PvP in this game is godly unforgiving for the new players.

CyrusArya

Gear plays an important role in PvP. And in my opinion, this is a good thing. The beauty of ESO is how it combines action combat with rpg character building. And as with any rpg, how you assemble your character is of importance. Theorycrafting and tuning your performance through gear is half the fun. If you seek plug and play games where you can jump right into the action at equal footing, there are options out there such as Apex Legends and Fortnite that offer that, and these games are also incredibly fun. But ESO has its own appeal and part of that is build craft and gearing.

All that being said, an important thing to keep in mind is that quality PvP gear is very accessible on ESO. Point me to any class and I can provide you a build that requires minimal effort to acquire because all the sets can be easily farmed or purchased. Now if someone refuses to learn how to put a build together, or use any of the resources widely available such as these forums or YouTube to learn how to do so, well thats on them. As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink. Keep in mind that every single experienced PvPer you see was once a new player in Cyrodiil with no clue as well.

fred4

Vapirko wrote: »

My stamina DK wears Shacklebreaker, Fury and Bloodspawn. The first is crafted at 6 traits, any guildy should be able to help with that easily, Fury is pretty dirt cheap in stores and Bloodspawn is one of the easiest helms to get. In fact you can use shacklbreaker as a base set for almost any spec and definitely for most magicka builds, its pretty close to BiS for many rn. For stamina bone pirate tatters comes from Blackheart haven which is a very very easy dungeon. What separates new players is skill, and that is, thankfully, a huge part of PvP. Don't even start getting stuck in blaming it on gear. Its far less about what you wear and more about your understanding of how what you have at your disposable will work for you.

Agree, except for (albeit implicitly) recommending Fury to a new player. That is funny. Fury is, honestly, a set that you won't feel the real benefit of until you are pretty advanced and a small-scaler / 1vXer at that. On PC EU the set is also not at all cheap, with prices anywhere from 10K to 50K for body pieces, since it no longer drops from Rewards of the Worthy.

fred4

@Barbardin, you are unfortunately very wrong. Skill plays a huge role in PvP. Duel an experienced PvPer and they will obliterate you due to the speed and decisiveness with which they rattle off their combos and their experience in switching to defense and healing when they need to. You have no chance as new player.

This game has a high skill cap. I am led to believe it is higher than WoW, but have not played that game myself. You need to learn weaving, animation cancelling, attack burst combos, line-of-sighting, blocking, dodge rolling, and so on, all at the appropriate moments. Then there's the huge build variety. You don't just need to learn your own build, but you best understand the other classes and at least the common builds that people make with them, otherwise they will burst you and kill you with the combo you didn't see coming, or they will defile you, poison you, stun you, root you, and so on.

In terms of gear, some of the best PvP sets are either craftable or readily available in guild stores. You can have top PvP gear with zero farming, provided you somehow have gold or a friendly guild member to help you out. Sets like Spriggan, Spinner's, Necropotence, Shacklebreaker, Fortified Brass, Armor Master, Eternal Hunt, and so on, are all readily available and BIS for certain builds. If I were to recommend something to venture out solo into PvP, as a completely new player, I'd probably go with Reactive and Shacklebreaker or just Brass and Shacklebreaker. Try and get Troll King by running Blessed Crucible.

Gear should usually be Impenetrable and gold weapons are pretty much mandatory and expensive, once you are at CP160+. You need to grind a certain amount of other things too. Fighter's Guild, Mage's guild (only as a magicka char), Undaunted Mettle, Medicinal Use passive, enough skill points (skyshards), Vigor (as a stamina char), I'm probably forgetting something. You do need to give yourself the best possible chance, but if this is your first competitive online game, you have a huge learning curve ahead of you as well. This is not a bad thing as it keeps PvP entertaining in the long run.

If you are on PC EU, let me know.

Lucky28

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

In cp pvp the game is pretty damn forgiving, even for new players. Think you’re confusing the lack of gear for unforgiving. In any game if you’re in the wrong gear you’re going to have a bad time.

In no cp it’s unforgiving to a noob. Albeit in bgs they’re typically matched with players closer to their skill level or knowledge.

yeah. i started playing at 1.6 and let me tell ya, my 20 CP Vs players with 1000+ CP.... my god it was so easy i was putting people down left and right XD

seriously. no.

Urvoth

Gear contributes very little compared to skill. Yeah, you need a basic setup, but that is easy to make and you won't be far off everyone else once you get that.

Koensol

Barbardin wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

this subject just leads to arguments, but we are allowed to give opinions.
my opinion is that:

[it "should" be very hard and take a long time to be strong in pvp in eso.
in pve it should only take a few hours.]


thats how i see it and think it should be in any mmo that you join as a new player.

So in another word:
People, who love PvP in games, please avoid MMOs, waste of time.

Or...practice, learn mechanics, and you will get better. Sorry no free passes.

What "learning mechanics" has to do with gear grinding in PvE?

Don't be so freaking stubborn when you are a new player! This isn't WoW with vertical gear progression. ESO has horizontal gear progression. As far as pvp goes, you can for example use 1 crafted set and one halfway decent random overland dropped set that you can buy in the market for very few gold and upgrade it to at least blue/purple (this isn't hard) and you can perform very well already. Some of the top builds include simple crafted sets...

The most important is learning HOW to play. You won't learn how to play by surfing with the zergs as there is no personal influence or responsibility at all. Zerg dies, you die. Zerg runs people over, you kill people. You will need to find or make friends with more experienced players who give you small practical tips that will allow you to practice and improve.

But this mindset of yours where are just whining on the forums with a preconceived image of how the game works, when in fact you have absolutely no clue at all, doesn't work in your favor. The fact you might have the idea you can't do *** in 10-50 bracket is because of battle leveling. The higher you get, the lower your stats will scale. So a level 15 guy who has a decent build and knows what hes doing will destroy people. I don't like this system, but it was made to give people a smoother start to the game at low levels.

Kadoin

Barbardin wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

this subject just leads to arguments, but we are allowed to give opinions.
my opinion is that:

[it "should" be very hard and take a long time to be strong in pvp in eso.
in pve it should only take a few hours.]


thats how i see it and think it should be in any mmo that you join as a new player.

So in another word:
People, who love PvP in games, please avoid MMOs, waste of time.

Or...practice, learn mechanics, and you will get better. Sorry no free passes.

What "learning mechanics" has to do with gear grinding in PvE?

You can't be godly in PvP and not godly in PvE and vice-versa. Example? On my LA tank I use to absorb damage from entire zerg, I take to vet dungeons and soak up the damage too. I also see if my PvP builds can get through vDSA stage 1 solo. If not, it better perform well enough in another way or have a "trick" or it's scrapped.

Then there are those non-pelenial's hybrid builds that most would claim can't kill anyone or do anything, but they do...

fred4

Barbardin wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

this subject just leads to arguments, but we are allowed to give opinions.
my opinion is that:

[it "should" be very hard and take a long time to be strong in pvp in eso.
in pve it should only take a few hours.]


thats how i see it and think it should be in any mmo that you join as a new player.

So in another word:
People, who love PvP in games, please avoid MMOs, waste of time.

Or...practice, learn mechanics, and you will get better. Sorry no free passes.

What "learning mechanics" has to do with gear grinding in PvE?

Honestly, I wouldn't grind gear, not even as a new player. You could go to the appropriate zone and grind a set you want, but it could take you a long time to get it in the right traits, e.g. Impenetrable and maybe some Well-Fitted. I'd grind gold instead. On PC EU there is a perennial dolmen run in Alik'r Desert to grind jewelry. Some public dungeons are good for grinding gold. If you follow the markets and can find (buy) certain Alchemy ingredients, you can make a profit selling poisons to NPC vendors. Selling blue CP150 glyphs for others to deconstruct and learn from is very profitable (10:1), albeit they tend to clog up your guild store slots for half a week, until someone finds them (which is the reason WHY they are so profitable). You can also go around the towns in Cyrodiil and do the 50 daily quests, there. Not many PvPers go. Some of the towns have no PvP objectives at all. These quests are short and sweet and have a chance to get you some valuable stuff. Consult Tamriel Trade Centre, if in doubt (google it).

I'm not going to list all the methods to make gold, as there are YouTube videos for that. Point is, there are many, so don't feel confined in grinding one particular area of the game, if you don't like it. Variety is the spice of life. The method I use, grinding Tel Var in Imperial City, can be very profitable, but is probably off limits to new players.

fred4

And, finally, if you don't care for questing, and you just want to PvP, between level 50 and CP160 is fairly dire. I wouldn't think about proper gear until CP160, because you outgrow your gear before that. It loses it's effectiveness.

Fear not, though. What you need is training gear, which you probably need to ask someone to craft you. You also need to work on your Undaunted Mettle anyway, so I'd run some dungeons and do the quests within. I've seen people's CP jump by dozens of points just from doing one, but I don't know whether that's still the case. Using the Dungeon Finder can be pretty rough. People vary from friendly to toxic in pretty equal measure. Probably nicer to join a guild or make some friends. You'll get the most Undaunted progress from Veteran dungeons, but you won't really be ready for those, unless you can find a group to carry you. You'll probably want to avoid even the DLC normal dungeons, if going in with a group of below CP160 players. It'll be a nicer experience, though, so you experience the quest lines together without rushing through, as high CP players inevitably do.

Then there's always Spellscar, a place in Craglorn where people grind CP, Fighter's Guild and skill lines. A group of two gets credited full XP and kills mobs faster. If there are more than two people involved in a kill, the XP is diluted. Ideally you want to pair up with a CP810 player who is grinding something. I always pick people up, if they are alone. You get credited full XP while the CP810 mows through the mobs. To make the most of it, use XP scrolls ZOS gave you or Ambrosia.

biminirwb17_ESO

I created a new character to play after update 21 and took her to Kyne at level 10, got the 9k ap from the 3 quests and the 2 shards from the scroll temples and thought why the heck not try the bloodmayne cave, in training gear collected in starting zone.

Killed the 3 bosses and got the ap buff so I thought I will play until the buff runs out. I killed a few people, died a lot, fixed walls, fired meatbags and eventually played till I got vigor unlocked. Had no prior intention of doing this, it was fun.

I am CP 1365, I have a monkey pet, but playing no cp on a low level character with gear not suited to pvp was refreshing.

Jeezye

What I can tell you though is that newcomers face a HUGE difference in knowledge and game mechanics, starting with the very basics of CCing someone on cooldown and run builds that sport the holy triangle defense - offense - sustain.

Most new players (talking of 160+) don't even know there's a CC cooldown of 6 seconds, they never learned that, and of couse with the overwhelming selection of sets they have no idea how to build. So they just rock snipe or a healing staff and get melted by any dawnbreaker or frag incoming.

I think the game desperatly needs a PvP tutorial, maybe a quest when entering Cyrodiil, so you learn the very basics such as CCing, healing, defensive mechanics (blocking, dodging, ...) etc.

Especially for casuals that just want to step into Cyro as an adventure it must be increadibly frustrating to get steamrolled by veterans without having an idea what went wrong. The face that veterans (I myself too ) exclusively focus said playerbase to make quick AP and win outnumbered fights exaggerates that fact.

Xarc

Jeezye wrote: »

What I can tell you though is that newcomers face a HUGE difference in knowledge and game mechanics, starting with the very basics of CCing someone on cooldown and run builds that sport the holy triangle defense - offense - sustain.

Most new players (talking of 160+) don't even know there's a CC cooldown of 6 seconds, they never learned that, and of couse with the overwhelming selection of sets they have no idea how to build. So they just rock snipe or a healing staff and get melted by any dawnbreaker or frag incoming.

I think the game desperatly needs a PvP tutorial, maybe a quest when entering Cyrodiil, so you learn the very basics such as CCing, healing, defensive mechanics (blocking, dodging, ...) etc.

Especially for casuals that just want to step into Cyro as an adventure it must be increadibly frustrating to get steamrolled by veterans without having an idea what went wrong. The face that veterans (I myself too ) exclusively focus said playerbase to make quick AP and win outnumbered fights exaggerates that fact.

Hm, no.

Yes today, an experienced pvp players is harder than a pve-boss. Because he's smart, and he's healing himself, dodging, using buffs/debuffs, using combos etc. Yes it is hard. But it is also the thing which gives interest to the game and which gives the motivation to perform.

2 things :

• No need game's pvp tutorial. New players need practice and experience will come. "Old players" have learnt alone, without tutorial or people who said them how to do and what to do. they all learnt by themself against themselves, between them.
  
• But we're playing a mmo and some parts of the game must be done by the community, by players, and not by the game itself. Tutorials must be done by players ; help and advices must be given by players and guilds. That's what makes our game alive.

And it is how the things are actually.

WoppaBoem

I don't think its about gear. It is about getgud. That takes a long time. I went trough 4 builds on different classes and setups with success but for sure a lot of downfalls to finally find what suits me. There many options to play I think is the main thing finding what work with your strengths as is forgiving on your weaknesses.

So yes Grind, but there is not 1 game out there that you will be good 1 one week. Maybe some easy shooters and all you play is shooters so the muscle memory applies. But for any game that is different 1 week to be able to carry your weight in PVP that is not happening.

olsborg

Equipment/Gear is now probably in the 80% range of the power that players have in this meta, the rest is the actual build. Gear has too much power.

Talking about some 5piece bonuses and monster masks.

technohic

The only it time gear has to much power are when the sets do the damage and healing for the player. Outside of that, a large part of it is easily accessed by crafting. They could have made that a bit better by not making jewelry resources for improvement ridiculous, but there are also cheap sets that work.

Now, yes you will want a good monster set as they are powerful for 2 pieces, but bloodspawn is fairly easy to get and once you have it, you can collect AP for sets on The Golden vendor if you never want to PVE again.

That's pretty much what I have done. I have shacklebreaker. Have picked up ravager, seventh legion, spriggans, Cyrodiil ward, spinners, necropotence, etc, etc from guild stores and craft to improve my own gear. Once you start piling up transmute stones; it's even cheaper to buy the off traits

ChunkyCat

can’t wait to see all these “new player” raging in VMA

Brrrofski

I could run hundings and shackle on any stam class and do fine. In fact I do on my stamblade.

Shackle and kagernacs on any magica build too. In fact I do on my magplar.

Plus effective PvP gear is easy to farm anyway. 7th legion, spriggans, spinners are all overland sets so farmable solo or bought. Lich, bone pirate are from dungeons you can run on normal. Fury, spell strat etc drop in PvP so can be bought.

Only thing you need to do that requires a bit of effort is a monster set. Troll king and bloodspawn are both easy vet dungeons and effective on almost any build.

Maulkin

I don't understand the complains about gear. This game is insanely forgiving in that regard, especially for PvP.

You can pair Shackle with another set and you're good to go. You can buy cheaply a couple of great sets if you're mag, like Spinner or Bright Throat. Or craft one of Kagrenac, Seducer, Armor Master, Fortified Brass etc. Maybe you grind a bone pirate set if you're stam, but that's dead easy too.

I'm pretty sure you can go from a new char to one well geared (purple gear and gold enchants) within 1-2 days of grinding. Compare that with any Asian MMO where gear and char level is 90% of the game and ESO is on the extremely friendly end of the scale.

The game does however have a big learning curve. The player base is not huge but there are dedicated PvPers with 4-5 years XP under their belts that know all classes and combos inside out. The problem is not gearing, it's that the game doesn't really integrate you slowly until you meet such players.

The BG MMR system is character based, rather than account based, so you could well meet such players on their alts. And also it doesn't protect randoms from meeting premades, so that's a double fault. As for Cyrodiil there's only 1-2 campaigns with active population so you will run into squads of these experienced players at resources and map choke points and you will die a lot and keep learning from it.

Imryll

I think the real problem is under 50--and folks forgetting what it means to start out with no gold, no crafting skills, no tempers, no bank space, a hungry mount, and generally not knowing your way around. What is "easy" on a new alt often isn't so easy for a new player.

CompM4s

Its about finding a group and learning... gear will come, as well as build advice.

mursie

Barbardin wrote: »

I see people come and leave the game in a week because of that. To get anything good you have to grind grind and grind. But new player in pvp has absolutely no chance vs vet player because of gear, which new player can't even craft. I remember in Classic WoW it was pretty easy to get into BG and be useful after level 25 or so, but in this game I can't see how new player can even take a breath in BG or Cyro.

Skill is one thing, but without proper gear how can new player be any useful in pvp?

This is so categorically false that it should be deleted by mods. This game has one of the EASIEST gear grinds I have ever seen. You can literally have end game gear crafted for you by any guildy within seconds of hitting CP 160. the dungeon gear is also very easy to grind.

The pvp is difficult to learn - but not because of gear. Learning how to animation cancel, mitigate damage, avoid damage, and deliver your own damage - all while keeping your buffs up throughout combat - that takes time to learn and become proficient at.

ScruffyWhiskers

Low ping is as important as skill. Also, kids streaming netflix will get you killed 9 times out of 10.

DeadlyRecluse

Barbardin wrote: »

Skill is one thing, but without proper gear how can new player be any useful in pvp?

They really can't, but there's nothing stopping them from getting proper gear.

Barbardin

Well thank you for all your posts and opinions on this topic.

Now when new player joins the game this post will serve it need.

Urvoth

olsborg wrote: »

Equipment/Gear is now probably in the 80% range of the power that players have in this meta, the rest is the actual build. Gear has too much power.

Talking about some 5piece bonuses and monster masks.

Nah, prob 15% gear, 85% skill. Gear is nearly meaningless compared to a player's skill level, and a good player with a mediocre setup will beat an average player with top tier gear 100% of the time. Nearly everything you need for a decent PvP build is easy to get.

Datolite

Barbardin wrote: »

I see people come and leave the game in a week because of that. To get anything good you have to grind grind and grind. But new player in pvp has absolutely no chance vs vet player because of gear, which new player can't even craft. I remember in Classic WoW it was pretty easy to get into BG and be useful after level 25 or so, but in this game I can't see how new player can even take a breath in BG or Cyro.

Skill is one thing, but without proper gear how can new player be any useful in pvp?

Anyone who has ever PvPed in MMOs knows how untrue this is. I could start a new account today and have a PvP ready character in like a week. Try playing some older games and come back to this post. Even worse, try a Korean one...

Seriously though, if you are I a guild just ask someone to craft you some basic cp160 gear. I do it for pennies, if not free.

Elsterchen

Barbardin wrote: »

I see people come and leave the game in a week because of that. To get anything good you have to grind grind and grind. But new player in pvp has absolutely no chance vs vet player because of gear, which new player can't even craft. I remember in Classic WoW it was pretty easy to get into BG and be useful after level 25 or so, but in this game I can't see how new player can even take a breath in BG or Cyro.

Skill is one thing, but without proper gear how can new player be any useful in pvp?

There is barely any grind to PVP ... snug on crafted sets and get going. In PVP its about learning what to do and when to do it. There is no way to grind it, just do as everyone: and use your wits to learn. *

* The time you need to start feeling comfortable in PVP depends on you only. While I started with specific setups for PVP, I now walk in with my PVE gear of latest fashion and have no problem getting what I want in PVP. So, its not the gear, its the player.

technohic

Thinking about it, the longest gate for PvP is skill points and mount speed. Everything else, you can get a crafted and cheap overland sets, then let battle spirit take over the rest with maybe an interruption briefly at CP 1-160. Whats it take to grind that now with the catchup mechanics and cap at 810? Maybe a couple hours of dolmens?

LordTareq

Barbardin wrote: »

I see people come and leave the game in a week because of that. To get anything good you have to grind grind and grind. But new player in pvp has absolutely no chance vs vet player because of gear, which new player can't even craft. I remember in Classic WoW it was pretty easy to get into BG and be useful after level 25 or so, but in this game I can't see how new player can even take a breath in BG or Cyro.

Skill is one thing, but without proper gear how can new player be any useful in pvp?

Your WOW example isn't the best, as the classic WOW had a huge gap between endgame pve gear and the rest, in the first years endgame PvE raiders dominated PvP for that reason. And getting such gear was not easy in those days, just getting 40 people together for the multiple hours-long raids was a significant challenge for many guilds, and then you had to actually beat the raidbosses which was a far from certain outcome. And even when you did all that, only a couple of players would win a single piece of epic gear.
In low level battlegrounds you had twinks, characters who had the best gear available due to having high level mains, and even a single twink could carry an entire team. From the Burning Crusade onwards with reasonably easy to acquire arena gear however I agree with you.

PvP wise ESO cannot compare to most other MMO's of today. SWTOR, Warhammer Online, WOW, GW2, all have (had in warhammer's case) vastly superior PvP in terms of balance and a smaller gap between veterans and other players.

Liww

they should cap cp at 160 in cp pvp. no more rediculous extremes like we see now.

The cp grind is stupidly long either way and only benefits people who have played for years, neither does it add anything to pvp.

gear is easily obtained tbh.