Nightblade minor berserk

NightAngel690

Honesty, neither. If they do plan to remove minor berserk from a nb then they will have to remove it from wardens. If you think about it logically, it wouldn’t make sense to remove
It from one class and not the other.

Maulkin

Here's where I stand. PvE is unaffected really as you get that buff from your healer in the form of Combat Prayer. vMA is the only content where you'll miss the dmg and god dammit if people can't walk through this 4 year old content. Therefore it's kind of irrelevant for PvE.

In PvP, I don't really use the skill on my stamblade due to lack of bar space. Especially since they added the delay which makes it get dodged all too often. It's either that or a gap closer and the latter has more utility on open world. Arguably a must have skill in duels, but oh well.

Now on the magblade, I use the skill religiously of course and I'll feel the loss of Minor Berserk and I will QQ about it. But if we get compensated by giving the skill Major Sorcery instead (which will free us form Entropy and open up a slot) it will be a more palatable nerf. And if they combine it with couple of secs of snare immunity on Path, I'll be a happy bunny.

Maulkin

Minalan wrote: »

Really? Have you actually played a magnb lately? I have. Yesterday. Just a guess here, but I'm betting that you haven't.

I refuse to vote in this farce of a poll, and I won't be buying this expansion until I see exactly what they're doing on PTS.

To be fair the current state of magblade in PvP is bad due to mainly two things:

1) Abundance of spell projectile reflects and absorbs. A cancerous amount I would argue. Compounded by the complete lack of any non reflectable DoTs or delayed burst skills; like Curse, Purifying Light, Fletcher, Beetles, Burning Embers etc.

2) Lack of snare removal and short snare immunity.

...so adding or removing Minor Berskerk doesn't really make or break the class tbh. If this nerf leads to buffs in the necessary areas then magblade might be left in a better place.

InvictusApollo

Enough with these nerf threads already. This poll is so horendously biased that it doesn't even contain an option to disagree with OP.
Nighblades need minor berserk.

rabidmyers

no option for not having it removed? werid...

yeah they shouldn't remove any minor berserk at all

Insco851

Just relentless focus (stam)

Giving merciless major sorcery could be a start since most MNBs are running trash mag alliance pots for it. This will at least open up other potion options for the class.

Buff the projectile speed as well. You currently can’t hit a stam toon who has thumbs. It’s laughable.

bagon

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Enough with these nerf threads already. This poll is so horendously biased that it doesn't even contain an option to disagree with OP.
Nighblades need minor berserk.

Hey einstein, this isnt a nerf thread. You clearly didnt even read what i wrote. This nerf is already confirmed. Nice one.

psychotic13

I think stamnb should be nerfed, mag is pretty weak. But thats not how id do it. Minor beserk has always been the nightblades thing until warden came out, you cant strip that without good reason.

Nerftheforums

Just merciless resolve (mag)

Maulkin wrote: »

Here's where I stand. PvE is unaffected really as you get that buff from your healer in the form of Combat Prayer. vMA is the only content where you'll miss the dmg and god dammit if people can't walk through this 4 year old content. Therefore it's kind of irrelevant for PvE.

In PvP, I don't really use the skill on my stamblade due to lack of bar space. Especially since they added the delay which makes it get dodged all too often. It's either that or a gap closer and the latter has more utility on open world. Arguably a must have skill in duels, but oh well.

Now on the magblade, I use the skill religiously of course and I'll feel the loss of Minor Berserk and I will QQ about it. But if we get compensated by giving the skill Major Sorcery instead (which will free us form Entropy and open up a slot) it will be a more palatable nerf. And if they combine it with couple of secs of snare immunity on Path, I'll be a happy bunny.

I find using entropy/having sorcery on merciless extremely unhealthy for 2 reasons. In the first place, spell power pots and extremely good saving 2 bar slots and giving you 2 fundamental buffs. In the second place, major sorcery is already in the nb's kit, having the same buff applied by 2 different skills makes no sense. And removing it from sap essence would still keep the first point valid.

brandonv516

Just relentless focus (stam)

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Here's where I stand. PvE is unaffected really as you get that buff from your healer in the form of Combat Prayer. vMA is the only content where you'll miss the dmg and god dammit if people can't walk through this 4 year old content. Therefore it's kind of irrelevant for PvE.

In PvP, I don't really use the skill on my stamblade due to lack of bar space. Especially since they added the delay which makes it get dodged all too often. It's either that or a gap closer and the latter has more utility on open world. Arguably a must have skill in duels, but oh well.

Now on the magblade, I use the skill religiously of course and I'll feel the loss of Minor Berserk and I will QQ about it. But if we get compensated by giving the skill Major Sorcery instead (which will free us form Entropy and open up a slot) it will be a more palatable nerf. And if they combine it with couple of secs of snare immunity on Path, I'll be a happy bunny.

I find using entropy/having sorcery on merciless extremely unhealthy for 2 reasons. In the first place, spell power pots and extremely good saving 2 bar slots and giving you 2 fundamental buffs. In the second place, major sorcery is already in the nb's kit, having the same buff applied by 2 different skills makes no sense. And removing it from sap essence would still keep the first point valid.

As someone who uses PvP pots exclusively I hope they don't add a buff to Merciless.

I would much rather it be like Crystal Frags where you just have the secondary effect engage when the conditions are met.

Not having a buff attached to it means it costs less overall and is less time buffing.

That being said, the rumored burst heal attached to the secondary effect (bow) seems interesting.

Dunning_Kruger

Yes both morphs

I just hope ZoS finds a way to actually just nerf everyone that isn’t me; so I can finally charge a toll on the Cyrodiil bridge to afford my speed immovs.

Raammzzaa

bagon wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Enough with these nerf threads already. This poll is so horendously biased that it doesn't even contain an option to disagree with OP.
Nighblades need minor berserk.

Hey einstein, this isnt a nerf thread. You clearly didnt even read what i wrote. This nerf is already confirmed. Nice one.

I think the comments from Gina that any balance changes you are hearing about are still subject to change applies here too.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/465659/where-were-the-upcoming-class-changes-officially-released-at/p1

Maulkin

Nerftheforums wrote: »

I find using entropy/having sorcery on merciless extremely unhealthy for 2 reasons. In the first place, spell power pots and extremely good saving 2 bar slots and giving you 2 fundamental buffs. In the second place, major sorcery is already in the nb's kit, having the same buff applied by 2 different skills makes no sense. And removing it from sap essence would still keep the first point valid.

I'm confused as to how giving you the option to run tri-pots, or spell crit pots (health, magicka and spell crit) instead of spell power pots is "extremely unhealthy". Don't you feel that's an exaggeration? If you already use spell power pots religiously then Major Sorcery on Merciless is, at worst, useless. But hardly damaging.

Being able to get Major Brutality from Forward Momentum/Rally is what is enabling all these stamina builds to run weapon crit pots, and have the benefit of not only both major buffs but also the reactive burst heal from the pot. It's not a bad thing, c'mon!

I can see the point about Sap, but let's be honest: a damage buff that requires you to get into melee range and lose your element of surprise before it's granted to you, is really poor design for a Magblade. Bomb-blades don't use it (they use sell power pots for element of surprise), ranged casters don't use it, any build focusing on single target damage does not use it either. It's only useful for a minority of builds which is the AoE spammer in a large group. Removing Major Sorcery from Sap and giving to a skill that is a pre-buff and requires no target would make it more universally accessible. And therefore better.

And don't get me wrong I didn't say that removing Minor Berserk and granting Major Sorcery is overall better. It's still a nerf. I just said it makes the nerf more palatable.

kaithuzar

@Maulkin
I look at sap like dk’s inhale, it’s for us melee magblade brawler types that like to small man as I believe the heal has a limit to the number of people it hits.
Sure, it’s underwhelming, & sap tanks aren’t really viable anymore, but it adds a small layer of group utility to an otherwise single target player.

Juhasow

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Niether, there is a reason for all of this hyped up complainers. This will be the road for easier rotation and less buff management. There will be new balance that does not involve minor beserk anymore. This will be a good thing.

Umm no ? With or without minor berserk nightblades in PvE will have to keep grim focus 100% of a time to get spectral bow procs so they'll have excatly the same rotation as now.

JobooAGS

Yes both morphs

why not give beserk to power extraction/sap essence and major brutality/sorcery to grim focus and morphs?

Maulkin

kaithuzar wrote: »

@Maulkin
I look at sap like dk’s inhale, it’s for us melee magblade brawler types that like to small man as I believe the heal has a limit to the number of people it hits.
Sure, it’s underwhelming, & sap tanks aren’t really viable anymore, but it adds a small layer of group utility to an otherwise single target player.

I'm not judging sap in general. It has it uses, it's a good skill. I'm judging the reason to have a major sorcery buff on a skill that is only situational and used in a small minority of builds. Even melee brawler builds use merciless for the burst damage to secure kills. It's a universal skill.

My point has always been that if Magblade is to lose the Minor Berserk, moving Major Sorcery to Merciless is not the worst way to go about it in terms of offering a small compensation.

brandonv516 wrote: »

As someone who uses PvP pots exclusively I hope they don't add a buff to Merciless.

I would much rather it be like Crystal Frags where you just have the secondary effect engage when the conditions are met.

Not having a buff attached to it means it costs less overall and is less time buffing.

That being said, the rumored burst heal attached to the secondary effect (bow) seems interesting.

Reducing the cost is a bit meh. It already only costs 2.4k for 5-light wearing non-Bretons, and it's a 20s buff. You can half it to cost as much as Entropy and it'll make a difference of 120 drain per sec, which is nothing in PvP. It might however give magblade more sustain than other builds in PvE where such small changes matter and that might be problematic.

If the cost is removed altogether and it becomes a passive skill like Frags, that most likely means counting light attacks only from the bar where it's slotted. Which means fewer procs. I'm not sure that's desirable in terms of having more pressure. Along with the Minor Berskerk loss that will hurt a lot.

Having a burst heal would be interesting though, I'd like that. The more heals the better. Although ever since Strife got nerfed and both Force Pulse and Ele Weapon became better spammables, I was always in favour of converting at least one morph (Funnel Health) to a single target, unblockable, undodgeable, ranged, DoT + HoT. "Siphoning Health from the enemy dealing 3k damage and healing for 2k every 2 seconds for 10 seconds". Like a ranged Burning Embers but with higher cost and slightly less damage/damage heals. You could always pick Swallow Soul morph if you wanted the spammable version.

NyassaV

Just relentless focus (stam)

Stamblade already gets minor endurance from it so leave magblade alone

Insco851

Just relentless focus (stam)

brandonv516 wrote: »

As someone who uses PvP pots exclusively I hope they don't add a buff to Merciless.

I would much rather it be like Crystal Frags where you just have the secondary effect engage when the conditions are met.

Not having a buff attached to it means it costs less overall and is less time buffing.

That being said, the rumored burst heal attached to the secondary effect (bow) seems interesting.

Immove or tripots instantly buff Mnb heals and survivability. But inaccessible in the current state of the class for pvp. No room for entropy on the bar without dropping say syphoning (an added heal+sustain=pass) or Merciless (no procs to secure tough kills=pass)... Adding the major sorcery buff to merciless makes plenty sense.

The burst heal idea seems finicky at best with how slow the projectile is. You would probably be better off running reapers Mark for that huge heal+major berserk. You would effectively get the heal at the same point unless you waste the bow proc defensively.(still no guarentee for a heal if it’s based on landing/dmg).

If we are to get nerfed, at least let us use more competitive pots in return.

Aztlan

Neither. The stamblade kit is almost entirely single target, so it should hit harder than classes that excel in other ways.

Mayrael

Just relentless focus (stam)

Minalan wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Neither, unless magblade gets some significant fixes, then we'll see.

This obviously needs to happen, but NB single target damage is overtuned. The minor berserk buff is also one of the reason ganking is so OP.

Really? Have you actually played a magnb lately? I have. Yesterday. Just a guess here, but I'm betting that you haven't.

I refuse to vote in this farce of a poll, and I won't be buying this expansion until I see exactly what they're doing on PTS.

Well that are my thoughts to. If they will screw magblades once again I won't even bother with buying this parody of a game. Almost every single tool magblades had was nerfed or is broken:
1. Increased cost of Strife
2. Taken away minor vitality from it.
3. Increased cost on Grim Focus and morphs
4. Initial heal of healing ward taken away (it's most severe on magblades because of any other viable heal options)
5. Shade not forking as it should for more than a half a year.
6. Cloak being broken by:
- lightning heavy attacks, pets zaps.
7. Undo and morphs failing to work (with so bad mobility this skill was pretty useful on magblade)
8. Refreshing path lost its damage component.

...so yeah let's gut magblades even more! But hey we got some good news! ZOS is still unable to fix stuck in combat bug but they have time and resources to at least add new reskined mounts.

Heimpai

Just relentless focus (stam)

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Listen to these guys. It's not even a real nerf! You can still do the same amount of damage, just get minor berserk from somewhere else.

Oh look, the sorc class head cheerleader is here to tell us that we're fine because we can choose a monster set to do the same damage while losing whatever damage our current monster set used to give us ..

Umm thanks? I'd rather stick with balorgh and keep the minor berserk.

Since when have sorcs been able to enjoy juicy monster sets like Balorgh? You guys are so spoiled. We can't afford sets like that because we are so desperate for basic stats. Most sorcs now are running Mighty Chudan. MIGHTY CHUDAN. How's that for excitement?

Looks like you should visit alcasts site, though it won’t make up for incompetence

Iskiab

As much as people like blaming changes on pvp I’m pretty sure this change is purely due to PvE.

There were high score trials done with no magicka dps classes, bow stam were used instead. When stuff like that happens the devs will move fast and make changes.

I also think the devs are usually ahead of the general forum concensus since most people’s forum opinion seems at least 6 months behind the current reality. Let’s be honest, most of what you hear is people parroting what others have said who’ve never tested a thing in their lives.

The devs also have to balance around different settings so have a lot to juggle. Like for example people still say stamblades are OP. You have to balance around inexperienced pvpers who run around with no defense and are prone to getting ganked, where in reality stamblade’s underperforming in most pvp settings. I’d be surprised if the dev’s intent was to nerf stamblade in pvp.

Drako_Ei

Yes both morphs

Heimpai wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Listen to these guys. It's not even a real nerf! You can still do the same amount of damage, just get minor berserk from somewhere else.

Oh look, the sorc class head cheerleader is here to tell us that we're fine because we can choose a monster set to do the same damage while losing whatever damage our current monster set used to give us ..

Umm thanks? I'd rather stick with balorgh and keep the minor berserk.

Since when have sorcs been able to enjoy juicy monster sets like Balorgh? You guys are so spoiled. We can't afford sets like that because we are so desperate for basic stats. Most sorcs now are running Mighty Chudan. MIGHTY CHUDAN. How's that for excitement?

Looks like you should visit alcasts site, though it won’t make up for incompetence

Most magsorcs are using chudan now

brandonv516

Just relentless focus (stam)

Drako_Ei wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Listen to these guys. It's not even a real nerf! You can still do the same amount of damage, just get minor berserk from somewhere else.

Oh look, the sorc class head cheerleader is here to tell us that we're fine because we can choose a monster set to do the same damage while losing whatever damage our current monster set used to give us ..

Umm thanks? I'd rather stick with balorgh and keep the minor berserk.

Since when have sorcs been able to enjoy juicy monster sets like Balorgh? You guys are so spoiled. We can't afford sets like that because we are so desperate for basic stats. Most sorcs now are running Mighty Chudan. MIGHTY CHUDAN. How's that for excitement?

Looks like you should visit alcasts site, though it won’t make up for incompetence

Most magsorcs are using chudan now

Where is the poll for this? I would argue that many do, but most? It's a choice for those that do, not a necessity. We all fight for bar space.

Iskiab

Drako_Ei wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Listen to these guys. It's not even a real nerf! You can still do the same amount of damage, just get minor berserk from somewhere else.

Oh look, the sorc class head cheerleader is here to tell us that we're fine because we can choose a monster set to do the same damage while losing whatever damage our current monster set used to give us ..

Umm thanks? I'd rather stick with balorgh and keep the minor berserk.

Since when have sorcs been able to enjoy juicy monster sets like Balorgh? You guys are so spoiled. We can't afford sets like that because we are so desperate for basic stats. Most sorcs now are running Mighty Chudan. MIGHTY CHUDAN. How's that for excitement?

Looks like you should visit alcasts site, though it won’t make up for incompetence

Most magsorcs are using chudan now

Nice, someone made a thread about sorcs and I suggested it to save bar space because that’s what I do on my Warden. Maybe I helped.

HowlKimchi

Just relentless focus (stam)

Give the magicka morph major sorc?

Swiftfox_Bouncyface

Just relentless focus (stam)

Emma_Overload wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Listen to these guys. It's not even a real nerf! You can still do the same amount of damage, just get minor berserk from somewhere else.

How are you going to do that in pvp? Combat prayer?

Sure. Slimecraw is even easier.

So magblade which is already the worse class in PvP should have to make more sacrifices to compensate for nerfs when the the class is already borderline unplayable?

LOL, WHAT? Magblade is very far from the worst class in PvP. Some of the strongest players I meet are Magblades. They put out insane pressure while having access to some of the best defensive tools in the game.

Well that's because you're trash

InvictusApollo

Mayrael wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Neither, unless magblade gets some significant fixes, then we'll see.

This obviously needs to happen, but NB single target damage is overtuned. The minor berserk buff is also one of the reason ganking is so OP.

Really? Have you actually played a magnb lately? I have. Yesterday. Just a guess here, but I'm betting that you haven't.

I refuse to vote in this farce of a poll, and I won't be buying this expansion until I see exactly what they're doing on PTS.

Well that are my thoughts to. If they will screw magblades once again I won't even bother with buying this parody of a game. Almost every single tool magblades had was nerfed or is broken:
1. Increased cost of Strife
2. Taken away minor vitality from it.
3. Increased cost on Grim Focus and morphs
4. Initial heal of healing ward taken away (it's most severe on magblades because of any other viable heal options)
5. Shade not forking as it should for more than a half a year.
6. Cloak being broken by:
- lightning heavy attacks, pets zaps.
7. Undo and morphs failing to work (with so bad mobility this skill was pretty useful on magblade)
8. Refreshing path lost its damage component.

...so yeah let's gut magblades even more! But hey we got some good news! ZOS is still unable to fix stuck in combat bug but they have time and resources to at least add new reskined mounts.

You forgot about Spectral Bow nerf that made the projectile very easy to dodge.

InvictusApollo

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Neither, unless magblade gets some significant fixes, then we'll see.

This obviously needs to happen, but NB single target damage is overtuned. The minor berserk buff is also one of the reason ganking is so OP.

Really? Have you actually played a magnb lately? I have. Yesterday. Just a guess here, but I'm betting that you haven't.

I refuse to vote in this farce of a poll, and I won't be buying this expansion until I see exactly what they're doing on PTS.

Well that are my thoughts to. If they will screw magblades once again I won't even bother with buying this parody of a game. Almost every single tool magblades had was nerfed or is broken:
1. Increased cost of Strife
2. Taken away minor vitality from it.
3. Increased cost on Grim Focus and morphs
4. Initial heal of healing ward taken away (it's most severe on magblades because of any other viable heal options)
5. Shade not forking as it should for more than a half a year.
6. Cloak being broken by:
- lightning heavy attacks, pets zaps.
7. Undo and morphs failing to work (with so bad mobility this skill was pretty useful on magblade)
8. Refreshing path lost its damage component.

...so yeah let's gut magblades even more! But hey we got some good news! ZOS is still unable to fix stuck in combat bug but they have time and resources to at least add new reskined mounts.

You forgot about Spectral Bow nerf that made the projectile very easy to dodge.

HaruKamui wrote: »

Give the magicka morph major sorc?

I could live with that, although Minor Berserk is still better.