Suprise Attack
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DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »To be honest, I actually believe that skill will be nerfed the next chapter.
Mostly bad players die fast through a nightblade and then they complain loudly and get what they want.
So, yes, please nerf surprise attack and give heavy armor an indirect buff once again.
That's exactly what we need!
Except stamblade is a direct cause of heavy armor meta. You simply can't wear medium armor against stamblade and their basically undodgeable skillset.
"Undodgeable".
Both incap and suprise attack have a tendency to ignore dodge roll for whatever reason.
Yeah, you don't roll in time.
Except I'm clearly still silenced from the dodge roll when the damage lands.
Then maybe you should time your dodge roll better?1 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Edited by geonsocal on March 27, 2019 7:25PMPVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
Ayastigi✭✭✭✭You all think you're better than you actually are. Most times when you die it is your fault but y'all are so deluded that you blame the skills instead of yourselves. Cc the night blade and combo them they will die.4
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DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭You all think you're better than you actually are. Most times when you die it is your fault but y'all are so deluded that you blame the skills instead of yourselves. Cc the night blade and combo them they will die.
But... that would mean taking responsibility for my own action! I couldn't claim my victimhood if I didn't blame somebody else!2 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »The major fracture debuff should only be applied if using “Surprise” Attack from stealth.
Y’know...Surprise!
Or removing the fracture altogether could work too.
This. No one other class has access to major fracture. Wardens do but it’s only 4 seconds. Stamblades get major fracture, major defile and minor berserk and 20% extra damage off of incap. My stamplar gets minor fracture. That’s fair.
These arguments only work if all classes were equally balanced in some capability but they clearly aren't because if they were DK wouldn't be the best Tanks and Templar wouldn't be the best healers. Are you going to nerf them down also? Are you going to rebalance the classes so that they are all equally viable Tanks/Healers/DPS?
No because you have no idea about balance at all and just like to complain.
When talking stam, templars are not the best healers.
Stamblade has been hugely lopsided in its overloaded ability while magblade has been down because its version is less and it has worse heals while cloaked and less mobility/root snare counter into cloak. It would be as if HTD or BOL worked better on a stamplar thsn on a magplar. The NB class is just terribly lopsided to the stam variety of ganking.
Really should add root snare immunity to cloak and double the cost, then suppress heals to match the DOT suppression and auto crit should be removed. Remove major fracture from surprise attack. Add minor to both magicka and stam morph to applicable resist, increase major resist buff duration to the passives. Incap then either needs defile or increased damage to target, not both.
Basically need a way to shift more power to magblade and reduce utility to stamblade and give both more staying power to be competitive in group play such as battlegrounds neither currently are great at for a sacrifice to just ganking.
When talking balance, you balance with the whole game in mind, something you're failing to do. Let's go ahead and add Root/Snare immunity to cloak and double the cost, while also surpressing HoTs. Stamblade is now completely screwed as not only did you nerf their healing, you nerfed their only real form of in class survivability on top of reducing their damage to be more on par to Stamplar or Stamden, both of which also offer more utility and better overall survivability to NB even with an unnerfed Cloak, accomplishing nothing but making those two classes infinitely better options than Stamblade and considering that NB Tanks/Healers are both inferior to Warden and Templar Tanks/Healers, it just puts NB as a whole back as one of the worst classes in the game.
It's just awful suggestions that have 0 critical thinking on the overall impact of the game as a whole, which is honestly the problem with the majority of suggestion on these forums. Everyone only focuses on 1 single aspect of the game and tries to "balance" that aspect without thinking of the repercussions of that change in the grand scheme of things.
It's why I also suggested buffing the duration of the passive as part of something to raise their survivability. There needs to be more still for magicka NBs then on healing
The lack of critical thinking is from people not realizing in battlegrounds in a group effort, people dont want NBs on their team as it's a 1 trick pony, and that 1 trick doesn't work on a good group of players and leaves teammates shorthanded. You cant give buffs to address that along with leaving the ability to cloak as often, cause major fracture, major defile, maim, off balance , and have vulnerability damage boost to the stunned target out of stealth in 3 GCDs with a guaranteed crit. Its majorly overloaded in its capabilities coming out of cloak.
The duration increase of Shadow Barrier is meaningless since NB already gets 100% uptime (or damn well close to it) because of Surprise Attack already. It wouldn't do anything to help them that they don't already have. You removing Healing while cloaked further screws NB since it doesn't have burst healing capabilities like the other classes so it does the exact opposite of trying to make NB useful by making them even more of a liability. How tf do you think suppressing heals on a class that's healing comes primarily from HoTs would be a good idea is beyond me.
You're also contradicting yourself. If the fact that them being majorly overloaded coming out of Cloak doesn't work on good players, despite the Major Fracture, Major Defile, Maim, Off Balance, amd Vulnerability boost, doesn't that mean the class isn't a problem? It doesn't work despite all that but you would still nerf them, your logic is flawed.
If its always up (it's not when you are not on the offensive BTW) then what exactly is it the other classes on stam have NBs dont? DKs and Wardens are all I cam think of with defenses beyond that.
And I'm not contradicting myself. You're just too myopic to see someone who wants the class to be more well rounded rather than sitting there looking for new players or people otherwise with their guard down.
I'm sorry, what? August 2018Well, I was going by the pretense of the revisions I made to NB that I posted earlier in the thread.
Assassination:
Soul Harvest: Add a 2 second Silence effect to enemies hit by this ability. Loses out on the Ultimate Regen bonuses.
Assassin's Blade: Moved to the 3rd skill in the skill line to make way for Veiled Strike to come to Assassination.
Blur: Moved to Shadow Line. Minor Resolve/Ward added to base effect. Morph options are to deal damage to enemies after a successful dodge or after casting, the next ability you use is free.
Mark Target: Reworked the skill entirely and moved to Siphoning Skill Line to make room for Cripple. MT now provides Minor Lifesteal, with Morphs applying Minor Magic Steal or Major Maim for a few seconds upon activation. Removed Major Fracture/Breech as well as the burst heal from it and greatly reduced the cost to be around the 1200 range. No longer reveals invisible enemies but I'll explain that later.
Master Assassin: Changed into just a passive buff for having an Assassination ability slotted. Speed Boost from Concealed Weapon gets placed here as well.
Executioner: Applies on activation of an Assassination ability. 1 second CD.
Shadow:
Consuming Darkness: Does damage as a base effect. 1 morph follows the NB, while the other has increased range and duration.
Veiled Strike: Moved to Assassination. Concealed Weapon now applies Major Breech instead of speed boost in stealth.
Shadow Cloak: Remove invisibility as an effect entirely. Tank heal becomes the new base effect with 1 morph turning it into a Burst Heal with a small damage shield while the other extends the duration of the HoT + Minor Protection.
Path of Darkness: Now has a synergy for some extra damage. Twisting Path will now scale on Max Health and apply Minor Fracture/Breech with the synergy instead of extra damage.
Fear: Changed into a Mind bend abilities that draws enemies towards the NB. One morph remains a fear effect while the other gets Minor Maim.
Dark Shade: Roots enemies hit by the AoE.
Siphoning:
Soul Siphon: Reduced cost
Cripple: Moved to Assassination for Mark Target. Debilitate is now a Stamina Morph. Loses resource return effect.
Shrewd Offering: Applies a HoT effect to the Target
Siphoning Strikes: Heavy attacks restore more resources while active.
Power Drain: Heal applied as base effect. Power Extraction gets a radius increase while Sap Essence refunds some of the cost per enemy hit.
With the loss of Cloak as a defense mechanism, NB would need to supplement its survivability elsewhere, such as with my reworked Mark Target, which provide Minor Lifesteal and Major Maim. The root effect, being tied into the Dark Shade Morph when Shadow Image is the preferred PvP morph also circumvents the potential abuse of root spam on NB. Of course, since every DPS skill is now mostly located in the Assassin Tree as well as the changes to the passives in that tree, a nerf would be required somewhere, which would most likely come at a 10% nerf to the damage buff from Death Stroke and morphs (so instead of a 20% damage increase, you get a 10%), which should, in theory, be enough to keep NB damage in check. These changes are also an indirect nerf to Magblade since Cripple is no longer in Siphoning and would require them to use Funnel for the Magicka Flood passive and lower their DPS slightly more as a result, allowing Sorcs to at least have a chance to be included in trials again.
While some might not like the changes, I felt they were pretty balanced, all things considered. August 2018What if, on top of each class being able to perform the Tank role in its own way, we had gear set that were better suited for certain classes to Tank/Heal with, without being completely useless for other class/role combinations. It would require a complete reworking of set bonuses but that shouldn't be a problem considering the sheer amount of lackluster sets in the game anyways.
Going by the premise that:
DK = Mitigation Tank
Templar = Health Tank
NB = Debuff Tank
Sorc = Shield Tank
Warden = Buff Tank
Let's rework Eternal Warrior to be functionally good for a Health Based Tank.The 2-4Pc can remain the same but the 5th piece gets changed into this.
When your health is above 50%, nearby allies (capped at 6) are granted Minor Courage, increasing their Weapon/Spell Damage by 179. When your Health drops below 50%, nearby allies are granted a Damage Shield equal to 30% of your max health and gain Major Heroism while the Damage Shield remains. Increase Max Health over the current Healing Received to further help the Health Tank.
This rework would allow all tanks to run it but something like a High Health Templar Tank would potentially get the most mileage out of it because, not only would it be much more difficult for them to get below the 50% range and lose the Minor Courage Buff but if it does fall below that threshold, the damage shield it grants would be much higher on them than on other Tanks. This is sort of an extreme example since clearly the entire scenario would be reliant on Templar Health Tanks being viable things in the 1st place, which they currently aren't but it's just a possible suggestion to help with diversity. Also, let's face it Eternal Warrior could use a rework anyways since it's just so bad
I'm Sorry, What?
I'M SORRY, WHAT?
WTF ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING? I have been advocating for balanced changes for YEARS now constantly updating and suggesting improvements on balance in literally every single area of the game, from Tanking to Healing, from set bonuses to racial passives, from Oblivion to Aetherius but you have the AUDACITY to accuse me of being myopic when you yourself only focus on Stamblade and completely disregard everything else like Stamplar's group utility via PotL, StamSorc's Cleave Damage superiority, StamDK's sheer bulk, or Stamden's balance of all those traits, is pathetic and the saddest thing I've seen on these forums in a long time.
It's this mentality that has caused so many needless nerfs to class defining skills and I will NOT stand for it, just like I have been doing for years. Get back to me when you can actually argue with facts and not baseless strawman arguments or false accusations.Edited by Silver_Strider on March 28, 2019 2:56AMArgonian forever4 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »The major fracture debuff should only be applied if using “Surprise” Attack from stealth.
Y’know...Surprise!
Or removing the fracture altogether could work too.
This. No one other class has access to major fracture. Wardens do but it’s only 4 seconds. Stamblades get major fracture, major defile and minor berserk and 20% extra damage off of incap. My stamplar gets minor fracture. That’s fair.
These arguments only work if all classes were equally balanced in some capability but they clearly aren't because if they were DK wouldn't be the best Tanks and Templar wouldn't be the best healers. Are you going to nerf them down also? Are you going to rebalance the classes so that they are all equally viable Tanks/Healers/DPS?
No because you have no idea about balance at all and just like to complain.
Lol. Stamplar healer that’s a good one. Stamina Templar’s and stamina NBs have exactly the same access to healing. In fact you’re the one who knows nothing but nice try. Stambalde main detected.
I'm referring to Templar as a whole, not Stamplar but go ahead and keep trying to make a Strawman argument, it just means that less people listen to you as they realize how utter ridiculous your arguments actually are.
I love when people try to play tough forum warrior lol. You can’t talk about templar as a whole, just like you can’t talk about nightblade as a whole. Stamblades are one of the strongest classes in the game in PvP rn. Magblades are the weakest. It would be dumb to try and talk about the class as a whole when you’ve got such a gap between the specs. Similarly magplars are the strongest healers in the game. Stamplars have access to the same heals as any other stamina class, and have less healing than options than stamina warden. Even stamina DK has major mending and thus has stronger heals than stamplar. But please, continue insulting me as proof that you’re right, it makes you look real good.2 -
mayasunrising✭✭✭✭✭We cant exactly vigor you to death.
Oh there's got to be a set out there that causes damage to an enemy when you heal yourself or an ally. LOL. Theory crafters! We need you ASAP.
"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ♥ Anaïs Nin
“There’s a difference between wanting to be looked at and wanting to be seen." ♥ Amanda Palmer
“A game is an opportunity to focus our energy, with relentless optimism, at something we’re good at (or getting better at) and enjoy. In other words, gameplay is the direct emotional opposite of depression.” ♥ Jane McGonigal
“They'll tell you you're too loud, that you need to wait your turn and ask the right people for permission. Do it anyway." ♥ Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez0 -
mayasunrising✭✭✭✭✭I think when I first started pvp in this game, NBs would shred me, and TBH I hear that sound incap makes and it puts my nerves on edge. LOL But slowly I learned how to either counter it or avoid it all together. I'd say at this point I survive the attack (or avoid it all together) more often than not. I personally feel fighting different classes teaches us different skills. Fighting some classes is about flat out technical know how (for me DKs). NBs have taught me the equivalent of pvp street saavy. Don't stand in an open field alone. Hold block on flags. Throw Inner Light on my bar. Hide when out in the open. Run hurricane when fighting in open spaces. etc, etc.
For perspective, I'm not what I would call and amazing pvper. Maybe middling to good. And I'm playing essentially a sorc glass canon.
"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ♥ Anaïs Nin
“There’s a difference between wanting to be looked at and wanting to be seen." ♥ Amanda Palmer
“A game is an opportunity to focus our energy, with relentless optimism, at something we’re good at (or getting better at) and enjoy. In other words, gameplay is the direct emotional opposite of depression.” ♥ Jane McGonigal
“They'll tell you you're too loud, that you need to wait your turn and ask the right people for permission. Do it anyway." ♥ Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez0 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭mayasunrising wrote: »I think when I first started pvp in this game, NBs would shred me, and TBH I hear that sound incap makes and it puts my nerves on edge. LOL But slowly I learned how to either counter it or avoid it all together. I'd say at this point I survive the attack (or avoid it all together) more often than not. I personally feel fighting different classes teaches us different skills. Fighting some classes is about flat out technical know how (for me DKs). NBs have taught me the equivalent of pvp street saavy. Don't stand in an open field alone. Hold block on flags. Throw Inner Light on my bar. Hide when out in the open. Run hurricane when fighting in open spaces. etc, etc.
For perspective, I'm not what I would call and amazing pvper. Maybe middling to good. And I'm playing essentially a sorc glass canon.
I simply went out and fought players better than me, then chatted with them sometimes. Now im lucky to be a test subject from a great player, with infinite sets and is a genius with theory crafting. I have to counter an absurb number of debuffs and set procs.0 -
Kikke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Funny how NBs did not mind at all when their whining nerfed sorcs. Now that they have become the target they cannot umderstand why. Lol.Cleared Trials:
- vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
-Someone said it, I guess.1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There were nerf sorc threads? NB’s not overpowered. Unless there are 2 NBs I don’t worry about getting ganked. I’d look at getting pvp gear and don’t play in the CP campaign if you’re under 700 CPs.Edited by Iskiab on March 28, 2019 10:38AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »The major fracture debuff should only be applied if using “Surprise” Attack from stealth.
Y’know...Surprise!
Or removing the fracture altogether could work too.
This. No one other class has access to major fracture. Wardens do but it’s only 4 seconds. Stamblades get major fracture, major defile and minor berserk and 20% extra damage off of incap. My stamplar gets minor fracture. That’s fair.
These arguments only work if all classes were equally balanced in some capability but they clearly aren't because if they were DK wouldn't be the best Tanks and Templar wouldn't be the best healers. Are you going to nerf them down also? Are you going to rebalance the classes so that they are all equally viable Tanks/Healers/DPS?
No because you have no idea about balance at all and just like to complain.
When talking stam, templars are not the best healers.
Stamblade has been hugely lopsided in its overloaded ability while magblade has been down because its version is less and it has worse heals while cloaked and less mobility/root snare counter into cloak. It would be as if HTD or BOL worked better on a stamplar thsn on a magplar. The NB class is just terribly lopsided to the stam variety of ganking.
Really should add root snare immunity to cloak and double the cost, then suppress heals to match the DOT suppression and auto crit should be removed. Remove major fracture from surprise attack. Add minor to both magicka and stam morph to applicable resist, increase major resist buff duration to the passives. Incap then either needs defile or increased damage to target, not both.
Basically need a way to shift more power to magblade and reduce utility to stamblade and give both more staying power to be competitive in group play such as battlegrounds neither currently are great at for a sacrifice to just ganking.
When talking balance, you balance with the whole game in mind, something you're failing to do. Let's go ahead and add Root/Snare immunity to cloak and double the cost, while also surpressing HoTs. Stamblade is now completely screwed as not only did you nerf their healing, you nerfed their only real form of in class survivability on top of reducing their damage to be more on par to Stamplar or Stamden, both of which also offer more utility and better overall survivability to NB even with an unnerfed Cloak, accomplishing nothing but making those two classes infinitely better options than Stamblade and considering that NB Tanks/Healers are both inferior to Warden and Templar Tanks/Healers, it just puts NB as a whole back as one of the worst classes in the game.
It's just awful suggestions that have 0 critical thinking on the overall impact of the game as a whole, which is honestly the problem with the majority of suggestion on these forums. Everyone only focuses on 1 single aspect of the game and tries to "balance" that aspect without thinking of the repercussions of that change in the grand scheme of things.
It's why I also suggested buffing the duration of the passive as part of something to raise their survivability. There needs to be more still for magicka NBs then on healing
The lack of critical thinking is from people not realizing in battlegrounds in a group effort, people dont want NBs on their team as it's a 1 trick pony, and that 1 trick doesn't work on a good group of players and leaves teammates shorthanded. You cant give buffs to address that along with leaving the ability to cloak as often, cause major fracture, major defile, maim, off balance , and have vulnerability damage boost to the stunned target out of stealth in 3 GCDs with a guaranteed crit. Its majorly overloaded in its capabilities coming out of cloak.
The duration increase of Shadow Barrier is meaningless since NB already gets 100% uptime (or damn well close to it) because of Surprise Attack already. It wouldn't do anything to help them that they don't already have. You removing Healing while cloaked further screws NB since it doesn't have burst healing capabilities like the other classes so it does the exact opposite of trying to make NB useful by making them even more of a liability. How tf do you think suppressing heals on a class that's healing comes primarily from HoTs would be a good idea is beyond me.
You're also contradicting yourself. If the fact that them being majorly overloaded coming out of Cloak doesn't work on good players, despite the Major Fracture, Major Defile, Maim, Off Balance, amd Vulnerability boost, doesn't that mean the class isn't a problem? It doesn't work despite all that but you would still nerf them, your logic is flawed.
If its always up (it's not when you are not on the offensive BTW) then what exactly is it the other classes on stam have NBs dont? DKs and Wardens are all I cam think of with defenses beyond that.
And I'm not contradicting myself. You're just too myopic to see someone who wants the class to be more well rounded rather than sitting there looking for new players or people otherwise with their guard down.
I'm sorry, what? August 2018Well, I was going by the pretense of the revisions I made to NB that I posted earlier in the thread.
Assassination:
Soul Harvest: Add a 2 second Silence effect to enemies hit by this ability. Loses out on the Ultimate Regen bonuses.
Assassin's Blade: Moved to the 3rd skill in the skill line to make way for Veiled Strike to come to Assassination.
Blur: Moved to Shadow Line. Minor Resolve/Ward added to base effect. Morph options are to deal damage to enemies after a successful dodge or after casting, the next ability you use is free.
Mark Target: Reworked the skill entirely and moved to Siphoning Skill Line to make room for Cripple. MT now provides Minor Lifesteal, with Morphs applying Minor Magic Steal or Major Maim for a few seconds upon activation. Removed Major Fracture/Breech as well as the burst heal from it and greatly reduced the cost to be around the 1200 range. No longer reveals invisible enemies but I'll explain that later.
Master Assassin: Changed into just a passive buff for having an Assassination ability slotted. Speed Boost from Concealed Weapon gets placed here as well.
Executioner: Applies on activation of an Assassination ability. 1 second CD.
Shadow:
Consuming Darkness: Does damage as a base effect. 1 morph follows the NB, while the other has increased range and duration.
Veiled Strike: Moved to Assassination. Concealed Weapon now applies Major Breech instead of speed boost in stealth.
Shadow Cloak: Remove invisibility as an effect entirely. Tank heal becomes the new base effect with 1 morph turning it into a Burst Heal with a small damage shield while the other extends the duration of the HoT + Minor Protection.
Path of Darkness: Now has a synergy for some extra damage. Twisting Path will now scale on Max Health and apply Minor Fracture/Breech with the synergy instead of extra damage.
Fear: Changed into a Mind bend abilities that draws enemies towards the NB. One morph remains a fear effect while the other gets Minor Maim.
Dark Shade: Roots enemies hit by the AoE.
Siphoning:
Soul Siphon: Reduced cost
Cripple: Moved to Assassination for Mark Target. Debilitate is now a Stamina Morph. Loses resource return effect.
Shrewd Offering: Applies a HoT effect to the Target
Siphoning Strikes: Heavy attacks restore more resources while active.
Power Drain: Heal applied as base effect. Power Extraction gets a radius increase while Sap Essence refunds some of the cost per enemy hit.
With the loss of Cloak as a defense mechanism, NB would need to supplement its survivability elsewhere, such as with my reworked Mark Target, which provide Minor Lifesteal and Major Maim. The root effect, being tied into the Dark Shade Morph when Shadow Image is the preferred PvP morph also circumvents the potential abuse of root spam on NB. Of course, since every DPS skill is now mostly located in the Assassin Tree as well as the changes to the passives in that tree, a nerf would be required somewhere, which would most likely come at a 10% nerf to the damage buff from Death Stroke and morphs (so instead of a 20% damage increase, you get a 10%), which should, in theory, be enough to keep NB damage in check. These changes are also an indirect nerf to Magblade since Cripple is no longer in Siphoning and would require them to use Funnel for the Magicka Flood passive and lower their DPS slightly more as a result, allowing Sorcs to at least have a chance to be included in trials again.
While some might not like the changes, I felt they were pretty balanced, all things considered. August 2018What if, on top of each class being able to perform the Tank role in its own way, we had gear set that were better suited for certain classes to Tank/Heal with, without being completely useless for other class/role combinations. It would require a complete reworking of set bonuses but that shouldn't be a problem considering the sheer amount of lackluster sets in the game anyways.
Going by the premise that:
DK = Mitigation Tank
Templar = Health Tank
NB = Debuff Tank
Sorc = Shield Tank
Warden = Buff Tank
Let's rework Eternal Warrior to be functionally good for a Health Based Tank.The 2-4Pc can remain the same but the 5th piece gets changed into this.
When your health is above 50%, nearby allies (capped at 6) are granted Minor Courage, increasing their Weapon/Spell Damage by 179. When your Health drops below 50%, nearby allies are granted a Damage Shield equal to 30% of your max health and gain Major Heroism while the Damage Shield remains. Increase Max Health over the current Healing Received to further help the Health Tank.
This rework would allow all tanks to run it but something like a High Health Templar Tank would potentially get the most mileage out of it because, not only would it be much more difficult for them to get below the 50% range and lose the Minor Courage Buff but if it does fall below that threshold, the damage shield it grants would be much higher on them than on other Tanks. This is sort of an extreme example since clearly the entire scenario would be reliant on Templar Health Tanks being viable things in the 1st place, which they currently aren't but it's just a possible suggestion to help with diversity. Also, let's face it Eternal Warrior could use a rework anyways since it's just so bad
I'm Sorry, What?
I'M SORRY, WHAT?
WTF ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING? I have been advocating for balanced changes for YEARS now constantly updating and suggesting improvements on balance in literally every single area of the game, from Tanking to Healing, from set bonuses to racial passives, from Oblivion to Aetherius but you have the AUDACITY to accuse me of being myopic when you yourself only focus on Stamblade and completely disregard everything else like Stamplar's group utility via PotL, StamSorc's Cleave Damage superiority, StamDK's sheer bulk, or Stamden's balance of all those traits, is pathetic and the saddest thing I've seen on these forums in a long time.
It's this mentality that has caused so many needless nerfs to class defining skills and I will NOT stand for it, just like I have been doing for years. Get back to me when you can actually argue with facts and not baseless strawman arguments or false accusations.
"Yeah I'm totally sorry I didn't search and read all your post history. Really. " FTMFL
In the conversation now, you are in fact, just reacting to someone suggesting getting away from the class being very much built around the overloaded abilities. No one cares about your forum warrior history but you. And you'll be lucky if they even consider shifting power at all on NB when they come to nerf it even to the degree I hope for. Make no mistake; this will be at the top of the list and coming.Edited by technohic on March 28, 2019 11:07AM1 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yea well it does work better than a wet noodle.
Seriously. Did you get tired of complaining about snipe, incap, cloak and just has to find a new thing to complain about?
What skills should a nightblade use to kill you? You know that's the point of PvP right? To kill other players before you get killed? We cant exactly vigor you to death.
Implying Surprise attack isn´t overtuned.......
All this complaining from someone who constantly defends bleeds and werewolf. You and others won't be happy until every skill from Nb is nerfed.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Funny how NBs did not mind at all when their whining nerfed sorcs. Now that they have become the target they cannot umderstand why. Lol.
So is it time for more nerf sorc threads?
Is balance all about I got nerfed so you should get nerfed too?
Trust me more than just NB made nerf sorc threads.0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »The major fracture debuff should only be applied if using “Surprise” Attack from stealth.
Y’know...Surprise!
Or removing the fracture altogether could work too.
This. No one other class has access to major fracture. Wardens do but it’s only 4 seconds. Stamblades get major fracture, major defile and minor berserk and 20% extra damage off of incap. My stamplar gets minor fracture. That’s fair.
These arguments only work if all classes were equally balanced in some capability but they clearly aren't because if they were DK wouldn't be the best Tanks and Templar wouldn't be the best healers. Are you going to nerf them down also? Are you going to rebalance the classes so that they are all equally viable Tanks/Healers/DPS?
No because you have no idea about balance at all and just like to complain.
Lol. Stamplar healer that’s a good one. Stamina Templar’s and stamina NBs have exactly the same access to healing. In fact you’re the one who knows nothing but nice try. Stambalde main detected.
I'm referring to Templar as a whole, not Stamplar but go ahead and keep trying to make a Strawman argument, it just means that less people listen to you as they realize how utter ridiculous your arguments actually are.
I love when people try to play tough forum warrior lol. You can’t talk about templar as a whole, just like you can’t talk about nightblade as a whole. Stamblades are one of the strongest classes in the game in PvP rn. Magblades are the weakest. It would be dumb to try and talk about the class as a whole when you’ve got such a gap between the specs. Similarly magplars are the strongest healers in the game. Stamplars have access to the same heals as any other stamina class, and have less healing than options than stamina warden. Even stamina DK has major mending and thus has stronger heals than stamplar. But please, continue insulting me as proof that you’re right, it makes you look real good.
Only an insult cause its true. You're still trying to make a strawman because YOU can't look at classes as a whole, hell you can't even look at Stamplar and see they have Minor Mending and Minor Protection naturally thru passives and while Stamden has better Healing than Stamplar, they're both still better than Stamblade healing. You do not balance a game without taking into consideration everything a class has in every aspect of the game and adjust them in accordance to other classes and what they offer. My first quote attempted to do exactly that by adjusting NB in ALL areas and while that quote is dated now, that's the type of mentality that it takes to balance a class properly. It's entirely possible to look at a class as a whole, you just can't do it.Edited by Silver_Strider on March 28, 2019 12:40PMArgonian forever0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Yea well it does work better than a wet noodle.
Seriously. Did you get tired of complaining about snipe, incap, cloak and just has to find a new thing to complain about?
What skills should a nightblade use to kill you? You know that's the point of PvP right? To kill other players before you get killed? We cant exactly vigor you to death.
Implying Surprise attack isn´t overtuned.......
All this complaining from someone who constantly defends bleeds and werewolf. You and others won't be happy until every skill from Nb is nerfed.
I think stamblade is a bit overtuned at the moment and could use some adjustments, while magblade could use some help to get back on their feet again, that´s all.
And I defend certain aspects of the werewolf toolkit. One of those things is their damage output (which has been directly and indirectly nerfed for several patches since almost a year back), where bleed damage serves as an essential part of their damage. I would rather see ZOS adjusting bleed damage from each individual source over a global nerf to all bleed damage (since global nerfs/adjustments rarely end up being that good). Other aspects of the werewolf toolkit, such as their self-heal, I wouldn´t mind seeing adjustments to (since I think werewolf should be about damage, not being a 40k HP meatshield with a ridicilous selfheal).0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »The major fracture debuff should only be applied if using “Surprise” Attack from stealth.
Y’know...Surprise!
Or removing the fracture altogether could work too.
This. No one other class has access to major fracture. Wardens do but it’s only 4 seconds. Stamblades get major fracture, major defile and minor berserk and 20% extra damage off of incap. My stamplar gets minor fracture. That’s fair.
These arguments only work if all classes were equally balanced in some capability but they clearly aren't because if they were DK wouldn't be the best Tanks and Templar wouldn't be the best healers. Are you going to nerf them down also? Are you going to rebalance the classes so that they are all equally viable Tanks/Healers/DPS?
No because you have no idea about balance at all and just like to complain.
When talking stam, templars are not the best healers.
Stamblade has been hugely lopsided in its overloaded ability while magblade has been down because its version is less and it has worse heals while cloaked and less mobility/root snare counter into cloak. It would be as if HTD or BOL worked better on a stamplar thsn on a magplar. The NB class is just terribly lopsided to the stam variety of ganking.
Really should add root snare immunity to cloak and double the cost, then suppress heals to match the DOT suppression and auto crit should be removed. Remove major fracture from surprise attack. Add minor to both magicka and stam morph to applicable resist, increase major resist buff duration to the passives. Incap then either needs defile or increased damage to target, not both.
Basically need a way to shift more power to magblade and reduce utility to stamblade and give both more staying power to be competitive in group play such as battlegrounds neither currently are great at for a sacrifice to just ganking.
When talking balance, you balance with the whole game in mind, something you're failing to do. Let's go ahead and add Root/Snare immunity to cloak and double the cost, while also surpressing HoTs. Stamblade is now completely screwed as not only did you nerf their healing, you nerfed their only real form of in class survivability on top of reducing their damage to be more on par to Stamplar or Stamden, both of which also offer more utility and better overall survivability to NB even with an unnerfed Cloak, accomplishing nothing but making those two classes infinitely better options than Stamblade and considering that NB Tanks/Healers are both inferior to Warden and Templar Tanks/Healers, it just puts NB as a whole back as one of the worst classes in the game.
It's just awful suggestions that have 0 critical thinking on the overall impact of the game as a whole, which is honestly the problem with the majority of suggestion on these forums. Everyone only focuses on 1 single aspect of the game and tries to "balance" that aspect without thinking of the repercussions of that change in the grand scheme of things.
It's why I also suggested buffing the duration of the passive as part of something to raise their survivability. There needs to be more still for magicka NBs then on healing
The lack of critical thinking is from people not realizing in battlegrounds in a group effort, people dont want NBs on their team as it's a 1 trick pony, and that 1 trick doesn't work on a good group of players and leaves teammates shorthanded. You cant give buffs to address that along with leaving the ability to cloak as often, cause major fracture, major defile, maim, off balance , and have vulnerability damage boost to the stunned target out of stealth in 3 GCDs with a guaranteed crit. Its majorly overloaded in its capabilities coming out of cloak.
The duration increase of Shadow Barrier is meaningless since NB already gets 100% uptime (or damn well close to it) because of Surprise Attack already. It wouldn't do anything to help them that they don't already have. You removing Healing while cloaked further screws NB since it doesn't have burst healing capabilities like the other classes so it does the exact opposite of trying to make NB useful by making them even more of a liability. How tf do you think suppressing heals on a class that's healing comes primarily from HoTs would be a good idea is beyond me.
You're also contradicting yourself. If the fact that them being majorly overloaded coming out of Cloak doesn't work on good players, despite the Major Fracture, Major Defile, Maim, Off Balance, amd Vulnerability boost, doesn't that mean the class isn't a problem? It doesn't work despite all that but you would still nerf them, your logic is flawed.
If its always up (it's not when you are not on the offensive BTW) then what exactly is it the other classes on stam have NBs dont? DKs and Wardens are all I cam think of with defenses beyond that.
And I'm not contradicting myself. You're just too myopic to see someone who wants the class to be more well rounded rather than sitting there looking for new players or people otherwise with their guard down.
I'm sorry, what? August 2018Well, I was going by the pretense of the revisions I made to NB that I posted earlier in the thread.
Assassination:
Soul Harvest: Add a 2 second Silence effect to enemies hit by this ability. Loses out on the Ultimate Regen bonuses.
Assassin's Blade: Moved to the 3rd skill in the skill line to make way for Veiled Strike to come to Assassination.
Blur: Moved to Shadow Line. Minor Resolve/Ward added to base effect. Morph options are to deal damage to enemies after a successful dodge or after casting, the next ability you use is free.
Mark Target: Reworked the skill entirely and moved to Siphoning Skill Line to make room for Cripple. MT now provides Minor Lifesteal, with Morphs applying Minor Magic Steal or Major Maim for a few seconds upon activation. Removed Major Fracture/Breech as well as the burst heal from it and greatly reduced the cost to be around the 1200 range. No longer reveals invisible enemies but I'll explain that later.
Master Assassin: Changed into just a passive buff for having an Assassination ability slotted. Speed Boost from Concealed Weapon gets placed here as well.
Executioner: Applies on activation of an Assassination ability. 1 second CD.
Shadow:
Consuming Darkness: Does damage as a base effect. 1 morph follows the NB, while the other has increased range and duration.
Veiled Strike: Moved to Assassination. Concealed Weapon now applies Major Breech instead of speed boost in stealth.
Shadow Cloak: Remove invisibility as an effect entirely. Tank heal becomes the new base effect with 1 morph turning it into a Burst Heal with a small damage shield while the other extends the duration of the HoT + Minor Protection.
Path of Darkness: Now has a synergy for some extra damage. Twisting Path will now scale on Max Health and apply Minor Fracture/Breech with the synergy instead of extra damage.
Fear: Changed into a Mind bend abilities that draws enemies towards the NB. One morph remains a fear effect while the other gets Minor Maim.
Dark Shade: Roots enemies hit by the AoE.
Siphoning:
Soul Siphon: Reduced cost
Cripple: Moved to Assassination for Mark Target. Debilitate is now a Stamina Morph. Loses resource return effect.
Shrewd Offering: Applies a HoT effect to the Target
Siphoning Strikes: Heavy attacks restore more resources while active.
Power Drain: Heal applied as base effect. Power Extraction gets a radius increase while Sap Essence refunds some of the cost per enemy hit.
With the loss of Cloak as a defense mechanism, NB would need to supplement its survivability elsewhere, such as with my reworked Mark Target, which provide Minor Lifesteal and Major Maim. The root effect, being tied into the Dark Shade Morph when Shadow Image is the preferred PvP morph also circumvents the potential abuse of root spam on NB. Of course, since every DPS skill is now mostly located in the Assassin Tree as well as the changes to the passives in that tree, a nerf would be required somewhere, which would most likely come at a 10% nerf to the damage buff from Death Stroke and morphs (so instead of a 20% damage increase, you get a 10%), which should, in theory, be enough to keep NB damage in check. These changes are also an indirect nerf to Magblade since Cripple is no longer in Siphoning and would require them to use Funnel for the Magicka Flood passive and lower their DPS slightly more as a result, allowing Sorcs to at least have a chance to be included in trials again.
While some might not like the changes, I felt they were pretty balanced, all things considered. August 2018What if, on top of each class being able to perform the Tank role in its own way, we had gear set that were better suited for certain classes to Tank/Heal with, without being completely useless for other class/role combinations. It would require a complete reworking of set bonuses but that shouldn't be a problem considering the sheer amount of lackluster sets in the game anyways.
Going by the premise that:
DK = Mitigation Tank
Templar = Health Tank
NB = Debuff Tank
Sorc = Shield Tank
Warden = Buff Tank
Let's rework Eternal Warrior to be functionally good for a Health Based Tank.The 2-4Pc can remain the same but the 5th piece gets changed into this.
When your health is above 50%, nearby allies (capped at 6) are granted Minor Courage, increasing their Weapon/Spell Damage by 179. When your Health drops below 50%, nearby allies are granted a Damage Shield equal to 30% of your max health and gain Major Heroism while the Damage Shield remains. Increase Max Health over the current Healing Received to further help the Health Tank.
This rework would allow all tanks to run it but something like a High Health Templar Tank would potentially get the most mileage out of it because, not only would it be much more difficult for them to get below the 50% range and lose the Minor Courage Buff but if it does fall below that threshold, the damage shield it grants would be much higher on them than on other Tanks. This is sort of an extreme example since clearly the entire scenario would be reliant on Templar Health Tanks being viable things in the 1st place, which they currently aren't but it's just a possible suggestion to help with diversity. Also, let's face it Eternal Warrior could use a rework anyways since it's just so bad
I'm Sorry, What?
I'M SORRY, WHAT?
WTF ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING? I have been advocating for balanced changes for YEARS now constantly updating and suggesting improvements on balance in literally every single area of the game, from Tanking to Healing, from set bonuses to racial passives, from Oblivion to Aetherius but you have the AUDACITY to accuse me of being myopic when you yourself only focus on Stamblade and completely disregard everything else like Stamplar's group utility via PotL, StamSorc's Cleave Damage superiority, StamDK's sheer bulk, or Stamden's balance of all those traits, is pathetic and the saddest thing I've seen on these forums in a long time.
It's this mentality that has caused so many needless nerfs to class defining skills and I will NOT stand for it, just like I have been doing for years. Get back to me when you can actually argue with facts and not baseless strawman arguments or false accusations.
"Yeah I'm totally sorry I didn't search and read all your post history. Really. " FTMFL
In the conversation now, you are in fact, just reacting to someone suggesting getting away from the class being very much built around the overloaded abilities. No one cares about your forum warrior history but you. And you'll be lucky if they even consider shifting power at all on NB when they come to nerf it even to the degree I hope for. Make no mistake; this will be at the top of the list and coming.
I'm fine with adjusting classes. I'm not fine with being insulted when its entirely unwarranted.
As for ZOS ever actually adjusting the game properly, I lost faith in them a long time again. They either can't or won't balance the game and I expect Necromancer to be brokenly OP when its released so everything we post is practically pointless anyways but that doesn't mean I'm not going to suggest improvements for it in the hope ZOS ever does decide to do just that. I still don't agree with your adjustments though.Argonian forever0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Qbiken , you must be speaking about stamblade in PvP, because if you'll nerf its damage in PvE, there won't be any more reason to bring it anywhere since stamden/stamplar have easier rotations and will then have precisely same damage (even now sNB has minimal advantage for all the steepness of the learning curve - and no, I don't think that balancing around tiny fraction of player base who can even so much see that advantage is a right thing; I already outdamage most pug stamblades when I happen to pug 4-mans as sDK). Nerf them, and sNB will be even more miserable in hands of casuals, and pointless in hands of good players, because why even bother when you can get the same for much less trouble.
Toning down cloak or defile, or something along those lines that don't affect PvE, I wouldn't turn down. But then again, I won't call for nerfs for a class I don't use in PvP, let others wage war.0
