Maintenance for the week of March 1:
•  [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – March 1, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 7:00AM EST (12:00 UTC)

PC-EU Server Update - April 11

  • me_ming
    me_ming
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    I really hope they DON'T extend the event, it's already quit dragging as it is. Can they just increase the number of tickets per day instead, so people still get the same number of tickets as expected?
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  • Zer0oo
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    Since it was just the EU server ignore it till we see also that the NA server gets close to the limit?


    The EU server performance was really bad since ages and was reported on the forums quite often but complete ignored. But now we got some news about this and it sound just like the big reason there will be a server upgrade is that the NA server will also get problems soon.
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  • KoultouraS
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    UrQuan wrote: »
    I call fake news. Remember when half the US server came over to EU and vice versa because we could win a villa? Performance was fine then and all those players were in 1 zone...
    Do you think all the NA players logged on to the EU server during EU prime time? And all the EU players logged on to the NA server during NA prime time (which, as Matt pointed out, is spread across more time zones than EU prime time is, so if the player bases are about the same size NA is going to have a lower peak player count)?

    The number of players logging on during a given day isn't the issue. It's the peak number of concurrent players that's the issue, and that's where you'll see server strain: if the peak concurrent players starts getting higher and higher (which it has over the last few months).

    Check out Steamcharts:
    https://steamcharts.com/app/306130
    The highest number of concurrent players ever for ESO on Steam (which is only a fraction of the PC player base, but should be representative) was 31,851, which just happened on March 31st - less than 2 weeks ago. The peak number of concurrent players for ESO on Steam during the month when everyone was logging on to both servers for the villa (Sep 2018) was 22,288.

    What I see is a continuously increased influx since December 2017.
    Mind to interpret that too?
    Edited by KoultouraS on April 11, 2019 9:25PM
  • The Uninvited
    The Uninvited
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    KoultouraS wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    I call fake news. Remember when half the US server came over to EU and vice versa because we could win a villa? Performance was fine then and all those players were in 1 zone...
    Do you think all the NA players logged on to the EU server during EU prime time? And all the EU players logged on to the NA server during NA prime time (which, as Matt pointed out, is spread across more time zones than EU prime time is, so if the player bases are about the same size NA is going to have a lower peak player count)?

    The number of players logging on during a given day isn't the issue. It's the peak number of concurrent players that's the issue, and that's where you'll see server strain: if the peak concurrent players starts getting higher and higher (which it has over the last few months).

    Check out Steamcharts:
    https://steamcharts.com/app/306130
    The highest number of concurrent players ever for ESO on Steam (which is only a fraction of the PC player base, but should be representative) was 31,851, which just happened on March 31st - less than 2 weeks ago. The peak number of concurrent players for ESO on Steam during the month when everyone was logging on to both servers for the villa (Sep 2018) was 22,288.

    What I see is a continuously increased influx since December 2017.
    Mind to interpret that too?

    Exactly!
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  • Varana
    Varana
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    First, it's nice to hear that there are more players than ever.

    Second, it's nice to finally get an acknowledgement that there even is an issue. The silence about any group finder hiccoughs, lag spikes, and similar problems has been deafening for months now.

    Third, it's also nice to hear that at last, something is being done about the problem.

    But.

    This didn't start in January. We had massive group finder problems during the Undaunted event, and even back then there was that infuriatingly stupid message (from Rich Lambert, iirc) that you thought the group finder had been fixed. Obviously not, as even a short look into your effing bug forum would've told you. GF on PC/EU has been acting up at least since Wolfhunter or Murkmire.
    And now this. Either you're lying, or group finder is broken just generally, or you have no clue.
  • ManwithBeard9
    ManwithBeard9
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    Varana wrote: »
    First, it's nice to hear that there are more players than ever.

    Second, it's nice to finally get an acknowledgement that there even is an issue. The silence about any group finder hiccoughs, lag spikes, and similar problems has been deafening for months now.

    Third, it's also nice to hear that at last, something is being done about the problem.

    But.

    This didn't start in January. We had massive group finder problems during the Undaunted event, and even back then there was that infuriatingly stupid message (from Rich Lambert, iirc) that you thought the group finder had been fixed. Obviously not, as even a short look into your effing bug forum would've told you. GF on PC/EU has been acting up at least since Wolfhunter or Murkmire.
    And now this. Either you're lying, or group finder is broken just generally, or you have no clue.

    GF is just generally broken, they stated that after the Undaunted event. They said they wouldnt have another event that required the use of it until it was properly fixed.
  • NeillMcAttack
    NeillMcAttack
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    Lol at the reference to the console servers. We all know they are gonna be fine.......
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  • UrQuan
    UrQuan
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    KoultouraS wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    I call fake news. Remember when half the US server came over to EU and vice versa because we could win a villa? Performance was fine then and all those players were in 1 zone...
    Do you think all the NA players logged on to the EU server during EU prime time? And all the EU players logged on to the NA server during NA prime time (which, as Matt pointed out, is spread across more time zones than EU prime time is, so if the player bases are about the same size NA is going to have a lower peak player count)?

    The number of players logging on during a given day isn't the issue. It's the peak number of concurrent players that's the issue, and that's where you'll see server strain: if the peak concurrent players starts getting higher and higher (which it has over the last few months).

    Check out Steamcharts:
    https://steamcharts.com/app/306130
    The highest number of concurrent players ever for ESO on Steam (which is only a fraction of the PC player base, but should be representative) was 31,851, which just happened on March 31st - less than 2 weeks ago. The peak number of concurrent players for ESO on Steam during the month when everyone was logging on to both servers for the villa (Sep 2018) was 22,288.

    What I see is a continuously increased influx since December 2017.
    Mind to interpret that too?
    It's not really a continuous increase since then - it's been relatively up and down, with Summer 2018 being particularly high (June & August peak concurrent player numbers were very high, while July's peak concurrent players was much lower, but still higher than average - obviously Summerset is responsible for that summer surge), but there are also months in that time frame when the number of peak players was significantly lower. It is a general upward trend over that time, but this is the first time there have been 4 consecutive months of growth in the Steam numbers.

    Ideally ZOS would have anticipated this situation based on the general upward trend over the last year or so, but I'd imagine that those dips in concurrent players that you see some months would have made them think twice about whether they were really going to see sustained long-term growth.
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  • KoultouraS
    KoultouraS
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    You do understand that steam players are not the majority of Eso users?
    Also you do understand that during the summer months a lot leave their residence on vacation?
    Right?
    What would you make of it ,if less than 1/2 of a population is increasing rapidly whereas there should be more of the same , having some ups and downs?
    Since december the stats show increasing influx during prime times. All except some few cases.
    If that's not enough to warrant investment into better equipment, I dont know what is.

    On a side note I bet the stats Zos had , regarding influx of non steam users is definitely against your argument as for why they hesitated all these years..
  • UrQuan
    UrQuan
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    KoultouraS wrote: »
    You do understand that steam players are not the majority of Eso users?
    You do understand that I explicitly said that right?
    UrQuan wrote: »
    The highest number of concurrent players ever for ESO on Steam (which is only a fraction of the PC player base, but should be representative) was 31,851, which just happened on March 31st - less than 2 weeks ago.
    It's still a representative slice of the player population, and although we can't use the numbers to say what the actual peak concurrent players were on any given server (especially as Steam numbers don't separate them between NA and EU), the sample size is big enough that the ups and downs should be pretty damn consistent with what will be seen in the overall concurrent players.
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  • Korah_Eaglecry
    Korah_Eaglecry
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    Acrolas wrote: »
    Short answer: It wasnt impacting their bottom line.

    Long answer: They would rather wait until things get ugly and have to go with extreme measures rather than spend money up front to get ahead of an issue.


    The real answer is that budgets aren't approved overnight, particularly ones dependent on supporting evidence, and work orders aren't immediate because funding and labor just don't work like that. That the expected turnaround time is only two weeks is evidence that they're not making this *** up as they go along.

    These inconveniences will be forgotten in a month. But it's the Internet and people will do what they normally do in the comments section.

    No ones claiming that a budget needs to be approved overnight. But budgets arent as tightly sealed up as you make it out to be. Depending on what is broken, not working or damaged. Its very likely the company has a list of things that have almost immediate releases of funds for repairs and replacements. Id wager a company that relies entirely on an online service has funds they can release if something was to go sideways with that service. As their means of making a profit would be absolutely impacted if they couldnt do this.

    Matt states in his letter that they knew the servers were experiencing issues due to traffic as early as January. They had 2+ months to address the issue, if they are being honest about when they noticed the increased traffic, and request funding for an expansion of their server farm.

    Im not putting this on Matt or any of the developers at ZOS. Its very likely the people in charge of said funding waited until the last minute to do anything and the developers had no other choice but to place a queue on log-in to hold things over til things can get fixed. And now that the issue of server load has now come to pass on the EU server, they have enough "proof" to go ahead with getting the NA servers expanded.
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  • sh_shatter
    EU players are a tiny bit more than 2 time zones considering Asia, Russia and some of ANZ folks are also playing on EU server
  • Caligamy_ESO
    Caligamy_ESO
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    Inaccurate minute estimates are pretty frustrating, perhaps if the login queue was more like Cyrodil where it told you your actual place in line it would be less of a pain.
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  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    @ZOS_MattFiror Just wanted to say thank you for the transparency. It's refreshing. Please don't take upset comments as a reason to stop, this is the type of changes your community like to see, good or bad, keep us posted.
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  • Puupi
    Puupi
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    Nice! :)
  • Mojmir
    Mojmir
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    As much of a *** i am too the devs. I understand what matt is going through. *** basically has to go this far south before his bosses will lift a finger and drop coin to improve.
    Raising floors and lower ceilings by zos standards has created an iron maiden.
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  • Recremen
    Recremen
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    Great to hear that the game is getting more popular to the point that we even need more infrastructure to handle the increased demand, and I'm glad that steps are being taken to address the problem. One question though, and I don't mean this to come off as too controversial, though it probably will, so I apologize in advance. Is there any estimate for how many accounts are just bot farmers of one type or another, and is there anything in the works to address the existing botting problems across all platforms? It just sucks that some of this server loud is probably driven by people with nefarious intentions, and I hope it doesn't account for too much of the increase.
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  • Marto
    Marto
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    Keep in mind guys, server infrastructure in NA (specially once huge corporations like Google and Amazon are involved) is just more advanced and readily available.

    Setting up a server in Europe or upgrading an existing one there is just not as easy.

    Add to that things like timezone differences, language differences, and the fact that Bethesda has employees and studios in Texas (Where the NA servers likely are) while they don't have any employees in the UK or Germany... and of course EU is going to take a while longer.
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  • BlueViolet
    BlueViolet
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    Thanks for giving us a more in depth explanation of what's going on, I'm sure many appreciate that, but I have to admit, I'm really disappointed about how things have been handled.

    Why is it that after so many months of people reporting incidents of server degradation, does it have to come to the point that a login queue has to be turned on because things were allowed to go this far without seemingly any investigation? It's almost like the EU and its players are just an afterthought.

    It is also sad that this kind of thing has happened during a major event. An event that I hope you will consider extending, for all the people who are missing out on playtime because of this debacle.



    EU / NA / PC
  • James-Wayne
    James-Wayne
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    I've been playing on EU recently due to the speed of my ping on NA and its much much better then NA, perhaps while you are getting more servers ready you can drop one in down under to Australia!

    Cheers mate!
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  • Uryel
    Uryel
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    Marto wrote: »
    Keep in mind guys, server infrastructure in NA (specially once huge corporations like Google and Amazon are involved) is just more advanced and readily available.

    Setting up a server in Europe or upgrading an existing one there is just not as easy.

    I call Ox-droppings on that. I used to admin a corporate server farm in a company that had subsidiaries all over the world, we had about 200 servers that needed to be available 24/7 from USA, Europe, China and whatnot, and that was back in 2007.

    What you describe is the late 90's.
    Edited by Uryel on April 12, 2019 3:11PM
    max_only wrote: »
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  • Banana
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    Excellent. Ill be hoping for that 280 ping I had at launch :)
  • Acrolas
    Acrolas
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    Uryel wrote: »
    Actually, Europe has 4 time zones. Eastern Europe is in one, western Europe in another, United Kingdom and Portugal are in a third, and Iceland is in its own time zone. Granted, it's not the small number of people from Iceland that will cause the biggest strain on the servers, but still, Europe has 4 time zones.

    The quote was "almost all of our EU players are located in two time zones".
    Likely specifically referring to Western European Time and Central European Time.

    Asian players might be spread between US and EU, so load should be expected. Seems to me that you guys didn't make a proper market study, there, because it sure feels like you had no idea how many people would actually play the game.

    Latin America and Asia are developing markets. Most people would acknowledge that the opportunities are theoretically there. But there's also a lot of financial risk and far less protection for intellectual property. It's not about just playing the game. There are so many more hard decisions involved.
    signing off
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