Essay: Being DC character in post-BaseGame feels bad [SPOILERS]

Taz

I really do hope they let us march in and deal with Meridia, because I've been wanting to do tear her apart and pluck Darien out of there since Summerset's quests. As a DC main (who's been a DC main since launch, where factions WERE more significant when it came to questing and zones to be in), I find him to be a much warmer companion who feels like he genuinely cares about you; Naryu and Raz less so. I was thrilled to see him back because he had that kind of long-standing multi-questline relationship since the DC quest zones, and absolutely crushed to see him go again. So. Yeah. I feel that.

BlueViolet

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I think Raz and Naryu are such big deals in large part because their respective alliances have little else in the way of engaging NPCs. .......

The DC had more diversity of good characters.

I agree with this. I sat here after reading the OP ( which I really liked by the way ) and I tried to think of any other memorable characters in either of those factions, and I really couldn't. Apart from Shazah and Khali who I very much liked, but were only in the game for one questline.
I find the EP questline so boring and so tedious that I've only ever done it once in all these years, and not one character stood out to me.

To be honest, while I agree that DC is lacking a forefront character, I never really liked Darien. Maybe I didn't look at his persona hard enough, but he always struck me as just being some shallow romantic encounter chaser, that occasionally picked up a sword to show off. True, he seemed to care about what happened to other folks, but he kind of just left me cold.
I appreciated his sacrifice in later encounters, and I thawed toward him a little bit, but not a lot.
I do believe Kaleen made another appearance in Rivenspire, with whiny Nicolene, for a quest, but she was still rude and still bitter after my decision in Betnikh. She's one of those characters I want to punch

That said, the array of characters within the DC zones ( all of the zones ), I found to be quite memorable. I really cared about most of them in some sense. They either frustrated me to no end, I loved them, I wanted to punch them, or hug them, but they always stirred something in me, unlike most of the characters throughout the other factions ( with the exception of Raz who is my favourite )

I just love Skordo the Knife
I would love to see more returning DC characters. I really like them. Even the ones I don't like.

TiaFrye

BlueViolet wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I think Raz and Naryu are such big deals in large part because their respective alliances have little else in the way of engaging NPCs. .......

The DC had more diversity of good characters.

I agree with this. I sat here after reading the OP ( which I really liked by the way ) and I tried to think of any other memorable characters in either of those factions, and I really couldn't. Apart from Shazah and Khali who I very much liked, but were only in the game for one questline.
I find the EP questline so boring and so tedious that I've only ever done it once in all these years, and not one character stood out to me.

Thank you!
And while I still wrote this piece from the perspective of Darien's fan, because I still find that really hard to sepparate him from my vanilla DC expirience, it's said mostly because it's sad to see that only non comic relief characters before Wrathstone you meet after the base game from DC is directly tied to his story and his post-game fate. And even this, in terms of people, friends who would've search for him was handeled poorly. While in mortal danger, Alinon and Skordo asking you about Darien anyway in their quests and Gabrielle doesn't have one at all. While I'm happy to help Vanos siblings or Capitan Jamilia once again, post-base game in new sweet zones, it's sad to see Stibbons being hurt again, and again, and again while there is tons of DC characters that we never see again after the base game like Spearhead crew.
And while ZOS put some of you and mine favs one time in Orsinium still, as the person on the other page said, the encounter felt like a break up.

Valamist

For the sake of clarity I will admit, my past is the opposite of yours, in that I started as DC and completed the whole core story, and then switched over to another Alliance when I started a new main. I am very proudly a member of the AD, I just adore the story and characters there. I liked the story of all the Alliances, but the Aldmeri Dominion really shone for me. Equally, I feel I should say that out of the three 'mascots' you list, Dorian is my leats favourite by far. I mean, I like him sure, especially his part in Summerset, but I never connected with him in the same way I did with Raz and Naryu.

Anyway, with that potential bias in the open, I fear that with a cast and pool of lore this big, no single alliance or type of fan is going to be happy. They cannot, and frankly should not, be trying to balance future lore just for the sake of balance. I like to think the Devs and writers are not purposely skipping or mistreating DC characters and locations, and more they are just going with what makes sense creatively. I suspect Elsweyr was chosen for a number of reasons, most of which probably have nothing to do with the AD. I'm just sorry that in your eyes, that means the DC has come short compared to the other factions.

I kinda feel that you are equating some characters like Naryu a bit too much with the Alliance? I mean, I adore her, flirt with her whenever possible and even though I chose Raz in the Sweetroll quest I will marry her ASAP if ever the game let me, despite being a devout AD player. She has very few ties with the EP, and the faults you list about her about her are the same no matter who your character is. Kinda the same with Dorian, in that you do form a bond with him over the Coldharbour quests, even if its not as deep as the one EP characters will have, and that persists in Summerset, where he has what I will say is a more important and greater role then even Raz. I will admit, Raz is tied heavily with the AD, but even then the chains are being loosen. He is still your friend in Summerset, and I doubt his relationship with the Dominion will come up much in his Elsweyr cameo.

Finally, I do feel Raz & Naryu are only added because of their popularity with the playerbase as a whole, not just their respective dominions. Now perhaps this is my bias showing again, but I never hear Dorian talked about in the same way as those two. Dose that excuses him vanishing again? No, and I feel that is the most valid argument you make here, but I just feel that in regards to player recondition, his not up there with the other two.

In the end, I do not really share your view that playing as a DC main is as bad as you say. Sorry if this sounds patronising or uncaring. Its a testimony to the game that we feel so passionately about these characters, and I hope Season of the Dragon/future Chapters give you more DC content.

TiaFrye

I'll try to make myself clear once again because I feel like people seeing me liking one character and being rather cold with the other two fan-fav, considering only this and not the whole picture.

Valamist wrote: »

Finally, I do feel Raz & Naryu are only added because of their popularity with the playerbase as a whole, not just their respective dominions. Now perhaps this is my bias showing again, but I never hear Dorian talked about in the same way as those two. Dose that excuses him vanishing again? No, and I feel that is the most valid argument you make here, but I just feel that in regards to player recondition, his not up there with the other two.

For many, Darien (not Dorian) was killed at the end of the base game. Most people don't like to invest themselves in dead characters. If he had a chance to be on the same level before, by their actions ZOS stripped that from him. It was quite some time before Orsinium hit the fan and anyone who wanted some clarification on that got the letter. Yet ZOS continuing to put him in the position of Alliance mascot, because he was positioned as the one before, and tie like 80% of returning DC characters to him. While not having him around for abv reasons. And before you'll argue with me on that - they gave him Daggerfall Covanent shield in Summerset. You know what it refers to.

You may like him, you may not. We're all different. I like both Raz and Naryu, I've wanted to marry her too while I was in EP, but people change. And I didn't really like the change of her on Vvardenfell. And that's okay, much like okay is liking her further for anyone else. What I've summarized under Darien's topic, I wrote from a collective perspective of my DC friends who liked the character, not just myself. Some of them are very cold to Raz and Naryu, some don't. It's okay too.

If they - ZOS - want mascots for everyone so badly, they need someone to fill this breach, created by removing Darien from the realm, with characters or character that would act in the same way like Naryu and Raz acts for their respective Alliance.

Valamist wrote: »

I kinda feel that you are equating some characters like Naryu a bit too much with the Alliance?

Most people will tie the character to the Alliance in which they've met them, but I know a lot of folks who's crazy loyal to their faction not only in PVP. And for these people Naryu and Raz are spies, former of acting, for their Alliance.

Yet right now situation is dire - you'll see a lot of different returning characters from other's Alliance storylines, but not DC. DC has same two comic reliefs one of which deadly close to crossing the line, while the other one-time-seen in DLCs familiar faces are crying over Darien and yet doing close to nothing about it. While Darien himself is man-spoiler and until his story arc with Meridia is complete will be on hold maybe for another year or two.

That is said, again. I want more DC characters (not only Darien, or not only a mascot-type one! everyone!), like now we have Tharayya in Wrathstone, like one time we've had Crafty Lerissa on the Gold Coast. Not same "make Stibbons suffer" again and again, and I'm not alone in this.
I, myself, don't have Alliance allegiance. My character is more a part of the 2nd Five Companions as any faction in the game, because they were my first faction, they saved me from a prison and helped me to defeat Molag Bal, and I don't care about PVP. I've chosen DC for story and characters, yet now it's laking in this badly for whatever reason. And after overwhelming experience in the base game I sit here and wonder what went the heel wrong. What's wrong is that we don't really see these characters we loved back than anymore, while AD and EP have their fair share of those.

TiaFrye

Ugh, I really need to summarize this in short in case people won't get my point from the wall of text. Or won't read it.

I want ZOS to stop offering me a character who isn't around to work as intended (as much as I love him and happy to see him for whatever reason, so please don't stop bringing him back but not in that role, he has his own now) for a faction mascot and filled the hole they've created themselves by this character last-moment-add storyline with other cool DC characters they've had before in the base game. And pls stop make Stibbons suffer.

Linaleah

personal opinion. not the biggest fan of Darien, and I would honestly rather did something more with Gabriele Benelle and/or her family. that one short meeting in Gold Coast and running into her sister (or was it her cousin) in Craglorn was sorely lacking. Darien kinda gave me the creeps a little. he is not the reason why DC is my least favorite alliance to play in terms of story, but he is up there. i did like Gabrielle a lot though and she could seriously use a lot more development IMO.

all that said, necromancer player proxy in trailers is Breton hero from original trailers, (and player proxy warden in Morrowind trailers - is a redguard, also a DC race) so... I wonder if they consider that their nod towards DC? not sure.

P.S. I think part of the reason Stibbons and Lady Laurent are amusing to people is becasue they are basically Smithers and Mr Burns. and yes both of those relationships are abusive and co-dependant. But... and the same time Both Smithers and Stibbons are utterly in love with their masters and 100% convinced that they will not be able to to be ok without them and that they need to protect them. it is a choice that they made and keep making - to stay. is it healthy? no. but its a nod to Simpsons and a reccuring slapstick gag, so /shrug.

MLGProPlayer

Stibbons is worth at least 3 characters.

MLGProPlayer

Hallothiel wrote: »

Hmm not sure I agree. Darien was given the main role in Summerset - it could not have been saved without him.

And he’s not dead. Just......elsewhere?

I think he's supposed to be dead this time. But I'm sure he can be brought back because it's a fantasy world.

Now, here I am, back in the Colored Rooms. I thought that when I gave my energy to restore the sword—and I did that for my friend, not for Meridia—I thought that was the end of me. I'm back, though, but this time is different. My light, it's fading. I can feel the darkness getting closer, pressing in. I expect that once the light goes out, that will be the end.

Perhaps we'll see each other again, in another place, another time. I probably won't be the version of myself that's writing these words, though. That me will be gone. I can live with that.

TiaFrye

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Stibbons is worth at least 3 characters.

That's why he needs to be protected and at least once Lady Laurent needs to taste her own medicine.

Linaleah wrote: »

all that said, necromancer player proxy in trailers is Breton hero from original trailers, (and player proxy warden in Morrowind trailers - is a redguard, also a DC race) so... I wonder if they consider that their nod towards DC? not sure.

P.S. I think part of the reason Stibbons and Lady Laurent are amusing to people is becasue they are basically Smithers and Mr Burns. and yes both of those relationships are abusive and co-dependant. But... and the same time Both Smithers and Stibbons are utterly in love with their masters and 100% convinced that they will not be able to to be ok without them and that they need to protect them. it is a choice that they made and keep making - to stay. is it healthy? no. but its a nod to Simpsons and a reccuring slapstick gag, so /shrug.

Redguard in the trailers was made for completely new class tho. While Breton hero used necromancy in the first trailers and he's fitting on this role now, much like lone-survivor Altmer hero was perfect for Summerset. It's good to see them both none less tho.

About Stibbons - now imagine that the whole Simpsons are made solely on this gag. You may say that why would you say that, there is a lot of characters in ESO DLCs, but let me put it this way. Not every player would do Cadwell's gold and silver for a hat or motif, they simply go ahead into the later content. And there will be a lot of new characters, but each time the face you'll recognize from your previous experience will be these two. In the same abusive relationship. And from what I've heard from some people here and some people on my side, that's not funny anymore. We have this, while other players from other factions meet for example Rigurt and don't have anything negative to say about him.

Xvorg

TiaFrye wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

i mean, you guys have most of the map filled anyway. elsweyr needed representation because they had half a zone and an island.... like... lol. then it's likely back to EP which has most of its land just empty.

i think that DC was over-represented at the start of the game's life

it got Craglorn, Hew's Bane, Wrothgar. and Cyrodiil received another zone. Then it starts to move to ebonheart territory. just wait another year or 2. i think they will do Skyrim next because people want The Reach, and then we may see Hegathe or Rihad or something. i'm not going to argue about the story because they seem like valid points. but we should fill up the north, east and south first before we venture back to the west.

I was talking about not being interested in zones but in interactions with LIKEABLE characters and yet you still talking zones? Really?
I get it, the main post is big, but when I was just talking about the same thing with the other person and you insists on me wanting zones, it's irritating.

Verandis is not a likeable character? I think he's the very best in all the game.

And what makes him meaningful is the way how he ends up, saving all Tamriel. Neither EP nor AD have such character.

Even the bad guys in DC were much better. Angof was a really well balanced character and that can be noticed when you find him in Coldharbor

TiaFrye

Xvorg wrote: »

Verandis is not a likeable character? I think he's the very best in all the game.

And what makes him meaningful is the way how he ends up, saving all Tamriel. Neither EP nor AD have such character.

Even the bad guys in DC were much better. Angof was a really well balanced character and that can be noticed when you find him in Coldharbor

Verandis doen't show up after Rivenspire. And I'm talking about post-base-game (please, do check out essay I've hidden under the cut), not base game itself. Base game DC is amazing and I love Verandis very much.

JKorr

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Wow, far to long. I am hoping at some point clarity of thought enters that long wall or text. Honest feedback., If there is a point you are trying to make I suggest you get to it much faster and with more clarity.

I am assuming that the point is not to complain about a story line that is 5 years old but since you have made a big deal about it that is what Zos is going to see and will just stop reading because they will not be rewriting the base game stories. Anyhow, that is what seemed to be the case until the point I stopped reading.

Let me guess AD or EP characters all. I agree with the OP in every point. DC is under represented, Raz is not all that and I don't like Naryu.

My personal opinion only; DC didn't have any characters memorable enough to make me want to see any of them again. Even Darien wasn't that impressive imo. The character was more than a little overbearing, to me. The DC quests were the ones I suffered through; the miscellaneous quests were fine. The main faction quests, where you, a random wandering mercenary type are put in charge of choosing a ruler and putting down a vampire rebellion with a lot of collateral damage because Emeric is a total indecisive twit were the most annoying of the game, to me. Having him or any of the others showing up in additional content wouldn't do much for me.

TiaFrye

JKorr wrote: »

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Wow, far to long. I am hoping at some point clarity of thought enters that long wall or text. Honest feedback., If there is a point you are trying to make I suggest you get to it much faster and with more clarity.

I am assuming that the point is not to complain about a story line that is 5 years old but since you have made a big deal about it that is what Zos is going to see and will just stop reading because they will not be rewriting the base game stories. Anyhow, that is what seemed to be the case until the point I stopped reading.

Let me guess AD or EP characters all. I agree with the OP in every point. DC is under represented, Raz is not all that and I don't like Naryu.

My personal opinion only; DC didn't have any characters memorable enough to make me want to see any of them again. Even Darien wasn't that impressive imo. The character was more than a little overbearing, to me. The DC quests were the ones I suffered through; the miscellaneous quests were fine. The main faction quests, where you, a random wandering mercenary type are put in charge of choosing a ruler and putting down a vampire rebellion with a lot of collateral damage because Emeric is a total indecisive twit were the most annoying of the game, to me. Having him or any of the others showing up in additional content wouldn't do much for me.

It won't do much for you, but it will for other people. Some barely rolled trough DC, some loved almost everything about it. Well, I could not care less for EP aside from starting island and Deshaan, while nord king is absolute let down, and AD is Ayrenn's marysue-ish story most of it, not the whole Alliance. Doesn't make me say that I will be happy not seeing any of these zones' characters again.

Sometimes I think that most people in the community do forget that is an MMO and there is a lot of players beside them.

Nerouyn

TiaFrye wrote: »

Right now DC in underrepresented IN CHARACTERS almost in all DLCs and Chapters so far (from the point of DC player) to the point that some players might feel left alone.

Wrothgar was the game's first big expansion. DC.

The other factions have also had one big expansion each. Morrowind and Summerset. Including minor DLC, EP are in the lead courtesy of Clockwork City and Murkmire.

Both Morrowind and Summerset are somewhat intolerant of foreigners. Accordingly their major characters being primarily locals makes total sense.

Despite that one of the central characters in Summerset was DC, Josajeh. Sure, if you want to be negative you could view the rare foreigner at a mostly Altmer institution turning out to be a crazed villain as racist but hey, DC represented!

TiaFrye

Nerouyn wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

Right now DC in underrepresented IN CHARACTERS almost in all DLCs and Chapters so far (from the point of DC player) to the point that some players might feel left alone.

Wrothgar was the game's first big expansion. DC.

The other factions have also had one big expansion each. Morrowind and Summerset. Including minor DLC, EP are in the lead courtesy of Clockwork City and Murkmire.

Both Morrowind and Summerset are somewhat intolerant of foreigners. Accordingly their major characters being primarily locals makes total sense.

Despite that one of the central characters in Summerset was DC, Josajeh. Sure, if you want to be negative you could view the rare foreigner at a mostly Altmer institution turning out to be a crazed villain as racist but hey, DC represented!

Again, my friend, not talking about new characters of dc-races, but bringing back the ones from the base game. Which is rare for DC after the base game.

Now I regret putting that spoiler cut on a full text. First people seeing me as crazy "bring back Darien" person, now that I presumably think that base DC had no likeable characters and DC RACES are not presented enough in foreign zones... NOT TRUE.
For the love of god, stop. All I want, and not only me, is to see more familiar faces we knew from the base, whom was hella god, not just Stibbons and Neramo all over again.