The problem is not with cloak it is with stamblade

Flame_of_Hades

mursie wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Both have very high killing potential, but stamblades burst is easier to pulloff because he has access to a front loaded burst combo. Magblade also has lethal burst, but is more backloaded because his only burst is attainable only after you do 5 light attacks. The heavy armor bleed variation of stamblades also has decent burst while having high pressure.

you won't find a higher front loaded burst than a from stealth, primed elemental weapon, light attack concealed weapon combo with caluurion legacy firing and soul harvest follow up. So no, i do not agree with your comment above. the front loaded burst of my magblade absolutely destroys the front loaded burst of my stamblade.. and it's not even close.

as to building the stamblade wrong... it's pretty simple. shacklebreaker for the highest stat density you can get in no-cp for sustain and magicka/stamina pools paired with a dmg set of your choice.. for me - spriggans. paired with bloodspawn.

that's pretty cookie cutter build and it still will get squashed in bg's with the aoe cluster of blockade of frost, caltrops, sub assault, steel tornado, dawn breaker, permafrost, hurricane, etc...

besides your point confirms what i'm saying: you believe stamblade has higher FRONT LOADED burst...because that's how u secure kills .. quick, front loaded, strategic kills. i already told you that magblade is better at that very thing..and it has higher magicka pools to sustain infinite cloak to ensure it opens on exactly the target it wants..securing very high kill counts. stam blade can not do this.

if you want to roll around and take hits out of stealth - be my guest.. you'll die in bg's with decent comp. or - you will spend most of your time avoiding dmg and killing nothing...waiting around to find an opportunity. instead - on my magblade.. i can stay in cloak and secure the kill i need.

Okay mursie, Here is another person that plays magblade AND stamblade, telling you that magblade is worse than stamblade.

In ganking - stamblade requires two abilities for a gank. snipe - incap. magblade requires a VERY high damage proc set.

Who has the better kit? the class who needs a set to gank, or the class that ganks with its kit? hmm.

on the other hand, Nb is not JUST a ganker. stamblade can brawl, bleedblades are a thing. magblades... can't. lack of heals/snare immunity means magblade can't access the same fights that a stamblade can.

stamblade has a much better way to avoid damage - roll dodge. Cloak has many counters, roll dodge has less counters AND they still have access to cloak in order to offset the increasing cost of roll dodge.

Do I think stamblade needs to be nerfed to the level of a magblade by removing stamblade ability to cloak? no. no. NO.

I think that stamblade needs to be brought to the level of the other classes, and mag blade needs to be buffed to the same level.

If you want a point - point comparison I am fully willing to debate this in PMs.

Insco851

Daus wrote: »

"Magblades hit like a wet Noodle" is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard.

Sustained dmg, without proc sets... easily at the very bottom.

Insta-gib some potatoes with proc sets ... easily at the very top.

But those are completely different styles of play. Standup magblade... prolonged fight? Yea your dmg is wack without a reliable bow proc landing.

HowlKimchi

mursie wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

[

Mate I played NB stamina, magicka and even hybrid ones long before you even been here. Give some arguments to prove your point or get out.

i only need one argument. that you are here crying about magblade underperformance relative to stam. if you played both, and knew what you were doing, that wouldn't be a comment you would type on these boards. it is the single piece of evidence for argument that I need to confidently tell you to go play the class before speaking again about it.

in battleground pvp, magblades have nearly infinite cloak sustain due to the large magicka pool. as a result, they can almost entirely ensure they enter combat at their discretion even when quick movements and aoe clusters alter that timing a few seconds... they simply recloak. I can, and have as recently as two days ago, go 35+ - 0 in a battlegrounds on a magblade.

The same can't be said about stamblades in battleground pvp. precisely due to the lack of infinite cloak sustain. they can't produce the same level of kills as the magblade because they spend to much time trying to find perfect windows of engagement with a limited magicka pool, often having to entirely bail and regen resources and look again for a perfect window within a 3 to 4 successive cloak window.

battlegrounds are aoe ball group clusters. nb's excel at ganking stragglers. separating and isolating individuals into mini 1v1 fights. the magblade can do it better in a battleground because they can utilize cloak more often and find those opportunities easier because of that sustain. period.

you would know this and understand this - if you actually played both classes in battleground pvp. my original comment, which STILL stands.

so - do us all a favor,
play both classes,
IN PVP,
and refrain from speaking here until such time that you understand the topic you are whining about.

mursie wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Both have very high killing potential, but stamblades burst is easier to pulloff because he has access to a front loaded burst combo. Magblade also has lethal burst, but is more backloaded because his only burst is attainable only after you do 5 light attacks. The heavy armor bleed variation of stamblades also has decent burst while having high pressure.

you won't find a higher front loaded burst than a from stealth, primed elemental weapon, light attack concealed weapon combo with caluurion legacy firing and soul harvest follow up. So no, i do not agree with your comment above. the front loaded burst of my magblade absolutely destroys the front loaded burst of my stamblade.. and it's not even close.

as to building the stamblade wrong... it's pretty simple. shacklebreaker for the highest stat density you can get in no-cp for sustain and magicka/stamina pools paired with a dmg set of your choice.. for me - spriggans. paired with bloodspawn.

that's pretty cookie cutter build and it still will get squashed in bg's with the aoe cluster of blockade of frost, caltrops, sub assault, steel tornado, dawn breaker, permafrost, hurricane, etc...

besides your point confirms what i'm saying: you believe stamblade has higher FRONT LOADED burst...because that's how u secure kills .. quick, front loaded, strategic kills. i already told you that magblade is better at that very thing..and it has higher magicka pools to sustain infinite cloak to ensure it opens on exactly the target it wants..securing very high kill counts. stam blade can not do this.

if you want to roll around and take hits out of stealth - be my guest.. you'll die in bg's with decent comp. or - you will spend most of your time avoiding dmg and killing nothing...waiting around to find an opportunity. instead - on my magblade.. i can stay in cloak and secure the kill i need.

I'm not talking about ganks. I'm talking about actual fights. Sure magblade burst with what you said is strong. But you have to take into account how a magblade built like that can fight after doing his initial burst and he fails to take down his target. He is running concealed, which means he is melee and he does not have swallow soul. Therefore, his healing/defenses probably suck even more than usual. Also builds like that lack the sustained damage to pressure opponents. Which means it's now even more impossible to get a 100-0 with a setup like that since the target is aware of your presence.

The magblade build im running right now I would say has decent offense in terms of burst and sustained damage. As I said. I have no issue with magblade offense. My problem is the defense of the class.

Stamblade on the other hand has access to frontloaded burst without going all in on offensive sets like the one you actually mentioned. Then they *still* have access to rolls, cloaks, and self heals.


That was the point of my first post that you've largely ignored.

if you want to roll around and take hits out of stealth - be my guest.. you'll die in bg's with decent comp. or - you will spend most of your time avoiding dmg and killing nothing...waiting around to find an opportunity. instead - on my magblade.. i can stay in cloak and secure the kill i need

i dunno everything youre saying is screaming L2P to me. Don't rely on cloak as a crutch on your stamblade maybe.

I'm probably done with this discussion because I feel like i've expressed my points quite clearly (and then being largely ignored) on why I, and many others, believe stamblade is doing much better than magblade in this patch. If you'd like more discussion like this, I invite you to go look for the pseudo-official discord for nightblade discussion.

HowlKimchi

mursie wrote: »

if you want to roll around and take hits out of stealth - be my guest.. you'll die in bg's with decent comp.

I think this is why we're having a disconnect in our discussion. You're limiting your point of view to high MMR BG matches where everyone is running aoe snares and grouping up as a mini ball group. In that scenario, stamblades AND magblades suck (in matches like these, heavy armor bleed stamblade is still good; while magblades are relegated to utility healers). However, in less organized and more chaotic situations, which is much more common than running into organized ball groups in BGs, stamblade shines. Also, in open world cyro, and 1vX situations, stamblades mobility trumps magblades soooo much.

ZOS_Ragnar

We have removed some comments from this thread that were baiting and not constructive. Even when you disagree with someone else's ideas, it is important that you remain civil with your post and avoid insulting comments. Before you post ask yourself if what you are writing is adding value to the discussion.