Change Maw of the Infernal 1pc

lassitershawn

So currently this set is borderline useful on a sorc using daedric prey, and substantially below other options on non-sorc classes. The daedroth can actually pull some pretty good DPS but is held back by the fact that the 1pc provides no damage bonus (especially considering that this is a class that already is often using slimecraw for berserk). I would propose that the 1pc bonus on this set is changed to either magicka, spell crit, spell damage, or even magicka recovery. This would put the set in a nice place damage wise I believe. The HP is nice, but not that useful, especially considering you are already using a pet if you are running daedric prey and your health pool is probably more than adequate already (sorc passives). Considering the relatively niche use of the set, and how awesome it is thematically, I believe that the 1pc really deserves to be made into a damage bonus. If some people are really attached to the health bonus, perhaps the 1pc could become something like what we've seen with stonekeeper or domihaus (tristat or HP+mag). This is a REALLY cool concept for a set, the daedroth is AWESOME, please make this set seriously competitive (at least for sorc).

Lupai

Yes plz

Kadoin

No. Why should a 2pc set favor any class or their passives?

susmitds

Last thing PvP pet sorcs need is a buff for their pet sets. There is already an infestation of them in BGs.

lassitershawn

Kadoin wrote: »

No. Why should a 2pc set favor any class or their passives?

It already does... I'm asking for the 1pc to be changed to make it viable for the one class that currently benefits from the 2pc. Also, other sets definitely perform differently on different classes or builds, just in a less direct way. Sets with crit bonuses benefit classes with crit damage passives more, sets with SD benefit sorcerer more, sets that deal or proc off shock damage already benefit sorc more (ilambris), sets that proc off dots benefit classes with a large number of dot ticks more. Sets that proc on LA (zaan) should in theory benefit templar less because they have and use channeled abilities.

Universe

No thanks.
This Monster helm set is powerful enough.
Also, Pet sorcerer is currently overperforming due to the Wrathstone+Murkmire changes.
I would like to see pets survivability & overall high damage combination nerfed.

lassitershawn

susmitds wrote: »

Last thing PvP pet sorcs need is a buff for their pet sets. There is already an infestation of them in BGs.

The buff is proposed with PvE in mind... if pets are so cancerous in PvP, just add a line in battle spirit or something...

lassitershawn

Universe wrote: »

No thanks.
This Monster helm set is powerful enough.
Also, Pet sorcerer is currently overperforming due to the Wrathstone+Murkmire changes.
I would like to see pets survivability & overall high damage combination nerfed.

"Pet" sorcerer meaning caster sorc + matriarch is more or less on-par with NB and templar right now, both of the other two are actually a bit better DPS in all likelyhood. Double pet sorcerer is pretty useless in real content (DLC HM raids) from my experience and nobody runs it. The change isn't that much of a buff and just makes it so its a bit more viable to run a fun set. My change actually would in fact nerf the survivability + damage combo by removing the HP bonus, and I've suggested something to nerf the defensive aspect of the matriarch here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/465624/twilight-proposal-for-magsorc-dps#latest

Moonsorrow

No thanks, i like the hp bonus it has.

Universe

lassitershawn wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

No thanks.
This Monster helm set is powerful enough.
Also, Pet sorcerer is currently overperforming due to the Wrathstone+Murkmire changes.
I would like to see pets survivability & overall high damage combination nerfed.

"Pet" sorcerer meaning caster sorc + matriarch is more or less on-par with NB and templar right now, both of the other two are actually a bit better DPS in all likelyhood. Double pet sorcerer is pretty useless in real content (DLC HM raids) from my experience and nobody runs it. The change isn't that much of a buff and just makes it so its a bit more viable to run a fun set. My change actually would in fact nerf the survivability + damage combo by removing the HP bonus, and I've suggested something to nerf the defensive aspect of the matriarch here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/465624/twilight-proposal-for-magsorc-dps#latest

I was mostly referring to PVP.
If ZOS can make the sorcerer pets more balanced, adjusting this set a bit to be pure damage can be fine.
Maybe like this: (1 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka.
Though the health from the one piece is quite useful and many players may want to keep it the way it is now.

lassitershawn

Universe wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

No thanks.
This Monster helm set is powerful enough.
Also, Pet sorcerer is currently overperforming due to the Wrathstone+Murkmire changes.
I would like to see pets survivability & overall high damage combination nerfed.

"Pet" sorcerer meaning caster sorc + matriarch is more or less on-par with NB and templar right now, both of the other two are actually a bit better DPS in all likelyhood. Double pet sorcerer is pretty useless in real content (DLC HM raids) from my experience and nobody runs it. The change isn't that much of a buff and just makes it so its a bit more viable to run a fun set. My change actually would in fact nerf the survivability + damage combo by removing the HP bonus, and I've suggested something to nerf the defensive aspect of the matriarch here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/465624/twilight-proposal-for-magsorc-dps#latest

I was mostly referring to PVP.
If ZOS can make the sorcerer pets more balanced, adjusting this set a bit to be pure damage can be fine.
Maybe like this: (1 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka.
Though the health from the one piece is quite useful and many players may want to keep it the way it is now.

Yea ignore the PvP element when thinking about the suggestion please, pets are clearly way different in PvP and PvE and I wish we didn't have to worry about this when balancing them for PvE. I did suggest some options in the original post for people who wanted to keep the HP that maybe the 1pc could become tristat like stonekeeper or mag and HP. But my personal opinion is that the extra HP is extremely unnecessary on a class already running the matriarch and getting extra HP through that (and a great burst heal).

Kadoin

lassitershawn wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

No thanks.
This Monster helm set is powerful enough.
Also, Pet sorcerer is currently overperforming due to the Wrathstone+Murkmire changes.
I would like to see pets survivability & overall high damage combination nerfed.

"Pet" sorcerer meaning caster sorc + matriarch is more or less on-par with NB and templar right now, both of the other two are actually a bit better DPS in all likelyhood. Double pet sorcerer is pretty useless in real content (DLC HM raids) from my experience and nobody runs it. The change isn't that much of a buff and just makes it so its a bit more viable to run a fun set. My change actually would in fact nerf the survivability + damage combo by removing the HP bonus, and I've suggested something to nerf the defensive aspect of the matriarch here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/465624/twilight-proposal-for-magsorc-dps#latest

I love it when people say this on the forums. If its not that much of a buff, then why ask for the change in the first place? Some way, somehow you will benefit enough for you to argue for a change and defend your position, but it isn't that much of a buff? Seems illogical to me.

Also claiming the set favors sorc is not true. Maybe for you, but you have no idea how or why anyone else is using the set.

lassitershawn

Kadoin wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

No thanks.
This Monster helm set is powerful enough.
Also, Pet sorcerer is currently overperforming due to the Wrathstone+Murkmire changes.
I would like to see pets survivability & overall high damage combination nerfed.

"Pet" sorcerer meaning caster sorc + matriarch is more or less on-par with NB and templar right now, both of the other two are actually a bit better DPS in all likelyhood. Double pet sorcerer is pretty useless in real content (DLC HM raids) from my experience and nobody runs it. The change isn't that much of a buff and just makes it so its a bit more viable to run a fun set. My change actually would in fact nerf the survivability + damage combo by removing the HP bonus, and I've suggested something to nerf the defensive aspect of the matriarch here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/465624/twilight-proposal-for-magsorc-dps#latest

I love it when people say this on the forums. If its not that much of a buff, then why ask for the change in the first place? Some way, somehow you will benefit enough for you to argue for a change and defend your position, but it isn't that much of a buff? Seems illogical to me.

Also claiming the set favors sorc is not true. Maybe for you, but you have no idea how or why anyone else is using the set.

The set CLEARLY favors sorc because sorc has an ability that increases pet damage by 55%. Literal smh my head. It being a minor buff versus a major buff is an important distinction because while it makes the set viable to use for DPS, it isn't likely big enough to change overall class balance.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

The set is fine now, very fun to use, but I would support the sort of change the op is talking about, since it would directly buff my mag sorc.

logarifmik

I like it the way it is. Use it on my Sorcerer for almost a year.

Bherdani

They already nerfed this set into the ground once when it became too OP. I doubt they would make the proposed change.

But, if they changed the first trait of one of the base monster sets, they should change all of them. Give us useful first traits for every set, I'm all for that.

TeIvanni

I already cannot see sparkles in vCR half the time because of the sea of matriarchs.
I'll pass on making Maw of the Infernal literally Best in Slot monster set for pet sorcs.

lassitershawn

TeIvanni wrote: »

I already cannot see sparkles in vCR half the time because of the sea of matriarchs.
I'll pass on making Maw of the Infernal literally Best in Slot monster set for pet sorcs.

HatchetHaro

The thing I am concerned about this proposed change is that pretty much any switch to Magicka might make Caster-Petsorcs far too powerful. In its current state, Maw of the Infernal is kind of at a healthy level for those peeps, and I don't think tanks would take kindly to having 8 Daedroths, Twilights, and maybe Scamps just wailing on a boss they're trying to keep taunt on (as much as I love visualizing that).

I mean, heck, I would love a buff to Maw of the Infernal just because it's an awesome set with an awesome proc, but maybe we should look at the bigger picture first before committing to any changes for now, such as PvP; I know you don't care for PvP but I do want to keep the overall game balance in mind, what with ZOS being unwilling to balance both separately and therefore guaranteed and proven to screw one side over with a balance change for the other. Just look at Argonians; they got completely *** because of ZOS's knee-jerk response to salty PvPer overreactions.

So my goal with this proposed change would be to replace the Max Health bonus with another set bonus that is more viable without making Sorcs overly powerful in PvE and PvP.

I'm personally fine with the Max Health bonus just because it means just a bit more survivability since I no longer run a shield with it. However, we can discuss the different possible alternatives.

Real quick, I am ruling out Max Magicka, Spell Damage, and Spell Crit as viable alternatives simply because I believe these choices would make Maw of the Infernal far too meta for Sorcs at the moment, and maybe also put them above Magplars and Magblades, tipping the scales of balance. These could be pretty cool stats to have, but ultimately I'm just put off by the idea of a set being fully meta.

I am on the fence about Magicka Recovery. On the one hand, Magicka Recovery doesn't directly boost damage, but on the other, Sorcs actually benefit a lot more from this stat compared to Templars and Nightblades; any little buff to their sustain would mean quite the damage boost just by shifting stats around to accommodate this extra sustain (such as switching to using bi-stat food on Bretons, switching out that Absorb Magicka glyph for a Weapon Damage one, or switching out a Reduce Spell Cost glyph for a Spell Damage one, both the latter I actually use). I think it's safe to rule this out as well.

I was thinking about Spell Penetration (1487 is the set bonus value), though I'm not entirely sure. One can simply switch CP around to just accommodate for the extra Spell Penetration, so since people aren't running that many points into Spell Erosion anyways, so when taking points out they end up with about 18 points to play around with and put into other stats, which I think is quite a lot. Still feels a bit better than the previous stats, though.

Lastly, I was thinking about Critical Damage (about 4-5%). I think this would be a pretty fair stat to have, really; it doesn't buff the Daedroth at all, and with everyone running the Shadow Stone it's not a stat that would be too powerful. Not sure if there's actually a set bonus that grants this exact buff, though, so I'm a little wary of this as well.

All in all, I'm not entirely sure. I still think the Max Health bonus is pretty cool, to be honest, and it's kinda hard to swap the bonuses around with balance in mind. I'm okay with a change, really, but only as long as it doesn't make Maw of the Infernal completely meta and overbuff Sorcerers.

lassitershawn

Bherdani wrote: »

They already nerfed this set into the ground once when it became too OP. I doubt they would make the proposed change.

But, if they changed the first trait of one of the base monster sets, they should change all of them. Give us useful first traits for every set, I'm all for that.

I agree with this. Neri and Valkyn could also get a damage 1pc, healing taken/done could be changed to mag regen or HP, swarm mother could get a 1pc that isn't literally useless if you're trying to proc the 2pc...

Donnasnowheart_ESO

I'm personally for this but its not just Maw that needs this a great deal of monster helms need their 1pc redone.

lassitershawn

Donnasnowheart_ESO wrote: »

I'm personally for this but its not just Maw that needs this a great deal of monster helms need their 1pc redone.

Honestly you're right. Too many have useless healing taken/done or even HP recovery bonuses on the 1pc, neri and valkyn also have HP bonuses on DD sets. Valkyn is sometimes used for this reason but nerien eth is literally unused.

Emma_Overload

Magicka for the 1 pc makes the most sense.

Panelinha

KharnTheUndying

No, pets sorcs are already op in pve and pvp.

Huyen

Its designed to be a tankingset. I used it while solo as tank to get a bit extra dps. Eso wiki even defines it as a tanking set. Bloody sorcerers again...

code65536

First, give me an option to hide those damn daedroths.

Huyen wrote: »

Its designed to be a tankingset. I used it while solo as tank to get a bit extra dps. Eso wiki even defines it as a tanking set. Bloody sorcerers again...

It most certainly is not a tanking set. And if some random wiki says that it is, then whoever wrote that in the wiki is wrong. The 1p health bonus is a bit of a quirk of history. When monster sets were added to the game, all but two of the 1p bonuses were max health. It was just the default bonus. Actually, the two sets most likely to be worn by tanks (Blood Spawn and Engine Guardian) were the two that didn't have 1p health bonuses. Later sets used 1p bonuses that better fit the theme of the set, and some of the original sets got their 1p bonuses retroactively changed.

lassitershawn

code65536 wrote: »

First, give me an option to hide those damn daedroths.

Huyen wrote: »

Its designed to be a tankingset. I used it while solo as tank to get a bit extra dps. Eso wiki even defines it as a tanking set. Bloody sorcerers again...

It most certainly is not a tanking set. And if some random wiki says that it is, then whoever wrote that in the wiki is wrong. The 1p health bonus is a bit of a quirk of history. When monster sets were added to the game, all but two of the 1p bonuses were max health. It was just the default bonus. Actually, the two sets most likely to be worn by tanks (Blood Spawn and Engine Guardian) were the two that didn't have 1p health bonuses. Later sets used 1p bonuses that better fit the theme of the set, and some of the original sets got their 1p bonuses retroactively changed.

Pretty much this and other sets like valkyn and nerien eth have HP bonuses despite not being tank sets. I personally think they should all get damage 1pc at this point to maybe make them competitive with 2x crit, slime, or zaan. Rn 2x crit, slime, and zaan are very dominant in endgame content with occasional use of grothdaar and balorgh (for bursty fights).