Siege Strength And The Quality of Open World PvP

Lord_Sando

Make Siege A Force To Be Reckoned With Once More

I agree last week was the best PVP in a very long time. Now zergs night cap and gate the other factions and the lag has returned in full force.

#MAKESIEGEGREATAGAIN

Zevrro

Other

Vapirko wrote: »

darkblue5 wrote: »

Honestly if siege kills the tower touching style of solo play I won't be mad because honestly it is a much more boring way to solo than to run out to the edges of a siege battle and engage until you're dead. I mean if you very much care about your kill/deaths then sure my style makes no sense but IMO deaths are free. The kite and then burst style requires way to much patience, and often generates less interesting fights than the fights around siege during siege week.

Honestly, if ZOS just implemented special week long Cyrodiil events like the accidental siege week during long boring metas that'd help break up the monotony of whatever is going on. Someday the meta won't be the tank meta and I'll get tired of it too. And at that point some random weekly event briefly reviving the snare tank meta might be a similarly well received. Sheo needs to make some nonsense events and not just nonsense weapons that either faction stacks or guilds will nearly always grab first.

It won’t though. Tower farmers were some of the biggest users of siege.

How much space inside of a tower do you think there is to place siege?

Vapirko

Zevrro wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

darkblue5 wrote: »

Honestly if siege kills the tower touching style of solo play I won't be mad because honestly it is a much more boring way to solo than to run out to the edges of a siege battle and engage until you're dead. I mean if you very much care about your kill/deaths then sure my style makes no sense but IMO deaths are free. The kite and then burst style requires way to much patience, and often generates less interesting fights than the fights around siege during siege week.

Honestly, if ZOS just implemented special week long Cyrodiil events like the accidental siege week during long boring metas that'd help break up the monotony of whatever is going on. Someday the meta won't be the tank meta and I'll get tired of it too. And at that point some random weekly event briefly reviving the snare tank meta might be a similarly well received. Sheo needs to make some nonsense events and not just nonsense weapons that either faction stacks or guilds will nearly always grab first.

It won’t though. Tower farmers were some of the biggest users of siege.

How much space inside of a tower do you think there is to place siege?

Plenty. Trust me.

Zevrro

Other

Vapirko wrote: »

Zevrro wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

darkblue5 wrote: »

Honestly if siege kills the tower touching style of solo play I won't be mad because honestly it is a much more boring way to solo than to run out to the edges of a siege battle and engage until you're dead. I mean if you very much care about your kill/deaths then sure my style makes no sense but IMO deaths are free. The kite and then burst style requires way to much patience, and often generates less interesting fights than the fights around siege during siege week.

Honestly, if ZOS just implemented special week long Cyrodiil events like the accidental siege week during long boring metas that'd help break up the monotony of whatever is going on. Someday the meta won't be the tank meta and I'll get tired of it too. And at that point some random weekly event briefly reviving the snare tank meta might be a similarly well received. Sheo needs to make some nonsense events and not just nonsense weapons that either faction stacks or guilds will nearly always grab first.

It won’t though. Tower farmers were some of the biggest users of siege.

How much space inside of a tower do you think there is to place siege?

Plenty. Trust me.

Not compared to the outside

HowlKimchi

Other

I voted other. On one hand it made keep sieges fun, on the other it made fights out in the open ridiculous. Srsly I had people sieging me in open fields.

My suggestion is that siege deployed in keeps should be strong, maybe the strength being tied to a resource.

Kikazaru

Make Siege A Force To Be Reckoned With Once More

That week was the most thrilling experience I've had in a long time. All those fights were so fun and chaotic.

TheBonesXXX

Make Siege A Force To Be Reckoned With Once More

HaruKamui wrote: »

I voted other. On one hand it made keep sieges fun, on the other it made fights out in the open ridiculous. Srsly I had people sieging me in open fields.

My suggestion is that siege deployed in keeps should be strong, maybe the strength being tied to a resource.

It was been suggested before, let sieges keep their deployment and turning rate the by keeps and anywhere else they lose 50%.

Speed loss in this game is massive punishment.

InvictusApollo

Make Siege A Force To Be Reckoned With Once More

Zevrro wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Zevrro wrote: »

If you really want siege to be as strong as it was last week then other aspects of it need to be adjusted since last week sieges were basically a guaranteed kill against players with no counter to dots. I don't really agree that it made anyone player smarter in keeps fights, it just meant that 99% of players were just firing siege at each other instead of actually fighting. Keeps were defended using only siege rather than siege being strategically used to debuff, pressure enemies and control areas.

If siege is strong enough to completely replace actual combat then whats the point in trying to PvP?

Really? Because I had just as much if not more actual PvP last week than ever before. In fact, since players were spreading out more instead of clumping on FD, there was more opportunity for small fights within larger battles. As soon as that change was reverted, it was back to 24 person raids standing on each other spamming sub assault and wiping everything in their path on a split second of lag induced abilty explosions. I very much disagree that the OP siege was providing less opportunity for actual PvP.

Most of the small fights I saw were ruined by players setting up a ballista 10ft away and clearing them all. Siege making players spread out and fight is fine but when players are choosing to just set up a siege and fire it at a single player because they know its the best way to kill them there's a problem.

Then lets just nerf a little balistas so they either:
> Have minimal range that prevents point blank shots from occuring.
> Take significantly more time to place allowing enemies to act faster.
> Be targetable by skills and light attacks.

RinaldoGandolphi

Make Siege A Force To Be Reckoned With Once More

They should of just left siege how it was

Zergs and ball groups have dominated this game since release, it time for a change. As long a shealing springs, purge,and siege stay as they are, balling up in blobs and faction stacking will remain the dominant game play and performance will be poo.

TheBonesXXX

Make Siege A Force To Be Reckoned With Once More

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

They should of just left siege how it was

Zergs and ball groups have dominated this game since release, it time for a change. As long a shealing springs, purge,and siege stay as they are, balling up in blobs and faction stacking will remain the dominant game play and performance will be poo.

Yep. I think design is an issue, keep to keep to keep does not help either, needs more objectives.

Rake

Other

already suggested - make sieges scale with AvA rank
1%-50% stronger based on how much u pvp

VaranisArano

Rake wrote: »

already suggested - make sieges scale with AvA rank
1%-50% stronger based on how much u pvp

1. Make PVP rank account wide so your alts don't get punished.

2. Looking at the PVP guild I was a part of and the rank of the players I played with in our organized raid...you may not want to make that suggestion.

3. Yes, let's make PVP even harder for new players to break into. Wait, what?

Rake

Other

VaranisArano wrote: »

Rake wrote: »

already suggested - make sieges scale with AvA rank
1%-50% stronger based on how much u pvp

1. Make PVP rank account wide so your alts don't get punished.

2. Looking at the PVP guild I was a part of and the rank of the players I played with in our organized raid...you may not want to make that suggestion.

3. Yes, let's make PVP even harder for new players to break into. Wait, what?

no, lets give them one shot balistas and refunds if they die.

RebornV3x

Make Siege A Force To Be Reckoned With Once More

Siege was over performing last weak but on live siege is currently weak I can stand under multiple oils and get hit by multiple ballistas and not really worry about dying on CP servers i think a good balance between last week and now would be great.

InvictusApollo

Make Siege A Force To Be Reckoned With Once More

VaranisArano wrote: »

Rake wrote: »

already suggested - make sieges scale with AvA rank
1%-50% stronger based on how much u pvp

1. Make PVP rank account wide so your alts don't get punished.

2. Looking at the PVP guild I was a part of and the rank of the players I played with in our organized raid...you may not want to make that suggestion.

3. Yes, let's make PVP even harder for new players to break into. Wait, what?

Or we could do the opposite: the higher your rank, the less damage you do with a siege. This would allow new players to still feel needed while the experienced ones could focus on fighting with abilities.

But honestly I tink that the best option would be to revert siege damage while putting minimal range for ballistas so that no one could shoot them point blank. That way siege engines are still usefull for drawing battle lines and making ball and zerg grups spread apart.

NyassaV

Keep Siege Weak

Sorry I like using the build I created to fight rather than stand around like a bunch of PUGs. ESO PvP should not be a point to click adventure.

usmcjdking

Make Siege A Force To Be Reckoned With Once More

Godsiege was amazing. Some of us saw the light of what cyrodiil should truly look like, and probably won't make any great effort to step foot in there ever again until it returns to that state.

Meanwhile you literally have people in the forums defending earthgore and lag because learning2position is too hard.

Imryll

Other

Just a question. Do those eager to see stronger siege play in CP or no CP campaigns? I've only played in no CP and don't see siege as currently weak, but perhaps I'm overlooking something. It may also be that siege need to be balanced differently in the two types of campaigns.

TheBonesXXX

Make Siege A Force To Be Reckoned With Once More

NyassaV wrote: »

Sorry I like using the build I created to fight rather than stand around like a bunch of PUGs. ESO PvP should not be a point to click adventure.

I use my build, but I'm a bit nuanced, BGs and Imp City will not have siege.

DeadlyRecluse

Make it strong, but make it respond to mitigation properly (including shields).

Minno

Make Siege A Force To Be Reckoned With Once More

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Make it strong, but make it respond to mitigation properly (including shields).

agreed. Siege should crit too

DeadlyRecluse

Minno wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Make it strong, but make it respond to mitigation properly (including shields).

agreed. Siege should crit too

Templar--Khajiit--Shadow Stone Trebuchet meta?

ShadowProc

Joy_Division wrote: »

Biased poll is biased.

Keep siege week, huh? Let's just ignore the numerous times ZOs already buffed it - The meatbag which infect large areas with overlapping Major Defile fields, the Scattershots while put down overlapping fields of with a +20% damage, oil catapults that drain stamina, lightning cats that drain magicka, the buff to make it so CP siege acts like no CP seige - all of these buffs were recent, all of them were asked for and all of them were applauded. Seige as it is destroys roof defenders on an inner keep, it destroys attackers trying to use a single breech in a well defended keep, it is already been buffed numerous times putting all sorts of debuffs on players as well as damage and people are still complaining and just flat out lying by calling it weak.

All those buffs prove siege fanatics wont be satisfied unless a piece of inventory can destroy players without them being able to do anything about it. Only when it does oblivion damage that ignores everything including shields do you finally deem it useful. Yet someone you all complain about a little oblivion damage dot from Sloads. Because left clicking from 50 meters away on a tower wall is skillful gameplay, but actually getting out there and fighting someone with a proc set is a "crutch."

Everytime siege gets buffed, the people who suffer by far the most are inexperienced players or those poor souls who try to contribute to their alliance by setting up the plain old ballista to hit a castle wall. They lose control of their character while shooting that ballista, so they cant just get out of the mutliple and overlapping red circles on them, and have to with standing in a major defile, a 20% amp to all damage, and getting destroyed by a cold harbor ballista that kills them in 2 seconds tops. People who run in ball groups have pocket purgers and healers who are inconvenienced, not destroyed, by it. Anytime something is overpowered, the people you are so desperate to destroy is effected the least by the changes because they have the most experience and pocket support to deal with it.

Why does it have to be skillful? It makes taking or defending keeps more challenging. You have to work for it. More holes. Hitting back lines.

I am all for anything that makes group play more challenging. Ball groups is the least skillful thing in PVP unless you are fighting another ball group. I agree it gets extremely challenging. But look at the videos these guilds continue to post while stomping PUGs with ultimate dumps.

I agree it would suck if someone broke up a small scale fight but That’s why you need to be mindful of your surroundings. If you don’t get the red circle I agree that’s bad.

If I get hit by siege when I am fighting alone and I don’t react to it I deserve it.

InvictusApollo

Make Siege A Force To Be Reckoned With Once More

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Make it strong, but make it respond to mitigation properly (including shields).

agreed. Siege should crit too

Templar--Khajiit--Shadow Stone Trebuchet meta?

Try hitting anything with that trebuchet
Even ballistas have hard time hitting unless they are firing almost point blank.

Imryll wrote: »

Just a question. Do those eager to see stronger siege play in CP or no CP campaigns? I've only played in no CP and don't see siege as currently weak, but perhaps I'm overlooking something. It may also be that siege need to be balanced differently in the two types of campaigns.

I've been playing in no CP while the holy "siege bug" was active and everyone shot by a Cold Fire Ballista died almost instantly when hit. Most people just adapted to that by rol dodging and positioning themselves well. Ball groups were non existent. Groups were spreading out. ANd even though we had epic battles with dozens of players it somehow was much less laggy than battles with the same amount of players but stacked tightly.

Vapirko

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Make it strong, but make it respond to mitigation properly (including shields).

Tank meta level 9000

CompM4s

Make Siege A Force To Be Reckoned With Once More

Maybe adjusting the damage depending on siege used. Increase trebuchets damage alot due to how long it takes to load. Ballistas should be increased but not enough to one shot and catapults are probably ok as is since it leaves a aoe debuff on ground.

illutian

Make Siege A Force To Be Reckoned With Once More

They really need to buff the damage siege does to players.

All there is now is DC and EP balls rolling around and take AT LEAST 6 meatball sieges to even make them 'panic'.

FFS, even Oil Pots do like jack damage. I, being woeful undergeared and less than 400 CP, just sit there on a ram with like 5 oils raining down on me; queue "this is fine meme".


...this is stupid.


For the record: I play in 30 Day CP-enabled. ((Sieges are joke))

thedude33

Make Siege A Force To Be Reckoned With Once More

illutian wrote: »

They really need to buff the damage siege does to players.

All there is now is DC and EP balls rolling around and take AT LEAST 6 meatball sieges to even make them 'panic'.

FFS, even Oil Pots do like jack damage. I, being woeful undergeared and less than 400 CP, just sit there on a ram with like 5 oils raining down on me; queue "this is fine meme".


...this is stupid.


For the record: I play in 30 Day CP-enabled. ((Sieges are joke))

70% of the people in this poll agree with you. Class Reps have more clout than us though, and one of them disagrees strongly with you. So I don't see it changing anytime soon.

Excuse me while I go have my warm oil shower. So refreshing and relaxing!

Vapirko

thedude33 wrote: »

illutian wrote: »

They really need to buff the damage siege does to players.

All there is now is DC and EP balls rolling around and take AT LEAST 6 meatball sieges to even make them 'panic'.

FFS, even Oil Pots do like jack damage. I, being woeful undergeared and less than 400 CP, just sit there on a ram with like 5 oils raining down on me; queue "this is fine meme".


...this is stupid.


For the record: I play in 30 Day CP-enabled. ((Sieges are joke))

70% of the people in this poll agree with you. Class Reps have more clout than us though, and one of them disagrees strongly with you. So I don't see it changing anytime soon.

Excuse me while I go have my warm oil shower. So refreshing and relaxing!

They have increased siege damage in CP. So let’s see how it plays out.

pzschrek

Keep Siege Weak

It may be because of the way I play, but I’ve chiefly seen siege as a tool zergs use against the competent few to hit harder than they deserve.

It’s fine where it is...it has its place in sieges on breaches where it shines brilliantly and rightfully, but you can’t solely crutch it to do all your work for you.

If it’s strong enough that the default move is to drop a siege in a field fight, or where the best move most players can make to do damage is not to play their toon but to drop siege, it’s overtuned. (Looking at you, sotha)