Bosmer Roll Dodge - Major Evasion?

BlueRaven

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

twing1_ wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

No other race gets a buff with a name, so Bosmer shouldn't get one either.

I don't understand.

High Elf

Spell Recharge
Syrabane’s Boon
Elemental Talent

Argonian

Resourceful
Argonian Resistance
Life Mender

Breton

Gift of Magnus
Spell Attunement
Magicka Mastery

Dark Elf

Dynamic
Resist Flame
Ruination

...etc

I don't understand your point.

The buff "major evasion" already exists in the game. It reduces the damage of incoming aoe attacks by 25% and is granted by certain skills and item sets.

Giving the bosmer this named buff would mean that it cannot stack with other sources. As such a bosmer running nbs double take would be redundant, because the major evasion from double take and major evasion from roll dodge wouldn't double the bonus.

No other racial passives grant a named buff like this that can be obtained from other sources in the game.

@BlueRaven

Oh! I see. I misread your post.

Thanks!

GrumpyDuckling

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

Bosmer are AGILE (Definition: "Marked by ready ability to move with quick easy grace")
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agile

Bosmer agility isn't about moving at a top speed that is faster than other races, it's about how they are ready to perform quick movements (see: roll dodge) more easily and with grace. It doesn't make sense to give Bosmer an increase in overall movement speed when they perform a dodge roll -- that's not how agility works -- it would make much more sense to give them a reduced cost for dodge roll because they are able to perform agile movements (again, see: dodge roll) more easily than other races.

Benefits of this change:

• It doesn't introduce PVP problems of movement speed.
• It can be used in both PVP and PVE.
• It's enough of a nerf to the current PTS version of Hunter's Eye that it allows you to add a flat, permanent bonus to Penetration (which makes perfect sense -- Bosmer are hunters and should excel at targeting their opponents weak spots in their armor).

Minno

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Bosmer are AGILE (Definition: "Marked by ready ability to move with quick easy grace")
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agile

Bosmer agility isn't about moving at a top speed that is faster than other races, it's about how they are ready to perform quick movements (see: roll dodge) more easily and with grace. It doesn't make sense to give Bosmer an increase in overall movement speed when they perform a dodge roll -- that's not how agility works -- it would make much more sense to give them a reduced cost for dodge roll because they are able to perform agile movements (again, see: dodge roll) more easily than other races.

Benefits of this change:

• It doesn't introduce PVP problems of movement speed.
• It can be used in both PVP and PVE.
• It's enough of a nerf to the current PTS version of Hunter's Eye that it allows you to add a flat, permanent bonus to Penetration (which makes perfect sense -- Bosmer are hunters and should excel at targeting their opponents weak spots in their armor).

Agility in Oblivion meant more dmg to bows, better sneaking and chance to not be staggered when hit lol.

simeion

I would love to see them change this passive to Feeding Frenzy: 5% execute damage with enemies under 15% health.

This could be lore friendly since according to the green pack Wood Elves are supposed to eat their enemy after defeat. This execute damage would be the frenzy involved in knowing their enemy is about to die.

This passive would not be OP and be friendly to PvP and PvE.

Eiron77

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

Hunter's Eye: - The radius you can be detected while in stealth is reduced by 3m and your weapon/spell penetration increases by X amount. Additionally, when you use Roll Dodge the stamina cost is reduced by (50%/100%) and your movement speed increases by 10% for X seconds. This ability has an internal cooldown of 18 seconds.

This does several things:
- Allows the hunter to better sneak upon its prey.
- Demonstrates the hunter's ability to cut through its prey's defenses
- Makes the choice to roll dodge feel natural, rather than a high cost, resource intensive decision
- The internal cooldown prevents abusing the reduced cost and speed boost
- The internal cooldown helps balance adding a flat penetration bonus.

Cundu_Ertur

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

Eiron77 wrote: »

Hunter's Eye: - The radius you can be detected while in stealth is reduced by 3m and your weapon/spell penetration increases by X amount. Additionally, when you use Roll Dodge the stamina cost is reduced by (50%/100%) and your movement speed increases by 10% for X seconds. This ability has an internal cooldown of 18 seconds.

This does several things:
- Allows the hunter to better sneak upon its prey.
- Demonstrates the hunter's ability to cut through its prey's defenses
- Makes the choice to roll dodge feel natural, rather than a high cost, resource intensive decision
- The internal cooldown prevents abusing the reduced cost and speed boost
- The internal cooldown helps balance adding a flat penetration bonus.

Good one. The cooldown is a good idea to keep people from rolling around like crazy things. The roll-dodge cost reduction is a bit much even at the 50% mark. 35% is what you get with 7 bits of gold well-fitted armor. 10-20% would be more reasonable. It would still be a fairly stamina expensive thing to have.

Eiron77

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Eiron77 wrote: »

Hunter's Eye: - The radius you can be detected while in stealth is reduced by 3m and your weapon/spell penetration increases by X amount. Additionally, when you use Roll Dodge the stamina cost is reduced by (50%/100%) and your movement speed increases by 10% for X seconds. This ability has an internal cooldown of 18 seconds.

This does several things:
- Allows the hunter to better sneak upon its prey.
- Demonstrates the hunter's ability to cut through its prey's defenses
- Makes the choice to roll dodge feel natural, rather than a high cost, resource intensive decision
- The internal cooldown prevents abusing the reduced cost and speed boost
- The internal cooldown helps balance adding a flat penetration bonus.

Good one. The cooldown is a good idea to keep people from rolling around like crazy things. The roll-dodge cost reduction is a bit much even at the 50% mark. 35% is what you get with 7 bits of gold well-fitted armor. 10-20% would be more reasonable. It would still be a fairly stamina expensive thing to have.

Yeah, I'd rather not even have the roll dodge. So I agree with what you're saying, but at that point why even have the internal cooldown. On further retrospect, I'd prefer just a flat 5/8/10% reduction to roll dodge. Make it the same make-up as the other races passives, like Imperials block reduction, redguards weapon skills reduction, etc. It would be best for wood elves to not have the only racial that's "activated".

NyassaV

Minor Evasion would be ok

Tasear

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

People keep rating this as a bad PVE passive, but I think they miss the point. Grade it as a PVP passive as it was intended and then you can start moving forward.

Should of never been just a PvP passive in first place.

Wuuffyy

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

Eiron77 wrote: »

Hunter's Eye: - The radius you can be detected while in stealth is reduced by 3m and your weapon/spell penetration increases by X amount. Additionally, when you use Roll Dodge the stamina cost is reduced by (50%/100%) and your movement speed increases by 10% for X seconds. This ability has an internal cooldown of 18 seconds.

This does several things:
- Allows the hunter to better sneak upon its prey.
- Demonstrates the hunter's ability to cut through its prey's defenses
- Makes the choice to roll dodge feel natural, rather than a high cost, resource intensive decision
- The internal cooldown prevents abusing the reduced cost and speed boost
- The internal cooldown helps balance adding a flat penetration bonus.

Ha that would be so OP I would just change my mag and stam guys to it.

BlueRaven

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

Tasear wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

People keep rating this as a bad PVE passive, but I think they miss the point. Grade it as a PVP passive as it was intended and then you can start moving forward.

Should of never been just a PvP passive in first place.

^This. Passives should at least try to be good in PvE and PvP.

TankinatorFR

BlueRaven wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

People keep rating this as a bad PVE passive, but I think they miss the point. Grade it as a PVP passive as it was intended and then you can start moving forward.

Should of never been just a PvP passive in first place.

^This. Passives should at least try to be good in PvE and PvP.

Especially when you consider that the old passive was useful in PvE.

MartiniDaniels

So I get new "amazing" idea about this roll dodge penetration. It may apply special debuff to target instead of buffing bosmer himself. I mean, on roll dodge bosmer gets "acid poison" on weapon which may be applied in 6 seconds and which decreases target spell and physical resistance for 1500 for 10 seconds.
So this won't bring big imbalance to PVP (where bosmer looks ok) but will make bosmer valuable part of group for PVE ^^

idk

I expect ZOS intends this passive will be a nice plus for when a player does have to side roll. I think they could do a better job explaining this as it seems many misunderstand or just want their favorite raw to eh stronger regardless.

MartiniDaniels

idk wrote: »

I expect ZOS intends this passive will be a nice plus for when a player does have to side roll. I think they could do a better job explaining this as it seems many misunderstand or just want their favorite raw to eh stronger regardless.

It was already told by enormous amount of people, that dodge roll is defensive move, not offensive, so those 1500 penetration for 6 sec is as useless as stealth detection. So people are asking to exchange this two useless things for something either practical or at least fun and lore friendly.

idk

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I expect ZOS intends this passive will be a nice plus for when a player does have to side roll. I think they could do a better job explaining this as it seems many misunderstand or just want their favorite raw to eh stronger regardless.

It was already told by enormous amount of people, that dodge roll is defensive move, not offensive, so those 1500 penetration for 6 sec is as useless as stealth detection. So people are asking to exchange this two useless things for something either practical or at least fun and lore friendly.

Unless they’re running away it’s a safe bet they will do some sort of attack after that dodge roll of they are a decent player. If they’re running away it doesn’t really matter.

So what you way doesn’t make sense. It just sounds as you want something different because you want something different.

MartiniDaniels

idk wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I expect ZOS intends this passive will be a nice plus for when a player does have to side roll. I think they could do a better job explaining this as it seems many misunderstand or just want their favorite raw to eh stronger regardless.

It was already told by enormous amount of people, that dodge roll is defensive move, not offensive, so those 1500 penetration for 6 sec is as useless as stealth detection. So people are asking to exchange this two useless things for something either practical or at least fun and lore friendly.

Unless they’re running away it’s a safe bet they will do some sort of attack after that dodge roll of they are a decent player. If they’re running away it doesn’t really matter.

So what you way doesn’t make sense. It just sounds as you want something different because you want something different.

Me? Just open any thread about bosmers and even people who don't have bosmer toons think that this penetration after roll dodge is trash and joke.

Cundu_Ertur

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

If it was a joke I'd be laughing.
We lose stealth and damage out of stealth, to get..... this.


No, definitely NOT laughing.
Also, not wasting 3 skill points on it, either.

BlueRaven

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

idk wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I expect ZOS intends this passive will be a nice plus for when a player does have to side roll. I think they could do a better job explaining this as it seems many misunderstand or just want their favorite raw to eh stronger regardless.

It was already told by enormous amount of people, that dodge roll is defensive move, not offensive, so those 1500 penetration for 6 sec is as useless as stealth detection. So people are asking to exchange this two useless things for something either practical or at least fun and lore friendly.

Unless they’re running away it’s a safe bet they will do some sort of attack after that dodge roll of they are a decent player. If they’re running away it doesn’t really matter.

So what you way doesn’t make sense. It just sounds as you want something different because you want something different.

Me? Just open any thread about bosmers and even people who don't have bosmer toons think that this penetration after roll dodge is trash and joke.

Agreed it is a very bad passive. It is squarely aimed at a very niche PvP build.

I suppose the speed after the roll can be useful in a few very trial fights, but not useful enough to actual put points in this.

And that armor pen is just dumb, if I am doing a roll it is to move quickly, I am not dumping that much stamina and trying to get a shot in. I would rather just do two dps attacks.

Just an awful concept for a passive.

Iskiab

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

Major evasion is a bad idea, odds are anyone who’d play a bosmer will wear medium and already have access to it. Major protection though... now we’re talking.

josh.lackey_ESO

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

Get rid of it entirely.

joaaocaampos

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

If you roll dodge, speed. If you stay immobile, penetration. It would work like the "Mantle of Siroria" effect.

Wood Elf

• Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. While you are not moving, a small ring is created beneath you for 6 seconds. Standing in the ring grants you a stack of Hunter’s Eye for 3 seconds. Each stack increases your Physical and Spell Penetration by 330. 5 stacks max. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 10% Movement Speed for 6 seconds.

ku5h

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

1500 Physical and Spell Resistance for 3 sec.

anatole1234

Keep roll dodge as is (speed and penetration)

Don't touch it, as a pvper using senche's bite it's great . Can actually drop spriggan for bone pirate now