Big issue for ESO. New kind of PvP. Arena rated 2 vs 2 !

SunshinePL

I added few new points to guidelines. Give me more feedback and opinions guys.

Enzym3

We need PvP options we've asked for this for years and we still bloody want it so please just give it to us

Trancestor

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

2ndly if i really wanted to play WOW i would buy it

2ndly

SunshinePL

So I still waiting for ZENIMAX answer from my post. Do you guys read my idea and are you going to consider it as your plan on future ?

Dark_Lord_Kuro

It will end in 2v2v2

Dark_Lord_Kuro

May add the possibility to have team duel?
If you are grouped you the duel invite will be sent to the group leader and if he accept the whole group will enter the duel against the other group

SunshinePL

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

It will end in 2v2v2

2v2v2 will be small battelground and completely mess with no sense. Only 2vs2 or 3vs3 can be true fair arena rated where your skills are the most important. There can't be randomness like in the Cyrodil or battelgrounds ( 4 players vs 2 players).

Gretzel

SunshinePL wrote: »

Hey, here is a new idea for ZENIMAX to give us new kind of PvP:

Arena rated 2 vs 2.

Who played in World of Warcraft know that this is the most exited PvP in the world.
I am not talking about battelgrounds. It is something completely different.

You will create team with your friends, with team name. Fight in small arenas much more smaller than battelgrounds. There is no resurrections only one life per fight (only your friend can resurrect you : time should be longer than in Cyrodil).
You fight to get arena points. If your team win, you get arena points and go up in ranking, if you lose a fight, your team lose arena points and go down in the ranking. It could be new fresh content in ESO. So so much exited.

Guidelines:

- Small arenas and only 2 players vs 2 players, fight as a team. Only dead match mode.

- You fight for arena ranking points. If you win, you get arena ranking points and go up in the ranking, if you lose, your team lose arena ranking points and fall down in the ranking.

- There are not random fights, everything is pre-made ( you can play only with players from your team. Max 4 persons in one team for 2vs2, 6 persons in one team for 3vs3).

- How teams should be queued and how many arena ranking points get or lose. Example: team with rating 1000 will be queued with others teams with rating 700-1300. No with teams 2000. Other point: if team "A" with rating 1000, win with team rating 1300, team A will get much more arena ranking points for this win ( let's say 30 arena ranking points) than if they win with team with lower ranking 700 ( let's say 5 arena ranking points). Same rules for lost.

- Leaderboard with all teams result.

- Constrains. Let's do 10 min for solve a fight. If there are still 2 vs 2 alive. The winner will be team with more dmg done. It will pull out people ideas to create team consist of 2 pro healers or tanks.

- You get arena tokens (arena money) after each week summary in value depends of your ranking. (More fights doesn't mean more arena tokens. How many arena tokens you will get depends of your team ranking value).

- To get arena tokens (arena money) you need have minimum 15 arena fights in a week (7 days).

- If you will not fight minimum 15x in a week your team rating drop down in leaderboard (let's say - 200 arena ranking points).

- You can spend your arena tokens to buy: specific PvP sets, outfit, best potions...

- Consider 3 vs 3 ( there have to be different ranking of course)

The most important question for ZENIMAX right now. Do you guys read my idea and are you going to consider it as your plan on future ?

I'd be all for it. Had a lot of funs in 2s on WoW as a frost mage. I just had a lot of fun as a frost mage period. Would want 3s and 5s as well, those were great.

Jeremy

SunshinePL wrote: »

Hey, here is a new idea for ZENIMAX to give us new kind of PvP:

Arena rated 2 vs 2.

Who played in World of Warcraft know that this is the most exited PvP in the world.
I am not talking about battelgrounds. It is something completely different.

You will create team with your friends, with team name. Fight in small arenas much more smaller than battelgrounds. There is no resurrections only one life per fight (only your friend can resurrect you : time should be longer than in Cyrodil).
You fight to get arena points. If your team win, you get arena points and go up in ranking, if you lose a fight, your team lose arena points and go down in the ranking. It could be new fresh content in ESO. So so much exited.

Guidelines:

- Small arenas and only 2 players vs 2 players, fight as a team. Only dead match mode.

- You fight for arena ranking points. If you win, you get arena ranking points and go up in the ranking, if you lose, your team lose arena ranking points and fall down in the ranking.

- There are not random fights, everything is pre-made ( you can play only with players from your team. Max 4 persons in one team for 2vs2, 6 persons in one team for 3vs3).

- How teams should be queued and how many arena ranking points get or lose. Example: team with rating 1000 will be queued with others teams with rating 700-1300. No with teams 2000. Other point: if team "A" with rating 1000, win with team rating 1300, team A will get much more arena ranking points for this win ( let's say 30 arena ranking points) than if they win with team with lower ranking 700 ( let's say 5 arena ranking points). Same rules for lost.

- Leaderboard with all teams result.

- Constrains. Let's do 10 min for solve a fight. If there are still 2 vs 2 alive. The winner will be team with more dmg done. It will pull out people ideas to create team consist of 2 pro healers or tanks.

- You get arena tokens (arena money) after each week summary in value depends of your ranking. (More fights doesn't mean more arena tokens. How many arena tokens you will get depends of your team ranking value).

- To get arena tokens (arena money) you need have minimum 15 arena fights in a week (7 days).

- If you will not fight minimum 15x in a week your team rating drop down in leaderboard (let's say - 200 arena ranking points).

- You can spend your arena tokens to buy: specific PvP sets, outfit, best potions...

- Consider 3 vs 3 ( there have to be different ranking of course)

The most important question for ZENIMAX right now. Do you guys read my idea and are you going to consider it as your plan on future ?

I don't like your idea because it favors damage-oriented groups. If people want to put together a defensive set up to run out the clock that sounds a valid strategy to me and shouldn't be penalized.

Rukia541

BNOC wrote: »

WoWs most lucrative bracket was the 3v3, not 2v2.

2 v 2 in this game wouldn't work for the same reasons it's was never highly regarded in WoW:

1. Healers are too strong compared to a single DPS.
2. Significant burst is tied to certain classes so only a few classes could pull of a kill when a healer is present
3. Healers would just hug los and strafe in and out(You can't not have los either or there's no strategy)
4. Resurrecting would benefit one class more than others
5. And so on..

3 v 3 is the only manageable bracket as then you'd see 1H 2DPS which would be enough to coordinate a burst, but chances are you'd need a healing debuff in there that increments over time or games could go on for a long time - Especially if you're up against Speedy Gonzales who just legs it as soon as he's targetted.

Also, good luck 2 man DPSing through a healer and 2 stam dps HoT's stack.

I'd love arena, but it would be some serious work.

The only reason I am still subbed to WoW is for the arena and 2v2 is most certainly viable and more popular than 3v3 imo. 3v3 is for more serious structured pvp and harder to find groups for especially since there is no solo rank queue in that ancient ass game unfortunately so you're stuck to LFG.

I play arms/resto comp but any healer works really. I also go double rogue or rogue/dps monk with a friend and beat a ton of healer comps in 2k rating.

ESO self healing and survival is insane I have no idea how this would work. Pvp is already pretty broken here but I don't think it's meant to be balanced or taken seriously anyway. It can still be fun when you aren't against full meta cancer.

I suppose they can straight up just add dampening like WoW had to, at certain time intervals self healing gets reduced by % as the match goes on eventually forcing someone to finally die to dps lol.

There are definitely ways to make this work. Arena is awesome, best pvp.

therift

Every match would be warden tanks with stamblades running Guard. Boring.

SunshinePL

Jeremy wrote: »

I don't like your idea because it favors damage-oriented groups. If people want to put together a defensive set up to run out the clock that sounds a valid strategy to me and shouldn't be penalized.

Maybe you are right, but fights where we have 2x pro tanks / 2x pro healers, even 2x DD vs 2x pro tanks will be boring with not solve. We need have a fight solve, there can't be a draw.

Because we can't just ban pro tank or pro healer build and prohibited it. We need to show people that if they will not be able to kill players because the want have a fun with not killable builds/duets. They will lose an arena rated fight in this way.

It doesn't mean there will not be tough tanky guys or pro healers. But they need think about dps as well.

SunshinePL

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

May add the possibility to have team duel?
If you are grouped you the duel invite will be sent to the group leader and if he accept the whole group will enter the duel against the other group

This is interesting proposition. Arena rated 2vs2 is some kind of team duels, but you have official ranking where you can go up in ranking or go down. That why it is much more exited than just simply duel. You fight in special arenas as well, so nobody will disturb you. There should be some reward system like I proposed in my guidelines.

Tonnopesce

Considering the current meta it will be a1h pillow fight between tanks...
Or a 2sec oneshot inbalanced macro mess
No thank you

smoothscape

+ From me, along with thumbs up.

I'd love a 2x2 arena/area
Especially with a scoring board. Some classes will work better than other but that's just a matter of tweaking.
I hope ZOS will look into this.

SunshinePL

smoothscape wrote: »

+ From me, along with thumbs up.

I'd love a 2x2 arena/area
Especially with a scoring board. Some classes will work better than other but that's just a matter of tweaking.
I hope ZOS will look into this.

We have so many options in ESO, so many sets and skills. Arena rated games have a chance to be really nice balanced. That should be new fresh kind of PvP in ESO. It will be most exited PvP but not replace Cyrodil or Battelgrounds because in Arena Rated more fights - doesn't mean better or more reward.

tinythinker

Commancho wrote: »

I have been saying this for years - FFA (free for all) or 1vs1 duels with a smart leaderboard or mini-turnaments, map with rounded medium size arena (like this one in Oblivon) - and they could delete all other modes as they would be dead and forgotten. I know plenty of people who play exclusively TDM. I'm sure that ZOS has a data which modes are most popular. If people could choose random daily TDM then other modes would be not played at all xD

We actually have a 1v1 arena in Reaper's March for a PvE quest where you become the champion. That could be used as well to queue into for dueling if such a game mode was of interest to ZOS.

Iccotak

You missed something truly groundbreaking
ESO PvP Naval combat

SunshinePL

Interesting remark. Guys let's try to give ZOS more ideas into consideration conected with Arena Rated fights. Maybe how arenas should look like ? Or damge obstacles in arena. (Lions on chain or fire around). Maybe ideas with reward or other points of view ...

ToRelax

Rukia541 wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

WoWs most lucrative bracket was the 3v3, not 2v2.

2 v 2 in this game wouldn't work for the same reasons it's was never highly regarded in WoW:

1. Healers are too strong compared to a single DPS.
2. Significant burst is tied to certain classes so only a few classes could pull of a kill when a healer is present
3. Healers would just hug los and strafe in and out(You can't not have los either or there's no strategy)
4. Resurrecting would benefit one class more than others
5. And so on..

3 v 3 is the only manageable bracket as then you'd see 1H 2DPS which would be enough to coordinate a burst, but chances are you'd need a healing debuff in there that increments over time or games could go on for a long time - Especially if you're up against Speedy Gonzales who just legs it as soon as he's targetted.

Also, good luck 2 man DPSing through a healer and 2 stam dps HoT's stack.

I'd love arena, but it would be some serious work.

The only reason I am still subbed to WoW is for the arena and 2v2 is most certainly viable and more popular than 3v3 imo. 3v3 is for more serious structured pvp and harder to find groups for especially since there is no solo rank queue in that ancient ass game unfortunately so you're stuck to LFG.

I play arms/resto comp but any healer works really. I also go double rogue or rogue/dps monk with a friend and beat a ton of healer comps in 2k rating.

ESO self healing and survival is insane I have no idea how this would work. Pvp is already pretty broken here but I don't think it's meant to be balanced or taken seriously anyway. It can still be fun when you aren't against full meta cancer.

I suppose they can straight up just add dampening like WoW had to, at certain time intervals self healing gets reduced by % as the match goes on eventually forcing someone to finally die to dps lol.

There are definitely ways to make this work. Arena is awesome, best pvp.

Well I can tell you from a pure combat perspective, 3v3 works best in ESO.

Rake

ESO isnt WoW

SunshinePL

Rake wrote: »

ESO isnt WoW

Of course it is not. But this is only example, idea for new kind of PvP. I gave WoW as an example because I played this game and Arena Rated system is there really well done and exited. We could have something similar in ESO. Not exactly copy from WoW but this is the example what I want and what I am talking about in this post.

ATomiX96

Nah too many infinite sustain tanks, wont work and wont be fun.
Even with a dampening mechanic (basicly defile equivalent of wow) it would still result in 4 tanks hitting each other for 20 minutes until they cant heal anymore.
And dont bother with ranked in ESO, way too much rock, paper, scissors (or polarized matchups if you wanna say so) for that to be worth your time.
And lastly, its hard to monetize PvP so thats the a major NO from ZOS' side

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

nice idea but the game cant support proper 2v2 in order to give an equal or close to equal chances...read other complain threads about broken builds that can take on 4-6 players solo head on...imagine having 2 of those against you...no real chance...also since every1 is gona be like "nb" imagine 2 burstblades that can 1 shot a target in the next 3 seconds of start...cloak and repeat for the 2nd one...not really fun...so in order to have this we would need a full revamp on clasess or finally heed community cries and give all skills new effects that get turned on in pvp environment...so all this is a lot of work and who gona fund it?

SunshinePL

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

nice idea but the game cant support proper 2v2 in order to give an equal or close to equal chances...read other complain threads about broken builds that can take on 4-6 players solo head on...imagine having 2 of those against you...no real chance...also since every1 is gona be like "nb" imagine 2 burstblades that can 1 shot a target in the next 3 seconds of start...cloak and repeat for the 2nd one...not really fun...so in order to have this we would need a full revamp on clasess or finally heed community cries and give all skills new effects that get turned on in pvp environment...so all this is a lot of work and who gona fund it?

There is no game with100% balance
classes. If we can play in Cyrodil, battelgrounds, duels, we can have Arena Rated as well. Moreover we have so many sets and build options. Some configuration will be better in Cyro, different in battelgrounds and others in Arena Rated. Of course we can see in Cyro 2 players who can fight with 10 players and win. But this is not only because unbalanced classes, this this mainly because they have better skills and better build/sets configuration. Every one of us have possibility to have the same classes, skills, sets .

ATomiX96

SunshinePL wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

nice idea but the game cant support proper 2v2 in order to give an equal or close to equal chances...read other complain threads about broken builds that can take on 4-6 players solo head on...imagine having 2 of those against you...no real chance...also since every1 is gona be like "nb" imagine 2 burstblades that can 1 shot a target in the next 3 seconds of start...cloak and repeat for the 2nd one...not really fun...so in order to have this we would need a full revamp on clasess or finally heed community cries and give all skills new effects that get turned on in pvp environment...so all this is a lot of work and who gona fund it?

There is no game with100% balance
classes. If we can play in Cyrodil, battelgrounds, duels, we can have Arena Rated as well. Moreover we have so many sets and build options. Some configuration will be better in Cyro, different in battelgrounds and others in Arena Rated. Of course we can see in Cyro 2 players who can fight with 10 players and win. But this is not only because unbalanced classes, this this mainly because they have better skills and better build/sets configuration. Every one of us have possibility to have the same classes, skills, sets .

Nah dude, "competetive" and "arenas" dont work in an action-combat based MMORPG like ESO.
The problems are: no cooldowns on abilties, no constraints on what abilties and setups you can run,
therefore -> infinite sustain, tankiblity to the point where you can just tank two opponents with ease and many many more.
Just look at dueling "tournaments", how many rules they need to make an somewhat even playground just for 1v1s.

SunshinePL

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Nah dude, "competetive" and "arenas" dont work in an action-combat based MMORPG like ESO.
The problems are: no cooldowns on abilties, no constraints on what abilties and setups you can run,
therefore -> infinite sustain, tankiblity to the point where you can just tank two opponents with ease and many many more.
Just look at dueling "tournaments", how many rules they need to make an somewhat even playground just for 1v1s.

Okey I can see your point of view. You are right "Some constraints are necessary" . You can see it in my guidelines. " 10 min for fight solve, if 2vs2 still alive the winner team will be who deal more dmg. That will pull out people ideas to create 2x pro tank or pro healer teams. ( They can be though but mainly need think about DD).

Moreover, 2vs2 is much more balanced than 1vs1 duel tournament. Because even 1 DD will be not able to kill 1 tough guy. 2 DD will be able to kill him.

This is good moment to ask you. Do you guys have some remarks. What kind of constraints in addition, should be there in Arena Rated fights ?

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

ATomiX96 wrote: »

SunshinePL wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

nice idea but the game cant support proper 2v2 in order to give an equal or close to equal chances...read other complain threads about broken builds that can take on 4-6 players solo head on...imagine having 2 of those against you...no real chance...also since every1 is gona be like "nb" imagine 2 burstblades that can 1 shot a target in the next 3 seconds of start...cloak and repeat for the 2nd one...not really fun...so in order to have this we would need a full revamp on clasess or finally heed community cries and give all skills new effects that get turned on in pvp environment...so all this is a lot of work and who gona fund it?

There is no game with100% balance
classes. If we can play in Cyrodil, battelgrounds, duels, we can have Arena Rated as well. Moreover we have so many sets and build options. Some configuration will be better in Cyro, different in battelgrounds and others in Arena Rated. Of course we can see in Cyro 2 players who can fight with 10 players and win. But this is not only because unbalanced classes, this this mainly because they have better skills and better build/sets configuration. Every one of us have possibility to have the same classes, skills, sets .

Nah dude, "competetive" and "arenas" dont work in an action-combat based MMORPG like ESO.
The problems are: no cooldowns on abilties, no constraints on what abilties and setups you can run,
therefore -> infinite sustain, tankiblity to the point where you can just tank two opponents with ease and many many more.
Just look at dueling "tournaments", how many rules they need to make an somewhat even playground just for 1v1s.

^this...and I said that this game right now cant support 2v2 arena combats...I even gave examples of lame builds...imagine 2 tankplars meeting 2 dk tanks......yeah there is no diversity and 1st of all zos would need to make separate effects on skills that work only on pvp like most of the pvpers keep asking for and would make so much sense and no longer affect pvp and pve when changing stuff to make us run at each others throats...basically atomix said it right...without GCD and CD 2v2 competitive arena teams wont work...sure 3v3 might be and probably 4v4 or 5v5 but at that points its way 2 chaotic and honestly I never liked it even in wow...2v2 was my thing and somewhat 3v3 was enjoyable(until u met 2 ele shammy and a disc priest :V )

This is good moment to ask you. Do you guys have some remarks. What kind of constraints in addition, should be there in Arena Rated fights ?

I think we would need a whole new thread to answer this one in full...and honestly it wouldn't really make sense since we would like actual devs to see it and know its take into consideration...but 1 of the most important things...we must have lag/crash free and working matchmaking system to begin with

Sp1dHQ

Dear topic starter, you proposed a wonderful idea, me and my friends would love to see this game mode live. But as you see, the community of this game is completely stubborn. Ppl either dont want to accept new things, or don’t know anything about pvp mechanics. Ofc 2v2 no CP with a limited timer and no option for a draw woild provide and interesting and balnced experience. But ppl cant accept this, so I’d advise not bother on the forum. We will never get this feature.
Although I am waiting more for perfomance and server fix in pvp, the game is not ready for such a competitve game mode.

SunshinePL

Sp1dHQ wrote: »

Dear topic starter, you proposed a wonderful idea, me and my friends would love to see this game mode live. But as you see, the community of this game is completely stubborn. Ppl either dont want to accept new things, or don’t know anything about pvp mechanics. Ofc 2v2 no CP with a limited timer and no option for a draw woild provide and interesting and balnced experience. But ppl cant accept this, so I’d advise not bother on the forum. We will never get this feature.
Although I am waiting more for perfomance and server fix in pvp, the game is not ready for such a competitve game mode.

Thank you bro for a good word. ESO has many players and everyone can has own opinions. As you can see I have many optimistic answers, and many people would love new PvP arena rated, just few answers "No" just because don't like this idea.

There are also people who think it could be nice but can't works well in ESO because of something... I respect their opinions, and probably they are right. But I don't give up.

For example, I sow answer "we don't have cooldown on skills". Even though we don't have cooldown on skills in ESO our stamina/magicka source can be finished, and this is good point of view, instead cooldown.

Finally, instead of answers "No". I expect of you guys advices. Especially from people who believe in this idea, and who want to see it in ESO. I am trying to listen you guys and we need take into consideration rules, maybe constraints to put into Arena Rated in order to make this mode, more fair and have a sense in ESO.