Why does ZOS force PVP on people who want nothing to do with it?

perogwin_ESO

I have been trying to finish the Skyshard Global Achievement for the furniture item and was horrified to discover you needed the shards from all 3 alliance areas. I do not PVP, I hate PVP, and honestly wish it wasn't even part of a game or at least a completely separate world server, but people enjoy it so live and let live I say. Though it is beyond me why would they put PVE content in a zone that then forced people to PVP? So I waited till the server was quiet, then I went into the zone on the lowest population version of the campaign I could find to try and get what I needed, which worked fine, till I realized that 4 skyshards were impossible to get without a full campaign going on because they were locked behind the gates of the other 2 factions. It is bad enough to put PVE in a PVP zone, to force people to have to travel through a PVP zone, but then to lock the items behind gates that cant be open without being involved in PVP is ridiculous! What were they thinking? Why do they hate PVEers so much? If it was just an achievement then I could just say forget it, but then they decide to attach one of the cooler housing items to it.


With all the changes to the game, I think its time for PVP to be removed from the Skyshard Achievement much like Craglorn is, stop punishing PVEers especially when it is such a simple thing to change. Even better make it a global account achievement if you don't want to remove the PVP zones from it so all you need is one character of each faction just to go in and get the ones behind the gates and be done with it. I have been working on this for days now I am stuck sitting in a PVP Campaign hoping that one of the gates opens and stays open long enough for me to get to it and through it , and survive all the players trying to kill me, just to get the last 4 shards I need.

Rikumaru

"Why do they hate PvEers so much?" *Has 50 billion zones for PvE only.*

Oh yeah, I hate doing PvE to get gear for PvP too. But hey, if you want to get everything in the game you gotta do everything there is to offer in the game.

TequilaFire

Here we go again. smh

Matchimus

I got this achievement 2 days ago & like completing Master Angler we have to enter a PVP zone. These 2 achievements have been the most thrilling for me. I ain't PVPing....I'm avoiding it...that is the skill required. 3 of the 4 skyshards behind those gates I got when enemy factions took the gates. Only once was it my faction and that was the first one & it was easy & boring just hanging back behind the front lines. 3 times I had to avoid both factions. Is that a skill?

technohic

They're not forcing you to get that achievement

AlienatedGoat

Real talk:

It's mainly because the guys that created ESO came from previous PvP-oriented MMOs, the best example of which is Matt Firor who headed up Dark Age of Camelot. In fact, there are many design elements in ESO PvP that came directly from DAoC.

Because of this previous game design experience and a desire to improve on the DAoC PvP design, ESO was created from the ground up as a game that was intended to have a large PvP element, and it initially touted PvP as its endgame. This was largely ignored by the wider player base after release, which was part of what influenced the creation of the "adventure zone" Craglorn (later redesigned) and its 3 trials, which formed the basis of a new PvE endgame.

As the years have passed, PvP has stayed a niche mode of play in ESO, but the game designers continue to hold fast to the idea of PvP as a crucial game element, fancying it to be like one side of a coin (with PvE on the reverse). That's why they continue to make things that are designed to push PvE'rs towards PvP and vice versa.

pod88kk

Look out horse!!!!
You're about to die and be flogged!!!!

TriangularChicken

In my experience there are generally 3 types of player in this game:
- those that PvP
- those that PvE
- those that are not good at either of above. So instead they role play or do quests and such stuff.

What makes me angry is when #3 comes to the forums and asks for nerfs, asks to remove PvP, cries about animation canceling, cries about players that are better than them, and blames ZOS for their own incompetence.

Yes, it would be nice for you if they would separate the Cyrodiil Skyshards from the achievment, but it would also be nice if you would ask like a normal human being without throwing dirt at PvP and PvPers.

Hippie4927

pod88kk wrote: »

Look out horse!!!!
You're about to die and be flogged!!!!

This horse died a long time ago and it's starting to smell!

Alucardo

PVE content? Bruh we need skyshards too. Besides, nobody is FORCING you to get that achievement, and it wouldn't be an "achievement" if you didn't have to do much to obtain it.
Great, your complaining has just put me off my dinner. I hope you're happy.

AlienatedGoat

Alucardo wrote: »

Great, your complaining has just put me off my dinner. I hope you're happy.

If random complainers on the Internet kill your appetite, you might want to log off before you starve lol

zaria

TequilaFire wrote: »

Here we go again. smh

This ZoS in one of their few brilliant master plans wanted players to to all sort of stuff.
Loads of Skyrim players who was forced into Cyrodil and never left as they enjoyed it so much.
Same with normal trials who are not so scary, do them a lot then try vet with an nice guild.
Jump is smaller than you expect.

perogwin_ESO

RealDolanTrump wrote: »

Yes, it would be nice for you if they would separate the Cyrodiil Skyshards from the achievment, but it would also be nice if you would ask like a normal human being without throwing dirt at PvP and PvPers.

I'm sorry it was not my intention to throw dirt at PVPers - the dirt was aimed at the Devs. I do even say that some people prefer that play style so live and let live.

The requirement for the PVP zone to be included in the Global Achievement should have been removed when "One Tamriel" came out. Move those 3 separate achievements to under the PVP category and let PVPers get some cool PVP themed housing item for getting the 3 achievements, that way the PVEers and PVPers get something out of it. Again when it was just an Achievement it didn't matter if it was ever done or not, but because they decided to attach a tangible housing item to it they should have reworked it.

zvavi

i dont understand the problem, you are complaining that skyshards that are supposed to be in all zones of the game, are in Cyrodil? because i dont pvp much, and yet i am going to say that i disagree with you. games shouldnt be changed on one whim or another, because there are many players, all with different opinions, even if they dont pvp. i for example, believe that cosmetics are not only cosmetics, sometimes they have meaning, and i would prefer a game with achievements and furnishings you actually need to do something and has a meaning than one that has "empty" ones.

Edaphon

Oh, the horror! An achievement that requires a little effort!

Alucardo

zvavi wrote: »

i dont understand the problem, you are complaining that skyshards that are supposed to be in all zones of the game, are in Cyrodil? because i dont pvp much, and yet i am going to say that i disagree with you. games shouldnt be changed on one whim or another, because there are many players, all with different opinions, even if they dont pvp. i for example, believe that cosmetics are not only cosmetics, sometimes they have meaning, and i would prefer a game with achievements and furnishings you actually need to do something and has a meaning than one that has "empty" ones.

AlienatedGoat

perogwin_ESO wrote: »

RealDolanTrump wrote: »

Yes, it would be nice for you if they would separate the Cyrodiil Skyshards from the achievment, but it would also be nice if you would ask like a normal human being without throwing dirt at PvP and PvPers.

I'm sorry it was not my intention to throw dirt at PVPers - the dirt was aimed at the Devs. I do even say that some people prefer that play style so live and let live.

The requirement for the PVP zone to be included in the Global Achievement should have been removed when "One Tamriel" came out. Move those 3 separate achievements to under the PVP category and let PVPers get some cool PVP themed housing item for getting the 3 achievements, that way the PVEers and PVPers get something out of it. Again when it was just an Achievement it didn't matter if it was ever done or not, but because they decided to attach a tangible housing item to it they should have reworked it.

Your premise is based on the assumption that ZOS wants PvP and PvE to be separate.

They don't.

Everything they have done points to that fact, from the requirement of playing other modes to get gear, skills, skillpoints (your shards), to the balancing of PvP and PvE together, to the inclusion of mode-exclusive cosmetics. They want people to have to play both modes to get all the things.

perogwin_ESO

zvavi wrote: »

i dont understand the problem, you are complaining that skyshards that are supposed to be in all zones of the game, are in Cyrodil? because i dont pvp much, and yet i am going to say that i disagree with you. games shouldnt be changed on one whim or another, because there are many players, all with different opinions, even if they dont pvp. i for example, believe that cosmetics are not only cosmetics, sometimes they have meaning, and i would prefer a game with achievements and furnishings you actually need to do something and has a meaning than one that has "empty" ones.

I didn't say they shouldn't be there, I said they shouldn't have been included in that specific achievement, as I said above, move those 3 Achievements to the PVP category with all the other stuff that involves Cyrodill and let the PVPers get something PVP themed for the trouble of getting all 3. All DLC/Chapters "Zones" have separate versions of that achievement that gives them specific housing rewards for completing it or completing it as part of a multi part achievement.

Alucardo

perogwin_ESO wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

i dont understand the problem, you are complaining that skyshards that are supposed to be in all zones of the game, are in Cyrodil? because i dont pvp much, and yet i am going to say that i disagree with you. games shouldnt be changed on one whim or another, because there are many players, all with different opinions, even if they dont pvp. i for example, believe that cosmetics are not only cosmetics, sometimes they have meaning, and i would prefer a game with achievements and furnishings you actually need to do something and has a meaning than one that has "empty" ones.

I didn't say they shouldn't be there, I said they shouldn't have been included in that specific achievement, as I said above, move those 3 Achievements to the PVP category with all the other stuff that involves Cyrodill and let the PVPers get something PVP themed for the trouble of getting all 3. All DLC/Chapters "Zones" have separate versions of that achievement that gives them specific housing rewards for completing it or completing it as part of a multi part achievement.

Trouble of getting all 3? Well, one of them is essentially free. As for the others, if your faction is zerging enough to get the enemy gates open, then you should have no problem ducking in to grab their skyshard.
I'd take some invisi pots with you so you can approach the skyshard undetected, then pat yourself on the back for actually earning an achievement

zvavi

perogwin_ESO wrote: »

I didn't say they shouldn't be there, I said they shouldn't have been included in that specific achievement, as I said above, move those 3 Achievements to the PVP category with all the other stuff that involves Cyrodill and let the PVPers get something PVP themed for the trouble of getting all 3. All DLC/Chapters "Zones" have separate versions of that achievement that gives them specific housing rewards for completing it or completing it as part of a multi part achievement.

there are separate achievements for every zone. and the furnishing skyshard is for when you get all skyshards (excluding dlc). which is exactly what i meant by furnishings with meanings. lets agree to disagree on this one.

perogwin_ESO

Alucardo wrote: »

Trouble of getting all 3? Well, one of them is essentially free. As for the others, if your faction is zerging enough to get the enemy gates open, then you should have no problem ducking in to grab their skyshard.
I'd take some invisi pots with you so you can approach the skyshard undetected, then pat yourself on the back for actually earning an achievement

I am only talking about the 4 (2 on each side) behind the other faction gates, I of course got the 2 behind mine. My plan was actually to do what you suggest but from what I can tell (and I have been flipping through all 3 campaigns that I have access to) AD doesn't actually do anything. I am hoping the other opposing factions might but that makes it a lot harder to get to the gates and through them before they close.

Alucardo

perogwin_ESO wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Trouble of getting all 3? Well, one of them is essentially free. As for the others, if your faction is zerging enough to get the enemy gates open, then you should have no problem ducking in to grab their skyshard.
I'd take some invisi pots with you so you can approach the skyshard undetected, then pat yourself on the back for actually earning an achievement

I am only talking about the 4 (2 on each side) behind the other faction gates, I of course got the 2 behind mine. My plan was actually to do what you suggest but from what I can tell (and I have been flipping through all 3 campaigns that I have access to) AD doesn't actually do anything.

You're AD? Oh god, no wonder you're frustrated. Good luck, you'll need it.

VaranisArano

Because ZOS wants players to try out different parts of the game. Maybe they learn to like it, maybe they don't. Either way, if you don't incentivize players to try new things, most won't go far from their confort zone.

Because ZOS wants to balance PVE and PVP together, so having a playerbase with at least some experience in both is a good thing.

Because if you want the achievements for getting ALL the base game stuff, you have to experience ALL of the base game, which includes Cyrodiil.


I say this as a former PVE-only player who hated the idea of PVP but went to Cyrodiil for the Master Angler fish, gradually learned to love PVP, and became a regulat PVPer.

jainiadral

RealDolanTrump wrote: »

In my experience there are generally 3 types of player in this game:
- those that PvP
- those that PvE
- those that are not good at either of above. So instead they role play or do quests and such stuff.

What makes me angry is when #3 comes to the forums and asks for nerfs, asks to remove PvP, cries about animation canceling, cries about players that are better than them, and blames ZOS for their own incompetence.

Yes, it would be nice for you if they would separate the Cyrodiil Skyshards from the achievment, but it would also be nice if you would ask like a normal human being without throwing dirt at PvP and PvPers.

#3 is never the group asking for nerfs. And quests are PvE.

perogwin_ESO

VaranisArano wrote: »

I say this as a former PVE-only player who hated the idea of PVP but went to Cyrodiil for the Master Angler fish, gradually learned to love PVP, and became a regulat PVPer

I tried the fishing thing, got so bored I wanted to harm myself, so more power to you for actually doing it!

As for PVP, I have been avoiding it for 20 years worth of MMO (my first MMO was EQ1in 1999 with the stupid turn in the book to be a player killer thing) and I have no plans on starting now, though I am glad you found you enjoyed it!

Alucardo

VaranisArano wrote: »

I say this as a former PVE-only player who hated the idea of PVP but went to Cyrodiil for the Master Angler fish, gradually learned to love PVP, and became a regulat PVPer.

I think a lot of us had the same experience (probably not the master angler bit). I was PvE only, but I was interested in exploring Cyrodiil. As soon as I enter 'Oath of Malacath' starts playing, and boy did it get me pumped. Got absolutely obliterated when I was strolling around, but I had a lot of fun. It's been 3 years and I haven't left Cyrodiil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtOLoS61roc

Smitch_59

I share the OP's frustration. I tried PvP and hated it. I've accepted the fact that I'll never get the skyshard achievement. I don't expect ZOS to change it. It is what it is...

Jeremy

perogwin_ESO wrote: »

I have been trying to finish the Skyshard Global Achievement for the furniture item and was horrified to discover you needed the shards from all 3 alliance areas. I do not PVP, I hate PVP, and honestly wish it wasn't even part of a game or at least a completely separate world server, but people enjoy it so live and let live I say. Though it is beyond me why would they put PVE content in a zone that then forced people to PVP? So I waited till the server was quiet, then I went into the zone on the lowest population version of the campaign I could find to try and get what I needed, which worked fine, till I realized that 4 skyshards were impossible to get without a full campaign going on because they were locked behind the gates of the other 2 factions. It is bad enough to put PVE in a PVP zone, to force people to have to travel through a PVP zone, but then to lock the items behind gates that cant be open without being involved in PVP is ridiculous! What were they thinking? Why do they hate PVEers so much? If it was just an achievement then I could just say forget it, but then they decide to attach one of the cooler housing items to it.


With all the changes to the game, I think its time for PVP to be removed from the Skyshard Achievement much like Craglorn is, stop punishing PVEers especially when it is such a simple thing to change. Even better make it a global account achievement if you don't want to remove the PVP zones from it so all you need is one character of each faction just to go in and get the ones behind the gates and be done with it. I have been working on this for days now I am stuck sitting in a PVP Campaign hoping that one of the gates opens and stays open long enough for me to get to it and through it , and survive all the players trying to kill me, just to get the last 4 shards I need.

Suggesting that they are "forcing" you is a bit exaggerated. But it was a little evil to put those sky shards behind the gates in Cyrodil like that. So I can understand the frustration.

What I did was just keep en eye on Cyrodil until the gates were open - then ran in and got them.

therift

I completely disagree.

Skyshards are obviously intended for PvP so PvPers don't have to run quests to gain skill points.

All skyshards should be moved to Cyrodiil, Imperial City, and Battlegrounds.

Fur_like_snow

Sadly you chose the ERP faction instead of one of the two real PvP factions. You’re gonna be waiting awhile for those shards.

Sylosi

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Sadly you chose the ERP faction instead of one of the two real PvP factions. You’re gonna be waiting awhile for those shards.

Cyrodil is "PvP" for PvE players, go play some CS:GO or something if you want to find real PvP players.