Essay: Being DC character in post-BaseGame feels bad [SPOILERS]

TiaFrye

The game devs pay close attention to what you liked and what you didn’t. Recurring characters like Razum-dar and Naryu Virian don’t come back because the game devs think they should, they recur because YOU told the game devs that your experiences with those characters were significant and memorable.

So, yeah, ZOS. Let me tell you something, and maybe - just maybe - you'll finally listen.
Being Daggerfall Covenant player character after completing the Base Game is... underwhelming to say the least. It simply feels bad. Right now DC in underrepresented IN CHARACTERS almost in all DLCs and Chapters so far (from the point of DC player) to the point that some players might feel left alone.

ATTENTION: that it isn't about PVP. It's about story. I ask you to don't jump into the conclusions - if certain alliance is under-preforming in PVP (in reality or popular opinion, doesn't matter) it doesn't mean no one needs this alliance in the game altogether. It's also not about amount of DC zones added in the game.
And please note that English isn't my native language. Thank you.

Full Essay under the cut VVV

Summary

• Fine start: recognition of the Vestige in Alliances' story lines (+ Coldharbour stats)
• Recurring characters of DC and what's wrong with them
• Mascot characters and 4 years of waiting
• Season of the Dragon hopes so far

Recognition of the Vestige in Alliances' story lines
As an original EP player on the start, I've switched to DC after visiting Coldharbour back when you couldn't play the other Alliance's story line at the same time as your own. And after switching I've played through pre-Coldharbour zones once more. My experience was very different. And way better.
There was more detailed explanation from me in other topic, but the point is - (subjectively) DC was the best story to experience if you care for 1) having familiar faces close to you constantly: 2) being the Vestige.
Brief comparison of important moments (i.e not quick dialogue mention) when the game recognizes you as the Soulless One:

• EP - none
• AD - when you're joining the Veiled Heritance (you have no soul to swear on)
• DC - entering the spirit realm at Bethnik (which is not possible to do so and survive with a soul); Bangkorai storyline finale and Septima Tharn

AD is alliance I've played least, but being original EP I honestly can't remember if our lack of a soul was important at least once here. So, after being rather enjoyable and close to the main plot with enemies to fight such as necromancers, vampires, undead and undead werewolves (and I've got the impression that lots of people love those) as DC player I was greet by a lot of familiar faces before the final battle in Coldharbour. Coldharbour is actually a tricky part in terms of familiar faces.

• AD - 2 characters, 1 appeared before Coldharbour more than once + High Kinlady Estre
• EP - 9 characters, 2 appeared more than once + Thallik Wormfather
• DC - 7 characters, 4 appeared more than once + Angof the Gravesinger

Before I sat to write this I honestly thought that DC is superior in terms of characters that was re-introduced to you in Coldharbour, but turns out my first Alliance actually was higher in numbers. So, why I switched to DC despite that? Because I was actually able to make a list of DC characters in Coldharbour without consulting to UESP wiki. I actually remember them.
I've noted the returning villains out of the list because it turns out, that my first alliance was lacking in this part as well. I've enjoyed hunting Estre in Auridon, but she's not the person I would share a table with, ever. Thallik was sooooo forgettable, even tho he's the Rift's villain, the last zone before the finale. And here's Angof, who's character development was shockingly good. The storytelling was actually able to convince me to ally with my former enemy without me feeling forced to do so.
To line this all up - I've tried all of three alliances, but stayed in DC for story, characters and my own immersion. And now... I'm being punished for that.

Recurring characters of DC and what's wrong with them
I'll touch on this topic briefly, but it's none less important and solving this problem will make things way better in my opinion. So... Characters form DC that the devs chose to bring back constantly are not likeable. Funny, but not likeable. And mostly has no relevant things to do while returning.
I'm talking of course about Lady Laurent here. And a bit about Neramo.
After another meeting with this duo in Murkmire, I'm not sure I can take Lady Laurent and Stibbons anymore. Granted, their quests post-BaseGame much resembles their base game quests. A little research, that doesn't affect main plot, with Stibbons being constantly abused in the process. They're actually the only characters from "Researchers" compound in Coldharbour that were re-introduced in almost every zone in base DC excluding Stromhaven. I like Stibbons, he's a simpleton and I pity him. After all these encounters I've started to have my doubts if I want to take another quest and possibly hurt Stibbons even more thanks to his mistress. Not a very good experience.
Neramo is... fine. Mostly. He was kind of a big part in CWC, but I've enjoyed my interactions with Vanos siblings here more than with him. I'm not against his character, even being called 'favorite tool' is not exactly what you want to hear towards your hero not from a Daedric Prince. Neramo also acts as comic relief and "oopsie guy" most of the times he re-appears.
There is also Crafty Lerissa, appearing once with a good enough quest (light-headed but relevant) at the Gold Coast, but it was one time only and I can't remember seeing any more DC characters return aside from ones I'll touch on next.
In comparison - AD character Andewen, Telenger's pupil, has an awesome quest in Summerset that is tied to main story wonderfully. She was not seen since the base game, and it was an awesome return. EP suffering the same problem as DC with comic relief character Rigurt, but unlike Lady Laurent he's the most likeable of comic relief characters in the game so far. EP also has Vanos siblings as I've mentioned above, their returns are always interesting.
And beneath these humorous characters that starting to get on my nerve, we have Darien Gautier's rescuing party. Which is our character seems not give a damn about.
I mean, honestly? After Orsinium, where I was constantly reminded by Alinon the Alchemist, by Skordo the Knife how awesome Darien was and how we miss him terribly, after giving me his note with plea for help for Mara's sake, you didn't even bothered to add a little quest to Gabrielle Benele to ACTUALLY HELP her in her quest to find out mutual friend or her friend, of you're not into Darien. And after that, after 4 years of doing nothing, you put in protagonist's mouth "I've been looking for you for a long time, Darien". NO YOU'RE NOT. Because I was not given an option to do so.
And after that was established, I can finally jump on the biggest problem so far.

Mascot characters and 4 years of waiting
Naryu Virian and Razum-Dar are awesome. They are mascots of EP and AD, fan favorites, representing their alliances in promo materials. They're constantly mentioned by devs as such. And I wonder will you asked yourself where is DC mascot. Well, we have one. The one you, ZOS, just love to kill off all the time.
Don't get me wrong, even as DC player I was annoyed by the fact that it took 4 damn years to developers to bring Darien Gautier back, I love the storyline that was written for him. But approach chosen by the devs in the last moment instantly killed off most of DC representation after the Base Game.

Jeremy Sera, Lead Content Designer for ESO, revealed on 10th May 2016 that it wasn't until the very end of Coldharbour development that they decided Darien should disappear during The Final Assault.

Before you argue with me on the point that Darien is not DC's mascot, I will note that he fits mascot profile that he shares with Naryu and Razum-Dar - a likeable sassy character who's reappearing during protagonist's path to the grand finale, helping him, being potential semi-romance interest (aside from Raz, but he has his Queen, we understand). Darien actually over-preformed in his mascot carrier, appearing in 3 of 5 alliance main zones and he's the only one of your mascot-friends who's accompany you into Coldharbour. And he paid for this in full, much as myself after choosing DC as my main story.
Lack of hype, that Darien suffered in these 4 years affected his mascot performance terribly, when even non-EP/AD player knows who's Naryu and Raz are. While that dude who likes to eat bread and flirt with everything that moves remains for a lot of players, especially new ones, a mystery.
But Naryu's and Raz's friendship with DC protagonist is questionable at best. From the standpoint of a DC protagonist, they are employed spies for their alliance (while Darien, for example, was neutral through all the DC story and ended up in neutral party, Fighters Guild). Raz will always chose his queen and his job (he refused to come with you to the Crystal tower, because he had a job for a crown to do - saving people of Summerset), while Naryu possibly lied to you about Veya, who's responsible at least for two deaths in Summerset and indirectly caused Darien's second return into Colored Rooms, not to mention Naryu lashing out on you on the Gold Coast in case you've made a mistake while saving Sweetroll killer victims or/and choosing Raz's side at the end.
So, while I like these characters, I can't relate to them in full as a DC player and can't be hyped like players of their alliances to see them again. And our own mascot is always a big spoiler and devs can't talk about his as much.

Season of the Dragon hopes so far (and wrap up)
Thus far Season of the Dragon made me cautiously exited. DC cimematic trailers' hero made a comeback, Meridia related content gives me a hope to see our unfortunate mascot once again at least before the year expires, but i'm still underwhelmed by everything I've written above.
I want to believe that you, ZOS, have not forgotten us, DC players, who was in love with base game story and characters. Who's now only can to observe while other factions constantly get something good and gain nothing before Summerset story hit the fan. And after that being stripped off once again.
Please, please, please, go in the right direction with DC characters, us and NPCs. At last. Please.

SHORT version: I want ZOS to stop offering me a character (Darien) who isn't around to work as intended (as much as I love him and happy to see him for whatever reason, so please don't stop bringing him back but not in that role, he has his own now) for a faction mascot and filled the hole they've created themselves by this character last-moment-add storyline with other cool DC characters they've had before in the base game. And pls stop make Stibbons suffer.

idk

Wow, far to long. I am hoping at some point clarity of thought enters that long wall or text. Honest feedback., If there is a point you are trying to make I suggest you get to it much faster and with more clarity.

I am assuming that the point is not to complain about a story line that is 5 years old but since you have made a big deal about it that is what Zos is going to see and will just stop reading because they will not be rewriting the base game stories. Anyhow, that is what seemed to be the case until the point I stopped reading.

TiaFrye

idk wrote: »

Wow, far to long. I am hoping at some point clarity of thought enters that long wall or text. Honest feedback., If there is a point you are trying to make I suggest you get to it much faster and with more clarity.

I am assuming that the point is not to complain about a story line that is 5 years old but since you have made a big deal about it that is what Zos is going to see and will just stop reading because they will not be rewriting the base game stories. Anyhow, that is what seemed to be the case until the point I stopped reading.

Point was that when comparing Base Game to it's aftermath, right now DC in underrepresented in all DLCs and Chapters so far in terms of interactions (from the point of DC player) to the point that some players might feel left alone. Added this part to the top of the post. Why is that I've clarified with wall of text.

hakan

i thought DC equavelent of naryu and raz was Jakaar lol.

Do all three alliences need same character as Darien though? No, imo. i like naryu and raz the way they are.

TiaFrye

hakan wrote: »

i thought DC equavelent of naryu and raz was Jakaar lol.

Do all three alliences need same character as Darien though? No, imo. i like naryu and raz the way they are.

Jackarn haven't interacted with PC as much and was only mentioned by Lerissa after the base game, while Raz, Darien and Naryu play a big part in events.

Point is not with Darien specifically but with how DC right now represented (in characters) with abusive relationship non-couple, all in himself dwemer researcher and dude, that isn't here most of the times. While other alliances have a plenty to consume.

Ragnork

I am bitterly disappointed that the Glorious Expedition for Nord Cultural Exchange has made so little impact in the game players world.
Rigurt the Brash will need to be recalled post haste to explain his failings; his wife, Rulfala whom he met in Wrothgar will be most interesting to discuss his dalliance in Summerset with Proxy Queen Alwinarwe

Sotha_Sil

You are quick to forget that DC players got 2 expansions at the start of the game : Craglorn (North&South), Orsinium and Hew's bane making it a total of 8 zones in the DC area (the 3 mentioned before and the 5 from the base game).

EP got 8 zones only last year : 5 zones from base game + Morrowind + Clockwork city + Murkmire

AD still has only 6 zones : 5 zones from base game + Summerset/Artaeum and will probably get the two zones missing this year with Elsweyr.

So right now we have DC : 8/ EP: 8 and AD:6 (and potentially 8 this year).

Even though DC characters did not get new zones, their characters made appearances in other zones.

There is a good chance that next year content will be in hammerfell as it will be DC time again and you will get some Darien stuff.

TiaFrye

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

You are quick to forget that DC players got 2 expansions at the start of the game : Craglorn (North&South), Orsinium and Hew's bane making it a total of 8 zones in the DC area (the 3 mentioned before and the 5 from the base game).

EP got 8 zones only last year : 5 zones from base game + Morrowind + Clockwork city + Murkmire

AD still has only 6 zones : 5 zones from base game + Summerset/Artaeum and will probably get the two zones missing this year with Elsweyr.

So right now we have DC : 8/ EP: 8 and AD:6 (and potentially 8 this year).

There is a good chance that next year content will be in hammerfell as it will be DC time again.

As I've written at the top of the post:

It's also not about amount of DC zones added in the game.

I'm fine with zones we have. I'm not fine with what we get in interaction with recurring characters compared to others since Orsinium.

ESO_Nightingale

i mean, you guys have most of the map filled anyway. elsweyr needed representation because they had half a zone and an island.... like... lol. then it's likely back to EP which has most of its land just empty.

i think that DC was over-represented at the start of the game's life

it got Craglorn, Hew's Bane, Wrothgar. and Cyrodiil received another zone. Then it starts to move to ebonheart territory. just wait another year or 2. i think they will do Skyrim next because people want The Reach, and then we may see Hegathe or Rihad or something. i'm not going to argue about the story because they seem like valid points. but we should fill up the north, east and south first before we venture back to the west.

TiaFrye

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

i mean, you guys have most of the map filled anyway. elsweyr needed representation because they had half a zone and an island.... like... lol. then it's likely back to EP which has most of its land just empty.

i think that DC was over-represented at the start of the game's life

it got Craglorn, Hew's Bane, Wrothgar. and Cyrodiil received another zone. Then it starts to move to ebonheart territory. just wait another year or 2. i think they will do Skyrim next because people want The Reach, and then we may see Hegathe or Rihad or something. i'm not going to argue about the story because they seem like valid points. but we should fill up the north, east and south first before we venture back to the west.

I was talking about not being interested in zones but in interactions with LIKEABLE characters and yet you still talking zones? Really?
I get it, the main post is big, but when I was just talking about the same thing with the other person and you insists on me wanting zones, it's irritating.

ArchMikem

You guys get everyone's hunk'a hunk'a burnin Meridia's tool, Darien. Also Skordo, and whats her face the Mage girl with Twilight Sparkle's voice.

TiaFrye

ArchMikem wrote: »

You guys get everyone's hunk'a hunk'a burnin Meridia's tool, Darien. Also Skordo, and whats her face the Mage girl with Twilight Sparkle's voice.

Who's seen 1 time after base game and that's all. Sparkle didn't even got a quest. While not-so-likeable characters are showed in my face.
Again - you clearly haven't read my post.

logarifmik

As a dedicated Daggerfall Covenant citizen I completely agree with you and I share you concern, but there are much more problems with the story in this game, then you described.

For instance, a lot of really deep and memorable characters (most of them are from the DC) are completely forgotten, but those who are empty though funny by the standarts of 5-years old are coming back. Damn, even new ones pop up. Like Jee-Lar and his bunch of daily friends, which force you to do silly things? What an annoying characters! Why I can't just force this shortarse to vomit her damn concoction by her own?! Or beat the red eyed joker-alchemist with a dreugh wax candle, she testing on me?!! They deserve at least a few swear word!.. Ahem, my point is that current approach lacks feedback and involment. Every dog NPC can do anything he wants with your character, no matter how powerful and famous he is, and you can do nothing.

Also, as I already said many times before, the story in the whole is just a set of many loosely connected stories, sometimes bad, sometimes meh, sometimes great. A brand new adventure, a fresh start each time a chapter comes up. It looks like there is no starting point and no ending point, which is bad for a narrative.

Rake

DC have mascot as well -King Emeric.

TiaFrye

Rake wrote: »

DC have mascot as well -King Emeric.

I get the joke. Then we're all doomed, because having a Hollywood actor voicing your mascot will surely rice prices in crown store.

logarifmik wrote: »

As a dedicated Daggerfall Covenant citizen I completely agree with you and I share you concern, but there are much more problems with the story in this game, then you described.

Every dog NPC can do anything he wants with your character, no matter how powerful and famous he is, and you can do nothing.

It is unfortunate yes. Besides, if in the place of these non-interesting and non-likeable characters that will pop up and vanish forever old and well known characters from all alliances having such a cameo would've improved anyone's experience in my opinion.

DeadlyRecluse

Personally, I haven't thought about any of this, and I'm not sure I care, but--

I think it's awesome that you do. And you've put together a well-structured, well-thought out argument that I enjoyed reading and think I agree with.

I wonder if "post base game faction balance in the story" is something even considered by ZOS's team, or if it's just not really on the radar post-One Tamriel?

Another curveball is that one of the best DLCs in terms of story still is Orsinium--while not exactly "DC," it's DC-adjacent in theme. On the other hand, the Chapters have been EP (Morrowind) AD (Summerset) and AD (Elsewyr)...

lokulin

logarifmik wrote: »

As a dedicated Daggerfall Covenant citizen I completely agree with you and I share you concern, but there are much more problems with the story in this game, then you described.

For instance, a lot of really deep and memorable characters (most of them are from the DC) are completely forgotten, but those who are empty though funny by the standarts of 5-years old are coming back. Damn, even new ones pop up. Like Jee-Lar and his bunch of daily friends, which force you to do silly things? What an annoying characters! Why I can't just force this shortarse to vomit her damn concoction by her own?! Or beat the red eyed joker-alchemist with a dreugh wax candle, she testing on me?!! They deserve at least a few swear word!.. Ahem, my point is that current approach lacks feedback and involment. Every dog NPC can do anything he wants with your character, no matter how powerful and famous he is, and you can do nothing.

Also, as I already said many times before, the story in the whole is just a set of many loosely connected stories, sometimes bad, sometimes meh, sometimes great. A brand new adventure, a fresh start each time a chapter comes up. It looks like there is no starting point and no ending point, which is bad for a narrative.

Yep, every time that alchemist laughed at the dreugh wax candle prank I wanted to run a sword through her! I'm glad they have made the next prologue daily quests only 30 not 150.

TiaFrye

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Personally, I haven't thought about any of this, and I'm not sure I care, but--

I think it's awesome that you do. And you've put together a well-structured, well-thought out argument that I enjoyed reading and think I agree with.

I wonder if "post base game faction balance in the story" is something even considered by ZOS's team, or if it's just not really on the radar post-One Tamriel?

Another curveball is that one of the best DLCs in terms of story still is Orsinium--while not exactly "DC," it's DC-adjacent in theme. On the other hand, the Chapters have been EP (Morrowind) AD (Summerset) and AD (Elsewyr)...

Thank you! ;; I'm more than okay actually exploring the map of Tamriel by visiting places that was never shown in series before, like Summerset and Elsweyr, rather than stuck to opening it in parts by 3 years spawn with each year representing one alliance. As much as some people above trying to accuse me in wanting more DC zones which I did not said.
I also agree that Orsinium was the best (well, not in terms of AD representation in characters, which is sad considering their problem in base game, but Eveli Sharp-Arrow being bosmer and being awesome character helps a little) with interactions - loveable DC characters, loveable EP characters are presented in good numbers along with new good characters. But after Orsinium it's basically only Neramo and (may you die in suffering) Lady Laurent for us, and it's very sad.

ListerJMC

Potentially unpopular opinion: I adore Neramo, he's one of my favourite NPCs and I'm thrilled he was brought back for more content beyond the base game. However, I can definitely see why most would find him irritating . I completely agree with Lady Laurent and Stibbons though, I never really enjoy running into them (which has far more to do with Laurent than Stibbons) and hope to see other DC characters make a comeback. There are plenty of great ones to choose from!

TiaFrye

ListerJMC wrote: »

Potentially unpopular opinion: I adore Neramo, he's one of my favourite NPCs and I'm thrilled he was brought back for more content beyond the base game. However, I can definitely see why most would find him irritating . I completely agree with Lady Laurent and Stibbons though, I never really enjoy running into them (which has far more to do with Laurent than Stibbons) and hope to see other DC characters make a comeback. There are plenty of great ones to choose from!

Neramo was my fav from the heist trio back in Stros M'Kai questline! And I've enjoyed seeing him in base game and after that, but his character development is lacking lately. The way he treated Vanos siblings was very unlike him before CWC.

Sevalaricgirl

idk wrote: »

Wow, far to long. I am hoping at some point clarity of thought enters that long wall or text. Honest feedback., If there is a point you are trying to make I suggest you get to it much faster and with more clarity.

I am assuming that the point is not to complain about a story line that is 5 years old but since you have made a big deal about it that is what Zos is going to see and will just stop reading because they will not be rewriting the base game stories. Anyhow, that is what seemed to be the case until the point I stopped reading.

Let me guess AD or EP characters all. I agree with the OP in every point. DC is under represented, Raz is not all that and I don't like Naryu.

Number_51

No mention at all of Bumnog? I always thought of Bumnog as DC's Rigurt, but he's only featured in two quests and makes a brief, cameo appearance in Orsinium.

ArchMikem

TiaFrye wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

You guys get everyone's hunk'a hunk'a burnin Meridia's tool, Darien. Also Skordo, and whats her face the Mage girl with Twilight Sparkle's voice.

Who's seen 1 time after base game and that's all. Sparkle didn't even got a quest. While not-so-likeable characters are showed in my face.
Again - you clearly haven't read my post.

Its just gonna be one of those things you deal with and move on. Im a Pact player but i dont associate Naryu with the Pact. In fact she isnt aligned with the Alliance, she's an Assassin, not a Pact "mascot". And the masses just love Razum for who he his, not because he's Dominion.

ListerJMC

TiaFrye wrote: »

ListerJMC wrote: »

Potentially unpopular opinion: I adore Neramo, he's one of my favourite NPCs and I'm thrilled he was brought back for more content beyond the base game. However, I can definitely see why most would find him irritating . I completely agree with Lady Laurent and Stibbons though, I never really enjoy running into them (which has far more to do with Laurent than Stibbons) and hope to see other DC characters make a comeback. There are plenty of great ones to choose from!

Neramo was my fav from the heist trio back in Stros M'Kai questline! And I've enjoyed seeing him in base game and after that, but his character development is lacking lately. The way he treated Vanos siblings was very unlike him before CWC.

I didn't think it was too unlike him, he's demonstrated in the past that he can be extremely competitive and his track record with his care towards assistants isn't particularly impressive. I saw it as him seeing Raynor as a threat to his goal of impressing Divayth, which lead to his overly-condescending behaviour to try and make sure Raynor wouldn't have "his" glory. I'm disappointed they didn't get along though, having them meet was something I really wanted to see and Neramo had to go and act like... that.

This isn't a thread about Neramo though so I won't keep going and derail it too much. I guess the moral is, I'm all for more character development with him as far as DC NPCs go . But lots of others as well!

Osteos

Number_51 wrote: »

No mention at all of Bumnog? I always thought of Bumnog as DC's Rigurt, but he's only featured in two quests and makes a brief, cameo appearance in Orsinium.

Or Captain Albert Marck who is associated with 3 quests in Stormhaven, takes on Lambur and the rest of the crew that didn't agree with Kaleen and takes you to Sentinel for the start of the Alik'r story line.

Overall I think DC has the best story line and the most returning characters throughout the base game and into the first few DLC. I personally don't need a Raz, that cat is all talk anyway, or Naryu, her constant threats of killing me if I betray her are tiresome. Not to mention how she goes on about the rules and codes of her guild then breaks them to save Veya which leads to the events in Summerset. I did like the progression of that story starting with the gold coast though. I agree I do not feel aligned to them at all as a DC character and I would like to see a similar level of progression with some DC characters.

I agree that there should have been some dialog with Gabrielle after Summerset. I would like to see her come back and Skordo the Knife.

Luigi_Vampa

TiaFrye wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Personally, I haven't thought about any of this, and I'm not sure I care, but--

I think it's awesome that you do. And you've put together a well-structured, well-thought out argument that I enjoyed reading and think I agree with.

I wonder if "post base game faction balance in the story" is something even considered by ZOS's team, or if it's just not really on the radar post-One Tamriel?

Another curveball is that one of the best DLCs in terms of story still is Orsinium--while not exactly "DC," it's DC-adjacent in theme. On the other hand, the Chapters have been EP (Morrowind) AD (Summerset) and AD (Elsewyr)...

Thank you! ;; I'm more than okay actually exploring the map of Tamriel by visiting places that was never shown in series before, like Summerset and Elsweyr, rather than stuck to opening it in parts by 3 years spawn with each year representing one alliance. As much as some people above trying to accuse me in wanting more DC zones which I did not said.
I also agree that Orsinium was the best (well, not in terms of AD representation in characters, which is sad considering their problem in base game, but Eveli Sharp-Arrow being bosmer and being awesome character helps a little) with interactions - loveable DC characters, loveable EP characters are presented in good numbers along with new good characters. But after Orsinium it's basically only Neramo and (may you die in suffering) Lady Laurent for us, and it's very sad.

This brings up another point. DLC characters need to show up again. I want to see Eveli again. Some of the DLCs have great characters and since they are dlc characters we never see them again. It's a shame. I also agree with you on your main point. DC needs more of their good characters to show up in dlc. Skordo, Gabrielle etc... My favorite thing is running into characters that I liked and worked with in past content.

Raammzzaa

TiaFrye wrote: »

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

You are quick to forget that DC players got 2 expansions at the start of the game : Craglorn (North&South), Orsinium and Hew's bane making it a total of 8 zones in the DC area (the 3 mentioned before and the 5 from the base game).

EP got 8 zones only last year : 5 zones from base game + Morrowind + Clockwork city + Murkmire

AD still has only 6 zones : 5 zones from base game + Summerset/Artaeum and will probably get the two zones missing this year with Elsweyr.

So right now we have DC : 8/ EP: 8 and AD:6 (and potentially 8 this year).

There is a good chance that next year content will be in hammerfell as it will be DC time again.

As I've written at the top of the post:

It's also not about amount of DC zones added in the game.

I'm fine with zones we have. I'm not fine with what we get in interaction with recurring characters compared to others since Orsinium.

So all you’re saying is that you personally didn’t like the interactions with the recurring characters introduced in DC?

Personally, Neramo and the Vanos pair were my favorite reoccurring toons and I still love seeing them when they show up exploring in a DLC.

TiaFrye

Raammzzaa wrote: »

So all you’re saying is that you personally didn’t like the interactions with the recurring characters introduced in DC?

Personally, Neramo and the Vanos pair were my favorite reoccurring toons and I still love seeing them when they show up exploring in a DLC.

No, I'm saying that devs keep reintroducing the same characters, one pair of them being irritating for many to say the least during to lazy scenarios and Lady Laurent being... not nice, and Neramo being okay but overused considering that we have constantly reintroduced with only these characters dumping loads of interesting DC characters altogether.
Even your fav cookie gets boring after you've eaten 100 of them.

ArchMikem wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

You guys get everyone's hunk'a hunk'a burnin Meridia's tool, Darien. Also Skordo, and whats her face the Mage girl with Twilight Sparkle's voice.

Who's seen 1 time after base game and that's all. Sparkle didn't even got a quest. While not-so-likeable characters are showed in my face.
Again - you clearly haven't read my post.

Its just gonna be one of those things you deal with and move on. Im a Pact player but i dont associate Naryu with the Pact. In fact she isnt aligned with the Alliance, she's an Assassin, not a Pact "mascot". And the masses just love Razum for who he his, not because he's Dominion.

If you want it or not, Naryu was your spy-contact during Messages across Tamriel, she was working for the Pact during the base game. This fact alone, aside from her character development was not good in Morrowind chapter, can interfere DC player from bonding with her and it's not something that should be considered not normal. I love these characters, as a person, but my DC character can't do that and left alone by ZOS because there is other's alliances awesome chars coming back all the time, and ours awesome characters being forgotten or getting hurt.

Robo_Hobo

DC is my favorite alliance storyline too, I thought the finale in Bangkorai was a great way to involve the Vestige aspect of your character. It was the first and only time an antagonist actually both recognized the fact that our character can respawn, and tried (but failed?) to work around it. Hard to tell if her plan actually wouldn't have worked, or if it was just gameplay ignoring it since well, of course it can't work. :P

Ilsabet

You make a lot of very interesting points. That was a good read.

My first/main character is DC, and I appreciated how many memorable characters I met while playing through the alliance zones as well as the contribution of familiar faces to the Coldharbour storyline. Having Gabrielle, Skordo, and of course Darien along made the endgame a lot more fun having had the shared experiences up to that point and feeling like I was saving the world with my team of old friends. And of course what happened to Darien was even more significant, feeling like we were losing one of those old friends.

I have the added personal attachment of having decided that my character was in love with Darien prior to the Coldharbour finale. And subsequently writing a big journal thread where her ongoing feelings for him and regret over not being able to save him are a recurring theme. So when Ilsabet tells Darien she's been searching for him for a long time, this is after she's gone through the process of trying desperately to find a way to get to him and coming to the dreadful conclusion that there's nothing she can do. But you're right that there's nothing provided by the game to support the Vestige's wish to save a friend who has called out directly to them for help, so anything along those lines basically has to be headcanon.

This brings me to the one major thing that peeves me about Summerset. In general I loved the zone and I loved Darien's involvement in it. Even though we lost him again, I thought the Crystal Tower scene was lovely and they made his sacrifice extremely meaningful. And then just when I thought I had my closure, we get that book that tells us that a) he's still alive, which is great, and b) he's in the process of dying, which is the opposite of closure and basically puts us into the same position we were in after finding the note in Orsinium. Except that this time we know where he is, and - oh hey! We know someone who has a magic portal that can warp us into Daedric realms of Oblivion! Let's just go back to Artaeum and talk to Val and - wait what do you mean I do not meet the requirements when I stand here spamming E on the Dreaming Cave portal. YES VALSIRENN, I KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO FIND SOMEONE AFTER ALL THESE YEARS AND THEN LOSE HIM AGAIN. I had to make up some bogus but semi-plausible-sounding reason why Ilsabet couldn't go charging after her man, because ZOS decided to dangle that revelation in front of us and then give us ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WE COULD DO ABOUT IT EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE THE IN-UNIVERSE MEANS TO GO AFTER HIM.

Well that was a good vent. Anyway I agree with your assessment that ZOS could have done more with the relationships we've built up, like giving us something we can do for Darien, or hell even letting us go tell Gabrielle that she can stop throwing books around. I'm hoping that some of these loose ends will be at least addressed in future DLCs, since ZOS isn't going to be modifying old content. While we're on the subject, I also wonder if High King Emeric will ever have a reaction to us killing King Kurog, or what's going to become of that three-alliance armada that was heading toward Summerset before we saved everything without needing them. And the fact that Meridian cultists are going to be a primary antagonist in one of the upcoming Wrathstone dungeons opens the door wide open for either resolving or irritatingly ignoring the lingering Meridia baggage from Summerset, so it will be interesting to see where that does or doesn't go.

It's also unfortunate, as you mention, that Darien's mere presence in post-Coldharbour content is itself a big spoiler. So while Raz is the face of Summerset (and I feel like he was criminally underutilized in Summerset, mostly just coincidentally showing up wherever the Psijics sent you), Darien has a much more significant role in the story, but you can't even tell people he's in it without spoiling them.

With all that said, I don't entirely share your feelings about DC NPCs being underrepresented in DLCs or that they're unlikeable. If anything, I feel like being a DC main has given me more meaningful interactions with NPCs than I would have had if I'd started in a different alliance. But I will absolutely not complain if we see more fun recurring characters in future zones.

Hallothiel

Hmm not sure I agree. Darien was given the main role in Summerset - it could not have been saved without him.

And he’s not dead. Just......elsewhere?