Why snares are not a problem

Baphomet

Hands down, the real problem is largely due to the fact that people have just become too accostumed to being able to dodge and outrun everything over the years.

Earlier snares were a non-issue, but now that they suddenly have an impact on movement and mobility, people can't play the game anymore?

Seriously, it's a matter of improving your stategies and learning to play under the new conditions. I mean, what's the point of snares, if you can easily avoid them altogether?

Haashhtaag

No snares are a huge problem. [edit]

[edited for non-constructive commentary]

Baphomet

Depends how far up the learning curve one has climbed.

I am not saying that they can't be annoying or that one or two abilities might not be overperforming, but generally speaking, snares must have a significant impact, and they do have counterplay.

SodanTok

I dont remember the times snares werent problem, do tell. Only thing I would agree is that certain people feel snares are bigger problem now is because those certain people basically forgot snares exist during 8s forward momentum meta. Snares were much much worse before. Just gapcloser spamming could halt any movement.

brandonv516

Maybe Vvardenfell started ruining everything. I'm going with that.

Sypherioth

Lol want my list of problems? because all the *** I had is to long. but also made me come to the conclusion that the list is freaking long so it must mean there is realy a rock paper scissor… If all keep continueing im gonna put down my list of my findings about what counters what. It's funny…

And no snares are not overpowered. They are there because its easy to maintain movement speed if want to which also make snares less of a problem.

A root is probably the most overpowered thing because learning curve. But learn to recognize the difference. I speak from own experience that it took me pretty long to deal with this and it still does at times. But it is only because I act wrongly on the immobilization and waste stamina.

Also many didnt play at the beginning i guess. The game has improved tenfold. Because many things have actual cooldowns now and max targets to hit. Don't make me bring up memories how it couldve still been....

Qbiken

The imbalance lies within the fact that I've to make a much bigger investment to counter numerous snares than the opposite individual has to invest into snares to slow/root me down.

ZOS stated that if people wanted mobility you would have to heavily invest into this. I only think it's fair that this goes for the opposite part as well. If you want to slow someone, you've to heavily invest into this as well. And slotting one skill or a specific weapon isn't a "heavily investment" in my opinion.

CatchMeTrolling

Snares are absolutely a problem and have been a problem, it’s not all of a sudden. People complained about them before the class reps was even created. You could go into a Fengrush stream and see him going on about being snared down mid fight.

Casul

People couldn’t tell they were snared because they were getting 1 shot by proc sets. Now we can tell.

Sypherioth

Qbiken wrote: »

The imbalance lies within the fact that I've to make a much bigger investment to counter numerous snares than the opposite individual has to invest into snares to slow/root me down.

ZOS stated that if people wanted mobility you would have to heavily invest into this. I only think it's fair that this goes for the opposite part as well. If you want to slow someone, you've to heavily invest into this as well. And slotting one skill or a specific weapon isn't a "heavily investment" in my opinion.

It's basicly the slow from ice thats a problem. And it seems the staff meta. So thats why youy see loads of snares. Also cc got more usefull in pvp then just plain dmg in many cases. So more people started running cc.

Disabling Effects:
A disabling effect is one that prevents a character or opponent from attacking. Players can break out of this state by using Break Free.

Stun:
A stunned character will be slumped over while kneeling. An example of a skill that stuns is Crystal Blast.
Off Balance


A Fire Mage that was set off-balance. Note the white swirls.
An off-balance character will stand dizzily for a short time. Opponents whose heavy attacks are blocked will become off-balance, as will some opponents after charging (such as Kagouti). Using a heavy attack on an off-balance opponent will knock them down. An example of an ability that can set opponents off-balance is Lava Whip.




Partially Disabling Effects:

Some effects are less severe than full disabling effects, and still allow characters to attack in some form. Breaking free does not remove these effects.

Root:
Rooted or Immobilized characters cannot walk or run, but they are still able to attack, block and cast spells. An ability that roots is Dark Talons.
Players can escape a rooting effect by dodge rolling.
Bolt Escape allows a player to move, but the rooting effect will still be active on them. Similarly, NPC shock mages will be able to teleport while rooted.

Snare:
Snare effects reduce a character's movement speed, but do not otherwise hinder the character's ability to use attacks or other abilities. Snaring appears as a gray cloud at the character's feet. This very common effect can be triggered by any cold damage or by abilities such as Hidden Blade.
The only way to remove a snare is to dispel the effect with an ability such as Purge or Retreating Maneuver.

Not sure if this is still 100% correct tho about dodge roll:

Area of Effect attacks are often indicated as red areas. Roll dodging allows the player to roll in a given direction in order to escape an area of effect or break free of a rooting effect. The Stamina cost of dodging depends on the player's level. When rolling, all incoming attacks will automatically miss. Roll dodging also disables collision with all NPCs, so you can roll right through any enemy. This is useful for escaping if you're surrounded, but can also be used outside of combat to get past NPCs who are in your way. Performing a roll dodge will give the player dodge roll fatigue, increasing the cost of consecutive rolls until the effect dissipates.
Damage from ground target AOEs like Wall of Elements or Caltrops and effects that are on or inside characters such as Daedric Curse cannot be dodged.
Damage from magical AOEs such as Drain Power and beams such as Soul Assault or the heavy attacks from restoration or lightning staves cannot be dodged.

Grabbed from https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Combat because im lazy.

casparian

Baphomet wrote: »

Seriously, it's a matter of improving your stategies and learning to play under the new conditions. I mean, what's the point of snares, if you can easily avoid them altogether?

You're right, mobility control shouldn't be able to be easily avoided altogether.

That's not what anyone is complaining about, though. The issue is the enormous imbalance between the number of skills (dozens and dozens) that easily and at very little cost apply snares and/or roots, often on top of other powerful effects, and the number of skills (just a few, some of which aren't even available to some classes/specs) that free you from snares.

The fact that enemies can snare/root me if I'm not careful and find myself out of position, and that this is punishing to me, is a good thing and should stay in the game. Mobility is extremely powerful and so a counter to mobility needs to exist.

The fact that enemies can snare/root me from pretty much anywhere in pretty much any situation unless I am in the middle of a ball group (and sometimes even then), at very low cost, without even trying, and that I can't really do anything about it unless I'm a heavy armor stam user or a vampire, and that even if I do manage to get unsnared they can instantly re-snare me at very low cost, without even trying, and that I can't really do anything about it -- that is a problem.

leeux

I'd prefer more stuns over the snare fest we have atm... at least stuns require reaction to break free and some minor measure of skill, and they give immunity for some time...

Even with the bugs due lag and not being able to break free, IMO they're preferable to the constant slog in deep mud water we have atm!

EDIT: I play magicka builds and choose not to be vampire, so that taints/biases my experience... the fact that we don't have snare dealing abilities without having to be vampire is really *really* dumb.

Crixus8000

People have adapted, it's spamming snare immunity every 2-4 seconds or being unable to move. And In my opinion it makes the game boring and sluggish.

Snares should be a choice, a skillfully timed use to get a kill, or prevent a chase ect, not something that is freely given on way to many skills and has little counterplay. Why should snares be free and be so impactful when I have to actually make the choice to spam a useless skill every few seconds just to be able to move, it's not balanced and limits build diversity.

Sypherioth

leeux wrote: »

I'd prefer more stuns over the snare fest we have atm... at least stuns require reaction to break free and some minor measure of skill, and they give immunity for some time...

Even with the bugs due lag and not being able to break free, IMO they're preferable to the constant slog in deep mud water we have atm!

EDIT: I play magicka builds and choose not to be vampire, so that taints/biases my experience... the fact that we don't have snare dealing abilities without having to be vampire is really *really* dumb.

So you expect to when melee gets at you he should not have tools to keep you in range continuesly? You should be able to roam free like 90% of the time? Or whenever some melee gets to your ranged char you should not be able to keep him ranged before he arrivés at you?

Remove the snares and eso becomes range fest again. Now melee fights are usefull because you can stay onto people. Easy snare removal will only reduce dmg melee can do in pvp.

MalagenR

It's all the same folks who constantly come to the forums and cry that are crying about snares. These folks have nothing else to do but cry all day on forums.

Alucardo

Nobody likes losing control of their character, be it snares or stuns. If you enjoy games that revolve around CC chaining in order to kill something, then go play WoW.
Personally, I hate that tactic. I think they are still important and don't want them to go away, but I do want them toned down.

leeux

Sypherioth wrote: »

leeux wrote: »

I'd prefer more stuns over the snare fest we have atm... at least stuns require reaction to break free and some minor measure of skill, and they give immunity for some time...

Even with the bugs due lag and not being able to break free, IMO they're preferable to the constant slog in deep mud water we have atm!

EDIT: I play magicka builds and choose not to be vampire, so that taints/biases my experience... the fact that we don't have snare dealing abilities without having to be vampire is really *really* dumb.

So you expect to when melee gets at you he should not have tools to keep you in range continuesly? You should be able to roam free like 90% of the time? Or whenever some melee gets to your ranged char you should not be able to keep him ranged before he arrivés at you?

Remove the snares and eso becomes range fest again. Now melee fights are usefull because you can stay onto people. Easy snare removal will only reduce dmg melee can do in pvp. Like stamina needs that..

But we have many if not most of the cases where snares are an issue that are range-applied... so that contradicts with the melee scenario you're positing.

I expect that I won't lose control over my character actions constantly... being able to position and move and react is part of skillful play IMO... and wanting you opponent to be immobile is just wanting to rely on a crutch.

Also I expect that I shouldn't have to become something I don't want my characters to be just be able to deal with it.

IMO snares applied from range should be more focused and require sacrifices... like having to waste a slot on your bars just to have a range applying snaring ability for crowd control...

Melee example is a different scenario, and in essence, conceptually should be OK to have snaring abilities applied while on melee... no problem with that, because it was part of the balance philosophy since start (rock-paper-scissors.)

Sypherioth

Crixus8000 wrote: »

People have adapted, it's spamming snare immunity every 2-4 seconds or being unable to move. And In my opinion it makes the game boring and sluggish.

Snares should be a choice, a skillfully timed use to get a kill, or prevent a chase ect, not something that is freely given on way to many skills and has little counterplay. Why should snares be free and be so impactful when I have to actually make the choice to spam a useless skill every few seconds just to be able to move, it's not balanced and limits build diversity.

I can still fear you. Stun you while you snare me and turn the game arround. I can still heal up when snared. I can still do ranged dmg when snared. I just move a bit slower. So whats the problem? If you don't have the window to kill someone because of snares you will never get the window pretty much. If you not build to escape fights then don't expect to escape fights.

Also unable to move is immobilization. Use dodge roll to break it. Break free wont work for this. So don't waste all the stamina on that because then youll be a sitting duck. (personal experience in the learning curve)

Ragnarock41

Snares are somewhat problematic however the people that want all the snares gone have no idea what they're talking about.

Sypherioth

leeux wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

leeux wrote: »

I'd prefer more stuns over the snare fest we have atm... at least stuns require reaction to break free and some minor measure of skill, and they give immunity for some time...

Even with the bugs due lag and not being able to break free, IMO they're preferable to the constant slog in deep mud water we have atm!

EDIT: I play magicka builds and choose not to be vampire, so that taints/biases my experience... the fact that we don't have snare dealing abilities without having to be vampire is really *really* dumb.

So you expect to when melee gets at you he should not have tools to keep you in range continuesly? You should be able to roam free like 90% of the time? Or whenever some melee gets to your ranged char you should not be able to keep him ranged before he arrivés at you?

Remove the snares and eso becomes range fest again. Now melee fights are usefull because you can stay onto people. Easy snare removal will only reduce dmg melee can do in pvp. Like stamina needs that..

But we have many if not most of the cases where snares are an issue that are range-applied... so that contradicts with the melee scenario you're positing.

I expect that I won't lose control over my character actions constantly... being able to position and move and react is part of skillful play IMO... and wanting you opponent to be immobile is just wanting to rely on a crutch.

Also I expect that I shouldn't have to become something I don't want my characters to be just be able to deal with it.

IMO snares applied from range should be more focused and require sacrifices... like having to waste a slot on your bars just to have a range applying snaring ability for crowd control...

Melee example is a different scenario, and in essence, conceptually should be OK to have snaring abilities applied while on melee... no problem with that, because it was part of the balance philosophy since start (rock-paper-scissors.)

It does not. I just showed how snares are needed in pvp for everyone. If you remove snares from ranged then also should be removed from melee and vica versa. Snares are fine because you can still move and dodge roll and block and sprint to neglect the snare a bit. Stuns are more dangerous imo. A stun means you got a 1-2sec window to drop someone. A snare wont give you this time.

Sypherioth

I hate snares… This ranged guy killed me before I reached him.
I hate snares… This melee guy killed me because he stay on me and i could't get away.
I hate snares… I got killed because could't get away from the fight after try tanking it out.

All these scenarios have one thing in common. It was a done deal anyways with or without the snares.

The ranged guy probably killed you anyways coz his damage. The melee guy probably had gap closers and would reach you anyways. And for the tank the fight just was done.

Iskiab

Snares are fine, the only valid complaints are about snares attached to abilities that already do a lot like puncturing sweeps.

Sypherioth

Iskiab wrote: »

Snares are fine, the only valid complaints are about snares attached to abilities that already do a lot like puncturing sweeps.

Ye well I died coz of that combo to yes and still do at times. But it's because I was dumb and didn't think correcly XD Not because of the snares. Positioning is so important vs templars with jabs.

Crixus8000

Sypherioth wrote: »

I can still fear you. Stun you while you snare me and turn the game arround. I can still heal up when snared. I can still do ranged dmg when snared. I just move a bit slower. So whats the problem? If you don't have the window to kill someone because of snares you will never get the window pretty much.

I'm stam, not ranged so having someone almost dead only to get snared to a stop, need to swap weapons and use immunity over and over can certainly make getting the kill harder, and ye when snared against one guy sure you can heal up, when you have multiple people on you and you need to waste so much time just using immunity it makes your survivability a lot worse.

Sypherioth wrote: »

If you not build to escape fights then don't expect to escape fights.

I play a stamsorc, the class that is supposed to be able to escape fights and be fast, well since they destroyed speed and snare immunity I haven't been escaping much at all, I even tried a full speed setup and snares still countered me.

Sypherioth wrote: »

Also unable to move is immobilization. Use dodge roll to break it. Break free wont work for this. So don't waste all the stamina on that because then youll be a sitting duck. (personal experience in the learning curve)

Ye I know how immobilizations work, and powerful snares basically do the same thing. Also snares are so buggy and often just ignore immunity (poisons do this all the time) making me need to spam snare immunity even more often than the ridiculous 4 seconds I normally do.

Sypherioth

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

I can still fear you. Stun you while you snare me and turn the game arround. I can still heal up when snared. I can still do ranged dmg when snared. I just move a bit slower. So whats the problem? If you don't have the window to kill someone because of snares you will never get the window pretty much.

I'm stam, not ranged so having someone almost dead only to get snared to a stop, need to swap weapons and use immunity over and over can certainly make getting the kill harder, and ye when snared against one guy sure you can heal up, when you have multiple people on you and you need to waste so much time just using immunity it makes your survivability a lot worse.

Sypherioth wrote: »

If you not build to escape fights then don't expect to escape fights.

I play a stamsorc, the class that is supposed to be able to escape fights and be fast, well since they destroyed speed and snare immunity I haven't been escaping much at all, I even tried a full speed setup and snares still countered me.

Sypherioth wrote: »

Also unable to move is immobilization. Use dodge roll to break it. Break free wont work for this. So don't waste all the stamina on that because then youll be a sitting duck. (personal experience in the learning curve)

Ye I know how immobilizations work, and powerful snares basically do the same thing. Also snares are so buggy and often just ignore immunity (poisons do this all the time) making me need to spam snare immunity even more often than the ridiculous 4 seconds I normally do.

Bolt escape etc?? It always travels same distance no? How can this be no escape for any sorc. In my book it still is way better then NB invisibility. I know NB has shade. But thats very situational imo and sorc still beats that with their escape tool. Being aware of line of sight is very usefull to in all cases.

Crixus8000

Sypherioth wrote: »

Bolt escape etc?? It always travels same distance no? How can this be no escape for any sorc.

As a stamsorc I get 2 casts only, and it's such a clunky skill. if terain is higher than the part I'm on it hardly moves me, if terrain is slightly lower then I basiicaly go to a stop for 1-2 seconds, sometimes it doesn't even work. Also the distance really isnt that far, especially with people spamming snares all the time, me having to keep spamming immunity makes me much slower.

Sypherioth

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

Bolt escape etc?? It always travels same distance no? How can this be no escape for any sorc.

As a stamsorc I get 2 casts only, and it's such a clunky skill. if terain is higher than the part I'm on it hardly moves me, if terrain is slightly lower then I basiicaly go to a stop for 1-2 seconds, sometimes it doesn't even work. Also the distance really isnt that far, especially with people spamming snares all the time, me having to keep spamming immunity makes me much slower.

I knew this answer would come. I have 2 cloaks and gone is my magicka. So yes there are moments I cant escape but then I made the wrong decisions in the first place. But 2 bolt escapes and sprint should get you away in most cases... Be sure to get out of line of sight asap. Ofcourse there always will be people that invested in movement speed or they are mag builds and they maybe catch up to you.

Also my cloak get ruined by alot. I always need do dodge roll into cloak to even make it worthwhile but it works. And the terrain helps me so much with that just because when out of sight you most likely are safe. Unless some stealthed guy spots you ofc.

And yes sometimes im snared in the middle of a fight and just melt. But then there is just to much dmg at once anyways.

JusticeSouldier

Haashhtaag wrote: »

No snares are a huge problem and to even deny that or rationalize why they are not a problem is naive and ignorant.

snares always were a real problem in eso.
but much less people understood that before and also less people used that in pvp.
there are much more skilled players nowadays - so u're snared all the time, and many classes have no counters to that.
very few and poor options only to be exact, so it became a big hole in the system.

ChunkyCat

Anyone who regularly plays BGs, especially in the higher MMR bracket, knows that snares are indeed a problem.

The premade meta is to stack as many snares/immobilizes on your opponents and aoe them down.

Sypherioth

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Anyone who regularly plays BGs, especially in the higher MMR bracket, knows that snares are indeed a problem.

The premade meta is to stack as many snares/immobilizes on your opponents and aoe them down.

No the premade meta is stack as many aoe as possible because BG have tight spaces (Many aoe happen to be snaring to). And with that go in full armor because focused fire wins anyways. You think snare matters if wardens come rushing in with their bombing? you think snare matters if there is a leap + soul tether at the the right time? You think snares matter when 2 players use the staff ulti and one uses dw tornado?? It's just to much dmg in the first place. Combine any big aoe ulti and people drop fast. All about team synergy and team fighting here. And the way the team is set up as a team and not as individual player.

Xvorg

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Snares are somewhat problematic however the people that want all the snares gone have no idea what they're talking about.

Especially those who in their lives have tried DK and Templar