PvP in this game is godly unforgiving for the new players.

Barbardin

I see people come and leave the game in a week because of that. To get anything good you have to grind grind and grind. But new player in pvp has absolutely no chance vs vet player because of gear, which new player can't even craft. I remember in Classic WoW it was pretty easy to get into BG and be useful after level 25 or so, but in this game I can't see how new player can even take a breath in BG or Cyro.

Skill is one thing, but without proper gear how can new player be any useful in pvp?

disintegr8

You don't need anything special to make progress and be useful in Cyrodiil - just carry lots of siege and use it to attack or defend keeps and outposts. Nobody can take these without siege.

If all else fails roll a healer and spam heals, heaps of AP and rewards to be earned there. Sure you'll still die a lot but get up, dust yourself down and start again. Practice, as much as gear, is what you need to stay alive.

Won't help much if you want to do BG's or IC though.

CatchMeTrolling

In cp pvp the game is pretty damn forgiving, even for new players. Think you’re confusing the lack of gear for unforgiving. In any game if you’re in the wrong gear you’re going to have a bad time.

In no cp it’s unforgiving to a noob. Albeit in bgs they’re typically matched with players closer to their skill level or knowledge.

redspecter23

If you think it's the gear that separates a good pvp player from a bad one, you have a lot to learn about pvp. Gear that requires grind plays a small part in a player's success in pvp.

As an example, there are plenty of players that pop on BIS gear and still melt in pvp. You won't get there on gear alone. You need skill and there is no easy solution if you lack that.

Barbardin

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

In cp pvp the game is pretty damn forgiving, even for new players. Think you’re confusing the lack of gear for unforgiving. In any game if you’re in the wrong gear you’re going to have a bad time.

In no cp it’s unforgiving to a noob. Albeit in bgs they’re typically matched with players closer to their skill level or knowledge.

You are kidding me, right? CP has to be grinded! XD
I am talking about the experience of 10-50 level here.

Barbardin

redspecter23 wrote: »

If you think it's the gear that separates a good pvp player from a bad one, you have a lot to learn about pvp. Gear that requires grind plays a small part in a player's success in pvp.

As an example, there are plenty of players that pop on BIS gear and still melt in pvp. You won't get there on gear alone. You need skill and there is no easy solution if you lack that.

I never said skills veren't necessary, but gear in any MMO always play huge role like it or not. Without it you can't be a good player.

Demra

For levels 10-50 you can get away without good gear. Just what ever you find as long as you keep it to under 50 game modes. You get bonus stats for being under leveled and there should be more new players like you. That is what i am currently doing and having a blast though i also have a lot of experience backing it.

Of course there are those that craft themself gear just play at low levels and feel powerful and that can suck but i think most play competitively.

The real grind begins at cp10 till cp 160. Than you can buy some decent gear from guild stores and start hunting for a monster gear. Once you done that you are back again at being competitive.

But seriously, 2 runs of any dungeon should give you a decent gear that would make you competitive at low levels. Or a few delves with public dungeon and a dolmen. And cyrodiil have big groups, at least on EU, so you don't need much. Maybe a bow and snipe but that's it.

I do agree with you that there is some grind but compare to any other mmo i tried it is really nothing. The rest is player skill which in this game plays a major factor which i think its great.

CatchMeTrolling

Barbardin wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

In cp pvp the game is pretty damn forgiving, even for new players. Think you’re confusing the lack of gear for unforgiving. In any game if you’re in the wrong gear you’re going to have a bad time.

In no cp it’s unforgiving to a noob. Albeit in bgs they’re typically matched with players closer to their skill level or knowledge.

You are kidding me, right? CP has to be grinded! XD
I am talking about the experience of 10-50 level here.

Well do yourself a favor and be more clear. It seems as though you’re specifically talking about them being unable to get gear. You didn’t even mention cp.

Barbardin

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

In cp pvp the game is pretty damn forgiving, even for new players. Think you’re confusing the lack of gear for unforgiving. In any game if you’re in the wrong gear you’re going to have a bad time.

In no cp it’s unforgiving to a noob. Albeit in bgs they’re typically matched with players closer to their skill level or knowledge.

You are kidding me, right? CP has to be grinded! XD
I am talking about the experience of 10-50 level here.

Well do yourself a favor and be more clear. It seems as though you’re specifically talking about them being unable to get gear. You didn’t even mention cp.

I made myself clear, when I was talking about BG and Cyrodil at level 10-50 which has no CP!

CatchMeTrolling

Barbardin wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

In cp pvp the game is pretty damn forgiving, even for new players. Think you’re confusing the lack of gear for unforgiving. In any game if you’re in the wrong gear you’re going to have a bad time.

In no cp it’s unforgiving to a noob. Albeit in bgs they’re typically matched with players closer to their skill level or knowledge.

You are kidding me, right? CP has to be grinded! XD
I am talking about the experience of 10-50 level here.

Well do yourself a favor and be more clear. It seems as though you’re specifically talking about them being unable to get gear. You didn’t even mention cp.

I made myself clear, when I was talking about BG and Cyrodil at level 10-50 which has no CP!

Where is that in your original post ?

Barbardin

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

In cp pvp the game is pretty damn forgiving, even for new players. Think you’re confusing the lack of gear for unforgiving. In any game if you’re in the wrong gear you’re going to have a bad time.

In no cp it’s unforgiving to a noob. Albeit in bgs they’re typically matched with players closer to their skill level or knowledge.

You are kidding me, right? CP has to be grinded! XD
I am talking about the experience of 10-50 level here.

Well do yourself a favor and be more clear. It seems as though you’re specifically talking about them being unable to get gear. You didn’t even mention cp.

I made myself clear, when I was talking about BG and Cyrodil at level 10-50 which has no CP!

Where is that in your original post ?

New Players..... logic?

coj901

It took me about 5 months to get good at it. You gotta learn solo/small scale and group play. Alot of research on Google. The gear won't hold you back. I'm running shackle/spinner and I'm melting folks. The hardest thing is finding a monster set and getting lucky with the keys.

CatchMeTrolling

Barbardin wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

In cp pvp the game is pretty damn forgiving, even for new players. Think you’re confusing the lack of gear for unforgiving. In any game if you’re in the wrong gear you’re going to have a bad time.

In no cp it’s unforgiving to a noob. Albeit in bgs they’re typically matched with players closer to their skill level or knowledge.

You are kidding me, right? CP has to be grinded! XD
I am talking about the experience of 10-50 level here.

Well do yourself a favor and be more clear. It seems as though you’re specifically talking about them being unable to get gear. You didn’t even mention cp.

I made myself clear, when I was talking about BG and Cyrodil at level 10-50 which has no CP!

Where is that in your original post ?

New Players..... logic?

You realize you can be a new player well beyond 160 right? And it’s really easy to get to 160. Now I feel you’re pretty new yourself.

devilsTear

Barbardin wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

If you think it's the gear that separates a good pvp player from a bad one, you have a lot to learn about pvp. Gear that requires grind plays a small part in a player's success in pvp.

As an example, there are plenty of players that pop on BIS gear and still melt in pvp. You won't get there on gear alone. You need skill and there is no easy solution if you lack that.

I never said skills veren't necessary, but gear in any MMO always play huge role like it or not. Without it you can't be a good player.

This is bs, a good player in bad gear will kill a crap player with good gear.

Rikumaru

Barbardin wrote: »

I see people come and leave the game in a week because of that. To get anything good you have to grind grind and grind. But new player in pvp has absolutely no chance vs vet player because of gear, which new player can't even craft. I remember in Classic WoW it was pretty easy to get into BG and be useful after level 25 or so, but in this game I can't see how new player can even take a breath in BG or Cyro.

Skill is one thing, but without proper gear how can new player be any useful in pvp?

Unfortunately patch after patch gear has become more and more important. In the past you didn't need to have great gear or even gold weps / armor to compete. Sadly things have changed. Skill has become less important and gear, more important. The best thing you can do if you don't have any gear and don't feel like grinding for it, is to join a zerg.

Barbardin

devilsTear wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

If you think it's the gear that separates a good pvp player from a bad one, you have a lot to learn about pvp. Gear that requires grind plays a small part in a player's success in pvp.

As an example, there are plenty of players that pop on BIS gear and still melt in pvp. You won't get there on gear alone. You need skill and there is no easy solution if you lack that.

I never said skills veren't necessary, but gear in any MMO always play huge role like it or not. Without it you can't be a good player.

This is bs, a good player in bad gear will kill a crap player with good gear.

I would really want to see how you would burst all that dps through heavy armor meta gear while wearing trash gear...

LiraTaurwen

To me doing bgs from lvl 10 to 50 was alot easier than going to bgs above lvl 50, it was just after getting to cp 160 I started farming gear and sets for my characters. Until lvl 50 I think bgs were really fun and somewhat balanced (except for a few premade groups or troll werewolves etc lol).

I have only been playing for 3 months now so I can't expect to be able to compete skillwise with veteran players, it's just how it is. I still have to learn so much about every class and skills etc and that takes alot of time and practice. It also takes time to be aware and know how to position in pvp. The process can be frustrating, it's true, but if some people can't handle it I guess pvp is just not their thing. Grinding is just part of mmos.

thedude33

Barbardin wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

If you think it's the gear that separates a good pvp player from a bad one, you have a lot to learn about pvp. Gear that requires grind plays a small part in a player's success in pvp.

As an example, there are plenty of players that pop on BIS gear and still melt in pvp. You won't get there on gear alone. You need skill and there is no easy solution if you lack that.

I never said skills veren't necessary, but gear in any MMO always play huge role like it or not. Without it you can't be a good player.

With all due respect, you couldn't be more wrong. Gear is a piece of cake to get. Easier than most games. Skill plays a far bigger factor.

Honestly, I could craft you two great 5 piece sets and have you duel a guy that has 10 single pieces of armor. No set bonuses. You would lose badly. That scenario also applies to me. A good player with no gear would beat me.

Gear setups matter when two plays of relatively equal ability matchup.

redspecter23

Barbardin wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

If you think it's the gear that separates a good pvp player from a bad one, you have a lot to learn about pvp. Gear that requires grind plays a small part in a player's success in pvp.

As an example, there are plenty of players that pop on BIS gear and still melt in pvp. You won't get there on gear alone. You need skill and there is no easy solution if you lack that.

I never said skills veren't necessary, but gear in any MMO always play huge role like it or not. Without it you can't be a good player.

This is bs, a good player in bad gear will kill a crap player with good gear.

I would really want to see how you would burst all that dps through heavy armor meta gear while wearing trash gear...

There is absolutely no chance that a new player is killing an advanced player, even if you put that new player in gold tier god gear. A new player can use greater numbers to assist, but assuming even odds, it just isn't happening. It is not the gear holding a new player back, it's inexperience.

Gilvoth

this subject just leads to arguments, but we are allowed to give opinions.
my opinion is that:

[it "should" be very hard and take a long time to be strong in pvp in eso.
in pve it should only take a few hours.]


thats how i see it and think it should be in any mmo that you join as a new player.

Ragnarock41

Actually CP PvP is very, VEEERY forgiving.

If players really expect to jump into a new game and beat players with years of experience then maybe they'd better off playing something more.... casual. Like Call of duty, with its random spawns and noobtubes.

Now yes gear is important in PvP, however considering some of the strongest PvP sets literally drop from overland mobs and PvP reward mails, I think its safe to say getting gear is not hard anymore. I can understand your frustration if you're under level 50 and getting stomped by people who has PvP specific gear, some losers actually make sub-50 toons to kill low level players and thats because they are afraid of real PvP. Don't let them discourage you, Its simply not worth investing in PvP gear pre-50.

(IF you're in PC EU and struggling to know how to get gear I can help out,but all the info is already on the web really.)

Barbardin

Gilvoth wrote: »

this subject just leads to arguments, but we are allowed to give opinions.
my opinion is that:

[it "should" be very hard and take a long time to be strong in pvp in eso.
in pve it should only take a few hours.]


thats how i see it and think it should be in any mmo that you join as a new player.

So in another word:
People, who love PvP in games, please avoid MMOs, waste of time.

Sanctum74

Barbardin wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

this subject just leads to arguments, but we are allowed to give opinions.
my opinion is that:

[it "should" be very hard and take a long time to be strong in pvp in eso.
in pve it should only take a few hours.]


thats how i see it and think it should be in any mmo that you join as a new player.

So in another word:
People, who love PvP in games, please avoid MMOs, waste of time.

Or...practice, learn mechanics, and you will get better. Sorry no free passes.

devilsTear

Barbardin wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

If you think it's the gear that separates a good pvp player from a bad one, you have a lot to learn about pvp. Gear that requires grind plays a small part in a player's success in pvp.

As an example, there are plenty of players that pop on BIS gear and still melt in pvp. You won't get there on gear alone. You need skill and there is no easy solution if you lack that.

I never said skills veren't necessary, but gear in any MMO always play huge role like it or not. Without it you can't be a good player.

This is bs, a good player in bad gear will kill a crap player with good gear.

I would really want to see how you would burst all that dps through heavy armor meta gear while wearing trash gear...

redspecter23 wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

If you think it's the gear that separates a good pvp player from a bad one, you have a lot to learn about pvp. Gear that requires grind plays a small part in a player's success in pvp.

As an example, there are plenty of players that pop on BIS gear and still melt in pvp. You won't get there on gear alone. You need skill and there is no easy solution if you lack that.

I never said skills veren't necessary, but gear in any MMO always play huge role like it or not. Without it you can't be a good player.

This is bs, a good player in bad gear will kill a crap player with good gear.

I would really want to see how you would burst all that dps through heavy armor meta gear while wearing trash gear...

There is absolutely no chance that a new player is killing an advanced player, even if you put that new player in gold tier god gear. A new player can use greater numbers to assist, but assuming even odds, it just isn't happening. It is not the gear holding a new player back, it's inexperience.

^^this
Heavy armour doesn't carry like you think, experience and skill go a lot further then sets, again put a good player in bad sets he'll still have the advantage because he knows what to do in a fight. I've seen a lot of new players on ps4 eu and most use proc sets or wear the '' op heavy armour '' and still get thrashed because they don't know what they're doing.
Take your time to learn the game and your class/combos and you'll melt those players, experience is the best thing you can get in pvp.

Barbardin

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

this subject just leads to arguments, but we are allowed to give opinions.
my opinion is that:

[it "should" be very hard and take a long time to be strong in pvp in eso.
in pve it should only take a few hours.]


thats how i see it and think it should be in any mmo that you join as a new player.

So in another word:
People, who love PvP in games, please avoid MMOs, waste of time.

Or...practice, learn mechanics, and you will get better. Sorry no free passes.

What "learning mechanics" has to do with gear grinding in PvE?

Dojohoda

Gear choices are the lesser part of PVP. But you can have a good build and still fumble about and end up frustrated with PVP.

The greater part of PVP is knowing the mechanics of all of the classes and the skill lines and how to attack and counter others and paying attention to what's going on. This requires time, patience, and observation.

As a new player, your skill lines gradually open up to you. Try to understand the benefits and synergies that you have so that you can take full advantage of your choosen class.

Sanctum74

Barbardin wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

this subject just leads to arguments, but we are allowed to give opinions.
my opinion is that:

[it "should" be very hard and take a long time to be strong in pvp in eso.
in pve it should only take a few hours.]


thats how i see it and think it should be in any mmo that you join as a new player.

So in another word:
People, who love PvP in games, please avoid MMOs, waste of time.

Or...practice, learn mechanics, and you will get better. Sorry no free passes.

What "learning mechanics" has to do with gear grinding in PvE?

Because gear grinding has absolutely nothing to do with skill level and learning mechanics. Gear grinding is easy in pve and doesn't require much knowledge of mechanics and classes.

Pvp doesn't matter what your gear is if you don't know classes, mechanics, and counters then you will get wiped regardless of gear.

CatchMeTrolling

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

this subject just leads to arguments, but we are allowed to give opinions.
my opinion is that:

[it "should" be very hard and take a long time to be strong in pvp in eso.
in pve it should only take a few hours.]


thats how i see it and think it should be in any mmo that you join as a new player.

So in another word:
People, who love PvP in games, please avoid MMOs, waste of time.

Or...practice, learn mechanics, and you will get better. Sorry no free passes.

What "learning mechanics" has to do with gear grinding in PvE?

Because gear grinding has absolutely nothing to do with skill level and learning mechanics. Gear grinding is easy in pve and doesn't require much knowledge of mechanics and classes.

Pvp doesn't matter what your gear is if you don't know classes, mechanics, and counters then you will get wiped regardless of gear.

Yup I’ve seen people spamming snipe and circling mobs or bosses in pve with max cp. Tanks that can’t tank and dps getting out damaged by the healer.

You can get all the gear you want and still not know how to play. All the cp you need and still not know how to play.

The best thing a new player can do once they get 160 is get decent gear (which isn’t hard) and step into no cp and learn pvp. If a new player can get through no cp then cp pvp will come easier.

Vapirko

My stamina DK wears Shacklebreaker, Fury and Bloodspawn. The first is crafted at 6 traits, any guildy should be able to help with that easily, Fury is pretty dirt cheap in stores and Bloodspawn is one of the easiest helms to get. In fact you can use shacklbreaker as a base set for almost any spec and definitely for most magicka builds, its pretty close to BiS for many rn. For stamina bone pirate tatters comes from Blackheart haven which is a very very easy dungeon. What separates new players is skill, and that is, thankfully, a huge part of PvP. Don't even start getting stuck in blaming it on gear. Its far less about what you wear and more about your understanding of how what you have at your disposable will work for you.

ecru

The impen trait is the main contributor to this. IMO Impenetrable shouldn't exist. If it's a requirement to enter pvp, there is something wrong with outgoing damage in pvp, and the trait becomes essentially redundant since everyone is wearing it. No impen makes pvp a miserable experience for new players, and when they realize they have to get an entirely new set of gear with a different trait to not get instagibbed in pvp, what do you think most of them do? They just stop queueing instead of getting that gear.

Everyone needs a flat amount of crit resistance without impen when in pvp, ~2000 or something would work fine. Or just put a flat reduction on crit damage in pvp in general, making impen less of a requirement. Whatever the solution is, gating pvp behind all of your armor having a trait that is never used in pve needs to go away.

Iskiab

ecru wrote: »

Everyone needs a flat amount of crit resistance without impen when in pvp, ~2000 or something would work fine. Or just put a flat reduction on crit damage in pvp in general, making impen less of a requirement. Whatever the solution is, gating pvp behind all of your armor having a trait that is never used in pve needs to go away.

I agree with you, but the problem is they’d have to rebalance some things as a result. Like khajit’s crit chance or modifier would be an issue.

If you step back and look at ESO pvp, everyone in pvp is at least half tank spec. BGs are the result of having no healers, almost all stam wear 5 heavy with troll king. No one likes/thinks it’s fun to get killed in 2 seconds. I think there are no/less healers as a result too - as the primary target if the TTK is too low it isn’t fun. I’ve never seen less pvp healers in an MMO ever.

I think they should increase the pvp buff to 10k health from 5k and add 1K crit resists or so. As much as people say pvp is skill related, a burst combo taking someone out isn’t really skill - a macro could do that. Skill only evolves after the TTK is higher and you get assisting or coordination between player strategy. There’s skill in dueling, but 4 duellers should be getting smoked by 4 people in group pvp specs in a healthy pvp game.