Why does ZOS force PVP on people who want nothing to do with it?

rwelshmub17_ESO

Early in the game when PVP wasn't so laggy, people used to camp at the sky shard points looking for those that were trying to get them all. I remember getting ganked a couple of times doing that. For me it was fun because you had to plan it out literally watch the sky shard area for a bit before going in and getting it. It really tied into that sneak/recce/scout type of play that I enjoy.

Other ways of doing it are sometimes large groups from guilds will have sky shard runs in Cyrodill, ask to join one, I'm not sure if that's still the case. I remember back in the beginning we were doing that and ran into another group from another faction and it became a big battle over the skyshard lol, it was awesome!

TheBonesXXX

Sylosi wrote: »

A real MMORPG would not have separated PvP and PvE in the first place.

And there it is, the Moby *** of all arguments. The Unicorn in the forest. The ET in the bicycle basket.

Sylosi with a /thread.

If I could press all the buttons I would, so you get an Insightful.

Darkestnght

In actuality you barley have to PvP to get all of the skyshards in Cyrodiil. It is really not that hard. Sure you will die/get killed but if it is worth it you will do it and maybe learn something along the way.

TheBonesXXX

Same Reason they make us do pve content. Because they designed it that way.

MrBrownstone

What makes you think that the Skyshard Global Achievement is a "PvE content"? Achievements are achievements. Some might require both PvE and PvP.

JumpmanLane

Garwulf wrote: »

Essentially the same to do trials and other stupid dungeon stuff in PVE. At least in PVP it is never the same old bang your head against a wall action over and over again. All you have to get in your head about PVP, is that the worst that can happen to you is you have to respawn after death. Not even your equiptment get damaged. Only your pride if you are a neurotic who worries about your charcter being killed. My main character has been killed tens of thousands of times since ESO began. Might be a Grand Overlord but makes little difference . Worth something like 50 skill point however.

I was gonna agree with this but had to change it to an awesome!

Brrrofski

Levelling to 50 in a decent time frame
Earning CP at a decent rate
Levelling skills at a decent rate
Getting enough skill points for the skills and passives you need
Getting undaunted 9
Getting fighters guild 10
Getting mages guild 10
Getting psijic order 10
Getting soul magic 6
Getting a lot of decent gear sets that people run in PvP
Getting monster sets
Getting gold upgrade materials
Getting flowers for potions
Getting items for food
Earning gold at a decent rate
Probably a lot more
- All things you need to PVE to do.

Getting assault and support level 6 (about 5 hours if you're really bad at it)
Get about 15 skyshards (which you really don't need as there's hundreds in pve)
- All the things you need to PvP for.

Again OP, please tell me how it's unfair that PVE players have to go in to PvP

ezio45

lmfao

no, you can COMPLETELY avoid pvp in this game. Its pve thats forced down your throat

CMDR_Un1k0rn

ezio45 wrote: »

lmfao

no, you can COMPLETELY avoid pvp in this game. Its pve thats forced down your throat

Not if you want a certain powerful stamina-powered heal... And I use stamina only.

OP, for better or worse, this is a conscious design decision to try and get players involved with all the content.

To be frank, there's a good chance that if PvP really were 100% optional, then Cyrodiil and BG might be completely dead.

PvP is certainly dead on another multiplayer game I play, Elite Dangerous.

And you know why it's dead? Because it offers nothing for PvE players.

Now a lot of PvE players are going to start jumping in joy. Those nasty PvP players lose out and all that jazz.

Thing is, PvP was built into this game as a feature, but unlike Frontier, who make Elite, ZOS quite rightly make the efforts to, yes, force PvP on players so that those players can get skills near-essential for PvE content. There are also PvP skills/gear in this game that can only be gained through PvE. It works both ways.

Oddly enough, while the devs' at Elite do a terrible job at maintaining a balance between PvE & PvP, they do a bloody good job at maintaining variety in players within the PvE side so that they can gain access to Engineers. (Engineers are basically an enchanting system for spaceships)

The above paragraph, I have written to show that "forcing" players to do all content is quite normal for games, especially multiplayer titles.

Brrrofski

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

lmfao

no, you can COMPLETELY avoid pvp in this game. Its pve thats forced down your throat

Not if you want a certain powerful stamina-powered heal... And I use stamina only.

OP, for better or worse, this is a conscious design decision to try and get players involved with all the content.

To be frank, there's a good chance that if PvP really were 100% optional, then Cyrodiil and BG might be completely dead.

PvP is certainly dead on another multiplayer game I play, Elite Dangerous.

And you know why it's dead? Because it offers nothing for PvE players.

Now a lot of PvE players are going to start jumping in joy. Those nasty PvP players lose out and all that jazz.

Thing is, PvP was built into this game as a feature, but unlike Frontier, who make Elite, ZOS quite rightly make the efforts to, yes, force PvP on players so that those players can get skills near-essential for PvE content. There are also PvP skills/gear in this game that can only be gained through PvE. It works both ways.

Oddly enough, while the devs' at Elite do a terrible job at maintaining a balance between PvE & PvP, they do a bloody good job at maintaining variety in players within the PvE side so that they can gain access to Engineers. (Engineers are basically an enchanting system for spaceships)

The above paragraph, I have written to show that "forcing" players to do all content is quite normal for games, especially multiplayer titles.

You can get vigor without having 1 fight in like 2 hours. Not even kidding. It's stupid easy

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Brrrofski wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

lmfao

no, you can COMPLETELY avoid pvp in this game. Its pve thats forced down your throat

Not if you want a certain powerful stamina-powered heal... And I use stamina only.

OP, for better or worse, this is a conscious design decision to try and get players involved with all the content.

To be frank, there's a good chance that if PvP really were 100% optional, then Cyrodiil and BG might be completely dead.

PvP is certainly dead on another multiplayer game I play, Elite Dangerous.

And you know why it's dead? Because it offers nothing for PvE players.

Now a lot of PvE players are going to start jumping in joy. Those nasty PvP players lose out and all that jazz.

Thing is, PvP was built into this game as a feature, but unlike Frontier, who make Elite, ZOS quite rightly make the efforts to, yes, force PvP on players so that those players can get skills near-essential for PvE content. There are also PvP skills/gear in this game that can only be gained through PvE. It works both ways.

Oddly enough, while the devs' at Elite do a terrible job at maintaining a balance between PvE & PvP, they do a bloody good job at maintaining variety in players within the PvE side so that they can gain access to Engineers. (Engineers are basically an enchanting system for spaceships)

The above paragraph, I have written to show that "forcing" players to do all content is quite normal for games, especially multiplayer titles.

You can get vigor without having 1 fight in like 2 hours. Not even kidding. It's stupid easy

Is PvP enabled during that time-frame?

I personally don't care myself, because I enjoy PvP, even if I'm terrible at it, but well, is it possible for these guys who abhor the thought of entering Cyrodiil or BG to get vigor without going into those zones?

Brrrofski

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

lmfao

no, you can COMPLETELY avoid pvp in this game. Its pve thats forced down your throat

Not if you want a certain powerful stamina-powered heal... And I use stamina only.

OP, for better or worse, this is a conscious design decision to try and get players involved with all the content.

To be frank, there's a good chance that if PvP really were 100% optional, then Cyrodiil and BG might be completely dead.

PvP is certainly dead on another multiplayer game I play, Elite Dangerous.

And you know why it's dead? Because it offers nothing for PvE players.

Now a lot of PvE players are going to start jumping in joy. Those nasty PvP players lose out and all that jazz.

Thing is, PvP was built into this game as a feature, but unlike Frontier, who make Elite, ZOS quite rightly make the efforts to, yes, force PvP on players so that those players can get skills near-essential for PvE content. There are also PvP skills/gear in this game that can only be gained through PvE. It works both ways.

Oddly enough, while the devs' at Elite do a terrible job at maintaining a balance between PvE & PvP, they do a bloody good job at maintaining variety in players within the PvE side so that they can gain access to Engineers. (Engineers are basically an enchanting system for spaceships)

The above paragraph, I have written to show that "forcing" players to do all content is quite normal for games, especially multiplayer titles.

You can get vigor without having 1 fight in like 2 hours. Not even kidding. It's stupid easy

Is PvP enabled during that time-frame?

I personally don't care myself, because I enjoy PvP, even if I'm terrible at it, but well, is it possible for these guys who abhor the thought of entering Cyrodiil or BG to get vigor without going into those zones?

Yeh, PvP is enabled.

Because of keep degredation, walls don't stay at 100%. So you buy bricks for gold (if you don't have AP) and go around keeps you own and fix walls. You get like 50 AP per brick. 20% more if you go to a delve and kill a boss (lasts an hour). Sometimes you get lucky and some enemy dies outside a keep you're repairing a wall of and you get a defence tick. If you're alliance has less people online you get an increased amount of AP.

I got it on my new warden in like 2 hours, maybe a little bit more. Had a broken wrist so couldn't use a controller properly so just went around doing that.

Mettaricana

Wife needs vigor and caltrops to be stamina dps viable for most of her builds she cant stand pvp the premade bgs groups and the lagging zergs they should either give all the pvp skills up front or make them all only usable in pvp to give the pve players the ability to skip pvp... im sure I'll hear a valid opinion about why this is bad..

iCaliban

Why does zos force dozens of hours of pve on pvp players? (for undaunted 9) Compared to a relatively short grind for pvp skills?

Frankly, guild/alliance war skills should be account bound. There is more than enough content to allow for plenty of playtime without forcing ridiculous grinds on players.

kongkim

There wer ea time were you also got bonus to pve if your faction were doing good in PVP.
I miss that. Its one big game not two games. People cant get its all if they dont want to do the content.

Lifecode666

This game should be only pvp

Amphithoe

Easy. Make Cyrodiil enterable outside a campaign during a "ceasefire".

Micah_Bayer

perogwin_ESO wrote: »

RealDolanTrump wrote: »

Yes, it would be nice for you if they would separate the Cyrodiil Skyshards from the achievment, but it would also be nice if you would ask like a normal human being without throwing dirt at PvP and PvPers.

I'm sorry it was not my intention to throw dirt at PVPers - the dirt was aimed at the Devs. I do even say that some people prefer that play style so live and let live.

The requirement for the PVP zone to be included in the Global Achievement should have been removed when "One Tamriel" came out. Move those 3 separate achievements to under the PVP category and let PVPers get some cool PVP themed housing item for getting the 3 achievements, that way the PVEers and PVPers get something out of it. Again when it was just an Achievement it didn't matter if it was ever done or not, but because they decided to attach a tangible housing item to it they should have reworked it.

But with that, then everything you gather in pve that pvpers need should be removed and added to pvp so we don't have to do the boring pve stuff

Imryll

Stealth. Figure out which campaign your Alliance does best in and visit Cyrodiil when your population is high and you hold lots of castles. You may be pleasantly surprised and find that PvP can be fun, but really it's possible to visit Cyrodiil without much PvP, if that's your preference.

therift

So... I guess Emperor Achievement is definitely 'out' for OP. Along with all the cool furnishings that come with it.

Alucardo

Mettaricana wrote: »

Wife needs vigor and caltrops to be stamina dps viable for most of her builds she cant stand pvp the premade bgs groups and the lagging zergs they should either give all the pvp skills up front or make them all only usable in pvp to give the pve players the ability to skip pvp... im sure I'll hear a valid opinion about why this is bad..

How about they fix the premade BGs and lag situation instead of restricting abilities? Just a thought.

Acharnor

I have been recently finishing off the Shards on my Sorc and am now in Cyrodil. I don't mind a little excitement sometimes. But, I am in a low pop campaign and have had little problem getting them. Ran into trouble in one delve. If you hang out long enough you'll get a notice when a gate is open. Drop what you are doing and blast through the guards on that gate and get the most stressful ones in the game. Always gets my heart racing. The key is stealth there.

So - check which campaign you are in and if high pop switch to a low pop one. Harvest away.

fastolfv_ESO

your not being forced to pvp your playing a game thats main focus was pvp at release. it sounds more like you chose the wrong game, you could potentially ignore the aspect of the game you dislike but if your a completionist your going to have to do things you dislike

AlnilamE

perogwin_ESO wrote: »

EllieBlue wrote: »

Go to Sotha Sil. Currently morning capped by AD on a daily basis. Should be easy peasy for you to get in the gate.

Ahh tyvm for the insight, I was able to get the 2 from the DC side today finally, but the EP 2 are proving to be even more difficult since in all 3 campaigns I can get in (way to high for the "under 50" version) have totally been dominated by EP this weekend and the red gate haven't opened once. Heck in one of the Non-Vivecs EP has all 6 scrolls

Which would, in essence, render the achievement meaningless. No, thank you.

perogwin_ESO wrote: »

FIANLLY GOT THE LAST 2!

I still think the Skyshard achievements should be separated by PVE and PVP, and some of the more involved achievements like this one should be Account Wide, but at least this nightmare is over!

Congratulations!!!

I'm missing one on my 5th character and 1 on my 6tth. I've been keeping an eye on Cyrodiil on and off, and I'm sure I'll get them soon.

Then, of course, I have to get all the other skyshards in Cyrodiil on those guys. So much to do, so little time...

AlnilamE

Mettaricana wrote: »

Wife needs vigor and caltrops to be stamina dps viable for most of her builds she cant stand pvp the premade bgs groups and the lagging zergs they should either give all the pvp skills up front or make them all only usable in pvp to give the pve players the ability to skip pvp... im sure I'll hear a valid opinion about why this is bad..

Has she considered repairing a bunch of walls? Also, I have found that the AP rewards from the daily login add up pretty quickly.

EvilAutoTech

Devs don't force you to PVP




PVPers do.




The first time I went to Cyrodiil, I was looking to complete the dolmens. Got rekt, then I got rekt and then I got rekt again. I swore I would not go back.

Then I decided I really wanted Vigor and Caltrops. I had read on here that you could pvdoor your way to these "essential" skills. So I went back.

I repaired walls and doors. I was earning AP. Then a keep I was in got attacked. I joined fray. I died, a lot. I kept returning to the fight. I found I liked it. Quite a bit actually.

I still don't have all the skyshards or dolmens. I may, someday, but when I go to PVP, I prefer to PVP

Danksta

invisibility/speed potions

Elsterchen

perogwin_ESO wrote: »

I have been trying to finish the Skyshard Global Achievement for the furniture item and was horrified to discover you needed the shards from all 3 alliance areas. I do not PVP, I hate PVP, and honestly wish it wasn't even part of a game or at least a completely separate world server, but people enjoy it so live and let live I say. Though it is beyond me why would they put PVE content in a zone that then forced people to PVP? So I waited till the server was quiet, then I went into the zone on the lowest population version of the campaign I could find to try and get what I needed, which worked fine, till I realized that 4 skyshards were impossible to get without a full campaign going on because they were locked behind the gates of the other 2 factions. It is bad enough to put PVE in a PVP zone, to force people to have to travel through a PVP zone, but then to lock the items behind gates that cant be open without being involved in PVP is ridiculous! What were they thinking? Why do they hate PVEers so much? If it was just an achievement then I could just say forget it, but then they decide to attach one of the cooler housing items to it.


With all the changes to the game, I think its time for PVP to be removed from the Skyshard Achievement much like Craglorn is, stop punishing PVEers especially when it is such a simple thing to change. Even better make it a global account achievement if you don't want to remove the PVP zones from it so all you need is one character of each faction just to go in and get the ones behind the gates and be done with it. I have been working on this for days now I am stuck sitting in a PVP Campaign hoping that one of the gates opens and stays open long enough for me to get to it and through it , and survive all the players trying to kill me, just to get the last 4 shards I need.

I feel ya, I wanted some nice armor untill I discovered i actually had to group up with 3 mash-heads and run a dungeon about 10 times to get all the pieces I wanted (more often if i needed weapons and terrifying often if i wanted specific traits)

BUT thats only the beginning
... image how devastated I was when I discovered that some of the best armor in game is hidden behind having to group with 11 (E_L_E_V_E_N !) Potatoe-heads and do some acrobactics of strange sort, get shouted racist comments like "white head and black head = boom, all dead" (I swear this is true!), as well as "polite" things of all sorts because I dared to stand where "everyone" knows you shouldn't stand in that specific moment, because obiously "everyone" got the memo (exept for me), read it AND has a special interest in repetitive NPC encounters with an obsession to actually do these encounters as synchon as possible. ... btw: If you feel sligtly tipped off by now... Line dance and (in case you like water too) synchronized swimming may exactly be your thing!

... and to top it all: If I want all achievements unlocked I would have to do THAT more than once!

Now, honestly I rather sneak around cyrrodiil for a few days to get the gear and achievement ... well, or skyshards ...

anytime!

BloodStorm

On PS4 only Vivic is often full. The rest are low pop and is easy to explore or get a couple people only and get emperor haha. Log on at low pop time or campaign and should be fine. I rarely quest unless it's Vampire related usually as that's a big part of why I also play the game. Werewolf quests also sometimes are fun/lore is entertaining. Anyway I am not the biggest fan of vet dungeon dlc mechanics but they do make you feel accomplished when you beat them and that's nice. Darkshade caverns is so easy now and can run around and burst the boss from range, but I remember early on with less gear and when nobody had a perfect idea of what to do getting my engine guardian was a pain a few times. But I like the game in that sometimes you have to explore and do other PVE things for good sets. Learning a bit of both is fun and I if people ask for help PVP or PVE I try think of it as an adventure like single player ES and just enjoy the ride. Anyway I love engine guardian so much I use it on every character build be it tank or whatever and had to learn more PVE and now strictly tank PVE/PVP. If you find a build that works for your playstyle then you may enjoy them more . My first character was a puncturing sweep spamming vampire with engine guardian eventually, good times .

Starlock

I just accept I'll never get those skyshards. Which would be less irritating if there wasn't a really cool housing item attached to getting them.