’s my hunch.

It won’t stop people grouping up.

As for 1vX gameplay, I think it’s cool that people try and build specs around it. Personally never fight them. Is there a 1vX player who doesn’t run for a tree or rock to pvp? Whenever I encounter one they run away. The choice always seems to be fight a guy constantly running away for 5 minutes or do something productive.

I've seen one such guy on stamina... DK? or sth. He was wearing Fury. He fought a small zergling group all alone. But those enemies were very, very bad.

As for your comment: why do you think ball groups will dissappear?

Hum, just a hunch. I think it’ll be a combination of lots of things. Things working against ball groups:
- vulnerability change in the damage calculation. Minor and major vulnerability adds a ton more damage then protection, and bypass mitigation
- tether changes. No more glass canon healer builds that survive because of tether
- increase across the board in aoe damage
- I don’t know necro well, but I believe they’re a strong aoe class which will change the pvp landscape

Healing springs wasn’t buffed but aoe damage is seeing a major buff. Take away the efficiency from stacking and healing springs spam and bye bye ball groups. Stacking instead of creating an efficiency will create an inefficiency. If everyone attacking a ball group uses an aoe ability healers won’t be able to keep up, which you already see with dawnbreaker... usually first to negate and DB wins. If aoe goes up you can accomplish the same thing from 28m. One death sets off a chain reaction with vicious death.