Melee in PvP is suicide?

Solidus2

Now that my character is fairly developed (DW/2H stamblade, full sets, skillset, practice), I've been running BG's quite extensively.
I'm about 8 levels into the pvp skill lines, 400,000 AP, couple dozen BG's. I'm wearing full Impen, 14k mag, 19k health, 32k stam. That changes to about 22k health, 29k stam in BG's with no CP and various pvp buffs. I also feel like the matching system is working fairly well in general, other than a few outlier crazy players / META cheesers.

I really want to enjoy BG's, but unless there is some crazy elite player carrying the team, it's utterly frustrating and enraging.
After 4 or 5 BG's, I typically have to just rage quit from frustration as a melee character. Pick a target, try to get in close, spend about 6 seconds rooted (or snared to such a degree I may as well not even move), and get AoE'd down hopelessly. I blow stamina trying a roll dodge, only to continue to be snared? Break free, but the animation takes so long, I'm melted anyway? My unstoppable potions give me 8 seconds of freedom...sometimes?

There's really no way to play a melee DD in PvP?

Let me be clear - I have great success with this build when there is a single player or two, and it becomes a fight involving DoT's, HoT's, roll dodges for burst avoidance, all of the skillsets of PvP. But in the fray of BG's, melee simply can't do anything? Unless you're a hulking tank build of some sort? I watch ranged characters sit back at a safe distance unloading entire rotations, compared to the hopeless panic of breaking free and rolldodging in melee. I try to pick these guys off as a melee, and the snaring and CC'ing joy makes it just damn impossible.

Is this a thing? Is there some way to make this work?

Na0cho

are you running forward momentum?

I wouldnt live more than 5 seconds on my stamsorc without it i feel.

it purges snares and gives you like 3 seconds of immunity and its heal.


other than that you may have to build a little more tanky i guess, especially f you are pugging.

in bg's alot of times you an use crit rush to another enemy to get out of the situation you are in.

I know it sucks theres just so many snares and roots everywhere atm. I even made a magden so i could fight snare with snare so to speak lol.

but that just adds more cancer

Koolio

Yes. Practice Practice Practice.

I’ve probably accumulated around 10,000 deaths in PvP over the last 3-4 years. I’ve died to almost every scenario possible.

You said you have 400k Ap. Is that all that
You’ve ever gotten? Not trying to be mean or down talk you just getting a good idea where you’re at

Situational Awareness is the strongest trait to have in this game. Knowing what around you what classes, how long ago they used ultimate, possible playstyle, gear there using all that matters a lot.


I just played a Melee Templar light armor in BGs with 14-2 K/D on my vita at work. The joystick is about the size of my pinky fingernails.

I’ll try nd give you some solid advice once I know where you are at.

Also what Server/Platform

WoppaBoem

Stamblade, you need to be very specific and target driven to get success. Choice your target, use gap closing skills, use cloak. You are stamblade not a tanky melee DD. Melee DD is very dominate when build well in tankiness and damage.

Nightblade is very different than anything else. Keep playing while being aware you need the element of surprise and burst. You cannot run around and being casual and then attacking someone.

I am melee range light armor magdk, I am always first or second on my team. The playstyle suits me and lots of practice. Getting to my sweet spot of build and playstyle took me like 3 months of trying magblade - stamdk - stamwarden and then MagDK

Thanatos_inside

pew pew pew

vamp_emily

Put shuffle on your bar and thank me later.

LeifErickson

If snares and roots are what get you you will want to run shuffle or forward momentum depending on your build. That should help somewhat. Also unless you are using cloak and shade well you might need to build tankier as well.

jaime1982

Hmmmmmm, 19khp stamblade. My stamplars favorite

fred4

Many good things have already been said. Situational awareness / experience is key and I am also a fan of Forward Momentum. Your biggest asset, however, is Shadow Image. I don't play no CP and only a little stamblade in CP. However I've seen a good player brawl for extended periods with a melee stamblade, who was wearing Eternal Hunt. I believe it can be done successfully, even on a squishy medium armor build, with judicious use of dodge rolling and the shade, possibly with Eternal Hunt. Depending on your magicka sustain use Cloak sparingly and only after you've gained some distance by rolling or shading.

It is possible to build tankier, let's say with Impregnable Armor, Fortified Brass, or other defensive sets. The downside, IMO, is that you lose some of the unique nightblade flavor. You will become more dependent on Assassin's Scourge, which takes time to build, rather than trying to outright kill someone from stealth. When you are squishier, the playstyle is to get in, for example with Ambush, attempt to burst - you must have Incap ready - and disengage by porting back to the shade as, or just before, you get focused down. You must be prepared to do this whether you were successful, or not. It's also worth noting that, unlike other gap closers, Ambush will teleport you to another player, even if you're rooted.

Other ways to get people off your back include Mass Hysteria, Forward Momentum, and sheer speed. Funnily enough, the latter is more the preserve of melee magicka nightblades (I play one), because Concealed Weapon boosts your speed in cloak. Stamina nightblades tend to be slow in cloak. Also, they tend to be vampires, because they can't sustain it. Vampire negates the crouch slowdown.

On my stamsorc I use a Ranger / Prisoner setup. This is arguably better suited to stamsorc, but having a Prisoner back bar can be nice on stamblade as well. You either cloak, or your sprint with Double Take, regenerating magicka with Prisoner. You'll best get a Prisoner back bar weapon and transmute the jewelry for that setup.

fred4

jaime1982 wrote: »

Hmmmmmm, 19khp stamblade. My stamplars favorite

Well, honestly, I find templars the easiest class to counter on a nightblade. Drop the shade. Sprint / dodge roll a little further. Port back. Cloak. This gets you out of the jabs snare.

DeadlyRecluse

Solidus2 wrote: »

Now that my character is fairly developed (DW/2H stamblade, full sets, skillset, practice), I've been running BG's quite extensively.

"Full sets" doesn't give quite enough info to give meaningful feedback. If you're in all-damage sets, not running HoTs, etc. you are going to be too squishy to stand up to a clusterfudgey 4v4v4, but can still play melee on the fringe or by dipping in and out.

Solidus2 wrote: »

that changes to about 22k health, 29k stam in BG's with no CP and various pvp buffs.

At 22k health, I'm guessing you are in medium armor. The relatively low HP means you don't have the same margin for error--you certainly can play medium armor in BGs but you need to be going in-and-out of the fight, not standing your ground.

CatchMeTrolling

20-22k is the average health in no cp.

geonsocal

get a bow...seriously - get a bow...

Thraben

Solidus2 wrote: »

I really want to enjoy BG's, but unless there is some crazy elite player carrying the team, it's utterly frustrating and enraging.
After 4 or 5 BG's, I typically have to just rage quit from frustration as a melee character.

There's really no way to play a melee DD in PvP?

Is this a thing? Is there some way to make this work?

To be short, there is almost no way to play melee DD in PvP without using TrollKing.

And indeed, a heavy armor/ shadowporting Trollblade with Forward Momentum that STILL incaps you with 10k damage is one of the most formidable enemies you can encounter.

Luckily, 90% of the NB population is made up of bowtards, crit junkies and penetration worshippers.

Raammzzaa

Thraben wrote: »

To be short, there is almost no way to play melee DD in PvP without using TrollKing.

Blood Spawn

psychotic13

Koolio wrote: »

Yes. Practice Practice Practice.

I’ve probably accumulated around 10,000 deaths in PvP over the last 3-4 years. I’ve died to almost every scenario possible.

You said you have 400k Ap. Is that all that
You’ve ever gotten? Not trying to be mean or down talk you just getting a good idea where you’re at

Situational Awareness is the strongest trait to have in this game. Knowing what around you what classes, how long ago they used ultimate, possible playstyle, gear there using all that matters a lot.


I just played a Melee Templar light armor in BGs with 14-2 K/D on my vita at work. The joystick is about the size of my pinky fingernails.

I’ll try nd give you some solid advice once I know where you are at.

Also what Server/Platform

This, i think it applies even more in open world CP, you have to know whats going on around you. Itll take time to learn this, and youll die alot but thats how you learn i guess. Being situationally aware of all the things said will make you a better player than putting on better gear by some distance, imo.

Solidus2

I desperately want to like Shadow Image. I played a Riftstalker exclusively in Rift for 2 years, which was by far my favorite MMO and PvP experience of the past 20 years.

I dominated PvP the entire time, start to finish becuase of one single underrated ability: Flashback. You drop a Memory Capture, and within 40 yards you can hit flashback any time to go straight back. When I saw Shadow Image, I knew I'd play a NB.

I cannot. Make. This work. The vast majority of the time, it seems like 20 seconds is just too damn short to use this. Drop the shadow, traverse terrain to the target for 3 or 4 seconds, hit a few abilities, get kited, and I'm either completely out of range of the shadow or it's gone.

I really had an image in my mind of my NB being a tanky harassment build using Shadow Image, but it just never seemed to go that direction. I'm 5M-2H.

I'm running Assassin's Guile with double life drain poisons and Viper. Opening is incredibly strong (and double healing poisons + pots buys me several seconds of awesome healing). My approach is to 1) open strong, kill the target and disengage, or 2) Open strong, not do the damage I need to, and disengage. I feel like I have a good plan, but it's just utterly impossible to accomplish in the deathtrap of AoE and Snares.

When I try to "hunt" for a target, I feel like I'm leaving my team completely alone and wasting time. I guess I just don't know how to approach small scale BG PvP.

Solidus2

At this point I guess this is my argument:

I can git gud at this non-meta build I'm pursuing over time. It's fairly successful, but as a top-tier obsessive PvPer, that's just not good enough for me. I can work my way up to "making" this melee hit and run build viable, and struggle with it.

Or I can swap Viper for Sheer venom, and literally do far more damage with Snipe, Poison Injection, Proc Sheer Venom, and the same 8 second super poison, all from the safety of 30 yards with plenty of breathing room for a more reliable shadow image and getaway plan.

I know "anything" can be viable. it just seems too idiotic to NOT go bowtard, because Melee in PvP is suicide COMPARED to bowtard version of the same build. Does that make sense?

vamp_emily

I never have a problem fighting using 2H/Bow but don't think if you have a bow you are free from danger. I personally think it is the other way around, you start attracting "bowtard" haters that will stalk you.

I don't use DW that often but when I go in for a kill and get snared I just use shuffle to get away. As far as DW not being viable, there are a few guys in shor you might want to talk to. They make nightblade DW look OP.

MalagenR

I mean, it sounds like you're entering into team based BG's with what you suspect to be the most effective role for your class. Burst damage, low survivability, be able to actually kill people when you engage.

Your problem isn't your build. It's your assumptions about your team and the realty of BG PVP in ESO.

If you had a premade team, your build would be incredibly strong - if you have a tank on your team he might know to guard you or guard his healer - if you had a healer they would know you're squishy and be ready to heal you.

The problem? None of this exists in a random que BG, so your build shouldn't be a build about performing your role perfectly, but rather a build centered around the reality of what you're doing.

So, you're trying to kill people with very high damage and low defense build - I know this because you're using viper and guile. So you have low sustain - can't dodge roll enough and low phys / crit resist / spell resists (most medium armor users are running either Impregnable for the crit resist or Fortified Brass for the high phys / spell resist (you'll notice people are suggesting bloodspawn + trollking also)

I don't know very many top tier PVP NB's that don't run Spriggan Front Bar Maul with Bone Pirate. Sustain = defense - penetration on Spriggan = damage.

You've gone damage/damage. The thing is, defense comes 1st in ESO, because of how the game was designed. No CD's on skills, which means sustain gives you both defense and offense, and CP points stack better with defense vs. offense (for Cyro PVP in CP Camp).

So the answer to your question is - if you want to play a gank build - start with what the majority top tier PVP'ers are using - and learn from there. It's okay to take your route, theory craft your own build, and put it to successful use.

What's not okay is blaming snares / roots / your deaths on everything besides your personal choices.

Demra

MalagenR wrote: »

I mean, it sounds like you're entering into team based BG's with what you suspect to be the most effective role for your class. Burst damage, low survivability, be able to actually kill people when you engage.

Your problem isn't your build. It's your assumptions about your team and the realty of BG PVP in ESO.

If you had a premade team, your build would be incredibly strong - if you have a tank on your team he might know to guard you or guard his healer - if you had a healer they would know you're squishy and be ready to heal you.

The problem? None of this exists in a random que BG, so your build shouldn't be a build about performing your role perfectly, but rather a build centered around the reality of what you're doing.

So, you're trying to kill people with very high damage and low defense build - I know this because you're using viper and guile. So you have low sustain - can't dodge roll enough and low phys / crit resist / spell resists (most medium armor users are running either Impregnable for the crit resist or Fortified Brass for the high phys / spell resist (you'll notice people are suggesting bloodspawn + trollking also)

I don't know very many top tier PVP NB's that don't run Spriggan Front Bar Maul with Bone Pirate. Sustain = defense - penetration on Spriggan = damage.

You've gone damage/damage. The thing is, defense comes 1st in ESO, because of how the game was designed. No CD's on skills, which means sustain gives you both defense and offense, and CP points stack better with defense vs. offense (for Cyro PVP in CP Camp).

So the answer to your question is - if you want to play a gank build - start with what the majority top tier PVP'ers are using - and learn from there. It's okay to take your route, theory craft your own build, and put it to successful use.

What's not okay is blaming snares / roots / your deaths on everything besides your personal choices.

What helm would you pair with bp+ spriggan? Also this would require to use dubious cameron so less magicka which means less cloak which could mean less survivability. No?
Anything other than bp than can be used here? What about resistance instead of sustain? For more melee brawler i mean.

MalagenR

As mentioned earlier in the thread you generally have two choices:

Troll King - seriously this is the best choice hands down, you just can't beat raw healing % with CP's - your resists stop mattering when your hp hits 0, so making sure your hp doesnt hit zero > resists

Bloodspawn - I'd move to bloodspawn once you've mastered the class / resource management of the class - you can pressure test yourself with Veteran Maelstrom.

I don't care what a single PVP'er says, there is no better pressure test for whether or not a person can play their class than Veteran Maelstrom. You need kill speed, you need defense, you need self healing, all things you need to learn to do well in PVP, If you can't do those things in PVE, you can't do them in PVP, or maybe you can do them OK in PVP, because your major focus is PVP, but you can't define yourself as good or top tier.

These are obviously my opinions, but I think they make sense logically and you'd be hard pressed to formulate an argument to the contrary.

MalagenR

Demra wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

I mean, it sounds like you're entering into team based BG's with what you suspect to be the most effective role for your class. Burst damage, low survivability, be able to actually kill people when you engage.

Your problem isn't your build. It's your assumptions about your team and the realty of BG PVP in ESO.

If you had a premade team, your build would be incredibly strong - if you have a tank on your team he might know to guard you or guard his healer - if you had a healer they would know you're squishy and be ready to heal you.

The problem? None of this exists in a random que BG, so your build shouldn't be a build about performing your role perfectly, but rather a build centered around the reality of what you're doing.

So, you're trying to kill people with very high damage and low defense build - I know this because you're using viper and guile. So you have low sustain - can't dodge roll enough and low phys / crit resist / spell resists (most medium armor users are running either Impregnable for the crit resist or Fortified Brass for the high phys / spell resist (you'll notice people are suggesting bloodspawn + trollking also)

I don't know very many top tier PVP NB's that don't run Spriggan Front Bar Maul with Bone Pirate. Sustain = defense - penetration on Spriggan = damage.

You've gone damage/damage. The thing is, defense comes 1st in ESO, because of how the game was designed. No CD's on skills, which means sustain gives you both defense and offense, and CP points stack better with defense vs. offense (for Cyro PVP in CP Camp).

So the answer to your question is - if you want to play a gank build - start with what the majority top tier PVP'ers are using - and learn from there. It's okay to take your route, theory craft your own build, and put it to successful use.

What's not okay is blaming snares / roots / your deaths on everything besides your personal choices.

What helm would you pair with bp+ spriggan? Also this would require to use dubious cameron so less magicka which means less cloak which could mean less survivability. No?
Anything other than bp than can be used here? What about resistance instead of sustain? For more melee brawler i mean.

Also, I want to note, you should be hitting the HP requirements using Dubious if you've slotted your gear correctly with tri-stat enchants.

And I'm not sure why this isn't standard, anyone telling you different is lying, but every PVP'er should know their class benchmarks.

What are benchmarks?

Resists
Stam Recov
Mag Recov
Health Recov
Crit
Crit Dmg %
Weapon Damage
Spell Damage
Tooltip Damage (For example, my Frags needs to be 13.5k bare minimum to be effective in BG's or CP PVP, that's bare minimum, you want to push higher)
Crit Resist

I can only fill in some of these for you, as they are standard across all classes -

Crit Resist > 3k is absolutely mandatory for PVP.
Stamina Regen - Maybe a good NB can chime in here, but you could also go view really good PVPer videos, as a MagSorc that doesn't run a high resist build in the current meta, I need my mag recovery at like 2600+ in Cyro to be able to pump out enough shield spam to survive against NB's that have almost unlimited sustain with bone pirate and dubious.

let me explain how I know this: Anecdotally I've tested by not running from any NB 1v1 I encounter in Cyro. Once I broke 2600 Mag Recovery (with continuous assault buff) my tank went up and I can now 1v1 them to a draw instead of getting instagibbed. Prior to that, most people running Spriggans + BP could run me Out of Mana (OOM) and because you get great stamina management by bouncing back and forth between cloak (allowing your stam to tick once or twice before re-engaging) it's impossible to run them OOS (out of stamina)

Koolio

For me as a Nightblade it really depends on exactly what I am running.

Most the time I strive for tooltips(doesn’t matter if you build for max stats or weapon damage as long as the tooltip is there)
This is all in CP

23-25k health

31-45k Max Stam (depending)

11k Max Magic (800-1000 regen with continuous and potion)

1800 Stam recovery is the absolute minimum I will be able to handle and this is with additional effects on gear like proc sets. 2200 Stam Regen if I’m on an extremely hard hitting build. 2500-3000 regen if I’m on a “kite and fight” build

Minimum 40% crit without Minor savagery

I’ve become accustomed to 16k resistances 2500-3200 inpen most I run 2 well fitted.

Surprise Attack tooltips
11k Kite and Fight with lots of regen 2500+
13k Tooltip on a more moderate build
16k on full Damage build(24k+ Dawnbreaker)

I also do not, have not , and will not use fear on my stamblade. Just personal from years of never running it. It will cause issues not running it.



Currently My build (can’t tell you exactas because we don’t need this roaming in Cyrodiil)

35k Max
1800 Regen (Stam) 2200 fully buffed
4066 WD no continuous no glyph
45% Crit
23k health

It’s a very very strong build and most of it isn’t presented here. But for the love of Cyrodiil I can’t tell you exactly.


A great build I’ve ran before for example is

Dw 2h Bone Pirate Truth 1 Domi 1 Kena Medium 5-1-1. Woodelf WD mundus. 1 Nirn 1 Infused.

This is the 2400 Regen 5k plus WD 41k Max Stam build.

It has the 16k tooltip surprise attack and up to a 27k Dawnbreaker. I’ve hit people with 18k+ in PvP. It’s a complicated setup.

MalagenR

Koolio wrote: »

For me as a Nightblade it really depends on exactly what I am running.

Most the time I strive for tooltips(doesn’t matter if you build for max stats or weapon damage as long as the tooltip is there)
This is all in CP

23-25k health

31-45k Max Stam (depending)

11k Max Magic (800-1000 regen with continuous and potion)

1800 Stam recovery is the absolute minimum I will be able to handle and this is with additional effects on gear like proc sets. 2200 Stam Regen if I’m on an extremely hard hitting build. 2500-3000 regen if I’m on a “kite and fight” build

Minimum 40% crit without Minor savagery

I’ve become accustomed to 16k resistances 2500-3200 inpen most I run 2 well fitted.

Surprise Attack tooltips
11k Kite and Fight with lots of regen 2500+
13k Tooltip on a more moderate build
16k on full Damage build(24k+ Dawnbreaker)

I also do not, have not , and will not use fear on my stamblade. Just personal from years of never running it. It will cause issues not running it.



Currently My build (can’t tell you exactas because we don’t need this roaming in Cyrodiil)

35k Max
1800 Regen (Stam) 2200 fully buffed
4066 WD no continuous no glyph
45% Crit
23k health

It’s a very very strong build and most of it isn’t presented here. But for the love of Cyrodiil I can’t tell you exactly.


A great build I’ve ran before for example is

Dw 2h Bone Pirate Truth 1 Domi 1 Kena Medium 5-1-1. Woodelf WD mundus. 1 Nirn 1 Infused.

This is the 2400 Regen 5k plus WD 41k Max Stam build.

It has the 16k tooltip surprise attack and up to a 27k Dawnbreaker. I’ve hit people with 18k+ in PvP. It’s a complicated setup.

You must come from the old school. I've always taken the folks willing to post their builds on the forums and for everybody else to see with a grain of salt. I don't share my build either. It's extremely unique and it took me months to create. I don't want to fight it, I don't want someone to know it and complain about it on the forums, and I don't want people to figure out how to kill me because I have a big mouth on the forums.

This secretiveness is why I'm creating a MagSorc guild in the traditional sense. Once people in the guild earn my trust I'll be willing to share with them, but until that point I'm only going to help them start by learning the basics.

Koolio

MalagenR wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

For me as a Nightblade it really depends on exactly what I am running.

Most the time I strive for tooltips(doesn’t matter if you build for max stats or weapon damage as long as the tooltip is there)
This is all in CP

23-25k health

31-45k Max Stam (depending)

11k Max Magic (800-1000 regen with continuous and potion)

1800 Stam recovery is the absolute minimum I will be able to handle and this is with additional effects on gear like proc sets. 2200 Stam Regen if I’m on an extremely hard hitting build. 2500-3000 regen if I’m on a “kite and fight” build

Minimum 40% crit without Minor savagery

I’ve become accustomed to 16k resistances 2500-3200 inpen most I run 2 well fitted.

Surprise Attack tooltips
11k Kite and Fight with lots of regen 2500+
13k Tooltip on a more moderate build
16k on full Damage build(24k+ Dawnbreaker)

I also do not, have not , and will not use fear on my stamblade. Just personal from years of never running it. It will cause issues not running it.



Currently My build (can’t tell you exactas because we don’t need this roaming in Cyrodiil)

35k Max
1800 Regen (Stam) 2200 fully buffed
4066 WD no continuous no glyph
45% Crit
23k health

It’s a very very strong build and most of it isn’t presented here. But for the love of Cyrodiil I can’t tell you exactly.


A great build I’ve ran before for example is

Dw 2h Bone Pirate Truth 1 Domi 1 Kena Medium 5-1-1. Woodelf WD mundus. 1 Nirn 1 Infused.

This is the 2400 Regen 5k plus WD 41k Max Stam build.

It has the 16k tooltip surprise attack and up to a 27k Dawnbreaker. I’ve hit people with 18k+ in PvP. It’s a complicated setup.

You must come from the old school. I've always taken the folks willing to post their builds on the forums and for everybody else to see with a grain of salt. I don't share my build either. It's extremely unique and it took me months to create. I don't want to fight it, I don't want someone to know it and complain about it on the forums, and I don't want people to figure out how to kill me because I have a big mouth on the forums.

This secretiveness is why I'm creating a MagSorc guild in the traditional sense. Once people in the guild earn my trust I'll be willing to share with them, but until that point I'm only going to help them start by learning the basics.

That build is technically “retired” to me. I made it before jewelry crafting came out. It was the only way to have a WD proc set on jewelry being Stam based still running medium. So it’s a relic. Still really good but I’ve changed my whole playstyle since then on stamblades. So I don’t mind. Even got a couple of “hate” mail.

Like a decent magic sorc messages me and said “I would duel you but you hit way to hard with those 9k surprise attacks”

That was before sorc shields hass resistances.

The other builds I run now I will not release. Like you said I don’t want to fight it or deal with it.

The build I did post will allow him to hit extremely hard without procs(technically truth is a proc) but they will actually have to fight instead of sniping or something.

MalagenR

Koolio wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

For me as a Nightblade it really depends on exactly what I am running.

Most the time I strive for tooltips(doesn’t matter if you build for max stats or weapon damage as long as the tooltip is there)
This is all in CP

23-25k health

31-45k Max Stam (depending)

11k Max Magic (800-1000 regen with continuous and potion)

1800 Stam recovery is the absolute minimum I will be able to handle and this is with additional effects on gear like proc sets. 2200 Stam Regen if I’m on an extremely hard hitting build. 2500-3000 regen if I’m on a “kite and fight” build

Minimum 40% crit without Minor savagery

I’ve become accustomed to 16k resistances 2500-3200 inpen most I run 2 well fitted.

Surprise Attack tooltips
11k Kite and Fight with lots of regen 2500+
13k Tooltip on a more moderate build
16k on full Damage build(24k+ Dawnbreaker)

I also do not, have not , and will not use fear on my stamblade. Just personal from years of never running it. It will cause issues not running it.



Currently My build (can’t tell you exactas because we don’t need this roaming in Cyrodiil)

35k Max
1800 Regen (Stam) 2200 fully buffed
4066 WD no continuous no glyph
45% Crit
23k health

It’s a very very strong build and most of it isn’t presented here. But for the love of Cyrodiil I can’t tell you exactly.


A great build I’ve ran before for example is

Dw 2h Bone Pirate Truth 1 Domi 1 Kena Medium 5-1-1. Woodelf WD mundus. 1 Nirn 1 Infused.

This is the 2400 Regen 5k plus WD 41k Max Stam build.

It has the 16k tooltip surprise attack and up to a 27k Dawnbreaker. I’ve hit people with 18k+ in PvP. It’s a complicated setup.

You must come from the old school. I've always taken the folks willing to post their builds on the forums and for everybody else to see with a grain of salt. I don't share my build either. It's extremely unique and it took me months to create. I don't want to fight it, I don't want someone to know it and complain about it on the forums, and I don't want people to figure out how to kill me because I have a big mouth on the forums.

This secretiveness is why I'm creating a MagSorc guild in the traditional sense. Once people in the guild earn my trust I'll be willing to share with them, but until that point I'm only going to help them start by learning the basics.

That build is technically “retired” to me. I made it before jewelry crafting came out. It was the only way to have a WD proc set on jewelry being Stam based still running medium. So it’s a relic. Still really good but I’ve changed my whole playstyle since then on stamblades. So I don’t mind. Even got a couple of “hate” mail.

Like a decent magic sorc messages me and said “I would duel you but you hit way to hard with those 9k surprise attacks”

That was before sorc shields hass resistances.

The other builds I run now I will not release. Like you said I don’t want to fight it or deal with it.

The build I did post will allow him to hit extremely hard without procs(technically truth is a proc) but they will actually have to fight instead of sniping or something.

That MagSorc is soft. If he thinks your 9k surprise attacks are cheezie and that a duel will settle everything he could easily throw on Maw + Familiar + Matriarch w/ Plague / Necro / Skoria - run a zoo with Shock Reach & just heavy attack and murder you or force the duel into a draw.

Which is absolutely cheezie, as a Zoo like that is really hard to fight as a melee due to targeting issues if the MagSorc knows how to play.

The point of all this I guess is that anyone who resorts to "duel me" after you kill them, is silly. I swear the art of taking L's, learning from them, and moving on with your life, has been lost on the latest generation of gamers.

fred4

I come from an open-world CP background, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, as procs overperform in no CP by comparison. However, the procs you are using IMO don't lend themselves to a hit and run spec. Viper is reliable, but does it's damage over 4 seconds. When that set came out, it did all it's damage instantly. SInce that was changed, it has fallen by the wayside. Furthermore, in CP at least, Sloads will typically hit people for double the damage and is unresistable, albeit a random proc. I don't like that it's random and I feel the same about poisons. By contrast, a weapon with an (Oblivion) enchant is guaranteed to hit as part of your initial burst. All people really need to do against you is break free and dodge roll, unless your strategy is to get them with Steel Tornado and poisons. I basically think your "burst" is too long. That said, I am basing this on experience from CP. In no CP it is tougher to heal and your approach no doubt works better there. The question is, by how much?

Stamblades are IMO the one class that need not rely on procs, because their basic toolkit is so strong. This is why people run Spriggan / Bone Pirate. Hulking Draugr or any number of other stat-based damage sets will work in place of Bone Pirate. It's just that Bone Pirate is statistically the best set, if you want to use a drink (e.g. Dubious):

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427111/stat-based-armor-set-rankings

Shacklebreaker is an alternative, should you want better mag sustain.

I rarely play stamblade. I mostly play melee magblade. The latter is IMO forced to wear a proc set to be viable, if you want to play it like a stamblade. That set is Caluurion, a strong proc that fires after one second, not over 4 seconds. I used Troll King for a long time, but have come to the conclusion that doing so is a mistake. It's a good set for a more balanced duelling build, but as a stealth ganker it is IMO better to be all damage. I am, therefore, using Zaan, and I haven't looked back. Sets to consider for stamblade include Velidreth, Selene, Balorgh, or simply 2x separate weapon damage pieces (or 1x Domihaus, 1x weapon damage). Blood Spawn is quite popular as well, though, and the 1x Stam Regen from it may allow you to spec for more damage elsewhere.

The final set I use on the magblade is Skooma Smuggler. I also use 3x gold Swift jewelry. That particular setup is one that will not work on a stamblade, since I am relying on stacking so much speed, e.g. from Concealed Weapon as well, that Forward Momentum will get me out of trouble and the shade is becoming somewhat superfluous at times. If people do catch me, I am, however, extremely squishy, despite shields. I chose to invest in being fast, not tanky. This also works offensively, since I can keep up with perma dodge rollers and I often get the killing blow eventually. People have laughed at me and told me to use the magicka equivalent of Spriggan: Spinner's. My choice, however, is speed. On a stamblade, the set that will make you similarly hard to catch is probably Eternal Hunt.

Stamblades have insta-ganked me with no counterplay, while I was shielded. Now I am about as squishy as they come, but here is one way that's done: Use a setup like Spriggan / Bone Pirate / Balorgh with all damage enchants. Cloak up to a person and hit them with Snipe at point blank range, followed by Incap. Due to Snipe having a cast time, the two abilities will land instantaneously together. Due to Snipe also having a travel time, however short at point blank range, Incap lands first. That means Incap buffs Snipe for 20% and Balorgh is ative as well, even though Snipe was cast first. The target is stunned and has to spend 1 global cooldown (GCD) breaking free, if he is still alive. That means you can follow up with Killer's Blade with zero counterplay. In CP, against my squishy nightblade, the damage figures from the last time this happened to me were:

Incap Strike (crit): 10.5K
Lethal Arrow (non-crit): 9.3K
Killer's Blade (crit): 13.7K (while he had Minor Maim from my shade, so even higher in reality)

Not to mention light attacks can hit me for 3K and an enchant was probably also in the mix. Result: Instant death with no counterplay.

I am not saying use this. I think it's really only viable with Balorgh fully charged against people standing still on a resource. However, please take it as an illustration of what makes this game tick. I don't know all the tricks, but for example gap closers have a tendency to land simultaneously with other attacks, since they have a travel time. I see people, like Kristofer ESO on YouTube, explaining how he does a gap closer, a partially charged heavy attack while travelling, into an ability into a bash into a dodge roll. The end result is that the target gets hit with all of these things together in the same second, and since he automatically dodge rolls at the end, he can't be hit immediately afterwards himself. If using Eternal Hunt, that would also hit the target with that.

thedude33

MalagenR wrote: »

As mentioned earlier in the thread you generally have two choices:

Troll King - seriously this is the best choice hands down, you just can't beat raw healing % with CP's - your resists stop mattering when your hp hits 0, so making sure your hp doesnt hit zero > resists

Bloodspawn - I'd move to bloodspawn once you've mastered the class / resource management of the class - you can pressure test yourself with Veteran Maelstrom.

I don't care what a single PVP'er says, there is no better pressure test for whether or not a person can play their class than Veteran Maelstrom. You need kill speed, you need defense, you need self healing, all things you need to learn to do well in PVP, If you can't do those things in PVE, you can't do them in PVP, or maybe you can do them OK in PVP, because your major focus is PVP, but you can't define yourself as good or top tier.

These are obviously my opinions, but I think they make sense logically and you'd be hard pressed to formulate an argument to the contrary.

Damn, now I really feel bad. I've only dabbled with Maelstrom on regular level. Got frustrated on round 7 and haven't been back. Maybe that's why I'm so bad

fred4

thedude33 wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

As mentioned earlier in the thread you generally have two choices:

Troll King - seriously this is the best choice hands down, you just can't beat raw healing % with CP's - your resists stop mattering when your hp hits 0, so making sure your hp doesnt hit zero > resists

Bloodspawn - I'd move to bloodspawn once you've mastered the class / resource management of the class - you can pressure test yourself with Veteran Maelstrom.

I don't care what a single PVP'er says, there is no better pressure test for whether or not a person can play their class than Veteran Maelstrom. You need kill speed, you need defense, you need self healing, all things you need to learn to do well in PVP, If you can't do those things in PVE, you can't do them in PVP, or maybe you can do them OK in PVP, because your major focus is PVP, but you can't define yourself as good or top tier.

These are obviously my opinions, but I think they make sense logically and you'd be hard pressed to formulate an argument to the contrary.

Damn, now I really feel bad. I've only dabbled with Maelstrom on regular level. Got frustrated on round 7 and haven't been back. Maybe that's why I'm so bad

vMA is as close to objectivity as we have when it comes to judging player skill. Furthermore the kind of build you use to beat it is probably closer to PvP than to group PvE or at least somewhere inbetween. Whenever I make a new build, vMA is the acid test, before I take it into PvP. It gives you something consistent to test against, absent duelling friends.

mursie

I would recommend you Swing4Fences™

Shade is life. yes - it can be very frustrating. but it is extremely important to use. in BG's it is actually more forgiving and useful because most bg's offer a lot of LOS spaces and levels to place the shade.

shuffle/forward momentum is also extremely important. good luck!