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Race should just be cosmetic
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Uryel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Facefister wrote: »No.
With the upcoming patch, races are more balanced than ever, literally +/-~2%.
And they also lose most of their flavour, which has been an important part of the Elder Scrolls for several decades. Not sure how much I like that, but in most cases I don't mind. Removing the stealth bonus from the Bosmers and replacing it by a useless stealth detection bonus certainly is a d*ck move, though.
Races being strictly cosmetic wouldn't be so bad an idea if we were able to pick whatever passives we like for whatever character we have in mind at creation, though. But that's the exact opposite of what has been done in every elder scrolls game ever. Races DO have differences and specialties, in the lore, and I don't see a problem with that in game. Unless when the maths team suddenly decides to spit on the lore and remove some race-defining traits from a race because... Well, for saving my life, I have no idea what could make them think it's a good idea to remove stealth from Bosmers, really.
Anything else, I can understand from a balance point of view, and / or because it remains within the same philosophy even though the way it's done changes, but that one both puzzles and infuriates me.0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nah, just let us choose from premade passives list
- everyone gets the passives they want
- problem solved5 -
OolongSnakeTea✭✭✭✭
"I try to create sympathy for my characters, then turn the monsters loose."– Stephen King0 -
SgtSilock✭✭✭✭TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »This race change foolishness is pointless imo. Casual players are just that casual; they'll continue to play what they like and have fun without ever competing at the highest level. The endgame community will just swap to whatever is most efficient in the next patch. Nothing changes. I'd much rather see bug fixes. But hey, fixes and performance improvements don't generate money.
I’d take huge performance improvements and bug fixes over a years worth of content anyway. Make this happen ZOS
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom1 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nah, just let us choose from premade passives list
- everyone gets the passives they want
- problem solved
Hmm something like Daggerfall where the more bonuses you give your character the more penalties you also have to give. And not an XP penalty but a genuine weakness like extra fire damage taken or stunted recovery.1 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Better yet: go tell that to MolagFacefister wrote: »
Go and tell that Telvanni that the Argonian slave he whips is an equal to him.
0 -
mxxo✭✭✭✭After a lot of discussions in the forum and with friends i made my peace with the new passives. It took a while but well... Now i am thinking that the Devs did a good job, actually. Races are really close together in PVE and the changes are good for PVP and if there is a Khajiit who is bit talented in magic... so be it. No further changes needed for my part. Passives can stay.
Since i discussed in a lot of threads i want to thank everyone who discussed with me. I wasnt easy for sure. But it helped me to accept these changes. After all this is an awesome forum. And i really appreciate the possibility to discuss freely here!
Now i am ready to pre-order Elsweyr and embrace the Khajiit.
And ofc i deserve a bit of trolling, so feel free
Edited by mxxo on February 6, 2019 6:55PM3 -
FLuFFyxMuFFiN✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I will stubbornly main an Imperial no matter what happens to their passives.
I will also stubbornly defend a system where player character races have unique passives because variety is good
Yes I would continue to be Imperial even if their passives became the worst because in reality the racial passives don't really make a huge difference. I can still do all of the content and be happy.0 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Change racial passives to cosmetic things and any race could play any class. Problem solved.
You know, if you can keep subtle flavorings like the Argonian swimming skill-- I'm totally up for this. You know, the fun stuff. If a race doesn't have anything fun, then I'd love to see something added. Dark Elf float-in-the-air meditation like Vivec, or Bosmer rock jumping agility, etc.3 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nah, just let us choose from premade passives list
- everyone gets the passives they want
- problem solved
Not as much as you think. If ZOS made race cosmetic, and gave every character the same 4 passives, then the problem would be solved.
The problem is not different races with different passives, the problem is that one set of passives will alway be more preferred than the others. That is not going to be solved by cosmetic races, even with cafeteria style passives. The same 4 passives will be on the plate when the player comes to the end of the cafeteria line.
If they make races cosmetic and let players pick passives from a list, but required a Crown "racial passive change token", we would be back here again. The issue driven by the problem is one of low cost or easy changes when the preferred passives change.
The only solution to the problem and the issue it causes is to have only 4 racial passives, with no player choice.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus2 -
Cladius30✭✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »nah, just let us choose from premade passives list
- everyone gets the passives they want
- problem solved
Not as much as you think. If ZOS made race cosmetic, and gave every character the same 4 passives, then the problem would be solved.
The problem is not different races with different passives, the problem is that one set of passives will alway be more preferred than the others. That is not going to be solved by cosmetic races, even with cafeteria style passives. The same 4 passives will be on the plate when the player comes to the end of the cafeteria line.
If they make races cosmetic and let players pick passives from a list, but required a Crown "racial passive change token", we would be back here again. The issue driven by the problem is one of low cost or easy changes when the preferred passives change.
The only solution to the problem and the issue it causes is to have only 4 racial passives, with no player choice.
how about passives are made in to emotes or special pets or cosmetic things instead of combat related.3 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭After a lot of discussions in the forum and with friends i made my peace with the new passives. It took a while but well... Now i am thinking that the Devs did a good job, actually. Races are really close together in PVE and the changes are good for PVP and if there is a Khajiit who is bit talented in magic... so be it. No further changes needed for my part. Passives can stay.
Since i discussed in a lot of threads i want to thank everyone who discussed with me. I wasnt easy for sure. But it helped me to accept these changes. After all this is an awesome forum. And i really appreciate the possibility to discuss freely here!
Now i am ready to pre-order Elsweyr and embrace the Khajiit.
And ofc i deserve a bit of trolling, so feel free
No trolling from me. This is an awesome attitude to take.1 -
DoobZ69✭✭✭✭@Cladius30Change racial passives to cosmetic things and any race could play any class. Problem solved.
Agreed. You have my permission to run a poll on any and all forums for this now, while it is a hot topic. Ask the people what they want. I am confident you will get the correct answer.
ZOS have proven themselves incompetent in "balance" and "flavour" and "lore" of the races.
Firstly they claimed they want all races to be able to do every role and introduced us to shoe'horned and re-meta'd race choices.
Secondly they claimed these racials were based on some fancy metric which can be used to define how balanced they are. With the next patch they just threw it out of the window and came up with garbage reshuffle while ignoring complaints from almost every player about Nords for some STUPID reason like "we need to see the numbers" and leaving it the ONLY race unchanged.
This is on par with the immune to death pets in dungeons knee-jerk DISGUSTING BANDAGE CHANGE and warrants no tolerance from players who are serious about having balance in this game.
I gave them a chance and have been patiently waiting for a proper and thoughtful process to take place. NO MORE. As much as I was hoping they can make a balanced solution and keep flavour with the racials this is obviously a completely hopeless endeavour. They sat on the "how to" for 3 months and then almost instantly just ripped off their own chicken heads and started running around getting caught on fire. Get rid of the racials, this is the only clear way they can make a positive change at this stage.0 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No. This game is an Elder Scrolls game, and racials are part of TES.
Even if zos are currently screwing the pooch.1 -
Soleya✭✭✭✭✭
✭If race was purely cosmetic, there would be no reason to play anything other than Bosmer. 1 -
Castagere✭✭✭✭✭I would have wanted the same thing as the OP. But after seeing what they might do for the redguard I might have to shut my mouth on this. It looks really great so far. I have no hope it will stay that way though.Edited by Castagere on February 8, 2019 1:47AM0 -
kinguardian✭✭✭✭Although I am pissed that I have races with wrong classed for them because I didnt really got it when I started the game, its also one of the fun things. Otherwise it gets to easy. Also it tickles you to try out different races and classes. I would like if you could do a class change when you did made a mistake but that will never happen so whatever.0 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. This game is an Elder Scrolls game, and racials are part of TES.
Lie.
Insignificant racial bonuses are a part of TES.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Races
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Races
No race in the single player games has a bonus to magic or weapon damage. They're all equal in that respect.
If ESO were true to the single player games, the only racial passives would be the ones that give a bonus to learning speed for a specific skill line. That lines up with the single player games and the different starting skill levels.2 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »Facefister wrote: »
have you checked orcs?
Yes, having ~1k in the 62k range is ~1.6%. But your emotions tell otherwise, I know.
@Uryel
Because 10% max resources had so much depth.Edited by Facefister on February 8, 2019 2:53AM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I play a race based on looks. I don't even care what the racial are
And that is your choice just as it was your choice to start playing game that does have racial passives.
And again, you have a right to your opinion even though you bought into this game with the racial passives, Though you have no reason to expect many, and especially Zos, to agree with you.
0 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And that is your choice just as it was your choice to start playing game that does have racial passives.
And again, you have a right to your opinion even though you bought into this game with the racial passives, Though you have no reason to expect many, and especially Zos, to agree with you.
But we all know that's not true, don't we?
When the game launched it had scaling soft caps which effectively equalized races once their stats passed a certain point.
http://esoacademy.com/faq/what-are-soft-caps/
The significant racial passives were meant to appeal to your kind of player.
The soft caps were supposed to quietly undo the racial passives and appeal to their kind of player.
Apparently ZO thought that your kind of player would be too [snip] to realize this. But you weren't. So they had to remove the soft caps.
So truthfully the person you're talking to purchased a game with effectively insignificant racial passives, and that was taken away from them.
[Edit for bait.]Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on February 8, 2019 4:11AM2 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. This game is an Elder Scrolls game, and racials are part of TES.
Lie.
Insignificant racial bonuses are a part of TES.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Races
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Races
No race in the single player games has a bonus to magic or weapon damage. They're all equal in that respect.
If ESO were true to the single player games, the only racial passives would be the ones that give a bonus to learning speed for a specific skill line. That lines up with the single player games and the different starting skill levels.
You're a demi-god in the singleplayer games, ofcourse your race doesn't matter.0 -
LightMaster7✭✭✭✭Facefister wrote: »No. This game is an Elder Scrolls game, and racials are part of TES.
Lie.
Insignificant racial bonuses are a part of TES.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Races
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Races
No race in the single player games has a bonus to magic or weapon damage. They're all equal in that respect.
If ESO were true to the single player games, the only racial passives would be the ones that give a bonus to learning speed for a specific skill line. That lines up with the single player games and the different starting skill levels.
You're a demi-god in the singleplayer games, ofcourse your race doesn't matter.
LOL wasn't that the point he is making?
Racial Passives should not matter. No other MMORPG has this stupid requirement or handicap.
They could just easily make racial passives like how they did with CP with the ability of players to put points into specific areas as they choose which would MORE THAN SOLVE the issue of diverse builds.4 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »Was Shalidor's prodigious arcane proclivity an exception? Each and every one of our characters are instructed from the moment they begin the game that they are The One. The Chosen One. The only one who is uniquely qualified to save Nirn. In that context an awesome orc mage seems perfectly reasonable - but not supported by the current or proposed racials.
Your Orc is still slinging around Powerful Cosmic Forces and defeating gods. He's an Awesome Orc Mage™, even if some stat is 2% less than another player's - the NPCs and the world don't know that, they're not looking at your character sheet, or your DPS, or the leaderboards. Just your accomplishments.
Edited by Kiralyn2000 on February 8, 2019 3:53AM0 -
russelmmendoza✭✭✭✭✭
✭In the name of balance,
Let tamriel be destroyed,
Let the devs do their will,
Let the players pay the bill,
Let the lore be loss,
Let the devs be boss.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And that is your choice just as it was your choice to start playing game that does have racial passives.
And again, you have a right to your opinion even though you bought into this game with the racial passives, Though you have no reason to expect many, and especially Zos, to agree with you.
But we all know that's not true, don't we?
When the game launched it had scaling soft caps which effectively equalized races once their stats passed a certain point.
http://esoacademy.com/faq/what-are-soft-caps/
The significant racial passives were meant to appeal to your kind of player.
The soft caps were supposed to quietly undo the racial passives and appeal to their kind of player.
Apparently ZO thought that your kind of player would be too [snip] to realize this. But you weren't. So they had to remove the soft caps.
So truthfully the person you're talking to purchased a game with effectively insignificant racial passives, and that was taken away from them.
[Edit for bait.]
Factually you are not totally correct. Soft caps were merely a diminishing returns. One could still increase their max stat beyond the soft cap so the passives still helped.
More noticeably were some racial passives were not affected by any soft cap at all.Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on February 8, 2019 4:12AM0 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LightMaster7 wrote: »Facefister wrote: »No. This game is an Elder Scrolls game, and racials are part of TES.
Lie.
Insignificant racial bonuses are a part of TES.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Races
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Races
No race in the single player games has a bonus to magic or weapon damage. They're all equal in that respect.
If ESO were true to the single player games, the only racial passives would be the ones that give a bonus to learning speed for a specific skill line. That lines up with the single player games and the different starting skill levels.
You're a demi-god in the singleplayer games, ofcourse your race doesn't matter.
LOL wasn't that the point he is making?
Racial Passives should not matter. No other MMORPG has this stupid requirement or handicap.
They could just easily make racial passives like how they did with CP with the ability of players to put points into specific areas as they choose which would MORE THAN SOLVE the issue of diverse builds.
In ESO you're someone who is barely stronger than your average "hero". In the single-player games you're the "chosen one" and your race is just a costume. Just take the Dragonborn, he would wipe out vCR+3 single-handedly or shout Saint Olms and his clanks into submission.
Besides, tell me more about those other MMOs.0
