Nord racial balance and other issues

tossop

Nord race is curently on pts nerfed pretty hard, they lost near 2k max stats on balanced pvp build, lost health recovery and new rugged passive 4k resist isnt any better then old 6% damage reduction, new ulty regen does not compesante for lost about 2k max stats, please give nord at least 2k health bonus.

Another issues in pvp are with overpowered procs in nocp pvp, things like master dualwield, caluurion, sloads, zaan overperforming, those sets need nerf by 10% - 15%, at least bleeds and enchants getting nerf. but 50% is too much. Combo master dualwield + sloads is too strong on any stam class in nocp pvp right now, counter is purge, troll king and greenpact + gold food, which kills build diversity. In cp pvp there are other sets like fury that need slight adjustments.

Another issues i see is in new deadly set, its buffs stamplar whose is already best class, 14% to jabs and master dualwield will be strong. Be ready for 15k rending + 8k bleeds from 1 skill +8k jabs in death recap...

Austinseph1

I don’t know, you just listed about 8 things that you wanted nerfed... sounds pretty diverse to me. Stop the nerfs. Adapting > Nerfs, mass nerfing things only makes problems worse.

Lughlongarm

Nord is fine, will be very popular in the upcoming patch.
Zos added 1 purge set and 1 health regen set this patch as wel,l so you have more build diversity if you think health regen/purge are a must.

tossop

Noone choose nord over orc, orc have wpn damage so u can take resistance from somewhere else, and u ended with more stats and sprint speed. New health recovery set doesnt have stats, its nowhere near to greenpact and purge set is magicka.

paulsimonps

I mean they basically became BiS PvE Tank Race so its a buff in that regard.

tossop

For pve its buff but in pvp its Big nerf to nords.

Strider__Roshin

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Nord is fine, will be very popular in the upcoming patch.
Zos added 1 purge set and 1 health regen set this patch as wel,l so you have more build diversity if you think health regen/purge are a must.

No they're not. I've been a Nord main since launch, and if nothing changes I'll be race changing for the first time. Unless you're a PvE tank they're going to be trash next update.

MartiniDaniels

Daus wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Nord is fine, will be very popular in the upcoming patch.
Zos added 1 purge set and 1 health regen set this patch as wel,l so you have more build diversity if you think health regen/purge are a must.

No they're not. I've been a Nord main since launch, and if nothing changes I'll be race changing for the first time. Unless you're a PvE tank they're going to be trash next update.

This is so bad thing from ZOS. First of all, BiS for tanking with unique feature, so basically all argonian and imperial tanks should race change or feel inferior now. On the other hand nord receives almost zero dps passives.. in my opinion devs should remove that ulti generation, decrease resistances to 3k and add 192 WD.

technohic

Why do people feel the need to start their own thread when there already is 1, and it is an official feedback thread?

HankTwo

If you break the passives down Nord seems a bit lacking compared to Orc:

Nord 1500 stamina vs Orc 2000 stamina = Orc wins
Nord 1000 health vs Orc 1000 health = Even
Nord 3960 resistances (77% of Fortified Brass 5-piece) vs Orc 258 weapon damage (86% of Hunding's Rage 5-piece) = Orc wins
Nord ultimate gain (50% of Werewolf Hide 5-piece) vs Orc sprint bonus (over 67% of Fjord's Legacy 5-piece) = Orc wins
Nord frost resistance vs Orc restore health = I'd give that one to the Nord

I have to say that I like the Nord ult generation for my PvP stam DK. Still, it would be a good change to give Nord 2000 stamina, imo, to make them even in that regard with all the other stamina races (Orc, Imperial, Redguard, Bosmer, they all get 2k stam).

JAwtunes

HankTwo wrote: »

Nord 3960 resistances (77% of Fortified Brass 5-piece) vs Orc 258 weapon damage (86% of Hunding's Rage 5-piece) = Orc wins

Depends what you cherry pick, for example...
Nord 3960 spell AND physical resistances (equivalent to x2.7 '2-4 set bonuses', 2975 S or P [edit] RES) vs Orc 258 weapon damage (equivalent to x2 '2-4 set bonuses', 129 WD) = Nord wins

Checkmath

JAwtunes wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Nord 3960 resistances (77% of Fortified Brass 5-piece) vs Orc 258 weapon damage (86% of Hunding's Rage 5-piece) = Orc wins

Depends what you cherry pick, for example...
Nord 3960 spell AND physical resistances (equivalent to x2.7 '2-4 set bonuses', 2975 S or P pen) vs Orc 258 weapon damage (equivalent to x2 '2-4 set bonuses', 129 WD) = Nord wins

You also need to think about that resistance set boni are only for one specific resistance. So nord has a 5.4 times of a single 2-4 bonus with their resistance, meanwhile orcs have two times a weapon damage bonus.

Generally it is better to compare the racial stats to 2-4 set boni and not to 5th piece boni, since the 5th piece boni are very unbalanced currently, especially if we look at older sets.

JAwtunes

Checkmath wrote: »

You also need to think about that resistance set boni are only for one specific resistance. So nord has a 5.4 times of a single 2-4 bonus with their resistance, meanwhile orcs have two times a weapon damage bonus.

Generally it is better to compare the racial stats to 2-4 set boni and not to 5th piece boni, since the 5th piece boni are very unbalanced currently, especially if we look at older sets.

I did account for the fact that the Nord bonus is for both S and P resistance (I even included '"AND" and "or" to my text to try make the distinction), so x2.7 is correct and can be compared to the inferior x2 multiplier for WD.

I agree, comparing 2-4 set bonuses is a better way to make such comparisons.

HankTwo

JAwtunes wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Nord 3960 resistances (77% of Fortified Brass 5-piece) vs Orc 258 weapon damage (86% of Hunding's Rage 5-piece) = Orc wins

Depends what you cherry pick, for example...
Nord 3960 spell AND physical resistances (equivalent to x2.7 '2-4 set bonuses', 2975 S or P pen) vs Orc 258 weapon damage (equivalent to x2 '2-4 set bonuses', 129 WD) = Nord wins

Checkmath wrote: »

JAwtunes wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Nord 3960 resistances (77% of Fortified Brass 5-piece) vs Orc 258 weapon damage (86% of Hunding's Rage 5-piece) = Orc wins

Depends what you cherry pick, for example...
Nord 3960 spell AND physical resistances (equivalent to x2.7 '2-4 set bonuses', 2975 S or P pen) vs Orc 258 weapon damage (equivalent to x2 '2-4 set bonuses', 129 WD) = Nord wins

You also need to think about that resistance set boni are only for one specific resistance. So nord has a 5.4 times of a single 2-4 bonus with their resistance, meanwhile orcs have two times a weapon damage bonus.

Generally it is better to compare the racial stats to 2-4 set boni and not to 5th piece boni, since the 5th piece boni are very unbalanced currently, especially if we look at older sets.

I get your point but in this case 5-piece bonuses are the better metric, imo, because people chose their sets mostly for the last big bonus and both fortified brass and hundings are considered somewhat viable. Nobody would wear a resistance set like brass, armor master or pariah if they would only give physical OR spell resistance with their last bonus.

The same is true for jewelry traits. Both infused and protective are popular among PvP players. This alone shows that they are somewhat balanced. Infused on a weapon damage jewelry piece gives 104 weapon damage while protective gives 1844 physical AND spell resistance. Many considers this a fair trade off. Again, if protective would give only one of the two bonuses it would be considered a useless trait by most. If we use the jewelry trait metric then Nord gets 2.14 protective bonuses while Orc gets 2.48. Still, Orc wins.

And then there are also things like pirate skelleton, chudan and lord warden with both resistances on the same 1-piece bonus. I'd say single piece bonuses that only give one of the resistances are considered pretty bad and significantly weaker than a weapon or spell damage bonus, and rightly so.

PS: Would be nice if ZOS could finally figure out universal ratios between the stats (like damage, resource, regen, resistances, and so on), because there are different ratios for mundus stones, jewelry glyphs, 2-4 set piece bonuses, 5-piece set bonuses, jewelry traits, weapon traits, armor traits, and so. That's pretty ridiculous.

HankTwo

JAwtunes wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

You also need to think about that resistance set boni are only for one specific resistance. So nord has a 5.4 times of a single 2-4 bonus with their resistance, meanwhile orcs have two times a weapon damage bonus.

Generally it is better to compare the racial stats to 2-4 set boni and not to 5th piece boni, since the 5th piece boni are very unbalanced currently, especially if we look at older sets.

I did account for the fact that the Nord bonus is for both S and P resistance (I even included '"AND" and "or" to my text to try make the distinction), so x2.7 is correct and can be compared to the inferior x2 multiplier for WD.

I agree, comparing 2-4 set bonuses is a better way to make such comparisons.

I mean, what do you think is the most balanced among these?

a) 266 physical and spell resistance vs 100 weapon damage
b) 688 vs 100
c) 1153 vs 100
d) 1156 vs 100
e) 1166 vs 100
f) 1376 vs 100
g) 1729 vs 100
h) 1812 vs 100
i) 2306 vs 100

Hint: all of these different ratios for resistance vs weapon damage are found in game, no joke.

Imo:
a) and b) no comment… :P
c) to e) weapon damage is clearly better
f) weapon damage is still a bit better
g) and h) somewhere around here is the sweet spot
i) resistances win here

Excelsus

There's another thread like 5 posters down about how Nord is going to be broken OP in pvp because theyre immune to chilled and according to that poster wall of frost spam is whats ruining pvp this week, but according to you its stamplars, and I just saw a thread how its all 4 man werewolf teams in bgs... maybe the reason zos cant get pvp balance right is because you guys can't even agree on what's wrong with it. I swear its like every poster on here is playing a different game.