Empieror but not Empieress?

Arciris

I was quite surprised when I noticed that this title doesn't come in feminine form.
Is that intended or just an oversight?

@ZOS_GinaBruno please?

Update: both the German and French client have a female version of the title. Can we please get a clarification as to why the English client doesn't have one?

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom please?

max_only

Interesting.

I wonder if it has to do with the common pronunciation (at least in this region)
Em-peh-rur vs Em-press.
Don’t hear Em-peh-russ really.

Jaimeh

I wondered about this as well... after of all the trouble of getting this achievement, I was hoping it would display corrently as 'empieress' for my female main character.

therift

Jimminy Christmas. This achievement is a cluster-fubar. Glad I'm ignoring it.

starkerealm

max_only wrote: »

Interesting.

I wonder if it has to do with the common pronunciation (at least in this region) Em-peh-rur vs Em-press.
Don’t hear Em-peh-russ really.

"em-PIE-ress." Yeah, not as elegant, but still amusing-ish.

generalmyrick

sexism?????

StormeReigns

I cant crust this game any more, without a proper culinary filling.

dazee

In related news pie will soon be extinct as there are no more female pies, thus pie babies are a thing of the past now.

What you thought pie was made artificially? who'd want to eat a pie like that?

Arciris

max_only wrote: »

Interesting.

I wonder if it has to do with the common pronunciation (at least in this region)
Em-peh-rur vs Em-press.
Don’t hear Em-peh-russ really.

I thought about that too, but then looking at the title in a female character, it just feels off...

I suppose there's 2 ways to look at it: the way it is pronounced and the way we read it.
When you read "Empieress" fast, your brains tricks you into reading Emrpress - the world that is familiar to our brain but then you realize there's something off and understand the joke by reading more carefully. The same thing that happens with Empieror.

Now that I think about it, I'm curious to know if they could translate the joke into other languages... I know for sure "pie" in French is "tarte" and I don't see Entartepereur as a title. I'm French but I play with the English client, so I wouldn't know.

Vizikul

Arciris wrote: »

I was quite surprised when I noticed that this title doesn't come in feminine form.

A little cheer up: the German client does have a female version of that title. Baiser --> male; Baiserin --> female.

D0PAMINE

Vizikul wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

I was quite surprised when I noticed that this title doesn't come in feminine form.

A little cheer up: the German client does have a female version of that title. Baiser --> male; Baiserin --> female.

Wunderbar

max_only

Vizikul wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

I was quite surprised when I noticed that this title doesn't come in feminine form.

A little cheer up: the German client does have a female version of that title. Baiser --> male; Baiserin --> female.

Is the normal word Kaiser? Does that mean bai = pie in German?

Edit: Baiser means meringue, a common pie filling. That’s... actually really fecking clever Zos.

inclinations

Agree completely. Please fix!

Vizikul

max_only wrote: »

Vizikul wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

I was quite surprised when I noticed that this title doesn't come in feminine form.

A little cheer up: the German client does have a female version of that title. Baiser --> male; Baiserin --> female.

Is the normal word Kaiser? Does that mean bai = pie in German?

1. Yes, the standard word is Kaiser, whichs means emperor. (The word is actually adapted from Julius Caesar, the romans pronounced Caesar, the same way as Germans spell Kaiser).
2. No, bai does not mean pie. The German word for pie is "Kuchen". Baiser is actually meringue. The pun is the word similarity. Kaiser --> Baiser. The letter k gets replaced with a b. That's it. That's the joke, that and the other thing being pastry.

olsborg

Whats lame about this is that soo many ppl are standing in secluded places killing eachother over and over to get the achievment.

When me and a friend came upon such a place in cyro we killed them all, then they sent very salty whispers saying that we were bad ppl (sensured) because we did that, then I simply said "this is pvp" then they replied "we are not pvpers and want this achievment".

JamieAubrey

therift wrote: »

Jimminy Christmas. This achievement is a cluster-fubar. Glad I'm ignoring it.

300+ pies and only 7/10 but my guild will be boosting it tomorrow

MLGProPlayer

I consider myself a "radical" feminist, and I think we (as a society) should be moving towards the default "masculine" form for all titles in English (i.e. "emperor, "actor", etc). These words didn't need a feminine form to begin with. Gendered nouns just create needless differentiation.

Granted, I'm obviously not opposed to them adding an "empress" title to the game.

Apherius

Arciris wrote: »

Now that I think about it, I'm curious to know if they could translate the joke into other languages... I know for sure "pie" in French is "tarte" and I don't see Entartepereur as a title. I'm French but I play with the English client, so I wouldn't know.

Same in fench, Empierreur, pierre = rock -_-, it make no sense at all XD

Ruckly

Maybe a male and female determiner should be used.

The emperor.



(female determiner) emperor.


aftí emperor

juvenca emperor

emperor yclept essere donna

Hoolielulu

Female pharaohs were still pharaohs not pharaohesses. A woman damn well can claim a title traditionally assumed to be only for men.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

"Emperor" and "Empress".

But I'm with @MLGProPlayer. For ease of communication, I'm perfectly okay with gender-neutral terms being used. Let's save the linguistic tedium for classroom lectures and debates.

lucky_Sage

If you are on a female toon it says empress on your character tittle

Amanuensis

Did somebody just assume the pie's gender?

dazee

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I consider myself a "radical" feminist, and I think we (as a society) should be moving towards the default "masculine" form for all titles in English (i.e. "emperor, "actor", etc). These words didn't need a feminine form to begin with. Gendered nouns just create needless differentiation.

Granted, I'm obviously not opposed to them adding an "empress" title to the game.

Having a specific title for each gender just shows respect for the gender. if you're a feminist you want respect for your gender dont you? Men and women are different but equally important and deserving of equal respect. it cannot be denied that the 2 genders are biologically different at the very least.

The different nouns reflect that and are as it should be.

nryerson1025

dazee wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I consider myself a "radical" feminist, and I think we (as a society) should be moving towards the default "masculine" form for all titles in English (i.e. "emperor, "actor", etc). These words didn't need a feminine form to begin with. Gendered nouns just create needless differentiation.

Granted, I'm obviously not opposed to them adding an "empress" title to the game.

Having a specific title for each gender just shows respect for the gender. if you're a feminist you want respect for your gender dont you? Men and women are different but equally important and deserving of equal respect. it cannot be denied that the 2 genders are biologically different at the very least.

The different nouns reflect that and are as it should be.

I am not a radical feminist but i agree with dazee as this is common in other languages and simplifies it. Empress is already a title in the game. Empieress is not

dazee

I mean some languages even have different ways of speaking, depending on your gender, for certain words, these include both Japanese and Hebrew. Hebrew possibly to a lesser extent.

nryerson1025

dazee wrote: »

I mean some languages even have different ways of speaking, depending on your gender, for certain words, these include both Japanese and Hebrew. Hebrew possibly to a lesser extent.

interesting--mind giving me an example?

also, just to add to my first comment, what i mean by simplify is it takes the gender out of the noun, which is one way of placing masculinity and femininity on level ground

Arciris

The debate over "genderized" titles is an interesting one, as an Anthropologist myself I know that thorough history and cultures/civilization this question has been approached in many different ways and that language differences can be as extreme as having an entirely different language for male and female (yes, people of that culture are all bilingual).

But in ESO the title "Empress" exists, and I was really expecting to see "Empieress" to mirror that title, just like "Empieror" mirrors "Emperor".
I'm actually using the "Emperor Regalia" with the "Empieror" title on one of my male characters, along with the Crown of Misrule and the Jester personality, just because I think it is a fun combination.
Seems I can't really do that with a female character.

Good to know that at least in German they made it work for both genders, big thanks @Vizikul for the info!
As for the French version - big thanks @Apherius - well, I suppose that is why I play with the English client, some things just make me cringe when I see how they were translated

Hallothiel

Also consider myself a radical feminist and really don’t see what the damn fuss is about. Certainly don’t feel oppressed or discriminated against! It’s just a silly pun title from an event - is it really that bothersome?

Removing the ending ‘-ess’ to denote a specifically female role has become quite common in English - and unlike most other European languages it does not have gendered nouns in the first place.

And the pun doesn’t really work in English (as it apparently does in German) - Empieress? Nah.

Arciris

Hallothiel wrote: »

Also consider myself a radical feminist and really don’t see what the damn fuss is about. Certainly don’t feel oppressed or discriminated against! It’s just a silly pun title from an event - is it really that bothersome?

Removing the ending ‘-ess’ to denote a specifically female role has become quite common in English - and unlike most other European languages it does not have gendered nouns in the first place.

And the pun doesn’t really work in English (as it apparently does in German) - Empieress? Nah.

It is not about discrimination or oppression but about consistency.
Whether you choose to apply one rule or another - gendered nouns or non gendered nouns - then you need to be consistent about it, otherwise the doubt may arise as to why a rule is applied in one case and not in another

(that is in essence the definition of discrimination)

In ESO we have the title "Emperor" and the title "Empress".
It only makes sense we would have "Empieror" and "Empieress".
That or ZOS needs to review their stand on gendered nouns and remove the title "Empress" from the game and just go with the generic "Emperor"

i would be cool with either btw.

And this not a "fuss" it is just a question and a request for clarification

AngelFires333

Dats rasis.