Bosmer Roll Dodge - Major Evasion?

twing1_

There seems to be a good number of players who are unhappy with the penetration bonus received from roll dodging as a bosmer.

Most of the threads I've read are concerned that this will go largely unused, and even when it is used, unnoticed. 1500 penetration seems like a very small bonus for such a costly move, especially taking into consideration that in raids, most damage dealers will be at pen cap anyway.

Another argument makes the claim, with merit in my opinion, that an offensive bonus attached to a defensive maneuver seems out of place.

So what if roll dodge granted a defensive bonus?

The speed bonus tied to the roll dodge makes sense in this regard. It helps roll dodging bosmer avoid enemy attacks by getting out of harms way even quicker. I think something that would complement this even further is major evasion.

In my experience, roll dodging is primarily used to avoid enemy projectile and aoe attacks. Sometimes, people don't get out of the aoe in time. Adding major evasion to the roll dodge bonus instead of penetration could potentially provide a safety net so that even if they fail to avoid the aoe, they would take 25% less damage from it and potentially not get one-shotted.

This wouldn't provide a huge bonus for end game content and wouldn't contribute to their offensive power at all, but it seems like it could be a nice bonus that could potentially keep bosmer alive after a crucial mistake. Most of the time, it will go unnoticed, but when you need it it would literally be a life saver.

So what do you guys think? Do you think major evasion on roll dodging makes sense?

Razorback174

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

*Edit: Disregard. Mixed up Evasion and Expedtion.*

You can already get major evasion when you roll with a bow. Most bosmer players run stamina, and likely have a bow equipped on at least one of their bars.That would make this passive even more useless than it is in the current PTS.

They need something else.

Minno

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

Medicinal boost. Having 2 effect poisons constantly procing would be more interesting and unique to bosmer or builds looking to be more assassin. Like here's the poisons you could make:
- double poison (both)
- poison+ cost increase (PvP)
- poison+hot (some pve + PvP)
- weapon crit + poison (both)

The list is endless and very much fits build diversity.

Agreed that the current penetration feels boring but let's not pretend bosmer will be getting penetration without a condition on top of 2k Stam + Regen lol.

twing1_

Have roll dodge grant major evasion (speed and major evasion)

Razorback174 wrote: »

You can already get major evasion when you roll with a bow. Most bosmer players run stamina, and likely have a bow equipped on at least one of their bars.That would make this passive even more useless than it is in the current PTS.

They need something else.

Bow grants you major expedition, not evasion.

Expedition increases your movement speed, evasion reduces your damage taken from aoe attacks by 25%.

Razorback174

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

Razorback174 wrote: »

You can already get major evasion when you roll with a bow. Most bosmer players run stamina, and likely have a bow equipped on at least one of their bars.That would make this passive even more useless than it is in the current PTS.

They need something else.

My mistake, I'm thinking expediton. Even still, tying a passive to roll dodge doesn't make sense. At that point, it's more of an active skill than a passive one.

twing1_

Have roll dodge grant major evasion (speed and major evasion)

Minno wrote: »

Medicinal boost. Having 2 effect poisons constantly procing would be more interesting and unique to bosmer or builds looking to be more assassin. Like here's the poisons you could make:
- double poison (both)
- poison+ cost increase (PvP)
- poison+hot (some pve + PvP)
- weapon crit + poison (both)

The list is endless and very much fits build diversity.

Agreed that the current penetration feels boring but let's not pretend bosmer will be getting penetration without a condition on top of 2k Stam + Regen lol.

I'm not quite understanding what you are suggesting. Having roll dodge reset the cooldown on poisons?

ankeor

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

Keep movement speed bonus as it is with roll dodge, seperate the penetration from roll dodge.

"When you deal damage with a single target direct damage ability you gain 1500 penetration for 6 sec."

It has no cooldown. Why there is a condition for getting pen? So they can not burst people from stealth. Once they get into fight they can have the pen almost indefinitely.

Minno

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

twing1_ wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Medicinal boost. Having 2 effect poisons constantly procing would be more interesting and unique to bosmer or builds looking to be more assassin. Like here's the poisons you could make:
- double poison (both)
- poison+ cost increase (PvP)
- poison+hot (some pve + PvP)
- weapon crit + poison (both)

The list is endless and very much fits build diversity.

Agreed that the current penetration feels boring but let's not pretend bosmer will be getting penetration without a condition on top of 2k Stam + Regen lol.

I'm not quite understanding what you are suggesting. Having roll dodge reset the cooldown on poisons?

Similar to high elf passive having two effects. Maybe this goes on another passive, but the basic premise is it replaces the penetration. This way all bosmer, according to role, can pickup some interesting utility out of alchemy.

Edit:
And this new passive could increase the duration of options/poisons by either seconds or by percentage. Something that could open up 1 trait poisons to be 100% uptime, 2 trait 80-90% and 3 trait 60% uptime.

frostz417

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

No. Don’t need bosmer being stupid OP. They’re already annoying enough with rolly Polly cloak spamblades

twing1_

Have roll dodge grant major evasion (speed and major evasion)

Minno wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Medicinal boost. Having 2 effect poisons constantly procing would be more interesting and unique to bosmer or builds looking to be more assassin. Like here's the poisons you could make:
- double poison (both)
- poison+ cost increase (PvP)
- poison+hot (some pve + PvP)
- weapon crit + poison (both)

The list is endless and very much fits build diversity.

Agreed that the current penetration feels boring but let's not pretend bosmer will be getting penetration without a condition on top of 2k Stam + Regen lol.

I'm not quite understanding what you are suggesting. Having roll dodge reset the cooldown on poisons?

Similar to high elf passive having two effects. Maybe this goes on another passive, but the basic premise is it replaces the penetration. This way all bosmer, according to role, can pickup some interesting utility out of alchemy.

But what does it do? It removes the cooldown of poisons?

twing1_

Have roll dodge grant major evasion (speed and major evasion)

frostz417 wrote: »

No. Don’t need bosmer being stupid OP. They’re already annoying enough with rolly Polly cloak spamblades

Remember, evasion only reduces damage taken from AoE effects. Single target abilities would still be 100% damage.

Also, the wording of the option you chose strongly suggests that your response will be accompanied by a suggestion.

Juhasow

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

Changing penetration to resistances. Major evasion would be stupid and would basically contradict whole premise of AoE as counter to dodge roll.

SpringEternal

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

The passive is supposed to represent a hunter's keen eyes so how about increased range on long-range abilities instead? Similar to the Assault skill line's Reach passive without having to be tethered to a keep. More lore friendly than rolling around.

Or better yet, just go back to stealthy. Maybe? Yes? Pretty please?

validifyedneb18_ESO

Keep roll dodge as is (speed and penetration)

People keep rating this as a bad PVE passive, but I think they miss the point. Grade it as a PVP passive as it was intended and then you can start moving forward.

frostz417

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

twing1_ wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

No. Don’t need bosmer being stupid OP. They’re already annoying enough with rolly Polly cloak spamblades

Remember, evasion only reduces damage taken from AoE effects. Single target abilities would still be 100% damage.

Also, the wording of the option you chose strongly suggests that your response will be accompanied by a suggestion.

You do realize AOE includes dawnbreaker, beetles, destro ult, leap, meteor, steel tornado, permafrost, jabs, crescent sweeps, cleave, sap essence, pulsar etc. Basically almost everyone toolkit aside from a stamblade. Nah I’ll pass on that. That’s way too strong. Nightblades don’t need anymore indirect buffs. Especially since 98% of stamNB’s are wood elves. The roll dodge passive is already going to be cancer to fight against having kids spam roll dodge and just zoom away with that major expedition granted from Bow passive and then bosmer passive combined. gg

twing1_

Have roll dodge grant major evasion (speed and major evasion)

frostz417 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

No. Don’t need bosmer being stupid OP. They’re already annoying enough with rolly Polly cloak spamblades

Remember, evasion only reduces damage taken from AoE effects. Single target abilities would still be 100% damage.

Also, the wording of the option you chose strongly suggests that your response will be accompanied by a suggestion.

You do realize AOE includes dawnbreaker, beetles, destro ult, leap, meteor, steel tornado, permafrost, jabs, crescent sweeps, cleave, sap essence, pulsar etc. Basically almost everyone toolkit aside from a stamblade. Nah I’ll pass on that. That’s way too strong. Nightblades don’t need anymore indirect buffs. Especially since 98% of stamNB’s are wood elves. The roll dodge passive is already going to be cancer to fight against having kids spam roll dodge and just zoom away with that major expedition granted from Bow passive and then bosmer passive combined. gg

I've never heard the argument for Bosmer's roll dodge passive being too op before. interesting point of view

WikiMeister

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

Dodging - a reactionary maneuver to avoid powerful blows/projectiles, hazards, or simply to quickly reposition into a more advantageous position, SHOULD be designed with defense in mind. As a Bosmer, with their smaller stature and agility, should not only receive a temporary speed boost (6 seconds as per PTS 4.3.3), but straight damage mitigation for the same duration, about 6%. This provides them an empowered dodge-roll exclusive to the race and useful in all combat situations whether PvP or PvE.

frostz417

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

twing1_ wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

No. Don’t need bosmer being stupid OP. They’re already annoying enough with rolly Polly cloak spamblades

Remember, evasion only reduces damage taken from AoE effects. Single target abilities would still be 100% damage.

Also, the wording of the option you chose strongly suggests that your response will be accompanied by a suggestion.

You do realize AOE includes dawnbreaker, beetles, destro ult, leap, meteor, steel tornado, permafrost, jabs, crescent sweeps, cleave, sap essence, pulsar etc. Basically almost everyone toolkit aside from a stamblade. Nah I’ll pass on that. That’s way too strong. Nightblades don’t need anymore indirect buffs. Especially since 98% of stamNB’s are wood elves. The roll dodge passive is already going to be cancer to fight against having kids spam roll dodge and just zoom away with that major expedition granted from Bow passive and then bosmer passive combined. gg

I've never heard the argument for Bosmer's roll dodge passive being too op before. interesting point of view

It was 20% movement speed increase before they reduced it to 10%.. can you imagine 20% stacked with major expedition with bow passive on a rolly Polly cloakblade? 50% movement speed increase straight off the bat

twing1_

Have roll dodge grant major evasion (speed and major evasion)

frostz417 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

No. Don’t need bosmer being stupid OP. They’re already annoying enough with rolly Polly cloak spamblades

Remember, evasion only reduces damage taken from AoE effects. Single target abilities would still be 100% damage.

Also, the wording of the option you chose strongly suggests that your response will be accompanied by a suggestion.

You do realize AOE includes dawnbreaker, beetles, destro ult, leap, meteor, steel tornado, permafrost, jabs, crescent sweeps, cleave, sap essence, pulsar etc. Basically almost everyone toolkit aside from a stamblade. Nah I’ll pass on that. That’s way too strong. Nightblades don’t need anymore indirect buffs. Especially since 98% of stamNB’s are wood elves. The roll dodge passive is already going to be cancer to fight against having kids spam roll dodge and just zoom away with that major expedition granted from Bow passive and then bosmer passive combined. gg

Every Pvp build also runs single target abilities. Should I list a number of those?

Additionally, considering this further, night blades already have access to major evasion through double take. They are in fact the only class that currently has access to this buff. It would seem then, that they would actually get the least amount of benefit from this skill, in comparison to the other classes.

keevil111

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

The evasion is a nice idea. Also the alchemy one.

The only way penetration from roll dodge would be cool is if it lasted way longer. 15 seconds or something.

I like the idea of defense for Wood Elf, but penetration does seem to fit with the bow. Arrows "penetrating" the target."

If they could tie pen to direct damage or after you drink a potion that would be nice. You could allocate a few CP away from pen to bolster something else.

frostz417

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

twing1_ wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

No. Don’t need bosmer being stupid OP. They’re already annoying enough with rolly Polly cloak spamblades

Remember, evasion only reduces damage taken from AoE effects. Single target abilities would still be 100% damage.

Also, the wording of the option you chose strongly suggests that your response will be accompanied by a suggestion.

You do realize AOE includes dawnbreaker, beetles, destro ult, leap, meteor, steel tornado, permafrost, jabs, crescent sweeps, cleave, sap essence, pulsar etc. Basically almost everyone toolkit aside from a stamblade. Nah I’ll pass on that. That’s way too strong. Nightblades don’t need anymore indirect buffs. Especially since 98% of stamNB’s are wood elves. The roll dodge passive is already going to be cancer to fight against having kids spam roll dodge and just zoom away with that major expedition granted from Bow passive and then bosmer passive combined. gg

Every Pvp build also runs single target abilities. Should I list a number of those?

Additionally, considering this further, night blades already have access to major evasion through double take. They are in fact the only class that currently has access to this buff. It would seem then, that they would actually get the least amount of benefit from this skill, in comparison to the other classes.

Templars spammable is an AOE as well as their ultimate
wardens both stam and mag mostly use AOE abilities (beetles, permafrost/northernstorm)
Almost all stamclasses use AOE ultimates aside from nightblades. Dawnbreaker, leap, etc.

twing1_

Have roll dodge grant major evasion (speed and major evasion)

frostz417 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

No. Don’t need bosmer being stupid OP. They’re already annoying enough with rolly Polly cloak spamblades

Remember, evasion only reduces damage taken from AoE effects. Single target abilities would still be 100% damage.

Also, the wording of the option you chose strongly suggests that your response will be accompanied by a suggestion.

You do realize AOE includes dawnbreaker, beetles, destro ult, leap, meteor, steel tornado, permafrost, jabs, crescent sweeps, cleave, sap essence, pulsar etc. Basically almost everyone toolkit aside from a stamblade. Nah I’ll pass on that. That’s way too strong. Nightblades don’t need anymore indirect buffs. Especially since 98% of stamNB’s are wood elves. The roll dodge passive is already going to be cancer to fight against having kids spam roll dodge and just zoom away with that major expedition granted from Bow passive and then bosmer passive combined. gg

Every Pvp build also runs single target abilities. Should I list a number of those?

Additionally, considering this further, night blades already have access to major evasion through double take. They are in fact the only class that currently has access to this buff. It would seem then, that they would actually get the least amount of benefit from this skill, in comparison to the other classes.

Templars spammable is an AOE as well as their ultimate
wardens both stam and mag mostly use AOE abilities (beetles, permafrost/northernstorm)
Almost all stamclasses use AOE ultimates aside from nightblades. Dawnbreaker, leap, etc.

Understood. As I also use aoe ultimates, I'm pretty familiar with these. I also know, however, that the last thing I am going to do is drop one anywhere near an enemies use of roll dodge anyway. This is to avoid it potentially being dodged by the short dodge chance window granted after the roll is complete.

Cundu_Ertur

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

Bosmer need a stealth bonus back; either in conjunction with counter-stealth, or instead of it.

Instead of some weird roll-dodge penetration thing, they should have some kind of all-the-time bonus to using bows. "No finer archers in Tamriel," said every game and bit of lore, but this has not been represented in any way thus far in ESO, aside from the 15% exp gain which is useless once the skill is maxed.

Mayrael

Keep roll dodge as is (speed and penetration)

Do not overbuff this or any race or you will find it will be nerfed to the ground after two weeks on live. What I see here is an attitude "I don't care about balance, I just want to get as big piece of cake as I can". Stop. Bosmers are still at the top when it goes to stam characters.

TankHealz2015

Have roll dodge grant major evasion (speed and major evasion)

Ideas:

after dodge roll, you gain 1500 penetration for 6 seconds for 10 seconds.

or

increase penetration by 500 at all times.

or

after dodge roll, gain minor evasion (this is a very rare minor buff) for 10 seconds.

twing1_

Have roll dodge grant major evasion (speed and major evasion)

Mayrael wrote: »

Do not overbuff this or any race or you will find it will be nerfed to the ground after two weeks on live. What I see here is an attitude "I don't care about balance, I just want to get as big piece of cake as I can". Stop. Bosmers are still at the top when it goes to stam characters.

They are beaten by both orcs and dunmer in the latest parsing. They are about even with redguards, on account of their sustain. I thought that adding a bit of a defensive bonus would give them an area to shine in compared to the other stamina races.

Ratzkifal

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

No other race gets a buff with a name, so Bosmer shouldn't get one either. That doesn't mean I am against a reduction to area of effect damage (although I think they need an offensive rather than defensive boost), it just means that it shouldn't be a Major Evasion buff so Bosmer still have a reason to use Major Evasion skills on top of it.

Flat penetration at all times is a useful bonus for both pvp and pve. Mag Healers don't pick a stamina race anyway and the two stam healers in existence already like Bosmer enough for their sustain.

Wuuffyy

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

Ew what about minor. Only one hardly picked source and that’s from a pay to win class.

twing1_

Have roll dodge grant major evasion (speed and major evasion)

Ratzkifal wrote: »

No other race gets a buff with a name, so Bosmer shouldn't get one either. That doesn't mean I am against a reduction to area of effect damage (although I think they need an offensive rather than defensive boost), it just means that it shouldn't be a Major Evasion buff so Bosmer still have a reason to use Major Evasion skills on top of it.

Flat penetration at all times is a useful bonus for both pvp and pve. Mag Healers don't pick a stamina class anyway and the two stam healers in existence already like Bosmer enough for their sustain.

Very good point about named bonuses and race passives

BlueRaven

Something else should be done, here is my suggestion:

Ratzkifal wrote: »

No other race gets a buff with a name, so Bosmer shouldn't get one either.

I don't understand.

High Elf

Spell Recharge
Syrabane’s Boon
Elemental Talent

Argonian

Resourceful
Argonian Resistance
Life Mender

Breton

Gift of Magnus
Spell Attunement
Magicka Mastery

Dark Elf

Dynamic
Resist Flame
Ruination

...etc

I don't understand your point.

twing1_

Have roll dodge grant major evasion (speed and major evasion)

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

No other race gets a buff with a name, so Bosmer shouldn't get one either.

I don't understand.

High Elf

Spell Recharge
Syrabane’s Boon
Elemental Talent

Argonian

Resourceful
Argonian Resistance
Life Mender

Breton

Gift of Magnus
Spell Attunement
Magicka Mastery

Dark Elf

Dynamic
Resist Flame
Ruination

...etc

I don't understand your point.

The buff "major evasion" already exists in the game. It reduces the damage of incoming aoe attacks by 25% and is granted by certain skills and item sets.

Giving the bosmer this named buff would mean that it cannot stack with other sources. As such a bosmer running nbs double take would be redundant, because the major evasion from double take and major evasion from roll dodge wouldn't double the bonus.

No other racial passives grant a named buff like this that can be obtained from other sources in the game.

@BlueRaven