What do you hope to see next week with racial changes?

Jaimeh

zaria wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

well someone has to say it....PVE (endgame raids) racial diversity for DD's is gutted with those Patches.
Those are estimated BIS setups, some things are already proven (orc > khajit for sNB for example)

Now on Live we see mostly:
stam DD -> Redguard
Mag DD -> Dunmer, altmer
Healers -> Altmer, Bretons, Argonians
Tanks -> Argonians, Imperials

With PTS 4.3.3 I would reduce those down to:
stam DD -> Orc
Mag DD -> Breton
Healers -> Breton, (maybe Argonians)
Tanks -> Nords, Imperial and Argonian


overall we went from 6 Different Races down to 5
3 of those 5 Races are likely to end up as Tanks.
the Main diversity loss is towards Mag DD and healers, while Tanks got a new viable race with Nords now.
For stam DD's in BIS setups, they just gona roll an Orc and use Lavafood, to make up the sustainloss from moving aways from Redguard.

Here's my Idea, which Passives were good / as balanced as possible by Patches:

4.3.0 Orc, Redguard, Altmer, Nord
4.3.2 Khajit, Breton, Argonian
4.3.3 Imperial, Bosmer

Dunmer got pushed into Hybrid, which IMO is a bad decision, buit jeah why not, let it be a Hybrid for PVP...PVE its prob useless, unless you switch between stam and mag alot, letting you save money for Tokens.

Dunmer is Altmer with 125 less magic. They are also orcs with 125 less stamina but with magic rather than the Orc health benefits.

Why pick Dunmer anymore for PvE... they are subpar (except their dashing good looks, those they will always have xD)

Mudcrabber

I think Argonians still need a slight buff. I don't need it to be stronger than anything, just not the worst anymore. Maybe if it were only tied for worst.

I don't have a strong opinion on the others. This week's Khajiit nerf changes my plans a little but we could all see it coming.

Outside of races, I think Shadow is slightly too strong now.

Finedaible

Patch 4.3.0:
A promising start to the PTS. Everyone was happy.

Patch 4.3.3:
Everyone who plays Redguard or Imperial are happy. Redguards got buffed hard because ZoS continues to push them to be op for whatever reason. Imperial got buffed because ZoS realized they are behind a paywall. Orc is Orc, they kinda remained the same i guess.

Anyone playing the other races are understandably unhappy. Khajiit, Altmer, Bosmer - the entire Aldmeri Dominon - lost their identities and will be forced to change PvP and PvE builds. Dunmer doesn't know what they are anymore. Nord continues being a tank.

Argonian got its problematic potion passive buffed, again, for no apparent reason...

MLGProPlayer

Finedaible wrote: »

Patch 4.3.0:
A promising start to the PTS. Everyone was happy.

Patch 4.3.3:
Everyone who plays Redguard or Imperial are happy. Redguards got buffed hard because ZoS continues to push them to be op for whatever reason. Imperial got buffed because ZoS realized they are behind a paywall. Orc is Orc, they kinda remained the same i guess.

Anyone playing the other races are understandably unhappy. Khajiit, Altmer, Bosmer - the entire Aldmeri Dominon - lost their identities and will be forced to change PvP and PvE builds. Dunmer doesn't know what they are anymore. Nord continues being a tank.

Argonian got its problematic potion passive buffed, again, for no apparent reason...

Each patch adds a chorus of angry voices. It started out with Dunmer, Imperial, and Bosmer being unhappy. Instead of just uplifting those 3 races, ZOS went ahead and ruined a bunch of other ones.

Seraphayel

Finedaible wrote: »

Anyone playing the other races are understandably unhappy. Khajiit, Altmer, Bosmer - the entire Aldmeri Dominon - lost their identities and will be forced to change PvP and PvE builds.

Why should Altmer, Khajiit or Bosmer change to other races? Okay, Bosmer because of Stealth and if it was the purpose of the character to be stealthy I get it. But Altmer and Khajiit? Neither of them lost their identities.

At the moment my two mains are a Khajiit Sorc and an Altmer Dragon Knight and I am very pleased by the changes.

Cundu_Ertur

Finedaible wrote: »

Patch 4.3.0:
A promising start to the PTS. Everyone was happy.

Bosmeri have been angry the whole time; but admittedly the anger has grown with each update to the patch since our concerns were completely disregarded. I think at this point we are at the 'Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath' stage at this point.

Finedaible

Seraphayel wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Anyone playing the other races are understandably unhappy. Khajiit, Altmer, Bosmer - the entire Aldmeri Dominon - lost their identities and will be forced to change PvP and PvE builds.

Why should Altmer, Khajiit or Bosmer change to other races? Okay, Bosmer because of Stealth and if it was the purpose of the character to be stealthy I get it. But Altmer and Khajiit? Neither of them lost their identities.

At the moment my two mains are a Khajiit Sorc and an Altmer Dragon Knight and I am very pleased by the changes.

I never said anything about them changing races. I said they'd have to change BUILDS (in other words, gear, sets, cp, etc.). Altmer lost their magicka regen, Khajiit lost their critical chance, and Bosmer lost everything for... wait for it.. roll-dodge. I'd certainly say they each lost their unique identities.

Cundu_Ertur

The lorebooks are chock full of stories about how Bosmer would roll-dodge all the time. It's the most lore-friendly change in the history of ever. [/sarc]

Seraphayel

Finedaible wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Anyone playing the other races are understandably unhappy. Khajiit, Altmer, Bosmer - the entire Aldmeri Dominon - lost their identities and will be forced to change PvP and PvE builds.

Why should Altmer, Khajiit or Bosmer change to other races? Okay, Bosmer because of Stealth and if it was the purpose of the character to be stealthy I get it. But Altmer and Khajiit? Neither of them lost their identities.

At the moment my two mains are a Khajiit Sorc and an Altmer Dragon Knight and I am very pleased by the changes.

I never said anything about them changing races. I said they'd have to change BUILDS (in other words, gear, sets, cp, etc.). Altmer lost their magicka regen, Khajiit lost their critical chance, and Bosmer lost everything for... wait for it.. roll-dodge. I'd certainly say they each lost their unique identities.

Yeah except they didn't. Bosmer yes because you can argue that Stealth was a crucial part of their race. Altmer and Khajiit lost basically nothing when it comes to their identities. Altmer are still an excellent Magicka race while Khajiit are still an excellent Stamina race, excellent Stealthers and on top of that now great for Magicka as well.

Magicka sustain or additional crit chance were for sure not the "identities" of Altmer or Khajiit.

BlueRaven

What do I want to see? A new team doing the racial balancing. The current team has failed pretty hard.

Edziu

BlueRaven wrote: »

What do I want to see? A new team doing the racial balancing. The current team has failed pretty hard.

was not bad start with not bad fixes in time....but in last fix they failed very hard

Grymmoire

zyk wrote: »

ZOS is hopeless. They made a huge mess out of this. It will leave a significant number of customers unhappy and will offer few practical benefits away from giving theorycrafters new numbers to crunch.

Unfortunately, someone will get promoted and there will be bonuses all around because of the revenue race change tokens will drive.

Well, they will not be seeing any $$$ from me for race\name tokens unless they also either add an alliance change or a separate way to change alliances.

I made many avatars in before the AAAF was released, then bought that package so i could make avatars with my preferred race in the alliance my Guild and friends were now in.

I have spent way too much time remaking (7 of 15) avatars and grinding back to level 50 and waiting 20 hours times 60 times 3 skill lines to level up mounts; retrieve all mage books; gain skyshards; level skills etc., etc;.it is just too mind-numbing to consider doing it further.

Race\name tokens will do me and many no good if used on avatars that just remain in their original alliances unused.

Time for an alliance token or allowance after this roll-out, for a one-time alliance change per toon.

EDIT: Forgot to include a thread pertinent statement. Argonians pigeon-holed as healers or tanks annoys the living bejeezus out of me. They need some offensive related passives too.

And removing their poison resistance keeping disease is a sheer outright travesty, ignoring their habitats and lore. Disease hardly exists in PvE and only a few sets and one glyph (does anyone even use it?) allows disease, so how prevalent is it in PvP, especially compared to the use of poison which every other player and their dog seems to spray around?

Seraphayel

I hope we'll get the final build next week and the patch goes live sooner than later. I want my new Khajiit racials - now.

CP5

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Honestly saying, i don't wait anything anymore.

Imperial change is good of course, after this consecutive buffs imperials look solid as PVE tanks and opens a gate to a lot of non-standard builds around lava foot soup.

Bosmer is now put in same place where he was before - niche pvp race. It's all be tolerable if they replaced totally useless stealth detection with something like "decreased time to go to stealth" etc.. also penetration is probably WORST stat choice for temporary buff. Provide either protection or weapon damage buff after roll-dodge.
For bosmer it just looks like devs have this useless "set bonuses" like detection and they don't know where to place them and then decide to put them all on bosmer.

Khajiit change is really bad. From math done by t3hasiangod and susmidts we see that there will be barely noticeable dps impact, but from uniqueness of the race - it is lost completely with this change, khajiit becomes jack-of-all-trades but master of nothing, similar to dunmer.

That last part about the khajiit really irks me as well. Crit chance allowed for more interesting builds and gave the chance for different kinds of builds to work as well. Could have even seen hybrids become a thing with both weapon and spell crit as a bonus. This change is only logical if they are doing it to make the shadow stone less powerful, because like you said the damage numbers are barely noticeable. Wish they would just revert that change and the shadow stone change, perhaps reduce the spell crit if people feel its too strong.

Ratzkifal

• Altmer - Seems good to me, but I'd prefer something to make them stand out more. Their boni look very generic and static. The damage reduction on channeled/cast time abilities is a good start, but doesn't account for much. A weakness to magic for additional damage would be interesting, lore friendly - but most of all - very bold and unique. (Altmer tanks won't need to skill into it and don't get effected). Also they fail to deliver the recovery aspect of spells for days, the way they did in all previous Elder Scrolls games. But ZOS sees their identity in superior damage, which is fine but slightly disappointing.
• Argonian - They seem alright to me. They needed to be nerfed but they still seem like a good choice. Too bad that they are the only race that needs to spend gold (for potions) to make use of their passive. Argonians are also a sneaky race and could use a sneak bonus for flavor.
• Bosmer - Please give them back the sneaking bonus! Nobody cares about stealth detection anyway. Cops-and-robbers with Khajiit doesn't work either since they are on the same faction (by default). I liked the 20% movement speed more than the penetration, because it rewards dodgerolls in both pvp and pve while giving them something unique. Now the penetration only seems to matter in pvp, because in pve you'll never use dodgeroll proactively to get more damage as you sacrifice too much stamina. Otherwise their niche seems a little too similar to Redguard, which is not the end of the world (as with Dunmer and Altmer).
• Breton - Love the changes. Looking forward to play my Breton healer after this.
• Dunmer - Looking good. Allows Dunmer to shine on more than just magDK. It could use some more unique flavor (similar to Altmer) but doesn't need it as badly thanks to their dual nature
• Imperial - Love that new reduction! That Imperials are not as sturdy as Orcs or Nords by default is very lore consistent but their versatility allows them to keep up. Great change! Can't wait to see how it plays on my tank.
• Khajiit - Great changes (4.3.2). Recovery might be a bit too much in relation to Altmer. I heard their damage in 4.3.3 is very low, so I'd be in favor of upping that again if that's correct.
• Nord - Very interesting, very unique. I haven't done any number crunching but being the only race that gains more ultimate allows for more kinds of playstyle. I would love an emphasis on this unique flavor that allows for Nords to become a viable choice in more than just one area (including magicka builds).
• Orc - 2000 stam, 258 weapon damage, 1000 max health, 600 health on weapon attacks every 4 seconds, 12% sprint cost reduction, +10% movements speed. I feel like they have one or two effects too many. Replace the 600 health and sprint stuff with something else. Personally instead of additional movement speed, i would like to see reduced slow effectiveness and breakfree cost to emphasize the momentum aspect without making them faster than the supposedly nimble and light races of Tamriel.
• Redguard - Looks to me the same as before but that's alright, because the sustain and weapon mastery works well on them thematically and mechanically.

Overall I think that in a perfect world every race should enable a playstyle that no other race can pull of quite like that. Especially the way Nord, Imperial, Argonian and Orc bring something unique to the tank roll each is something I would like to see done for the other rolls and other races as well. Among the DDs, high sustainability, high spell/weapon damage and high crits are a good start but in praxis they are mostly the same (especially sustainability and spell/weapon damage as you spec into what you are lacking).

Silver_Strider

Mostly everything that happened in 4.3.2 and beyond to be reverted, with some exceptions and amendments .

Altmer
Spell Recharge: Restore 600 Magic or Stamina, depending on which is higher, when casting a class ability. 6 second CD. Reduce damage taken when casting/channeling by 5%.

Argonian
Resourceful: Increase Max Magic by 1500. Restore 3600 Health, Magic and Stamina when you drink a potion
Life Mender: Increase Healing Received/Done by 2%

Bosmer
Hunter's Eye: Grant 1500 Physical Penetration to Bow abilities. Increase movement speed while in stealth by 15%

Dunmer
Dynamic: Increase Max Magic/Stamina by 1500
Resist Flame: 2310 Fire Resistance/Immunity to burn. Increase damage done to enemies afflicted with a status effect by 3%

Imperial
Toughness: Increase Max Health by 1500
Conditioning: Increase Max Magic/Stamina by 1250
Red Diamond: Current effect as of 4.3.3

Orc
Brawny: Increase Max Health by 1250 and Max Stamina by 500
Unflinching: Increase Healing Received by 4%. Restore 350 Health and Stamina upon using a weapon ability. 4 second CD.

This was legit all that really needed to happen after 4.3.0 for the races to have been better balanced.

• Orc would have lost some sustain to not be so completely dominate as a DPS but have gained a ton of health.
• Imperial would be the perfect jack of all trades. It would have lost some health and stamina but had magic opened up entirely for them
• Bosmer would have gotten to keep some of its stealth aspects while receiving a meaningful, lore-friendly DPS buff
• Altmer gets a small sustain boost to keep up with Breton and Khajiit.
• Argonian get a small DPS boost that also serves the function of increasing their healing output for Healers while Tanks aren't completely screwed out from the removal of Healing Received.
• Dunmer gets a unique damage buff that would help it be both unique from Altmer but also keep it on equal ground with the other Magic DPS races, while not largely overshadowing other races on the Stamina side of the spectrum.

At this point, every step forward has been another 2 steps further away from being nearly balanced as Racial passives would have been as far as I'm concerned.

Note: Passives not listed are unchanged. I only listed the changes that I felt were necessary.