Stam Warden Makes me Wanna AltF4 Life

juhislihis19

BuildMan wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Warden has access to too many major/minor buffs. Minor toughness + minor protection, minor beserk, major fracture/breech, major heroism, class major brutality/sorcery.

What other class has anything remotely comparable?

Nightblade: minor berserk, major brutality/sorcery, major defense buffs on a spammable, major vitality, major fracture/major breech, major protection, major defile. Minor Weapon crit, major expedition.

Sorcerer: Major vitality, major brutality/sorcery, major and minor defense buffs, minor spell crit, minor expedition

Templar: Major weapon and spell crit. Minor sorcery, minor mending, minor resource sustains, minor mana steal. Major defense buffs * 1.5 if in rune.

Dragonknight: Major brutality/ sorcery, minor brutality, major stamina sustain, major health sustain, major defense buffs, major defile, unique fire debuff, major expedition, major mending

If I have screwed anything up please let me know and I’ll change what’s wrong.

Listing buffs don't matter when you should be listing how they are obtainable.

Warden: Free cost skill Brutality/Sorcery + stamina sustain
DK: Extremely costly Brutality/Sorcery skill

Warden: Free Major Mending passive
DK: Slotting a costly magicka-based, average damage shield

Warden: Major Expedition + Major Endurance and minor Berserk/Evasion. Slotting also increases damage done.
DK: Major Endurance from an extremely costly and terrible heal GDB. No Evasion or Berserk for DK. Expedition from Chains, useless skill for others than tanks, and even then the buff don't make sense having it there. Why would you pull an enemy to you and then can run faster?

I could go on, but to recap:
Warden get strong, useful buffs from useful skills. They also get sustain, damage etc. by slotting these useful skills.

On the other hand, DK can get strong buffs by slotting and using useless/terrible skills, and get nothing from the passives by slotting these skills. No doubt Sorcerers and Templars could do a similar list.

TimeDazzler

juhislihis19 wrote: »

Oh and while you are up to 3 minutes dueling them, make one mistake and get hit by that Sub Assault/DB/S2W combo and you're dead.

They have same resistances every other class have, except they also get Minor Protection as well as a bonus!
Free Minor Toughness as well. More health!

***. I don't know of a single good stamina warden that uses S2W in duels. Also, sounds like a build issue if you are dying to SA+DB combo, as some have already said most delayed and telegraphed burst in the game. You must be full glass cannon if you are dying to that, usually, it's in combination with LA/HS/Bash combo and even then you need to do multiple of them to truly "1 shot" someone while they have their defense down or havent healed from it.

All classes get a bonus with their armor buff, wardens have the second worst armor buff in the game after DKs.

Nightblade: Class Passive
Warden: Minor Protection
Sorcerer: Nice AoE DoT and Minor Expedition (costs stamina)
Templar: 400 Stamina or Magicka regen and bonus if they stand in it (costs stamina)
Dragonknights: Tiny shield or tiny AoE DoT

Nightblades don't even have to slot a buff. Sorcerers get an AoE that deals good damage, pulls people out of stealth, and gives you speed, and costs stamina. Templars basically get a free barslot over warden as well as additional resists - on warden you have to slot netch for the regen where u were going to get major brut from FM/Rally or weapon line anyways, templars get it on their armor buff and get minor protection for jabbing people and get bonus for standing in it and it snares opponents, DKs have the worst armor buff although for magDK the DoT one is not bad.

As for the whole minor toughness thing, ZOS buffed every other passive to give more damage 5%->10% or more crit -> 50% increase base value. I would much rather have 10% more weapon damage than 10% more health, as DK bleeds scale best with flat weapon damage increase too.

HowlKimchi

Dunno if this was mentioned before but there's a ball group in PC NA right now that's made up of like 10 wardens all spamming s2w and sub. If you stand in front of them you're as good as dead, but if you stand to the side of their trajectory even if you're so close, you dont get hit and they just ignore you. It's hilarious )

Xvorg

Vapirko wrote: »

Stam warden makes me wanna sidestep sub assault, block dizzy swing, ruin their burst but then eventually get bored into a stalemate because their build is tanky on an already tanky class.

unless they use silver lash... that move is quite good

(of course, all classes can do that with the right kit)

Casul

juhislihis19 wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Warden has access to too many major/minor buffs. Minor toughness + minor protection, minor beserk, major fracture/breech, major heroism, class major brutality/sorcery.

What other class has anything remotely comparable?

Nightblade: minor berserk, major brutality/sorcery, major defense buffs on a spammable, major vitality, major fracture/major breech, major protection, major defile. Minor Weapon crit, major expedition.

Sorcerer: Major vitality, major brutality/sorcery, major and minor defense buffs, minor spell crit, minor expedition

Templar: Major weapon and spell crit. Minor sorcery, minor mending, minor resource sustains, minor mana steal. Major defense buffs * 1.5 if in rune.

Dragonknight: Major brutality/ sorcery, minor brutality, major stamina sustain, major health sustain, major defense buffs, major defile, unique fire debuff, major expedition, major mending

If I have screwed anything up please let me know and I’ll change what’s wrong.

Listing buffs don't matter when you should be listing how they are obtainable.

Warden: Free cost skill Brutality/Sorcery + stamina sustain
DK: Extremely costly Brutality/Sorcery skill

Warden: Free Major Mending passive
DK: Slotting a costly magicka-based, average damage shield

Warden: Major Expedition + Major Endurance and minor Berserk/Evasion. Slotting also increases damage done.
DK: Major Endurance from an extremely costly and terrible heal GDB. No Evasion or Berserk for DK. Expedition from Chains, useless skill for others than tanks, and even then the buff don't make sense having it there. Why would you pull an enemy to you and then can run faster?

I could go on, but to recap:
Warden get strong, useful buffs from useful skills. They also get sustain, damage etc. by slotting these useful skills.

On the other hand, DK can get strong buffs by slotting and using useless/terrible skills, and get nothing from the passives by slotting these skills. No doubt Sorcerers and Templars could do a similar list.

@juhislihis19
And now I shall give a rebuttal.

Warden Netch is the unique class sustain. Comparable to battle roar/helping hands, dark deal, siphon strikes, and rune.

And yes before you say that Netch also gives the added bonus of brutality/sorcery lets evaluate the others fully.

Netch: free cost, buffs, sustain, small heal.
Battle roar: Tri-stat sustain
Dark deal: Sustain (half instant and the rest over time) plus an additional heal.
Siphoning strikes: single stat sustain (small amount throughout with burst at end of duration)
Rune: defenses, sustain, and better healing while inside rune.

So all the options give something unique. Netch definitely has a huge appeal being free but don’t act like the others don’t offer something unique to bring to the table.

Major mending on warden is active after you heal when under 40% so to claim it’s just free is incorrect, you have 2 situations. 1: you double cast soothing spores, or 2 you give up another skill slot and run leeching vines.

And mind you comparing skill costs warden is similar to dk

Igneous shield 4050
Green dragon blood 4320
Volatile armor 2700

For the same buffs on a warden we get

Soothing *2 7802
Soothing + leeching 3901/2700
Bird of prey 3241
Ice fortress 4050

Note these are all before reduction

Lets take for example use vigor on a dk and soothing on a warden

Warden: leeching + soothing = 3901/2700
Dk: obsidian shield + vigor = 3511/4050

Now I bet you are like “ha I got you” well that’s not taking helping hands into consideration when we take in the 990 stamina from helping hands you get

Dk: 2521/4050 = 6571
Warden 3901/2700 = 6601

So they are almost exactly the same cost with warden actually being a little higher.

Also buff timers play a part for example ice fortress vs volatile armor

Ice fortress 4050/24 = 169 mag per second
Volatile 2700/20 = 135 mag per second

And with major endurance

Green dragon blood = 4320/23 188 mag per second
Bird of prey = 3241/10 = 324 mag per second

Lastly we can do brutality just to show the uniqueness for dk

Netch 0/27 = 0
Igneous weapon 4320/33 = 131 mag per second

But let me also give an example where you keep it up every 20 seconds for the minor brutality

4320/20 = 216 mag per second

Now given the additional costs the warden abilities have you can see it balances out pretty decent

Assuming 216 mag is our goal

324 -188 = 154
169 -135 = 34

We end up with an additional 188 mag per second for warden, if we look at the cost of ignoeous weapon per 20 then yes warden is cheaper by every 30 seconds and warden is spending 85 more mag per second.

And that’s not including that dk can get extra stam sustain from casting earthens heart abilities.

If there is anything I missed feel free to tag me and we can continue the debate.

Neoauspex

Xvorg wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Stam warden makes me wanna sidestep sub assault, block dizzy swing, ruin their burst but then eventually get bored into a stalemate because their build is tanky on an already tanky class.

unless they use silver lash... that move is quite good

(of course, all classes can do that with the right kit)

This is a good combo, you can still dodgeroll out of the burst unless lagmonster also attacks.

My biggest problem with Stamden is that they don't have to sacrifice tankiness for enough offensive firepower to burst. Basically the same as magsorcs before the shield nerf. All the other classes have to balance those or rely on stealth for defense, and stealth has direct counters.

Xvorg

BuildMan wrote: »

juhislihis19 wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Warden has access to too many major/minor buffs. Minor toughness + minor protection, minor beserk, major fracture/breech, major heroism, class major brutality/sorcery.

What other class has anything remotely comparable?

Nightblade: minor berserk, major brutality/sorcery, major defense buffs on a spammable, major vitality, major fracture/major breech, major protection, major defile. Minor Weapon crit, major expedition.

Sorcerer: Major vitality, major brutality/sorcery, major and minor defense buffs, minor spell crit, minor expedition

Templar: Major weapon and spell crit. Minor sorcery, minor mending, minor resource sustains, minor mana steal. Major defense buffs * 1.5 if in rune.

Dragonknight: Major brutality/ sorcery, minor brutality, major stamina sustain, major health sustain, major defense buffs, major defile, unique fire debuff, major expedition, major mending

If I have screwed anything up please let me know and I’ll change what’s wrong.

Listing buffs don't matter when you should be listing how they are obtainable.

Warden: Free cost skill Brutality/Sorcery + stamina sustain
DK: Extremely costly Brutality/Sorcery skill

Warden: Free Major Mending passive
DK: Slotting a costly magicka-based, average damage shield

Warden: Major Expedition + Major Endurance and minor Berserk/Evasion. Slotting also increases damage done.
DK: Major Endurance from an extremely costly and terrible heal GDB. No Evasion or Berserk for DK. Expedition from Chains, useless skill for others than tanks, and even then the buff don't make sense having it there. Why would you pull an enemy to you and then can run faster?

I could go on, but to recap:
Warden get strong, useful buffs from useful skills. They also get sustain, damage etc. by slotting these useful skills.

On the other hand, DK can get strong buffs by slotting and using useless/terrible skills, and get nothing from the passives by slotting these skills. No doubt Sorcerers and Templars could do a similar list.

@juhislihis19
And now I shall give a rebuttal.

Warden Netch is the unique class sustain. Comparable to battle roar/helping hands, dark deal, siphon strikes, and rune.

And yes before you say that Netch also gives the added bonus of brutality/sorcery lets evaluate the others fully.

Netch: free cost, buffs, sustain, small heal.
Battle roar: Tri-stat sustain
Dark deal: Sustain (half instant and the rest over time) plus an additional heal.
Siphoning strikes: single stat sustain (small amount throughout with burst at end of duration)
Rune: defenses, sustain, and better healing while inside rune.

So all the options give something unique. Netch definitely has a huge appeal being free but don’t act like the others don’t offer something unique to bring to the table.

Major mending on warden is active after you heal when under 40% so to claim it’s just free is incorrect, you have 2 situations. 1: you double cast soothing spores, or 2 you give up another skill slot and run leeching vines.

And mind you comparing skill costs warden is similar to dk

Igneous shield 4050
Green dragon blood 4320
Volatile armor 2700

For the same buffs on a warden we get

Soothing *2 7802
Soothing + leeching 3901/2700
Bird of prey 3241
Ice fortress 4050

Note these are all before reduction

Lets take for example use vigor on a dk and soothing on a warden

Warden: leeching + soothing = 3901/2700
Dk: obsidian shield + vigor = 3511/4050

Now I bet you are like “ha I got you” well that’s not taking helping hands into consideration when we take in the 990 stamina from helping hands you get

Dk: 2521/4050 = 6571
Warden 3901/2700 = 6601

So they are almost exactly the same cost with warden actually being a little higher.

Also buff timers play a part for example ice fortress vs volatile armor

Ice fortress 4050/24 = 169 mag per second
Volatile 2700/20 = 135 mag per second

And with major endurance

Green dragon blood = 4320/23 188 mag per second
Bird of prey = 3241/10 = 324 mag per second

Lastly we can do brutality just to show the uniqueness for dk

Netch 0/27 = 0
Igneous weapon 4320/33 = 131 mag per second

But let me also give an example where you keep it up every 20 seconds for the minor brutality

4320/20 = 216 mag per second

Now given the additional costs the warden abilities have you can see it balances out pretty decent

Assuming 216 mag is our goal

324 -188 = 154
169 -135 = 34

We end up with an additional 188 mag per second for warden, if we look at the cost of ignoeous weapon per 20 then yes warden is cheaper by every 30 seconds and warden is spending 85 more mag per second.

And that’s not including that dk can get extra stam sustain from casting earthens heart abilities.

If there is anything I missed feel free to tag me and we can continue the debate.

Helping Hands and Battle Roar are crappy passives. They could be improved, but right now they make 0 difference on DK performance ...

Helping Hands can be useful for a stam based DK, but no skill in the Earthen Earth tree can be used by a stam DK (using obsidian on a stam DK is plainly stupid, since you need that magicka for wings). On a Mag DK is a little more useful if you go S/B permablocker and plan to use Foss, but even with that you are forced to use that skill each 6 secs.

Battle Roar is the typical skill that seems great, but it's not. To make a good use of it you need in the first place an enemy. Then your enemy should be half dead so you can kill him/her with the ulti. At that point the resources recovered are quite useless since you already killed the guy. I'm sure you will say that you can use the ulti before the enemy dies, and that can be a good argument, but why would you use an ulti on a enemy who's full health? You are wasting the ulti just to recover resources which is a foolish move.

It is somewhat useful with only 3 or 4 ultis: Shield Ulti, Panacea, Bats (if you are vamp it can be a come back move) and barrier/horn. The big problem is that you will not kill anything.

On a Stam DK, Mountain Blessing is much better than those two.

WuffyCerulei

I’d have no issues with stamdens if 98% of them didn’t use shalks that bug out and hit 2 more times, dawnbreaker, and then the undodgeable spin2win in that order. They’re like the melee version of nightblade snipers.

ezio45

im a little sick of these, tanks and pet sorcs.....

Alfie2072

Xvorg wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

juhislihis19 wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Warden has access to too many major/minor buffs. Minor toughness + minor protection, minor beserk, major fracture/breech, major heroism, class major brutality/sorcery.

What other class has anything remotely comparable?

Nightblade: minor berserk, major brutality/sorcery, major defense buffs on a spammable, major vitality, major fracture/major breech, major protection, major defile. Minor Weapon crit, major expedition.

Sorcerer: Major vitality, major brutality/sorcery, major and minor defense buffs, minor spell crit, minor expedition

Templar: Major weapon and spell crit. Minor sorcery, minor mending, minor resource sustains, minor mana steal. Major defense buffs * 1.5 if in rune.

Dragonknight: Major brutality/ sorcery, minor brutality, major stamina sustain, major health sustain, major defense buffs, major defile, unique fire debuff, major expedition, major mending

If I have screwed anything up please let me know and I’ll change what’s wrong.

Listing buffs don't matter when you should be listing how they are obtainable.

Warden: Free cost skill Brutality/Sorcery + stamina sustain
DK: Extremely costly Brutality/Sorcery skill

Warden: Free Major Mending passive
DK: Slotting a costly magicka-based, average damage shield

Warden: Major Expedition + Major Endurance and minor Berserk/Evasion. Slotting also increases damage done.
DK: Major Endurance from an extremely costly and terrible heal GDB. No Evasion or Berserk for DK. Expedition from Chains, useless skill for others than tanks, and even then the buff don't make sense having it there. Why would you pull an enemy to you and then can run faster?

I could go on, but to recap:
Warden get strong, useful buffs from useful skills. They also get sustain, damage etc. by slotting these useful skills.

On the other hand, DK can get strong buffs by slotting and using useless/terrible skills, and get nothing from the passives by slotting these skills. No doubt Sorcerers and Templars could do a similar list.

@juhislihis19
And now I shall give a rebuttal.

Warden Netch is the unique class sustain. Comparable to battle roar/helping hands, dark deal, siphon strikes, and rune.

And yes before you say that Netch also gives the added bonus of brutality/sorcery lets evaluate the others fully.

Netch: free cost, buffs, sustain, small heal.
Battle roar: Tri-stat sustain
Dark deal: Sustain (half instant and the rest over time) plus an additional heal.
Siphoning strikes: single stat sustain (small amount throughout with burst at end of duration)
Rune: defenses, sustain, and better healing while inside rune.

So all the options give something unique. Netch definitely has a huge appeal being free but don’t act like the others don’t offer something unique to bring to the table.

Major mending on warden is active after you heal when under 40% so to claim it’s just free is incorrect, you have 2 situations. 1: you double cast soothing spores, or 2 you give up another skill slot and run leeching vines.

And mind you comparing skill costs warden is similar to dk

Igneous shield 4050
Green dragon blood 4320
Volatile armor 2700

For the same buffs on a warden we get

Soothing *2 7802
Soothing + leeching 3901/2700
Bird of prey 3241
Ice fortress 4050

Note these are all before reduction

Lets take for example use vigor on a dk and soothing on a warden

Warden: leeching + soothing = 3901/2700
Dk: obsidian shield + vigor = 3511/4050

Now I bet you are like “ha I got you” well that’s not taking helping hands into consideration when we take in the 990 stamina from helping hands you get

Dk: 2521/4050 = 6571
Warden 3901/2700 = 6601

So they are almost exactly the same cost with warden actually being a little higher.

Also buff timers play a part for example ice fortress vs volatile armor

Ice fortress 4050/24 = 169 mag per second
Volatile 2700/20 = 135 mag per second

And with major endurance

Green dragon blood = 4320/23 188 mag per second
Bird of prey = 3241/10 = 324 mag per second

Lastly we can do brutality just to show the uniqueness for dk

Netch 0/27 = 0
Igneous weapon 4320/33 = 131 mag per second

But let me also give an example where you keep it up every 20 seconds for the minor brutality

4320/20 = 216 mag per second

Now given the additional costs the warden abilities have you can see it balances out pretty decent

Assuming 216 mag is our goal

324 -188 = 154
169 -135 = 34

We end up with an additional 188 mag per second for warden, if we look at the cost of ignoeous weapon per 20 then yes warden is cheaper by every 30 seconds and warden is spending 85 more mag per second.

And that’s not including that dk can get extra stam sustain from casting earthens heart abilities.

If there is anything I missed feel free to tag me and we can continue the debate.

Helping Hands and Battle Roar are crappy passives. They could be improved, but right now they make 0 difference on DK performance ...

Helping Hands can be useful for a stam based DK, but no skill in the Earthen Earth tree can be used by a stam DK (using obsidian on a stam DK is plainly stupid, since you need that magicka for wings). On a Mag DK is a little more useful if you go S/B permablocker and plan to use Foss, but even with that you are forced to use that skill each 6 secs.

Battle Roar is the typical skill that seems great, but it's not. To make a good use of it you need in the first place an enemy. Then your enemy should be half dead so you can kill him/her with the ulti. At that point the resources recovered are quite useless since you already killed the guy. I'm sure you will say that you can use the ulti before the enemy dies, and that can be a good argument, but why would you use an ulti on a enemy who's full health? You are wasting the ulti just to recover resources which is a foolish move.

It is somewhat useful with only 3 or 4 ultis: Shield Ulti, Panacea, Bats (if you are vamp it can be a come back move) and barrier/horn. The big problem is that you will not kill anything.

On a Stam DK, Mountain Blessing is much better than those two.

tbh you dont sound very experienced on a stamdk, most of what you said is wrong

Wing

not really saying warden is not amazingly good at pvp, as especially stam has a perfect kit for it.

but as far as sub goes playing a warden made me ALOT better at fighting wardens. because I got used to mentally keeping track of casting sub to the time when it fires so when I fight wardens in solo or small man I have a pretty easy time of keeping track of their sub time and rolling through them or stunning them or immobilize and side step, etc.

same thing happened when I played a NB were you get really good at mentally counting to "4" for cloak spam, though that's not really something that helps you fight them lol.

I also really started putting protective on all my jewelry and more value in enough health / armor / crit resist to survive any burst period. generally if you can survive a full round of burst you pretty much cannot be killed by one person as you can heal back up faster then they can damage at that point, after that its a numbers game.

Wing

I also wanted to make a separate post saying that effectively wings and the skill of the remaining stam DK players is keeping them competitive.

wings allow you to bruiser pretty well.

and stam DK is probably the worst stamina class and least played (its not TERRIBLE, but it is the worst out of all of them lets be honest)

the only thing keeping stam DK competitive is the fact that the players playing them have been playing them forever and thus know the in and outs of the class really well.

noob players rolling stam classes are rolling Warden and NB because their easy and effective depending on how you want to play, then maybe stamplars and stamsorcs.

stam DK is very hard to play and has no flavor or unique style.
-it has no speed (if your counting chains your not a DK player) no stam spamable,
-no execute (leap does not count, anyone can finish with an ult)
-no heal (GDB is terrible still and used as a minor vitality buff if anything)
-no sustain (stam cannot spam EH skills for the pitiful stam they bring back, especially with wings fighting for that magicka pool) and battle roar is a shell of its former glory compared to other class sutain. and having what decent sustain your class possesses tied to ulting can be really crappy
-no where near the group utility of other classes (EXCEPT for NB, they are even worse in groups, they just make up for it in their kit and solo play)

**BTW whoever listed it as having major defile (the F'ing standard? are you serious!?) has never played in any form of pvp with a DK**

so whats the redeeming factor? wings, reflect and snare removal are amazing, their in one skill, and they single handedly hoist DK up to being competitive in pvp.

in all other cases, every other class can do what DK does better, and stamden is just amazballs, it does not have reflect but It can eat projectiles perfectly fine, better burst, better sustain, better heals, better group utility, better tankiness (a lot of its skills and passives are overloaded tbh) its just not as competitive in PvE (where shalks just don't matter) therefore not OP

Ariades_swe

Wing wrote: »

I also wanted to make a separate post saying that effectively wings and the skill of the remaining stam DK players is keeping them competitive.

wings allow you to bruiser pretty well.

and stam DK is probably the worst stamina class and least played (its not TERRIBLE, but it is the worst out of all of them lets be honest)

the only thing keeping stam DK competitive is the fact that the players playing them have been playing them forever and thus know the in and outs of the class really well.

noob players rolling stam classes are rolling Warden and NB because their easy and effective depending on how you want to play, then maybe stamplars and stamsorcs.

stam DK is very hard to play and has no flavor or unique style.
-it has no speed (if your counting chains your not a DK player) no stam spamable,
-no execute (leap does not count, anyone can finish with an ult)
-no heal (GDB is terrible still and used as a minor vitality buff if anything)
-no sustain (stam cannot spam EH skills for the pitiful stam they bring back, especially with wings fighting for that magicka pool) and battle roar is a shell of its former glory compared to other class sutain. and having what decent sustain your class possesses tied to ulting can be really crappy
-no where near the group utility of other classes (EXCEPT for NB, they are even worse in groups, they just make up for it in their kit and solo play)

**BTW whoever listed it as having major defile (the F'ing standard? are you serious!?) has never played in any form of pvp with a DK**

so whats the redeeming factor? wings, reflect and snare removal are amazing, their in one skill, and they single handedly hoist DK up to being competitive in pvp.

in all other cases, every other class can do what DK does better, and stamden is just amazballs, it does not have reflect but It can eat projectiles perfectly fine, better burst, better sustain, better heals, better group utility, better tankiness (a lot of its skills and passives are overloaded tbh) its just not as competitive in PvE (where shalks just don't matter) ..

Waffennacht

Anthem makes me truly appreciate how good of a game ESO truly is...

Wait what?

Thogard

Wing wrote: »

I also wanted to make a separate post saying that effectively wings and the skill of the remaining stam DK players is keeping them competitive.

wings allow you to bruiser pretty well.

and stam DK is probably the worst stamina class and least played (its not TERRIBLE, but it is the worst out of all of them lets be honest)

the only thing keeping stam DK competitive is the fact that the players playing them have been playing them forever and thus know the in and outs of the class really well.

noob players rolling stam classes are rolling Warden and NB because their easy and effective depending on how you want to play, then maybe stamplars and stamsorcs.

stam DK is very hard to play and has no flavor or unique style.
-it has no speed (if your counting chains your not a DK player) no stam spamable,
-no execute (leap does not count, anyone can finish with an ult)
-no heal (GDB is terrible still and used as a minor vitality buff if anything)
-no sustain (stam cannot spam EH skills for the pitiful stam they bring back, especially with wings fighting for that magicka pool) and battle roar is a shell of its former glory compared to other class sutain. and having what decent sustain your class possesses tied to ulting can be really crappy
-no where near the group utility of other classes (EXCEPT for NB, they are even worse in groups, they just make up for it in their kit and solo play)

**BTW whoever listed it as having major defile (the F'ing standard? are you serious!?) has never played in any form of pvp with a DK**

so whats the redeeming factor? wings, reflect and snare removal are amazing, their in one skill, and they single handedly hoist DK up to being competitive in pvp.

in all other cases, every other class can do what DK does better, and stamden is just amazballs, it does not have reflect but It can eat projectiles perfectly fine, better burst, better sustain, better heals, better group utility, better tankiness (a lot of its skills and passives are overloaded tbh) its just not as competitive in PvE (where shalks just don't matter) therefore not OP

Stam DK is by far the easiest of the visible Stam DPS to play.

Wings are a crutch.

Minno

There's one thingi consistently see in this thread that both sides agree on; a buff or two and a tank spell or two could be removed in order to give warden a more interesting offensive combo.

I actually don't see any other way around it, if wardens want to be more than troll tank specs or group smashers.

Wing

Thogard wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

I also wanted to make a separate post saying that effectively wings and the skill of the remaining stam DK players is keeping them competitive.

wings allow you to bruiser pretty well.

and stam DK is probably the worst stamina class and least played (its not TERRIBLE, but it is the worst out of all of them lets be honest)

the only thing keeping stam DK competitive is the fact that the players playing them have been playing them forever and thus know the in and outs of the class really well.

noob players rolling stam classes are rolling Warden and NB because their easy and effective depending on how you want to play, then maybe stamplars and stamsorcs.

stam DK is very hard to play and has no flavor or unique style.
-it has no speed (if your counting chains your not a DK player) no stam spamable,
-no execute (leap does not count, anyone can finish with an ult)
-no heal (GDB is terrible still and used as a minor vitality buff if anything)
-no sustain (stam cannot spam EH skills for the pitiful stam they bring back, especially with wings fighting for that magicka pool) and battle roar is a shell of its former glory compared to other class sutain. and having what decent sustain your class possesses tied to ulting can be really crappy
-no where near the group utility of other classes (EXCEPT for NB, they are even worse in groups, they just make up for it in their kit and solo play)

**BTW whoever listed it as having major defile (the F'ing standard? are you serious!?) has never played in any form of pvp with a DK**

so whats the redeeming factor? wings, reflect and snare removal are amazing, their in one skill, and they single handedly hoist DK up to being competitive in pvp.

in all other cases, every other class can do what DK does better, and stamden is just amazballs, it does not have reflect but It can eat projectiles perfectly fine, better burst, better sustain, better heals, better group utility, better tankiness (a lot of its skills and passives are overloaded tbh) its just not as competitive in PvE (where shalks just don't matter) therefore not OP

Stam DK is by far the easiest of the visible Stam DPS to play.

Wings are a crutch.

there is some very obvious DK hate or something going on here. everyone knows Stamina Warden is the most effective and east stamina class (let alone any class) to play and be good with.

I actually went back through the thread and found the only other post you made pretty much saying stamdens are: rare, hard to play, you only die if your bad, don't have good burst.

that's all just absolute lies, I can understand wanting to not want something to be nerfed because its good. but your clearly posting as someone trying to make stamwarden out to be some "oh woe is me my class is actually poorly" when that is so obviously not the case (everyone here PvP's, we can see it lol)

its fine if your class or character is good, just own it, don't feel bad about it.

and saying wings are crutch (I agree to a point, there the only thing keeping stam DK competitive and not utter trash) is a little pot calling kettle when warden are the only other class that can achieve the same thing (shimmering shield and forward momentum)

Thogard

Wing wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

I also wanted to make a separate post saying that effectively wings and the skill of the remaining stam DK players is keeping them competitive.

wings allow you to bruiser pretty well.

and stam DK is probably the worst stamina class and least played (its not TERRIBLE, but it is the worst out of all of them lets be honest)

the only thing keeping stam DK competitive is the fact that the players playing them have been playing them forever and thus know the in and outs of the class really well.

noob players rolling stam classes are rolling Warden and NB because their easy and effective depending on how you want to play, then maybe stamplars and stamsorcs.

stam DK is very hard to play and has no flavor or unique style.
-it has no speed (if your counting chains your not a DK player) no stam spamable,
-no execute (leap does not count, anyone can finish with an ult)
-no heal (GDB is terrible still and used as a minor vitality buff if anything)
-no sustain (stam cannot spam EH skills for the pitiful stam they bring back, especially with wings fighting for that magicka pool) and battle roar is a shell of its former glory compared to other class sutain. and having what decent sustain your class possesses tied to ulting can be really crappy
-no where near the group utility of other classes (EXCEPT for NB, they are even worse in groups, they just make up for it in their kit and solo play)

**BTW whoever listed it as having major defile (the F'ing standard? are you serious!?) has never played in any form of pvp with a DK**

so whats the redeeming factor? wings, reflect and snare removal are amazing, their in one skill, and they single handedly hoist DK up to being competitive in pvp.

in all other cases, every other class can do what DK does better, and stamden is just amazballs, it does not have reflect but It can eat projectiles perfectly fine, better burst, better sustain, better heals, better group utility, better tankiness (a lot of its skills and passives are overloaded tbh) its just not as competitive in PvE (where shalks just don't matter) therefore not OP

Stam DK is by far the easiest of the visible Stam DPS to play.

Wings are a crutch.

there is some very obvious DK hate or something going on here. everyone knows Stamina Warden is the most effective and east stamina class (let alone any class) to play and be good with.

I actually went back through the thread and found the only other post you made pretty much saying stamdens are: rare, hard to play, you only die if your bad, don't have good burst.

that's all just absolute lies, I can understand wanting to not want something to be nerfed because its good. but your clearly posting as someone trying to make stamwarden out to be some "oh woe is me my class is actually poorly" when that is so obviously not the case (everyone here PvP's, we can see it lol)

its fine if your class or character is good, just own it, don't feel bad about it.

and saying wings are crutch (I agree to a point, there the only thing keeping stam DK competitive and not utter trash) is a little pot calling kettle when warden are the only other class that can achieve the same thing (shimmering shield and forward momentum)

Identifying with a particular class is something only new players do. I play all classes. I am playing stamden this patch, played mag sorc last patch, played stamplar the one before that.

There are only two stamdens in high MMR BGs on PC NA. There are a plethora of them in low and mid MMR matches where players don’t know how to counter them.

Go to stormhaven and tell me how many stamdens you see dueling.

Stamdens are really only OP in organized group combat where shalks can be stacked. Which is why I was the first poster on this board to write a “nerf shalks” post:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/374883/subterranean-assault-overperforming

And they actually did - the mobility nerf was an indirect nerf to shalks.

Stam DK is the easiest Stam DPS to play because it is the tankiest and requires the least skill to apply its DPS (dots). Do not confuse ease of play with effectiveness - Stam DK is a liability in many aspects of group combat because of its lack of group utility and AOE stacking dmg (stamplars stamdens and Stam sorcs all bring much more to the group)

If you’re on console this is probably a moot point - the console players tend to lack situational awareness due to their inability to mouse pan and therefore are far more vulnerable to a shalk burst.

Wing

Thogard wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

I also wanted to make a separate post saying that effectively wings and the skill of the remaining stam DK players is keeping them competitive.

wings allow you to bruiser pretty well.

and stam DK is probably the worst stamina class and least played (its not TERRIBLE, but it is the worst out of all of them lets be honest)

the only thing keeping stam DK competitive is the fact that the players playing them have been playing them forever and thus know the in and outs of the class really well.

noob players rolling stam classes are rolling Warden and NB because their easy and effective depending on how you want to play, then maybe stamplars and stamsorcs.

stam DK is very hard to play and has no flavor or unique style.
-it has no speed (if your counting chains your not a DK player) no stam spamable,
-no execute (leap does not count, anyone can finish with an ult)
-no heal (GDB is terrible still and used as a minor vitality buff if anything)
-no sustain (stam cannot spam EH skills for the pitiful stam they bring back, especially with wings fighting for that magicka pool) and battle roar is a shell of its former glory compared to other class sutain. and having what decent sustain your class possesses tied to ulting can be really crappy
-no where near the group utility of other classes (EXCEPT for NB, they are even worse in groups, they just make up for it in their kit and solo play)

**BTW whoever listed it as having major defile (the F'ing standard? are you serious!?) has never played in any form of pvp with a DK**

so whats the redeeming factor? wings, reflect and snare removal are amazing, their in one skill, and they single handedly hoist DK up to being competitive in pvp.

in all other cases, every other class can do what DK does better, and stamden is just amazballs, it does not have reflect but It can eat projectiles perfectly fine, better burst, better sustain, better heals, better group utility, better tankiness (a lot of its skills and passives are overloaded tbh) its just not as competitive in PvE (where shalks just don't matter) therefore not OP

Stam DK is by far the easiest of the visible Stam DPS to play.

Wings are a crutch.

there is some very obvious DK hate or something going on here. everyone knows Stamina Warden is the most effective and east stamina class (let alone any class) to play and be good with.

I actually went back through the thread and found the only other post you made pretty much saying stamdens are: rare, hard to play, you only die if your bad, don't have good burst.

that's all just absolute lies, I can understand wanting to not want something to be nerfed because its good. but your clearly posting as someone trying to make stamwarden out to be some "oh woe is me my class is actually poorly" when that is so obviously not the case (everyone here PvP's, we can see it lol)

its fine if your class or character is good, just own it, don't feel bad about it.

and saying wings are crutch (I agree to a point, there the only thing keeping stam DK competitive and not utter trash) is a little pot calling kettle when warden are the only other class that can achieve the same thing (shimmering shield and forward momentum)

Identifying with a particular class is something only new players do. I play all classes. I am playing stamden this patch, played mag sorc last patch, played stamplar the one before that.

There are only two stamdens in high MMR BGs on PC NA. There are a plethora of them in low and mid MMR matches where players don’t know how to counter them.

Go to stormhaven and tell me how many stamdens you see dueling.

Stamdens are really only OP in organized group combat where shalks can be stacked. Which is why I was the first poster on this board to write a “nerf shalks” post:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/374883/subterranean-assault-overperforming

And they actually did - the mobility nerf was an indirect nerf to shalks.

Stam DK is the easiest Stam DPS to play because it is the tankiest and requires the least skill to apply its DPS (dots). Do not confuse ease of play with effectiveness - Stam DK is a liability in many aspects of group combat because of its lack of group utility and AOE stacking dmg (stamplars stamdens and Stam sorcs all bring much more to the group)

If you’re on console this is probably a moot point - the console players tend to lack situational awareness due to their inability to mouse pan and therefore are far more vulnerable to a shalk burst.

im really confused because it seems like you almost go back and forth between PvE and PvP arguments.

I don't play BG's enough to comment TOO much but ica nsay a few things:
-only a few actual BG game mods are about straight up killing (much to the dismay of people that actually want to do that)
-we cannot see MMR or whatever system ZoS uses and pretty much guess, not saying you don't remember people but yeah.

nobody takes open world dueling seriously, 1v1 in this game is completely wasted as its very easy to build to just not die and thus render any duel a draw, some builds can tank half a dozen to a dozen players at a time, let alone 1v1. the only legit dueling is structured and outright ban sets and builds, its no wonder that's not representative of open world pvp

stam DK is not "the tankiest" class, it has one unique passive granting ~3k spell resistance. templar has a passive that does about the same, and warden has a passive that can grant ~3k spell AND physical resistance. all classes can reach the same level of tankiness with the same invest with maybe a 1% difference due to passives.

unless for some reason your counting magma armors damage cap, in that case once again all classes have ults that once again reduce damage or outright heal through it, its nothing special.

and stam DK is easy because of. . .ITS DOTS?! that's nothing, so much nothing, those do nothing in pvp and are a waste of space, the only dots worth slotting in pvp are bleeds because they ignore mitigation.

but tell you what if you want to trade shalks for either of the DK dots (ill even let you pick, I really don't care what you take) then I am ALL FOR IT!

Thogard

Wing wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

I also wanted to make a separate post saying that effectively wings and the skill of the remaining stam DK players is keeping them competitive.

wings allow you to bruiser pretty well.

and stam DK is probably the worst stamina class and least played (its not TERRIBLE, but it is the worst out of all of them lets be honest)

the only thing keeping stam DK competitive is the fact that the players playing them have been playing them forever and thus know the in and outs of the class really well.

noob players rolling stam classes are rolling Warden and NB because their easy and effective depending on how you want to play, then maybe stamplars and stamsorcs.

stam DK is very hard to play and has no flavor or unique style.
-it has no speed (if your counting chains your not a DK player) no stam spamable,
-no execute (leap does not count, anyone can finish with an ult)
-no heal (GDB is terrible still and used as a minor vitality buff if anything)
-no sustain (stam cannot spam EH skills for the pitiful stam they bring back, especially with wings fighting for that magicka pool) and battle roar is a shell of its former glory compared to other class sutain. and having what decent sustain your class possesses tied to ulting can be really crappy
-no where near the group utility of other classes (EXCEPT for NB, they are even worse in groups, they just make up for it in their kit and solo play)

**BTW whoever listed it as having major defile (the F'ing standard? are you serious!?) has never played in any form of pvp with a DK**

so whats the redeeming factor? wings, reflect and snare removal are amazing, their in one skill, and they single handedly hoist DK up to being competitive in pvp.

in all other cases, every other class can do what DK does better, and stamden is just amazballs, it does not have reflect but It can eat projectiles perfectly fine, better burst, better sustain, better heals, better group utility, better tankiness (a lot of its skills and passives are overloaded tbh) its just not as competitive in PvE (where shalks just don't matter) therefore not OP

Stam DK is by far the easiest of the visible Stam DPS to play.

Wings are a crutch.

there is some very obvious DK hate or something going on here. everyone knows Stamina Warden is the most effective and east stamina class (let alone any class) to play and be good with.

I actually went back through the thread and found the only other post you made pretty much saying stamdens are: rare, hard to play, you only die if your bad, don't have good burst.

that's all just absolute lies, I can understand wanting to not want something to be nerfed because its good. but your clearly posting as someone trying to make stamwarden out to be some "oh woe is me my class is actually poorly" when that is so obviously not the case (everyone here PvP's, we can see it lol)

its fine if your class or character is good, just own it, don't feel bad about it.

and saying wings are crutch (I agree to a point, there the only thing keeping stam DK competitive and not utter trash) is a little pot calling kettle when warden are the only other class that can achieve the same thing (shimmering shield and forward momentum)

Identifying with a particular class is something only new players do. I play all classes. I am playing stamden this patch, played mag sorc last patch, played stamplar the one before that.

There are only two stamdens in high MMR BGs on PC NA. There are a plethora of them in low and mid MMR matches where players don’t know how to counter them.

Go to stormhaven and tell me how many stamdens you see dueling.

Stamdens are really only OP in organized group combat where shalks can be stacked. Which is why I was the first poster on this board to write a “nerf shalks” post:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/374883/subterranean-assault-overperforming

And they actually did - the mobility nerf was an indirect nerf to shalks.

Stam DK is the easiest Stam DPS to play because it is the tankiest and requires the least skill to apply its DPS (dots). Do not confuse ease of play with effectiveness - Stam DK is a liability in many aspects of group combat because of its lack of group utility and AOE stacking dmg (stamplars stamdens and Stam sorcs all bring much more to the group)

If you’re on console this is probably a moot point - the console players tend to lack situational awareness due to their inability to mouse pan and therefore are far more vulnerable to a shalk burst.

im really confused because it seems like you almost go back and forth between PvE and PvP arguments.

I don't play BG's enough to comment TOO much but ica nsay a few things:
-only a few actual BG game mods are about straight up killing (much to the dismay of people that actually want to do that)
-we cannot see MMR or whatever system ZoS uses and pretty much guess, not saying you don't remember people but yeah.

nobody takes open world dueling seriously, 1v1 in this game is completely wasted as its very easy to build to just not die and thus render any duel a draw, some builds can tank half a dozen to a dozen players at a time, let alone 1v1. the only legit dueling is structured and outright ban sets and builds, its no wonder that's not representative of open world pvp

stam DK is not "the tankiest" class, it has one unique passive granting ~3k spell resistance. templar has a passive that does about the same, and warden has a passive that can grant ~3k spell AND physical resistance. all classes can reach the same level of tankiness with the same invest with maybe a 1% difference due to passives.

unless for some reason your counting magma armors damage cap, in that case once again all classes have ults that once again reduce damage or outright heal through it, its nothing special.

and stam DK is easy because of. . .ITS DOTS?! that's nothing, so much nothing, those do nothing in pvp and are a waste of space, the only dots worth slotting in pvp are bleeds because they ignore mitigation.

but tell you what if you want to trade shalks for either of the DK dots (ill even let you pick, I really don't care what you take) then I am ALL FOR IT!

Ok so in what type of PvP do you consider stamdens to be OP?

BGs? No.
Dueling? No.
Openworld? No.

It really just sounds like you think they’re OP when the stamdens are zerglings. And that’s fair. Stacked shalks are OP.

ecru

I think warden's group utility through ults (with crazy ult regen) and passives is probably a little too good. It doesn't just make them more valuable than other classes to a group, it makes classes with little or no utility not even an option. You really need a Warden. Do you really need a nb or a dk? No, not really, or not at all. This isn't really an argument to nerf wardens, I'm mostly just pointing out how some other classes don't have much to offer to a group in comparison.

Destyran

I can’t kill them solo generally but I think of them as invincible Crematorial guards and just walk around them to avoid their bad combo they can’t kill me and we go our own ways.

Wing

Thogard wrote: »

Ok so in what type of PvP do you consider stamdens to be OP?

BGs? No.
Dueling? No.
Openworld? No.

It really just sounds like you think they’re OP when the stamdens are zerglings. And that’s fair. Stacked shalks are OP.

I don't think stamina warden or anything is really OP, I think there is an assumption that when I say best or worst I mean "OP or trash"
the delta between best and worst does not have to be huge, and it will ALWAYS exist.

that being said I do think stamina warden is probably at the top of the best / worst delta because of their kit overall and its lack of decisive weakness or drawback, and fare very good in every particular activity. you can level a stamina warden and be welcome in pretty much every group comp.

compare that with something like a stamina NB that excels head and shoulders above the rest in far more niche scenarios, but then comes stone dead last in others (group play) cloak is in itself a metaphor for NB, amazing when it works, and trash when it doesn't.

kaithuzar

Alfie2072 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Stamdens weakness is the time they have to spend on buff upkeep. If you keep them CCd, they’ll spend all their time getting out of CC and buffing, with no time left over for doing dmg. That’s why most people who try the class end up moving back to an easier class like stamblade

"Oh no! My class has access to far too many buffs! It's my biggest weakness! I would be far better off having only 2 or 3!" said no one ever.

you sound uber dumb right now, countering stamden burst is the easiest burst to counter and many people will agree, its delayed and you can see it coming quite easily, tbh it just sounds like your a dud and cant spot a warden burst when its right ahead of you, like oldmate said, if you know what your doing in pvp, you can get to the point that the stamden isnt dealing any pressure or burst damage to you because he is buffing and cc breaking, using buffs matched with having to queue up sub assault is a huge downfall, it leaves so much room for you to deal damage without being pressured, like i said, maybe fight the class a little more, and possibly recognize when someone is simply a better player than you, way to many people get dumped by a player and instantly turn to the class being broken, spend some time learning the game more, understand there are better players

You seriously need to wake up out of your bubble & realize magblade assassin’s will is the slowest traveling skill in game to counter, slower than anything stamden has.

Thogard

kaithuzar wrote: »

Alfie2072 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Stamdens weakness is the time they have to spend on buff upkeep. If you keep them CCd, they’ll spend all their time getting out of CC and buffing, with no time left over for doing dmg. That’s why most people who try the class end up moving back to an easier class like stamblade

"Oh no! My class has access to far too many buffs! It's my biggest weakness! I would be far better off having only 2 or 3!" said no one ever.

you sound uber dumb right now, countering stamden burst is the easiest burst to counter and many people will agree, its delayed and you can see it coming quite easily, tbh it just sounds like your a dud and cant spot a warden burst when its right ahead of you, like oldmate said, if you know what your doing in pvp, you can get to the point that the stamden isnt dealing any pressure or burst damage to you because he is buffing and cc breaking, using buffs matched with having to queue up sub assault is a huge downfall, it leaves so much room for you to deal damage without being pressured, like i said, maybe fight the class a little more, and possibly recognize when someone is simply a better player than you, way to many people get dumped by a player and instantly turn to the class being broken, spend some time learning the game more, understand there are better players

You seriously need to wake up out of your bubble & realize magblade assassin’s will is the slowest traveling skill in game to counter, slower than anything stamden has.

Assassins will doesn’t take 3 seconds to hit its target lol

Noctus

Thogard wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Alfie2072 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Stamdens weakness is the time they have to spend on buff upkeep. If you keep them CCd, they’ll spend all their time getting out of CC and buffing, with no time left over for doing dmg. That’s why most people who try the class end up moving back to an easier class like stamblade

"Oh no! My class has access to far too many buffs! It's my biggest weakness! I would be far better off having only 2 or 3!" said no one ever.

you sound uber dumb right now, countering stamden burst is the easiest burst to counter and many people will agree, its delayed and you can see it coming quite easily, tbh it just sounds like your a dud and cant spot a warden burst when its right ahead of you, like oldmate said, if you know what your doing in pvp, you can get to the point that the stamden isnt dealing any pressure or burst damage to you because he is buffing and cc breaking, using buffs matched with having to queue up sub assault is a huge downfall, it leaves so much room for you to deal damage without being pressured, like i said, maybe fight the class a little more, and possibly recognize when someone is simply a better player than you, way to many people get dumped by a player and instantly turn to the class being broken, spend some time learning the game more, understand there are better players

You seriously need to wake up out of your bubble & realize magblade assassin’s will is the slowest traveling skill in game to counter, slower than anything stamden has.

Assassins will doesn’t take 3 seconds to hit its target lol

if u go by that.... u need 5 lightattacks and then u gotta deal with an animation and traveltime of the skill.
while on a warden u can comfortably do whatever and then time ur attack with the skill.

the sheer fact that u need to use assassins will again with a buttonpress and animation is a huge disadvantage instead of assassins will u could use another skill while assassins will fires off simultaniously. effectively increasing the burst way more. (if it would work like the warden skill).

well u get my point when the skill would fire off automatically like on the warden without us having to use the skill (again) it would obviously increase our burst potential on nightblade.

Alfie2072

Noctus wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Alfie2072 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Stamdens weakness is the time they have to spend on buff upkeep. If you keep them CCd, they’ll spend all their time getting out of CC and buffing, with no time left over for doing dmg. That’s why most people who try the class end up moving back to an easier class like stamblade

"Oh no! My class has access to far too many buffs! It's my biggest weakness! I would be far better off having only 2 or 3!" said no one ever.

you sound uber dumb right now, countering stamden burst is the easiest burst to counter and many people will agree, its delayed and you can see it coming quite easily, tbh it just sounds like your a dud and cant spot a warden burst when its right ahead of you, like oldmate said, if you know what your doing in pvp, you can get to the point that the stamden isnt dealing any pressure or burst damage to you because he is buffing and cc breaking, using buffs matched with having to queue up sub assault is a huge downfall, it leaves so much room for you to deal damage without being pressured, like i said, maybe fight the class a little more, and possibly recognize when someone is simply a better player than you, way to many people get dumped by a player and instantly turn to the class being broken, spend some time learning the game more, understand there are better players

You seriously need to wake up out of your bubble & realize magblade assassin’s will is the slowest traveling skill in game to counter, slower than anything stamden has.

Assassins will doesn’t take 3 seconds to hit its target lol

if u go by that.... u need 5 lightattacks and then u gotta deal with an animation and traveltime of the skill.
while on a warden u can comfortably do whatever and then time ur attack with the skill.

the sheer fact that u need to use assassins will again with a buttonpress and animation is a huge disadvantage instead of assassins will u could use another skill while assassins will fires off simultaniously. effectively increasing the burst way more. (if it would work like the warden skill).

well u get my point when the skill would fire off automatically like on the warden without us having to use the skill (again) it would obviously increase our burst potential on nightblade.

thanks for the story my man, correct me if im wrong but cant you skill LA cancel multiple times and still have it proc assassins will? also im quite sure assassins will isnt the only skill you have, ive seen many nb's use instant damage skills and dot, sure enough some argue they arent very strong right now, but im pretty sure ALL of nb's damage isnt delayed right? xD without sub assault, the enemy is literally taking no damage, no pressure, from my past experience playing a nb i was able to kill & pressure people without landing assassins will just fine

Trancestor

The buff up keep is why i hate playing my stamden, it feels like having to rebuff every 5 seconds, really annoying class to play.

Ariades_swe

@Thogard What's your opinion of magden in the current meta?

Thogard

Ariades_swe wrote: »

@Thogard What's your opinion of magden in the current meta?

I don’t play one so I wouldn’t put too much weight on my opinion, but they seem to have benefited the most from the snare / slow meta. Harder to kite / prekite their dmg now.

They seem far more popular than stamdens in dueling and BGs. Only see spikes in stamden numbers in large scale ball groups (largely due to the rapids nerf imo).

Current theme I’ve noticed is that large scale / zerg players are concerned about Stamdens (rightfully so) and Bg players are concerned about magdens. Neither are top tier dueling (seems to be mag sorc, a bit gap, then Stam DK, then a small gap, then the rest)