Why snares are not a problem

Xvorg

Iskiab wrote: »

Snares are fine, the only valid complaints are about snares attached to abilities that already do a lot like puncturing sweeps.

Same as above. Sweeeps snare and Warmth passive are the only reaso why DKs and Templars are competitive in PvP. Take them away and you nerf both clases

Feanor

What people don’t seem to see is that every abomination of play styles this games has seen over time is a direct reaction to shortcomings of the game. People started building tankier and invested more and more into healing when proc sets first emerged, and with more and more damage generally being available. People also started zerging harder and harder because it’s an easy solution to both the damage thrown around and the constant CC barrage. Simply put, snares are not fun. Snares could be made into something rewarding, tactical, that has a powerful effect but takes skill to use effectively - instead of slapping on a snare on half of the game’s abilities and call it a day.

It’s a self feeding, downward spiral. If combat stays the way it is then the play styles people rage - especially the tank and Zerg ones - about will also stay.

TheBonesXXX

There's a concept in older games called sticky melee, the idea was to range into melee due to the fact there are no gap closers.

I can sticky most of the players if not all of them in duel wield, it's not the snare that's the problem, it's the players. (I don't use spin to win)

Now some snares can come down to the 30 percent mark, but honestly players really need to get over the fact.

Remove gap closers and see how quick people will want snares back. Or create your distance by being talented.

Honestly there's just massive e-peens in this game with no prior MMO experience so the nuance and understanding of game design is lacking.

Some people need to QTS and understand there are viable playstyles outside theirs.

Old schoolers like me aren't having it any more.

Minno

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

There's a concept in older games called sticky melee, the idea was to range into melee due to the fact there are no gap closers.

I can sticky most of the players if not all of them in duel wield, it's not the snare that's the problem, it's the players. (I don't use spin to win)

Now some snares can come down to the 30 percent mark, but honestly players really need to get over the fact.

Remove gap closers and see how quick people will want snares back. Or create your distance by being talented.

Honestly there's just massive e-peens in this game with no prior MMO experience so the nuance and understanding of game design is lacking.

Some people need to QTS and understand there are viable playstyles outside theirs.

Old schoolers like me aren't having it any more.

Snares can stay but I also want gap closers to work more like streak! Just point+click so they can be used in a variety of situations. It would solve a multitude of pain points for the community concerning mobility on melee toons.

iCaliban

Id rather have snares than rolly polly stam toons dodging everything, then using the tiniest bit of rock to LOS and avoid all attacks.

thankyourat

Major expedition should cancel out snares to where you move at base speed if you are snared while you have the major expedition buff active. It's crazy to believe snares are not a huge problem though. This problem is amplified when fighting outnumbered to where players in these Zergs will simply snare you so their Zerg can stay on top of you the whole fight. Without being able to effectively use line of sight when outnumbered means you're chances of winning that engagement or at least have a enjoyable experience in the fight is low.

VikingBerserker

Haashhtaag wrote: »

No snares are a huge problem and to even deny that or rationalize why they are not a problem is naive and ignorant.

Do you play melee?

Knootewoot

You probably don't play a magblade. Snared means death most of the times.

ChunkyCat

Sypherioth wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Anyone who regularly plays BGs, especially in the higher MMR bracket, knows that snares are indeed a problem.

The premade meta is to stack as many snares/immobilizes on your opponents and aoe them down.

No the premade meta is stack as many aoe as possible because BG have tight spaces (Many aoe happen to be snaring to). And with that go in full armor because focused fire wins anyways. You think snare matters if wardens come rushing in with their bombing? you think snare matters if there is a leap + soul tether at the the right time? You think snares matter when 2 players use the staff ulti and one uses dw tornado?? It's just to much dmg in the first place. Combine any big aoe ulti and people drop fast. All about team synergy and team fighting here. And the way the team is set up as a team and not as individual player.

You trolling?

Warden “bombs”, leaps, soul tethers all have snares / roots / or stuns.

That’s what makes the so effective, otherwise we’d all get out of the way >,>

validifyedneb18_ESO

when all you need to do to win a fight is spam CC, there is clearly something wrong.

Sypherioth

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Anyone who regularly plays BGs, especially in the higher MMR bracket, knows that snares are indeed a problem.

The premade meta is to stack as many snares/immobilizes on your opponents and aoe them down.

No the premade meta is stack as many aoe as possible because BG have tight spaces (Many aoe happen to be snaring to). And with that go in full armor because focused fire wins anyways. You think snare matters if wardens come rushing in with their bombing? you think snare matters if there is a leap + soul tether at the the right time? You think snares matter when 2 players use the staff ulti and one uses dw tornado?? It's just to much dmg in the first place. Combine any big aoe ulti and people drop fast. All about team synergy and team fighting here. And the way the team is set up as a team and not as individual player.

You trolling?

Warden “bombs”, leaps, soul tethers all have snares / roots / or stuns.

That’s what makes the so effective, otherwise we’d all get out of the way >,>

Yes and all snares come after the actual skill activation. Not before unless you use another skill to apply snare first. But whatever. Keep thinking im trolling. As long as I dont need snares to kill other players they are not OP. Take the snare from my poison spray away any day and ill show you why snares are not OP in BG. Litterly im not even using it for the snare… More tot ake NB out of cloack and do do massive aoe damage when people dont watch me.

People need to stop thinking that they can face tank 4 players in BG do damage and be mobile. Also people need to stop think that snares are the problem if 4 players use ulti at same times.

You know what actually is the most sad about all these snare cries?? That you can stack swift. you can use dreugh king slayer set. You can use gryphon set. You can use the steed. you can use sprint. you can put on a set that cause sprint to add major expedition. You can use speed potions. Or you gonna tell me this is just BS to? You can basicly cancel the snares if you want.

But it comes at a price. And I guess this is the major issue for the ones crying.

Sypherioth

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

when all you need to do to win a fight is spam CC, there is clearly something wrong.

You don't need snare to win a fight omg. Every class has easy acces to snares. Basicly every team use them. It's just BS to say that it's all you need to win a fight… Because only 1 team wins no?

Let me try picture this situation correctly:

Team 1 and 2 both use AOE snares because well they basicly are everywhere. What you think will happen? one team has advantage over the other because some hocus pocus?

Koolio

I’ve played a melee DW Magblade for so long without a snare removal that I barely use them on any character.

Stamblade Yes

And technically Templar.


But other than that the reduction to the duration of snared has made a huge difference. Especially on a Stam sorc.

Still mad about lotus fan snare nerf though lol

Rikumaru

Sypherioth wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Anyone who regularly plays BGs, especially in the higher MMR bracket, knows that snares are indeed a problem.

The premade meta is to stack as many snares/immobilizes on your opponents and aoe them down.

No the premade meta is stack as many aoe as possible because BG have tight spaces (Many aoe happen to be snaring to). And with that go in full armor because focused fire wins anyways. You think snare matters if wardens come rushing in with their bombing? you think snare matters if there is a leap + soul tether at the the right time? You think snares matter when 2 players use the staff ulti and one uses dw tornado?? It's just to much dmg in the first place. Combine any big aoe ulti and people drop fast. All about team synergy and team fighting here. And the way the team is set up as a team and not as individual player.

Yeah, people are picking ice wardens for the AOE damage and totally not for the snares and free roots. Yeah it's definitely not that.

likecats

Like it or not, snares will most likely be nerfed next patch. I think I saw a dev comment a while back, but can't specifically remember.

The combat system will not break down because of a snare nerf. It is mostly a matter of preference, do you like slow gameplay or fast gameplay. Most of the feedback edges towards fast gameplay, and ZOS should make an executive decision on what they think the players want. At the very least, they should make snares additive, so they can be cancelled out by speed buffs. Snares being multiplicative is a very huge reason why they are so imbalanced, you mathematically can't beat them with speed buffs.

So have fun spamming snares while they're OP!

Zevrro

Snares are frustrating enough to play against when you have access to snare removal but play a class that doesn't and its game over in most fights.

Sypherioth

Rikumaru wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Anyone who regularly plays BGs, especially in the higher MMR bracket, knows that snares are indeed a problem.

The premade meta is to stack as many snares/immobilizes on your opponents and aoe them down.

No the premade meta is stack as many aoe as possible because BG have tight spaces (Many aoe happen to be snaring to). And with that go in full armor because focused fire wins anyways. You think snare matters if wardens come rushing in with their bombing? you think snare matters if there is a leap + soul tether at the the right time? You think snares matter when 2 players use the staff ulti and one uses dw tornado?? It's just to much dmg in the first place. Combine any big aoe ulti and people drop fast. All about team synergy and team fighting here. And the way the team is set up as a team and not as individual player.

Yeah, people are picking ice wardens for the AOE damage and totally not for the snares and free roots. Yeah it's definitely not that.

Nah who wants a 10k+ tooltip aoe dmg which is easily paired with other skills for those who can count. I wonder why a comparable skill need to have 8 sec to trigger and less dmg vs single player. But thats just me I guess.

Play nord if you hate ice snare and alot of problems from ice wardens will vanish in thin air. Frost staff to btw

Sypherioth

likecats wrote: »

Like it or not, snares will most likely be nerfed next patch. I think I saw a dev comment a while back, but can't specifically remember.

The combat system will not break down because of a snare nerf. It is mostly a matter of preference, do you like slow gameplay or fast gameplay. Most of the feedback edges towards fast gameplay, and ZOS should make an executive decision on what they think the players want. At the very least, they should make snares additive, so they can be cancelled out by speed buffs. Snares being multiplicative is a very huge reason why they are so imbalanced, you mathematically can't beat them with speed buffs.

So have fun spamming snares while they're OP!

Uhmm no because if you completely cancel out snares they would have no use. Im talking about making your debuffed speed still on par with normal speed.

Qbiken

I'd rather have the Torug's Pact werewolfs abusing the enchant bug back than this snare/root meta......

Sypherioth

Why snares are not a problem:

They all are on 4sec. Except aoe ground targeted ones but they don't reduce 40% but only 30% so any major expedition which is for 4 sec to will help alot here. Also see major expedition is mostly 4sec. Then we come to the point where every weapon skill line for dmg has snares. Every class has snares. There is caltrops. Forward momentum takes 4 sec also.

Now applying snares is maybe a bit cheaper and for some class very cheap but which snares are that? And which classes because take that in mind to. If you mean the one from status effects… Go nord please. Because how I see it most snares have a pretty expensive skill.

Acid spray 3k cost stam in medium. 4 sec snare for 40% reduction. Spam this and resource are gone in no time. is great burst tho on high dmg build.

Then criritcal charge can apply snare. 3.6K cost but well its gap closer so snare or not it gonna hit you if not dodge it.

Then you have rending slashes. This one is cheaper at 2k cost but its only for apply bleed mostly and has 40% reduction at 4sec.

The only realy cheap snare is the chilled status. So snares are no problem if you ask me.

Also I wonder how many topics gonna pop up if loads of people gonna abuse shock status. Getting concussed because some stupid lightning dmg hits you. It's free cc also and you wont see it coming.

likecats

Sypherioth wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Like it or not, snares will most likely be nerfed next patch. I think I saw a dev comment a while back, but can't specifically remember.

The combat system will not break down because of a snare nerf. It is mostly a matter of preference, do you like slow gameplay or fast gameplay. Most of the feedback edges towards fast gameplay, and ZOS should make an executive decision on what they think the players want. At the very least, they should make snares additive, so they can be cancelled out by speed buffs. Snares being multiplicative is a very huge reason why they are so imbalanced, you mathematically can't beat them with speed buffs.

So have fun spamming snares while they're OP!

Uhmm no because if you completely cancel out snares they would have no use. Im talking about making your debuffed speed still on par with normal speed.

Uhmm no, if your character moves are 140% of normal speed, 40% snare would bring that person down the 100% speed. I see use.

Using your logic, I could conversely argue that speed buffs are useless because you can use snares to cancel them out. But that's not true.

Anyway, pointless arguing, snares will probably get nerfed and for good cause. They won't be removed, they will still have a place in this game, but they won't be as blatantly OP as they are now.

Rikumaru

Sypherioth wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Anyone who regularly plays BGs, especially in the higher MMR bracket, knows that snares are indeed a problem.

The premade meta is to stack as many snares/immobilizes on your opponents and aoe them down.

No the premade meta is stack as many aoe as possible because BG have tight spaces (Many aoe happen to be snaring to). And with that go in full armor because focused fire wins anyways. You think snare matters if wardens come rushing in with their bombing? you think snare matters if there is a leap + soul tether at the the right time? You think snares matter when 2 players use the staff ulti and one uses dw tornado?? It's just to much dmg in the first place. Combine any big aoe ulti and people drop fast. All about team synergy and team fighting here. And the way the team is set up as a team and not as individual player.

You trolling?

Warden “bombs”, leaps, soul tethers all have snares / roots / or stuns.

That’s what makes the so effective, otherwise we’d all get out of the way >,>

Yes and all snares come after the actual skill activation. Not before unless you use another skill to apply snare first. But whatever. Keep thinking im trolling. As long as I dont need snares to kill other players they are not OP. Take the snare from my poison spray away any day and ill show you why snares are not OP in BG. Litterly im not even using it for the snare… More tot ake NB out of cloack and do do massive aoe damage when people dont watch me.

People need to stop thinking that they can face tank 4 players in BG do damage and be mobile. Also people need to stop think that snares are the problem if 4 players use ulti at same times.

You know what actually is the most sad about all these snare cries?? That you can stack swift. you can use dreugh king slayer set. You can use gryphon set. You can use the steed. you can use sprint. you can put on a set that cause sprint to add major expedition. You can use speed potions. Or you gonna tell me this is just BS to? You can basicly cancel the snares if you want.

But it comes at a price. And I guess this is the major issue for the ones crying.

Yeah you really can't do that. Snare's reduction apply after your speed buffs meaning, if you had a 170% movement speed modifier (major exp + sprint) your overall speed after lets say a 50% snare would be 85% movespeed. So no, you cannot cancel out snares without snare removal. And all of the above you just started literally got nerfed into oblivion in nerfmire.

Talking of how things come at a price, you know what doesn't? Snares. You literally can make any build and you will randomly have strong snares. Heroic slash, 60% snare. NB, 50% snare from fear. Templar, 70% from jabs and 30% from cleanse. DK, 30% from DoT. Any dw stam build (95% of stam builds atm), 40% snare. Also warden. Don't think that one needs any explaining.

Sypherioth

likecats wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Like it or not, snares will most likely be nerfed next patch. I think I saw a dev comment a while back, but can't specifically remember.

The combat system will not break down because of a snare nerf. It is mostly a matter of preference, do you like slow gameplay or fast gameplay. Most of the feedback edges towards fast gameplay, and ZOS should make an executive decision on what they think the players want. At the very least, they should make snares additive, so they can be cancelled out by speed buffs. Snares being multiplicative is a very huge reason why they are so imbalanced, you mathematically can't beat them with speed buffs.

So have fun spamming snares while they're OP!

Uhmm no because if you completely cancel out snares they would have no use. Im talking about making your debuffed speed still on par with normal speed.

Uhmm no, if your character moves are 140% of normal speed, snare would bring that person down the 100% speed. I see use.

Using your logic, I could conversely argue that speed buffs are useless because you can use snares to cancel them out. But that's not true.

Anyway, pointless arguing, snares will probably get nerfed and for good cause. They won't be removed, they will still have a place in this game, but they won't be as blatantly OP as they are now.

But you can't cancel out speed buffs either with snares. You just reducing effectiveness. You have your speed vs players speed and snare in between. So if a guy snares me while i am at 120% combat speed and he is at 100% combat speed all i have to do is snare him back and profit. Why isn't this balanced?

Realy explain me how it can be overpowered if one equals out the other. Snares are cheaper to apply then taking them away. Yes same for every sort of CC basicly. Maybe don't focus on snare removal to much but rather focus the guy who snares you.

Anyways high rank BG will gonna be a pain in the ass always if you don't have a fixed team with amazing synergy. Also any 4 big aoe ultis coordinated gonna wipe the floor of whole teams.

Also whatever let them nerf the snares I don't give a crap if they do because i will have new topics to discuss in. Reducing something only gonna make something else shine more. It will become new meta and forum gets full of new cries.

ecru

ITT a bunch of people who have never even considered playing a build that has to get into melee range to be effective talks about how snares are just fine because they can move inside of their own ice blockades and rituals and still be effective outside of other's ice blockades and rituals. Really makes you think.

likecats

Sypherioth wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Like it or not, snares will most likely be nerfed next patch. I think I saw a dev comment a while back, but can't specifically remember.

The combat system will not break down because of a snare nerf. It is mostly a matter of preference, do you like slow gameplay or fast gameplay. Most of the feedback edges towards fast gameplay, and ZOS should make an executive decision on what they think the players want. At the very least, they should make snares additive, so they can be cancelled out by speed buffs. Snares being multiplicative is a very huge reason why they are so imbalanced, you mathematically can't beat them with speed buffs.

So have fun spamming snares while they're OP!

Uhmm no because if you completely cancel out snares they would have no use. Im talking about making your debuffed speed still on par with normal speed.

Uhmm no, if your character moves are 140% of normal speed, snare would bring that person down the 100% speed. I see use.

Using your logic, I could conversely argue that speed buffs are useless because you can use snares to cancel them out. But that's not true.

Anyway, pointless arguing, snares will probably get nerfed and for good cause. They won't be removed, they will still have a place in this game, but they won't be as blatantly OP as they are now.

But you can't cancel out speed buffs either with snares. You just reducing effectiveness. You have your speed vs players speed and snare in between. So if a guy snares me while i am at 120% combat speed and he is at 100% combat speed all i have to do is snare him back and profit. Why isn't this balanced?

Realy explain me how it can be overpowered if one equals out the other. Snares are cheaper to apply then taking them away. Yes same for every sort of CC basicly. Maybe don't focus on snare removal to much but rather focus the guy who snares you.

Anyways high rank BG will gonna be a pain in the ass always if you don't have a fixed team with amazing synergy. Also any 4 big aoe ultis coordinated gonna wipe the floor of whole teams.

Also whatever let them nerf the snares I don't give a crap if they do because i will have new topics to discuss in. Reducing something only gonna make something else shine more. It will become new meta and forum gets full of new cries.

Snares are overpowered because they are calculated multiplicatively. In every practical way, they outscale speed buffs dramatically. The other guy who just replied to you explains it as well.

I do see your point about snares being available for everyone (therefore being balanced), just like CC's are. This ultimately comes down to how you prefer combat to be.

If you read back to my original post, whether you prefer snare meta or not, is mostly a matter of preference regarding if you like fast-gameplay or slow gameplay. One is not inferior to the other, but the majority of people seem to prefer fast gameplay.

Unless you can argue why normal speed combat (since speed has already been nerfed) will break the overall combat system, there is no reason why ZOS shouldn't follow through with what seems to be the majority consensus among those who provide feedback.

Strider__Roshin

Snares really make PvP in this game unenjoyable. Who wants to play a game where it feels like you're walking through mud the whole time.

Aedrion

Lol!

List all the skills that have a snare. It's like what? 20+?

Now list all the counters. Maybe 4.

Keeping in mind that snares apply after increased speed calculation and that means there tons of skills that make you crawl around while there's barely any ways to cure them.

frostz417

If you think snares are just fine how they are it’s very likely you’re just a zergling who has never fought out numbered or you just don’t even PvP often. I’m not arguing. It’s a fact

Trancestor

Why do you want to keep something in the game that makes it less fun and fast paced? Oh wait you probably play a class or build that benefits from it, so you dont mind if the majority of the player base suffers as result. Just another selfish little **** lobbying for himself on the forums with no prespective of multiple classes and playstyles. "Oh i can just ball of lightning and shield away while those dumb non sorcs waste all of their stamina to try escape that permafrost ice wall root spam and die like idiots lmao! I only play one class and think i can talk for the whole community!" - just an example of a typical forum poster.

Rake

I agree with OP.
Snares are not a problem if you zerg ppl down 20v1.