pretty please do something against this new clever bot scourge

JimmyJuJu

Turelus wrote: »

You would think in a thread about botting people would be able to come together an unite against the bots, nope it's the internet so we have to argue about things.

I disagree.

Grianasteri

Bots are becoming an increasing problem, more and more people are reporting seeing them in my guilds.

The danger is it will destroy or at least distort the in game economy. If folk are leaving a bot to farm valuable resources, they have access to funds and resources those who play the game legitimately do not, and the bots therefore pollute the economy with their sales etc.

Ive seen games where bots were a massive massive issue, ESO is no where near that level yet, so we must view this in perspective. But ZOS would do well to take steps now before it becomes a real issue.

Even consoles are now seeing increased bot sightings.

Do something ZOS.

Elsonso

Grianasteri wrote: »

Do something ZOS.

Well, they are, and have been, doing something. At least on PC/NA. I am not on the other platforms, but I can see it happening on PC/NA. Bots go away. We also have anecdotal evidence from comments here on the forum that ZOS is banning people who are using cheat programs.

max_only

How can you tell it’s a bot? I was farming in circles during the last event. No one whispered me to check.

JayAstrophel

Bots are getting so sophisticated that I honestly can't tell people and bots apart anymore. I could have run across a ton but because I give everyone the benefit of the doubt, I just don't notice the bots out there. Just because I don't see them, though, doesn't mean they aren't a problem.

Verbal_Earthworm

Turelus wrote: »

You would think in a thread about botting people would be able to come together an unite against the bots, nope it's the internet so we have to argue about things.

How would that work then?

Would gathering in unison somehow cause ZOS to resolve bots once and for all?

No.

VaranisArano

max_only wrote: »

How can you tell it’s a bot? I was farming in circles during the last event. No one whispered me to check.

With farming bots, They generally follow a preset path, whether there is a resource at that node spot or not. So its pretty easy to run ahead of it, grab the resource, and watch the bot trot right up to the now-empty spot, pause, and then go on with their route. Repeat that enough and you can be certain that's not human behavior. Other times you'll see them stuck walking/jumping into a wall continually in a way no human player would actually be stuck.

With some farming bots, they stand in one place and pick the node as soon as it appears. Those you can get with the Questionable Meat Sack from the Deshaan public dungeon quest.

With the sort of bots that run in mobs killing things, they also run a very tight preset path. Often, you'll see players sticking so close together that Cyrodiil raid leads would kill for that sort of coordination, or characters following exactly in each other's footsteps. The dead giveaway is when they make exact right angle turns repeatedly.

If you know what to look for, its quite obvious.

If I'm ever not sure, I tail the player for a while, looking for that consistent path, exact right angle turns, and no human response to this odd person following them around. If after that I'm still not sure, I don't report. But often enough there's enough preponderance of evidence to tell if someone's a bot or not, and make the report if they are.

Turelus

Verbal_Earthworm wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

You would think in a thread about botting people would be able to come together an unite against the bots, nope it's the internet so we have to argue about things.

How would that work then?

Would gathering in unison somehow cause ZOS to resolve bots once and for all?

No.

Well having threads about combating RMT, cheating and exploiting not break down into off topic arguments and instead keeping the focus on bots are bad and ZOS not seeming to be acting on them (or communicating their actions if they are) would be better.

Elsonso

Verbal_Earthworm wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

You would think in a thread about botting people would be able to come together an unite against the bots, nope it's the internet so we have to argue about things.

How would that work then?

Would gathering in unison somehow cause ZOS to resolve bots once and for all?

No.

The more frequently that people report bots, the quicker they will be gone. This is not just something that ZOS does. Players have a role, as well.

geonsocal

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Now imagine that instead of farming materials, all those bots are programmed to follow one real player who has an addon that sends commands to all those bots. Some bots are spamming aoe heals and buffs while others simply wait to activate their aoe damage abilities and ultimates when the only real player sends them a command. Now imagine this in Cyrodill.
We effectively get a ball group.

I am ULTRON

max_only

VaranisArano wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

How can you tell it’s a bot? I was farming in circles during the last event. No one whispered me to check.

With farming bots, They generally follow a preset path, whether there is a resource at that node spot or not. So its pretty easy to run ahead of it, grab the resource, and watch the bot trot right up to the now-empty spot, pause, and then go on with their route. Repeat that enough and you can be certain that's not human behavior. Other times you'll see them stuck walking/jumping into a wall continually in a way no human player would actually be stuck.

This describes me to a T lol.

People would run up and grab my node and I’d pause, be slightly annoyed and then run to the next spot.
Also if I’m farming while tired I get stuck on rocks all the time.

Oh well. I guess I give too much credit to others in the hopes I get the same.

dazee

We always knew it would happen.

VaranisArano

max_only wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

How can you tell it’s a bot? I was farming in circles during the last event. No one whispered me to check.

With farming bots, They generally follow a preset path, whether there is a resource at that node spot or not. So its pretty easy to run ahead of it, grab the resource, and watch the bot trot right up to the now-empty spot, pause, and then go on with their route. Repeat that enough and you can be certain that's not human behavior. Other times you'll see them stuck walking/jumping into a wall continually in a way no human player would actually be stuck.

This describes me to a T lol.

People would run up and grab my node and I’d pause, be slightly annoyed and then run to the next spot.
Also if I’m farming while tired I get stuck on rocks all the time.

Oh well. I guess I give too much credit to others in the hopes I get the same.

I get that if someone sprints in and grabs it. However, I see this with bots who are just trotting along a path, and I'll grab one that's along that path, not even the one they were going for at the moment. Any human player has plenty of time to think "no node there" and skip it. The bots don't.

Elsonso

max_only wrote: »

This describes me to a T lol.

People would run up and grab my node and I’d pause, be slightly annoyed and then run to the next spot.
Also if I’m farming while tired I get stuck on rocks all the time.

I am pretty sure you aren't going to be mistaken for a bot. At least, not any more than the next person. Sure, someone could come along and just be reporting anyone who is farming, but that can happen to anyone. I have yet to find a player that acts like a bot, although many have claimed such. When I see them in the game... nope.

InvictusApollo

VaranisArano wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Now imagine that instead of farming materials, all those bots are programmed to follow one real player who has an addon that sends commands to all those bots. Some bots are spamming aoe heals and buffs while others simply wait to activate their aoe damage abilities and ultimates when the only real player sends them a command. Now imagine this in Cyrodill.
We effectively get a ball group. Now ask yourself how much skill does it take to be a member of a ball group if a bot could easily do that

Now imagine the effort, training, and cooperation it takes for 12 to 24 players to act as a coordinated team in Cyrodiil well enough to be mistaken for a bunch of bots, while breaking free, dodge rolling, managing their resources, watching the battlefield, and playing their role as part of a team.

As a member of one of those organized raids, I don't think you are making the point you think you are making. A good team makes it seem easy, and getting that good team working together where it seems easy is actually a hell of a lot of work.

VaranisArano wrote: »

breaking free

You mean like everyone else but with several healers giving you immortality?

VaranisArano wrote: »

dodge rolling

You mean like everyone else but with several healers giving you immortality?

VaranisArano wrote: »

managing their resources

You mean like everyone else but with several healers giving you immortality?

VaranisArano wrote: »

watching the battlefield

You mean like everyone else but with several healers giving you immortality?

VaranisArano wrote: »

playing their role

You mean like everyone else but with several healers giving you immortality?


I get it that it takes some practice to stack just like it takes some practice to stack during a trial. But then again stacking isn't such a huge skill. Resource management is much easier since you get synergies and can put more into recovery. Don't act as if rolling with a ballgroup needed some elite skill. You don't have to kite, break line of sight, read your opponent, predict their movements, wait for an opening to line up a perfect combo. All of that is done by the team leader. And since team leader is literally immortal, he can focus just on leading. The rest just has to stack. It's not even stacking in some advanced formation.

VaranisArano

InvictusApollo wrote: »

I get it that it takes some practice to stack just like it takes some practice to stack during a trial. But then again stacking isn't such a huge skill. Resource management is much easier since you get synergies and can put more into recovery. Don't act as if rolling with a ballgroup needed some elite skill. You don't have to kite, break line of sight, read your opponent, predict their movements, wait for an opening to line up a perfect combo. All of that is done by the team leader. And since team leader is literally immortal, he can focus just on leading. The rest just has to stack. It's not even stacking in some advanced formation.

I'm one of those raid healers.

And we can go back and forth about skill for different playstyles or small group vs large raid, but I specifically took issue with you directly comparing automated bot actions to the efforts of coordinated players acting as a team. So the different skills for different playstyles is a tangent I don't care to go down - lots of other threads for that. Same thing for the specifics of raid tactics and raid healing - there are other threads for that. That's not really my point - my point was you saying our skill level is on the same level as a bot obeying automated commands from another player.

Sure, someone can probably program a sufficiently advanced bot to do exactly what I did for my raid and tether it to follow the raid lead within a certain distance. That would be cheating, but they probably could.

I did all that as an actual player, without being a programmed bot. I played as a team member, without having to be programmed.

So seriously, as a player in an organized raid, I put actual effort into my play. If I look like a bot, that's the result of hours of training and playing with my team so much so that I make it look easy.

And that's true of everyone I played with in my raids. If we look like bots, if we make it look easy, that's the result of hours of practicing and playing together until we work like a well-oiled machine. And that's in the changing, dynamic large scale fights of Cyrodiil.

If that's not your playstyle, so be it. But I find it ridiculous to dismiss the effort we put into practicing and playing together, learning to work as a team - the effort put in by real players really playing - as the same level of skill as "Some bots are spamming aoe heals and buffs while others simply wait to activate their aoe damage abilities and ultimates when the only real player sends them a command."

In reality, we're a lot closer to a sports team listening to the calls of our coach or team captain and executing well-practiced plays, including the benefits of having people that cover each role and let our leader concentrate on calls.

generalmyrick

ItchyTheRat wrote: »

today i witnessed something that has made me a little disgusted and disheartened to be frank, and its the accursed bot problem that is still rampant through Tamriel, but now some of the more well known trains have started to split off some of their numbers, to go visit a nearby merchant to sell off everything they have looted, and then return to the bot train again, only to repeat this process after a while again. i can just imagine the sort of gold the owners of these bot accounts make in a single day, and to make matters worse, some of these botting accounts seemed legit, with DLC costumes and crown store pets.

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0iv7QTRF8g"][url="http://"]https://youtube.com/watch?v=Q0iv7QTRF8g[/url]

saw a youtube video where a dude was showing how to make a macro on a ps4 controller too!

Mr_Walker

max_only wrote: »

How can you tell it’s a bot? I was farming in circles during the last event. No one whispered me to check.

Are you named "qwijybofubar"?

Are you making perfect 90 degree turns at precisely the same time in a perfect, unaltering circuit for 20 hours straight?

Are you serious?



But really, my favourite part of the thread so far has been the guy who's more concerned about a bot getting named and shamed than the increasingly sophisticated behaviour and rampant cheating on display. In video proof.

Honourable mention to the guy getting salty because people play in teams in Cyro.

TARAFRAKA

BrianLovesLisa wrote: »

ItchyTheRat wrote: »

today i witnessed something that has made me a little disgusted and disheartened to be frank, and its the accursed bot problem that is still rampant through Tamriel, but now some of the more well known trains have started to split off some of their numbers, to go visit a nearby merchant to sell off everything they have looted, and then return to the bot train again, only to repeat this process after a while again. i can just imagine the sort of gold the owners of these bot accounts make in a single day, and to make matters worse, some of these botting accounts seemed legit, with DLC costumes and crown store pets.

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0iv7QTRF8g"][url="http://"]https://youtube.com/watch?v=Q0iv7QTRF8g[/url]

Well one person breaking the rules deserves another I guess, if they are to do something about those bots, they need to also take action on your account for naming and shaming.

Honestly I watched the videos and this looks how me and friends would farm. You get full and sell at a merchant and continue.
Bots don't use mounts to go sell to a merchant. These aren't bots, they're farmers.
And why are you so concerned? I don't pay any attention to where people are going.
And naming on the forums is distasteful and against the rules.

ItchyTheRat

Honestly I watched the videos and this looks how me and friends would farm. You get full and sell at a merchant and continue.

so you mean to tell me you and your friends look like bots when farming, and goes around in 20+ ppl trains ?

Bots don't use mounts to go sell to a merchant. These aren't bots, they're farmers.

bots dont use mounts ? where do you see any of these bots using a mount ?

And why are you so concerned? I don't pay any attention to where people are going.
And naming on the forums is distasteful and against the rules.

because i care about this game and i want the bots which are seriously dampening the overall feel of the game, and also offsetting the economy in the game


also its painfully clear that these are bots since they are all following the exact same footsteps, attacking at the exact same time, etc...and if you cant see this i reall do feel pity for you, also, this is not naming and shaming, this is showing a problem that needs to be remedied

Mayrael

JadonSky wrote: »

Just curious bc i don't really understand and before I ask the querstion i don't even know how to Bot. What is the issue of someone having a BOT? Does it cause other people harm in the game or cause performance issues for ZOS? or is it just the fact people hate someone is making their lives easier by using a program to farm xp and crafting nodes?

It's not made to make their gaming experience better, it's because they sell the gold, if nothing is going to change you will see massive inflation because of unusual amounts of gold pumped into market, just like with printing money. Yes those who bot or buy gold will have more of it but its value will be lower, so in general everyone else who's not botting or buying gold with $ will have lower purchasing power. That's why botting is bad and has to be punished with full force.

mocap

does anyone can tell me any REAL problem with bots? Except your jealousy i don't see anything.

They ruin economy? No. Slightly with Dreugh Wax maybe (kindasorta)
Ruin your game experience? No, they don't interact with quest objects
They lower your fps/ping... ok ok ) it's cuz i don't know what to say )

Actually for me, is fun to see them. Kind of random 'LOL' encounter while overlanding.

Morgha_Kul

I gather Sorceror pet bots would be the bots of choice. The same thing happens over at Lord of the Rings Online. The reason is you can multibox with a dozen alts on follow, and the pets will attack for them, obliterating everything with only one actual player at the keyboard.

WhyMustItBe

You should really all download this addon (if you are on PC). Since installing it my emotional health is much better when encountering bots:

EZReport

You can set a keybind for the addon's report function and just spam it with the cooldown option enabled and be certain you will catch them all quickly and easily. Maybe 1 minute to report a pack of 10 as opposed to way longer following them around the clunky wheel-report way.

That's the best thing about it; you can report remotely. So long as you are close enough to get a mouse over target you are close enough to report. No annoying fiddling with the action wheel, no risking being reported yourself being too close.

Just point your mouse at the group and spam the report keybind you set in the addon, and send the reports (all the deatils are auto-populated including timestamp and location) until the addon doesn't pop up the report interface anymore and the bots all have the reported icon under their names.

EDIT: The addon also gives you a cool in-game app to browse previous reports by character name or account name or location reported, and when you encounter those bots later you will still see the last reported icon and (optional) timestamp under their name so you will always know if you are playing with a cheater!

If you hate bots, FIGHT BACK!

Anhedonie

PC users might like this addon. Very handy for mass reporting.

https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1818-BotScanner2000.html

D0PAMINE

mocap wrote: »

does anyone can tell me any REAL problem with bots? Except your jealousy i don't see anything.

They ruin economy? No. Slightly with Dreugh Wax maybe (kindasorta)
Ruin your game experience? No, they don't interact with quest objects
They lower your fps/ping... ok ok ) it's cuz i don't know what to say )

Actually for me, is fun to see them. Kind of random 'LOL' encounter while overlanding.

This is literaly the most ignorant statememt I've read in this thread.

mocap

D0PAMINE wrote: »

This is literaly the most ignorant statememt I've read in this thread.

more facts, less moaning pls. Any real problem with bots?

Turelus

generalmyrick wrote: »

ItchyTheRat wrote: »

today i witnessed something that has made me a little disgusted and disheartened to be frank, and its the accursed bot problem that is still rampant through Tamriel, but now some of the more well known trains have started to split off some of their numbers, to go visit a nearby merchant to sell off everything they have looted, and then return to the bot train again, only to repeat this process after a while again. i can just imagine the sort of gold the owners of these bot accounts make in a single day, and to make matters worse, some of these botting accounts seemed legit, with DLC costumes and crown store pets.

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0iv7QTRF8g"][url="http://"]https://youtube.com/watch?v=Q0iv7QTRF8g[/url]

saw a youtube video where a dude was showing how to make a macro on a ps4 controller too!

Did you send the video to ZOS?

Turelus

mocap wrote: »

does anyone can tell me any REAL problem with bots? Except your jealousy i don't see anything.

They ruin economy? No. Slightly with Dreugh Wax maybe (kindasorta)
Ruin your game experience? No, they don't interact with quest objects
They lower your fps/ping... ok ok ) it's cuz i don't know what to say )

Actually for me, is fun to see them. Kind of random 'LOL' encounter while overlanding.

They're the start of much darker aspects of RMT. They're an issue and should be stopped.

green_villain

bots is okay because i dont care about pve