Stam Warden Makes me Wanna AltF4 Life

Apox

anyone else?

Vapirko

Stam warden makes me wanna sidestep sub assault, block dizzy swing, ruin their burst but then eventually get bored into a stalemate because their build is tanky on an already tanky class.

Apox

so why should they be allowed to swoop in behind someone wearing full heavy armor and 100-0 them in .5 seconds on a build so tanky multiple people would need to focus to down. im not a pvp genius or anything, but it seems to me it should be one or the other

literally no downside to this build other than "the player might get bored eventually if you survive their burst"

"i watched this one fengrush video and you wouldnt believe how devastating the results were"

Brrrofski

Look, if people want to roll their face on their keyboard and have success then we should allow builds for that.

Spin to win Stam wardens is that build. Let face rollers enjoy the game too

Apox

Thats really a great viewpoint to have if eso was called elder scrolls offline, and was a single player game

Kadoin

Apox wrote: »

so why should they be allowed to swoop in behind someone wearing full heavy armor and 100-0 them in .5 seconds on a build so tanky multiple people would need to focus to down. im not a pvp genius or anything, but it seems to me it should be one or the other

literally no downside to this build other than "the player might get bored eventually if you survive their burst"

"i watched this one fengrush video and you wouldnt believe how devastating the results were"

Because ZOS balance is a joke. I seriously stopped using pure stam and mag builds over 2 years ago, mostly out of boredom and because mag chars suck under negate and without shields. Best decision ever in PvP. There are some things only a hybrid can do

One of those things is not becoming food for high damage builds (at least not easily)...

Thogard

There really aren’t many stamdens in BGs on PC NA.

If one of them comes up behind you and 100-0s you in 1.1s then it’s your own fault for not paying attention and not being aware of your surroundings. The combo does less dmg than a snipe gank and is significantly easier to spot.

Stamdens weakness is the time they have to spend on buff upkeep. If you keep them CCd, they’ll spend all their time getting out of CC and buffing, with no time left over for doing dmg. That’s why most people who try the class end up moving back to an easier class like stamblade

But seriously, learn to pan and look behind yourself. This isn’t on stamdens, this is on you.

Ragnaroek93

I don't get all the hate towards stamden, they're probably the strongest stam spec for group play but for everything else there's another class which is better. All they have is super telegraphed burst...

Rake

stam warden make me drink even more sujamma. I am out of grief already.

Chilly-McFreeze

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I don't get all the hate towards stamden, they're probably the strongest stam spec for group play but for everything else there's another class which is better. All they have is super telegraphed burst...

And almost every buff in the game. But whatever, people qq'd here over old mag sorcs while all they had to do was to count curse down.

Chilly-McFreeze

Thogard wrote: »

Stamdens weakness is the time they have to spend on buff upkeep. If you keep them CCd, they’ll spend all their time getting out of CC and buffing, with no time left over for doing dmg. That’s why most people who try the class end up moving back to an easier class like stamblade

"Oh no! My class has access to far too many buffs! It's my biggest weakness! I would be far better off having only 2 or 3!" said no one ever.

Ragnaroek93

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Stamdens weakness is the time they have to spend on buff upkeep. If you keep them CCd, they’ll spend all their time getting out of CC and buffing, with no time left over for doing dmg. That’s why most people who try the class end up moving back to an easier class like stamblade

"Oh no! My class has access to far too many buffs! It's my biggest weakness! I would be far better off having only 2 or 3!" said no one ever.

Except that he's right. Stamden can't really pressure someone because of the high buff times.

Alfie2072

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Stamdens weakness is the time they have to spend on buff upkeep. If you keep them CCd, they’ll spend all their time getting out of CC and buffing, with no time left over for doing dmg. That’s why most people who try the class end up moving back to an easier class like stamblade

"Oh no! My class has access to far too many buffs! It's my biggest weakness! I would be far better off having only 2 or 3!" said no one ever.

you sound uber dumb right now, countering stamden burst is the easiest burst to counter and many people will agree, its delayed and you can see it coming quite easily, tbh it just sounds like your a dud and cant spot a warden burst when its right ahead of you, like oldmate said, if you know what your doing in pvp, you can get to the point that the stamden isnt dealing any pressure or burst damage to you because he is buffing and cc breaking, using buffs matched with having to queue up sub assault is a huge downfall, it leaves so much room for you to deal damage without being pressured, like i said, maybe fight the class a little more, and possibly recognize when someone is simply a better player than you, way to many people get dumped by a player and instantly turn to the class being broken, spend some time learning the game more, understand there are better players

ATomiX96

Apox wrote: »

literally no downside to this build other than "the player might get bored eventually if you survive their burst"

Stam warden is one of the worst dueling classes, they should have something going for them at least, even if it is killing unexperienced squishies which dont know how to block or sidestep.
You wont kill any decent player with a (sub db spin2win) stamwarden, burst is just too obvious, and builds too tanky these days.

Joy_Division

Can't say any class makes me want to do that.

Haashhtaag

Joy_Division wrote: »

Can't say any class makes me want to do that.

*Spams snipe from stealth as you’re outnumbered*

mursie

it's one of the best group classes. super efficient aoe dmg.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

LOL. Really?

yodased

Let me try to offer something constructive instead of brow beating ya.

Stam wardens are front loaded burst machines. What this means is that their entire schtick is unloading their combo on you.

They don't have an opener, they don't have a rotation they don't have effective executes, what they have is the ability to walk behind a tree, press a few buttons, count to 2.5 and then unload on you.

The combo of shalk, dawnbreaker, executioner with 4 light attacks and bleeds will murk you if it hits you, but its no different than fighting a pve 1 shot mechanic.

Imagine that the stamwarden is the warrior from helra and you have to avoid his shield throw. Its about the same length of telegraph and hits about as hard.

Oh in case you didn't know, look at a wardens feet. A green circle will pulse from large to small, when it gets to the warden, beetles are coming.

Chilly-McFreeze

Alfie2072 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Stamdens weakness is the time they have to spend on buff upkeep. If you keep them CCd, they’ll spend all their time getting out of CC and buffing, with no time left over for doing dmg. That’s why most people who try the class end up moving back to an easier class like stamblade

"Oh no! My class has access to far too many buffs! It's my biggest weakness! I would be far better off having only 2 or 3!" said no one ever.

you sound uber dumb right now, countering stamden burst is the easiest burst to counter and many people will agree, its delayed and you can see it coming quite easily, tbh it just sounds like your a dud and cant spot a warden burst when its right ahead of you, like oldmate said, if you know what your doing in pvp, you can get to the point that the stamden isnt dealing any pressure or burst damage to you because he is buffing and cc breaking, using buffs matched with having to queue up sub assault is a huge downfall, it leaves so much room for you to deal damage without being pressured, like i said, maybe fight the class a little more, and possibly recognize when someone is simply a better player than you, way to many people get dumped by a player and instantly turn to the class being broken, spend some time learning the game more, understand there are better players

Where did I say I can't handle stamdens burst? If you had quoted my other comment it would become obvious that I compared it to sorcs: telegraphed and therefor avoidable. You might misinterpreted that. But thanks for the insults. My point still stands: the original quote of "All they have is telegraphed burst" is simply untrue bc they have a giant *** of buffs to show as well. Does it feel like a chore to keep them up? Sure. Still better than to not have access to them, right?

Savos_Saren

Fighting a single stamden isn't so bad. But when you're up against even just two of them... you're toast. (Unless you can cloak away...)

Theignson

There is a ball group on PC NA recently that runs nine stamdens, two templars, a sorc and a NB (well that was what we killed there could have been more).

Never stand in front of them or else you get hit by a tornado of s2w, DB, and subterranean assault.

However if you approach them orthogonally you are fine

Zacuel

I need to l2p too. Stam wardens frustrate me as well. In cyrodiil I normally get nailed regardless of how hard I try to avoid that combo.

Ah well.

Sleep724

Just step to the side cuz you’ll see it coming and you’ll easily avoid their burst. But that’s of course if you’re not playing in laggy cyrodill and snare infested BGs. Oh and if you manage to avoid the stun on that dawnbreaker they get every 15-20 seconds because of the only class with access to major heroism you’re good to go!

TheBonesXXX

Thogard wrote: »

There really aren’t many stamdens in BGs on PC NA.

If one of them comes up behind you and 100-0s you in 1.1s then it’s your own fault for not paying attention and not being aware of your surroundings. The combo does less dmg than a snipe gank and is significantly easier to spot.

Stamdens weakness is the time they have to spend on buff upkeep. If you keep them CCd, they’ll spend all their time getting out of CC and buffing, with no time left over for doing dmg. That’s why most people who try the class end up moving back to an easier class like stamblade

But seriously, learn to pan and look behind yourself. This isn’t on stamdens, this is on you.

Truth bombs are the MOAB of the internet.

iCaliban

Warden has access to too many major/minor buffs. Minor toughness + minor protection, minor beserk, major fracture/breech, major heroism, class major brutality/sorcery.

What other class has anything remotely comparable?

TimeDazzler

There is a difference between having access to "every buff" and actually being able to use them all on a well-rounded proper build. Here is what a stamina warden bar-setup looks like with all buffs they have access to.



Many people also complain about having the burst heal so if we were to include that (which I didn't include in the picture) that leaves us with 1 normal bar slot and 1 ultimate slot. With that 1 bar slot pick one of the following and you still won't have a complete build: spammable, execute, remove snare, DoT, stun, HoT, major evasion. Realistically you will pick vigor as it is essential for all stamina toons as is dawnbreaker. So here is what the bar setup looks like once we fill everything in.



This is when we begin to notice the whole "you have every buff" or "you have class burst heal", argument fall apart. If you slot everything warden has access to you lose out on the essentials needed for PvP like having a cc, a spammable, an execute, DoT pressure, etc. Now here is what a proper warden bar setup looks like:



You can see that in order to gain access to the essentials needed in a solo PvP build (spammable, cc, execute, snare removal), we've had to give up major savagery, minor berserk, major expedition, minor lifesteal, and major protection. That is a reason why wardens struggle outside of anything other than killing potatoes or group play. It's because of their lack of bar space, buff spamming, and virtually non-existent sustained damage/pressure.

Edit: I accidentally had lotus blossom and not green lotus in the images.

Casul

iCaliban wrote: »

Warden has access to too many major/minor buffs. Minor toughness + minor protection, minor beserk, major fracture/breech, major heroism, class major brutality/sorcery.

What other class has anything remotely comparable?

Nightblade: minor berserk, major brutality/sorcery, major defense buffs on a spammable, major vitality, major fracture/major breech, major protection, major defile. Minor Weapon crit, major expedition.

Sorcerer: Major vitality, major brutality/sorcery, major and minor defense buffs, minor spell crit, minor expedition

Templar: Major weapon and spell crit. Minor sorcery, minor mending, minor resource sustains, minor mana steal. Major defense buffs * 1.5 if in rune.

Dragonknight: Major brutality/ sorcery, minor brutality, major stamina sustain, major health sustain, major defense buffs, major defile, unique fire debuff, major expedition, major mending

If I have screwed anything up please let me know and I’ll change what’s wrong.

Heimpai

Thogard wrote: »

There really aren’t many stamdens in BGs on PC NA.

If one of them comes up behind you and 100-0s you in 1.1s then it’s your own fault for not paying attention and not being aware of your surroundings. The combo does less dmg than a snipe gank and is significantly easier to spot.

Stamdens weakness is the time they have to spend on buff upkeep. If you keep them CCd, they’ll spend all their time getting out of CC and buffing, with no time left over for doing dmg. That’s why most people who try the class end up moving back to an easier class like stamblade

But seriously, learn to pan and look behind yourself. This isn’t on stamdens, this is on you.

Stamdens are far easier to play than stamblades and are by far more useful

But if you mean snipeblades then yes that’s easier but not useful in the slightest

Oh and buff upkeep is a drawback? Have you even played stamden? Seriously

Qbiken

Heimpai wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

There really aren’t many stamdens in BGs on PC NA.

If one of them comes up behind you and 100-0s you in 1.1s then it’s your own fault for not paying attention and not being aware of your surroundings. The combo does less dmg than a snipe gank and is significantly easier to spot.

Stamdens weakness is the time they have to spend on buff upkeep. If you keep them CCd, they’ll spend all their time getting out of CC and buffing, with no time left over for doing dmg. That’s why most people who try the class end up moving back to an easier class like stamblade

But seriously, learn to pan and look behind yourself. This isn’t on stamdens, this is on you.

Stamdens are far easier to play than stamblades and are by far more useful

But if you mean snipeblades then yes that’s easier but not useful in the slightest

Oh and buff upkeep is a drawback? Have you even played stamden? Seriously

Keeping all buffs up on stamden is a drawback, yes. You're not killing anything when you're re applying your buffs constantly.

And stamden being easier to play than stamblade (not considering snipeblades).....made my day...

juhislihis19

Wardens are really bad at duels, yes I've seen that. But if you're against 2 wardens, you're toast.

Besides, what's the point of dueling Wardens when you literally can't kill them? Their tankiness is insane. If you somehow manage to get their health to execute phase, well no worries, they get that free Major Mending to help out! Add that mushroom burst heal and you're back at square one. Oh and while you are up to 3 minutes dueling them, make one mistake and get hit by that Sub Assault/DB/S2W combo and you're dead.

They have same resistances every other class have, except they also get Minor Protection as well as a bonus! No need to pack resistances that high when you got Minor Protection there too. For others to get this, you need to slot Temporal Guard as your 2nd ultimate or wear Vampire Cloak.

Free Minor Toughness as well. More health!

And Wardens actually benefit from slotting class skills:

Animal Companions -> sustain and damage.
Green Balance -> heals.
Winter's Embrace-> resistance .

DK passives are laughable compared to this. You literally get nothing for slotting class skills. I'm surprised they haven't got access to Major Berserk already.

No doubt Wardens are where they are because they were brought up with the Morrowind patch. Necromancer will be the next best thing when Elsweyer is released and likely Wardens will be nerfed.