Maintenance for the week of January 5:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
Race should just be cosmetic
-
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Change racial passives to cosmetic things and any race could play any class. Problem solved.
No. Racial differences are part of what make Elder Scrolls games more interesting. Part of that is the fact that every race can play every class. Player skill helps to decide whether the combination over achieves or not. Life in ESO is about more than numbers. It is also about how well the player utilizes those numbers.No thanks, I don't want the flavour removed because those who chase min/max meta are not happy with changes.Why is there all the time that hate towards Min Maxers? What is wrong about choosing the right passives for your playstyle? Isnt that actually the sense of passives?
I am just pulling out this to point out the difference between a "min/maxer" and someone who chases the min/max meta. They are not the same thing. I know "min/maxers" and they live for this stuff. They get to crunch the numbers and work out variations, and they have fun doing it. For a game they like, changes like this are no problem, and could actually breathe new life into it. Obviously, that does not describe every one of them.
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus1 -
mxxo✭✭✭✭
There is nothing wrong with being a min/maxer. However part of choosing that style of play should be the acceptance that as changes happen you'll need to adapt to them in some form.
Why is there all the time that hate towards Min Maxers? What is wrong about choosing the right passives for your playstyle? Isnt that actually the sense of passives? A lot of my Chars are "Fun Chars", i am not the typical Min Maxer, but i see nothing wrong in it, its even encouraged by the game.. So by arguing against the sense of passives you want to keep them? Makes so sense, sry.
You can't choose the best then be mad every time the best is changed. I don't think it's all min/max players which have this mindset but sadly there is a very vocal number who get mad and rant on the forums every time their min/max build is altered.
I agree to some extent. But look: some ppl rly love their chars. And that is nothing odd in a mmoRPG. So why do we have to bind the passives to the race? That means there is always 1 thing that makes you unhappy: passives or race. So in my opinion it would be wise to put that variety system to another place and decouple it from race. Also it would stop race discussions, since then there are only unique individuals. If the majority of ppl agrees anyway that passives are only for min maxers and they just want a flavour... then why not?
I really want to understand why we need to keep a system which troubles us that much.Edited by mxxo on February 6, 2019 12:49PM8 -
Tatanko✭✭✭✭I will stubbornly main an Imperial no matter what happens to their passives.
I will also stubbornly defend a system where player character races have unique passives because variety is good
5 -
crjs1✭✭✭✭✭Racial difference has been a key part of elder scrolls since the beginning - it’s key to lore, immersion and role play. I’m no min maxer so for me racial difference isn’t about maximising stats it’s about immersion. It needs to be part of the game - within a context that it’s not so significant that it prevents class diversity.0 -
theyancey✭✭✭✭✭
✭The suggestion that a Nord should be as good a magic wielder as an Altmer and that a Breton should be able to bas like an orc is simply an idea born in a lack of understanding of lore and fertilized with willful ignorance.0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Facefister wrote: »
You’d never know it based on the literal tantrums people have been throwing.1 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The suggestion that a Nord should be as good a magic wielder as an Altmer and that a Breton should be able to bas like an orc is simply an idea born in a lack of understanding of lore and fertilized with willful ignorance.
One of Nirn's greatest mages - Shalidor (a Nord) - might disagree.
Was Shalidor's prodigious arcane proclivity an exception? Each and every one of our characters are instructed from the moment they begin the game that they are The One. The Chosen One. The only one who is uniquely qualified to save Nirn. In that context an awesome orc mage seems perfectly reasonable - but not supported by the current or proposed racials.PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo4 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I somewhat agree with you and if the racial passives went away I wouldn't make a fuss (though I would rather they stayed), but without them it's one less thing for those people who love min/max to play with.
There is nothing wrong with being a min/maxer. However part of choosing that style of play should be the acceptance that as changes happen you'll need to adapt to them in some form.
Why is there all the time that hate towards Min Maxers? What is wrong about choosing the right passives for your playstyle? Isnt that actually the sense of passives? A lot of my Chars are "Fun Chars", i am not the typical Min Maxer, but i see nothing wrong in it, its even encouraged by the game.. So by arguing against the sense of passives you want to keep them? Makes so sense, sry.
You can't choose the best then be mad every time the best is changed. I don't think it's all min/max players which have this mindset but sadly there is a very vocal number who get mad and rant on the forums every time their min/max build is altered.
I agree to some extent. But look: some ppl rly love their chars. And that is nothing odd in a mmoRPG. So why do we have to bind the passives to the race? That means there is always 1 thing that makes you unhappy: passives or race. So in my opinion it would be wise to put that variety system to another place and decouple it from race. Also it would stop race discussions, since then there are only unique individuals. If the majority of ppl agrees anyway that passives are only for min maxers and they just want a flavour... then why not?
I really want to understand why we need to keep a system that troubles us that much.
If we just remove anything which causes troubles to players with a min/max mindset we're going to end up with very few options. Part of the fun of min/max is having such broad options to play with.
I think the issue here isn't that we have passives, it's that ZOS is changing the passives.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."0 -
mxxo✭✭✭✭
I somewhat agree with you and if the racial passives went away I wouldn't make a fuss (though I would rather they stayed), but without them it's one less thing for those people who love min/max to play with.
There is nothing wrong with being a min/maxer. However part of choosing that style of play should be the acceptance that as changes happen you'll need to adapt to them in some form.
Why is there all the time that hate towards Min Maxers? What is wrong about choosing the right passives for your playstyle? Isnt that actually the sense of passives? A lot of my Chars are "Fun Chars", i am not the typical Min Maxer, but i see nothing wrong in it, its even encouraged by the game.. So by arguing against the sense of passives you want to keep them? Makes so sense, sry.
You can't choose the best then be mad every time the best is changed. I don't think it's all min/max players which have this mindset but sadly there is a very vocal number who get mad and rant on the forums every time their min/max build is altered.
I agree to some extent. But look: some ppl rly love their chars. And that is nothing odd in a mmoRPG. So why do we have to bind the passives to the race? That means there is always 1 thing that makes you unhappy: passives or race. So in my opinion it would be wise to put that variety system to another place and decouple it from race. Also it would stop race discussions, since then there are only unique individuals. If the majority of ppl agrees anyway that passives are only for min maxers and they just want a flavour... then why not?
I really want to understand why we need to keep a system that troubles us that much.
If we just remove anything which causes troubles to players with a min/max mindset we're going to end up with very few options. Part of the fun of min/max is having such broad options to play with.
I think the issue here isn't that we have passives, it's that ZOS is changing the passives.
Thats why i said: " it would be wise to put that variety system to another place". I spoke about to decouple it, not to remove it.Edited by mxxo on February 6, 2019 1:35PM2 -
Kuramas9tails✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree.
The reason I agree is because if you dig into Lore, a lot of races can be diverse in their specialty. I always wanted Khajiits to be magic based on ESO because Lore wise, they also master magic, depending on demographics of the Khajiit and sub-race. This plays into the part where I always thought giving people "constellations" they can pick during which month they select their character to be born in, that is their "passive".
In Lore, they believe based on the constellations, that is what you are made for.
Examples:
The Lady
The Lady is one of the Warrior's Charges and her Season is Heartfire. Those born under the sign of the Lady are kind and tolerant.
The Atronach
The Atronach (often called the Golem) is one of the Mage's Charges. Its season is Sun's Dusk. Those born under this sign are natural sorcerers with deep reserves of magicka, but they cannot generate magicka of their own.
The Apprentice
The Apprentice's Season is Sun's Height. Those born under the sign of the apprentice have a special affinity for magick of all kinds, but are more vulnerable to magick as well.
With these examples, we can kind of group races under constellations. Like The Apprentice could be what the Bretons or High Elves passives are now. So when you click your race, you click your constellation and based on that, your passives follow through.It is Lore friendly and lets people customize Race/Passives so if someone wanted to RP as a High Elf but wanted to master in Stamina, because technically they can Lore wise, the game lets them customize their character the way they portray it.
But this means Boons in game would need revamp as well but CP also need revamped.
It was just a thought I had a long time ago. Like they say, "Opinions are like ***, everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks."Your friendly neighborhood crazy cat lady of ESO
New PSN name: SundariTheLast. Proud seller in RedEye Empire, PURPLE GANG and Backalley Trading.
AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General)(Former Empress) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
AD Khajiit Mageblade DPS -- Flawless Conquerer
FOR THE QUEEN!
PS4/NA3 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »The suggestion that a Nord should be as good a magic wielder as an Altmer and that a Breton should be able to bas like an orc is simply an idea born in a lack of understanding of lore and fertilized with willful ignorance.
One of Nirn's greatest mages - Shalidor (a Nord) - might disagree.
Was Shalidor's prodigious arcane proclivity an exception? Each and every one of our characters are instructed from the moment they begin the game that they are The One. The Chosen One. The only one who is uniquely qualified to save Nirn. In that context an awesome orc mage seems perfectly reasonable - but not supported by the current or proposed racials.
We're not "Chosen Ones", we're merely pawns who are bit stronger than your average hero.
I am pretty sure that Shalidor would be a Trial Boss if he ever decides to be a villain.Edited by Facefister on February 6, 2019 2:30PM1 -
SenorCrouch✭✭✭This is why history is such an important thing. Bungie tried this with their characters in vanilla Destiny 2, basically tried to make their three characters cosmetic. Community realized that what they had asked for previously was uber boring and began complaining about it. Now Bungie is attempting to make their three characters feel different from one another. Sameness doesn't equate fun.
Having choice affect aspects of gameplay, such as Racial Passives, makes a game more interesting than you think. Imagine that level of choice removed from a game like Undertale...wouldn't have been heralded as such a great game. Imagine League of Legends having all their Champions be able to do every role? Wouldn't be as unique or fun. Oh sure you could try to have Teemo support and you may do a good job at it, but his kit and talent are probably better suited for top lane. While Khajiit may not be completely adept at being a strong magicka sorc, you can still get a lot of mileage out of making a Khajiit magSorc if done right. Just won't be the absolute min/max best.Edited by SenorCrouch on February 6, 2019 3:49PM"What's the cross roads of Alessia Castle? I am trying to get pizza delivered."0 -
mxxo✭✭✭✭
Salt is optional, some of us just enjoy the strawberries.
And so you agree that salt is removable 3 -
mxxo✭✭✭✭Shezzarrine wrote: »
Lol. This isnt the real world, races are much more distinct in the Elder Scrolls.
Exactly, TES/Nirn races are more species and sub species than RL races, e.g. a cat is not a different race (read ethnicity) to a lizard -- what they are is a separate species that underwent a different evolutionary process resulting in different physiology, and biology.
TES races are like that.
Still they all got Mages and Fighters which are often very equal. I think Race in ESO is rather meant symbolic for their way to live.
Well... uhm... let's think about this. Just taking Kajiit as an example (not picking on them, but they're just the easiest for this discussion).
I would expect Kajiit (with their skeletal and muscular structure) to be naturally more athletic than the humanoid races, more agile, mobile, and dexterous -- so would think logically that racial passives represent this. This would be an inescapable part of their physiology. That doesn't mean they can't be mages -- but that there is no 'racial' attuned influence. I'm not saying there shouldn't be, not arguing that there will be after U21; I'm just saying that there is no racial/evolutionary source for that.
However, it's nice to see them get some magicka love
And, let's be honest, where has there ever been an evolutionary tract that defines a magical affinity?!? I think just the point we're discussing talking cats already indicates how absurd this conversation (and upset) can get.
I agree (and i love my bosmer healer) except in 1 point. Khajiit as Individuals can ofc become great mages, but as a whole population they are rather stamina based. So if we have passives, then at least they should represent the race as a whole. And even Bosmer are stamina based in this game but they have connections to magic, too. And for example Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim never gave me the impression Khajiit are mainly mages. But with what explanation do Khajiit get Magicka now and Bosmer not? The Answer is simple: Gameplay over Lore and thats why it would be better to decouple passives from races, then at least everyone can be a mage or fighter. And we wouldnt have to judge individuals by the average of their race.Edited by mxxo on February 6, 2019 3:53PM1 -
Eshja✭✭✭✭I agree. I don't think race should be part of your build. I'm not min maxer, I was playing bosmer healer for a long time, cause I love lore of bosmers and I loved my char. But I always heard that I should play argonian, altmer, anything but bosmer. I guess that's what end game is like. You choose best sets for your team, you choose best skills... and you should get best race, cause even when you play good, you have great build... there will be always that player who is just good as you, but he have better race for your build.
It's not about numbers. It's about mentality of players. You can't just change way of thinking so many people.
You guys say you like the variety of races and build, that some are rare, but you also say, that new players ignores that anyways. Old players does it too, as they love the look of character or their story. And I don't think that you'd see many khajiit wizards if passives would be gone, cause race is something more than stupid passives.
And what's with that 'flavour'? You mean you like when people avoid end game cause they love their races too much? Or you like when people change their race, but they regret it deeply then? Of course, some people are able to completely ignore opinion of others and play their build and their race as they want, but it's not all of us.
I love lore, I love that so many mechanic aspects are consistent with lore, but I think this one does more harm than good.Edited by Eshja on February 6, 2019 3:55PM@Eshja (PC EU) Master crafter | Roleplayer | Trial scrub | Love healing ♥
My characters: Nimpys Elenmir| Narielle Telvanni | Moans-Loudly | Vivienne The Zookeeper | Zamiatająca-Ogonem | Kha'mathre | Irgret Soul-Breaker6 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This is true for Khajiit and Dunmer.Facefister wrote: »
Note that Dunmer has no sustain and Khajiit is weak in PvP as most of its power is because of more critical damage.
Worst case is more like 7%.
Class is more important, in the PTS big parse an Orc magblade will out dps an Breton magDK. An Imperial would do even higher dps.
In current meta I think an Altmer warden will do better as stamina
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Odnoc✭✭✭✭No thanks, it's an RPG with established lore where races have different strengths and weaknesses. Want everything the same, go play a FPS.1 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I was on the assumption that the salt was optional because it referred to the salt people felt over changes, in which case people could not be salty and thus just enjoy the strawberries for how they taste.
Salt is optional, some of us just enjoy the strawberries.
And so you agree that salt is removable
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."1 -
chetter_hummin✭✭✭solution given by OP is what in mathematics is called the simple solution when u replace everything with 0 0 -
Gythral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭race should not be just cosmetic
there are 25 years of lore which make it clear this is not simply the case“Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
If you look at the racial for Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion, that kind of fall apart. Racials was starting bonuses to attributes and skills. And some magic bonus to Altmer and Breton, the magic bonus was larger magazine not higher dps.The suggestion that a Nord should be as good a magic wielder as an Altmer and that a Breton should be able to bas like an orc is simply an idea born in a lack of understanding of lore and fertilized with willful ignorance.
My main problem in Oblivion playing female Bosmer and Khajiit was the low starting strength as in 30 so you could not carry much loot. This was also an issue for magic builds.
Endgame all did the same dps as skills was capped at 100. Obviously you used weakness to magic stacking making dps pointless. But making an goblin warlord permanent hostile to goblins was fun
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.3 -
mxxo✭✭✭✭
I was on the assumption that the salt was optional because it referred to the salt people felt over changes, in which case people could not be salty and thus just enjoy the strawberries for how they taste.
Salt is optional, some of us just enjoy the strawberries.
And so you agree that salt is removable
Ye, the ambiguity had a onesided touch
1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Lots of lore got established with ESO, how much lore about Khajiit architecture? And no Breton is best dps, Khajiit is best on templar who is more known as healers than high dps parses.MLGProPlayer wrote: »
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Lots of lore got established with ESO, how much lore about Khajiit architecture? And no Breton is best dps, Khajiit is best on templar who is more known as healers than high dps parses.MLGProPlayer wrote: »
Khajiit just got a huge indirect buff with the changes to Shadow mundus. The math so far looks like they're on top. We just need to wait for PTS to come online to test.1 -
Grianasteri✭✭✭✭✭
✭Change racial passives to cosmetic things and any race could play any class. Problem solved.
No.
The only people really upset are the relatively small number of the min/max fraternity. I do not say that pejoratively, it is just a fact.
The vast majority of ESO players, it seems to me, while we may wish to do well and tackle end game content, are not concerned with the difference of a few % DPS.
Just my observation. I think the issues are over hyped, but I guess only time will tell.0 -
mxxo✭✭✭✭Grianasteri wrote: »Change racial passives to cosmetic things and any race could play any class. Problem solved.
No.
The only people really upset are the relatively small number of the min/max fraternity. I do not say that pejoratively, it is just a fact.
The vast majority of ESO players, it seems to me, while we may wish to do well and tackle end game content, are not concerned with the difference of a few % DPS.
Just my observation. I think the issues are over hyped, but I guess only time will tell.
You are in contact with the vast majority of eso players? oO3
