Altmer changes and lore

Amorpho

I'm loving the race changes so far, but when I read the latest tweak on altmer I just cringed. ZOS told us that the race changes were inspired by a desire to bring them all to the same level of viability (depending on playstyle) while highlighting their identity in keeping with lore (which I thought was fantastic)!

The initial changes were great, although some races needed tweaking. The tweaking came and it made it all even better.

But then I read that Altmers (an exclusively magicka race) lost their magicka sustain entirely in favour of stamina sustain... Whereas I can see how it would be useful in pvp, it really doesn't make any sense at all. If you're not giving them magicka sustain, give them something magicka related (like magicka penetration or magicka steal?) not stam sustain...

Please reconsider this.

MLGProPlayer

1. Altmer are third highest magicka DPS, behind Khajiit (lol), and Breton
2. Altmer are a hybrid race now that regenerates stamina (lol)

Olupajmibanan

Spell Penetration is actually the best idea. Good in PvP, but can be useful in PvE as well (by freeing some points from Spell Erosion). Or if they like racial proc passives, they can even tie it to some.

Amorpho

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Spell Penetration is actually the best idea. Good in PvP, but can be useful in PvE as well (by freeing some points from Spell Erosion). Or if they like racial proc passives, they can even tie it to some.

I would much rather get some sustain. As they are, we will have to sacrifice some dps for the sake of sustain through gear. No point giving us flat magicka and flat spell damage if we run out of juice after 3 rotations... Logic implies I should be a Breton or a Khajit, but I would not race change because I love Altmer role (which is also now broken)

martijnlv40

And the diversity is killed even more. because stamina players that want to use the high elf, get a magicka recovery! It's plain sad

bardx86

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Spell Penetration is actually the best idea. Good in PvP, but can be useful in PvE as well (by freeing some points from Spell Erosion). Or if they like racial proc passives, they can even tie it to some.

I would prefer sustain as well but penetration wouldn't be bad except for healers.

maboleth

Idiocy of zos shines again. Those guys just cannot make happy changes. They need to screw up something, make people frustrated and take even more money in the process.

My biggest regret in Eso was wasting my own money all those years on a sub. It just wasn't worth it.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Gonna get tired of doing this eventually but here we go again:

Arena
Intelligence, Agility, Willfullness
Immunity to paralysis
Wazards

Daggerfall
Intelligence, Force of Will, Agility
Personality

Battlespire
Long and Short Blades, Magic

Morrowind
Agility, Intelligence, Willpower, Endurance, Luck
Weakness to Magicka and Fire
Weakness to frost
Resist Disease

Oblivion
+ Int
- Strength
Weakness to elements
Resist Disease

Skyrim
Magic skill line bonuses
Highborn and Fortify Magica

In short; unless you are a Skyrim/Oblivion normie, it is perfectly within the lore for highelves to have a slight offstat bonus for Agility, Willpower, and even use Swords.

DarkPicture

With lore its because the lore master is leaving zenimax that's why they starts breaking lore.

MLGProPlayer

Browart wrote: »

With lore its because the lore master is leaving zenimax that's why they starts breaking lore.

I can just imagine Lawrence's face walking in on Wheeler and Co.'s meeting and hearing them talk about making Khajiit the strongest magicka race in the game.

Minalan

Altmer worst dummy parse in game! Feel my elven nerd rage!

bardx86

Minalan wrote: »

Altmer worst dummy parse in game! Feel my elven nerd rage!

bah just bah

Kikke

Just a cash grab to make Altmers and dunmers to buy race change tokens.

Tho, every RPG game I play as a elf or high elf if possible. So I'd rather quit then play as the lesser race.

Kalle_Demos

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Gonna get tired of doing this eventually but here we go again:

Arena
Intelligence, Agility, Willfullness
Immunity to paralysis
Wazards

Daggerfall
Intelligence, Force of Will, Agility
Personality

Battlespire
Long and Short Blades, Magic

Morrowind
Agility, Intelligence, Willpower, Endurance, Luck
Weakness to Magicka and Fire
Weakness to frost
Resist Disease

Oblivion
+ Int
- Strength
Weakness to elements
Resist Disease

Skyrim
Magic skill line bonuses
Highborn and Fortify Magica

In short; unless you are a Skyrim/Oblivion normie, it is perfectly within the lore for highelves to have a slight offstat bonus for Agility, Willpower, and even use Swords.

Arena:


The Altmer, also known as High Elves, hail from the island province of Summerset. They are a tall, brown or gold-skinned people with almond-shaped eyes. High Elves are extremely intelligent, agile, and willful. High Elves seem drawn to magic as a moth is to flame; they have a natural affinity to its use, and make quite formidable wizards. High Elves are naturally immune to paralysis. They are adept at any art involving the arcane.



DaggerFall:


+10 Intelligence
+10 Willpower (M)
+10 Personality (F)
-10 Strength
-10 Endurance



BattleSpire


Long Blade +10
Short Blade +10
Alteration +5
Thaumaturgy +5
Restoration +5
Mysticism +5
Illusion +5



Morrowind:


Attributes Male Female
Agility 40 40
Endurance 40 30
Intelligence 50 50
Luck 40 40
Personality 40 40
Speed 30 40
Strength 30 30
Willpower 40 40

Skill Modifier

Alchemy +10
Alteration +5
Conjuration +5
Destruction +10
Enchant +10
Illusion +5

Abilities

Fortify Maximum Magicka (1.5 x Intelligence)
50% Weakness to Magicka and Fire
25% Weakness to Frost and Shock
Resist Disease – 75% Resistance to Common Diseases



Oblivion:


Attributes Male Female

Agility +0 +0
Endurance +0 -10
Intelligence +10 +10
Luck +0 +0
Personality +0 +0
Speed -10 +0
Strength -10 -10
Willpower +0 +0

Special Abilities

Weakness to Fire, 25 points
Weakness to Frost, 25 points
Weakness to Shock, 25 points
Resist Disease, 75 points
Fortified Magicka, 100 points
Disposition with other Altmer, +5



Skyrim:


Skill Bonuses

+10 Illusion (level 25)
+5 Alteration (level 20)
+5 Conjuration (level 20)
+5 Destruction (level 20)
+5 Enchanting (level 20)
+5 Restoration (level 20)

Special Abilities

Highborn: Regenerate magicka faster for 60 seconds, once a day.
Fortify Magicka: Passive increase in magicka by 50 points. If the player is a vampire and the Necromage perk is taken
from the Restoration perk tree, this will increase by 25% to 62 points


The Altmer in Lore and Gameplay have Always been the best Mages and their Magical Skills have always outstripped any physical ones they may have had. To pretend otherwise while having even tertiary knowledge of the Elder Scrolls is to be intentionally ignorant. Zos wants to give Altmer stam Regen? Fine. Don't nuke their Magicka performance with more NERFs and heavy handed changes.

*Intelligence and Willpower are attributes associated with strong Mages

MartiniDaniels

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Gonna get tired of doing this eventually but here we go again:

Arena
Intelligence, Agility, Willfullness
Immunity to paralysis
Wazards

Daggerfall
Intelligence, Force of Will, Agility
Personality

Battlespire
Long and Short Blades, Magic

Morrowind
Agility, Intelligence, Willpower, Endurance, Luck
Weakness to Magicka and Fire
Weakness to frost
Resist Disease

Oblivion
+ Int
- Strength
Weakness to elements
Resist Disease

Skyrim
Magic skill line bonuses
Highborn and Fortify Magica

In short; unless you are a Skyrim/Oblivion normie, it is perfectly within the lore for highelves to have a slight offstat bonus for Agility, Willpower, and even use Swords.

Wut? What swords in Morrowind? And willpower is magicka ability, yes it provides additional stamina in Morrowind like other 4 abilities, but first of all it determines your ability to cast powerful spells. Arena and daggerfall it's too long ago and was adjusted (Barenzia changed skin color etc)

PrinceShroob

Altmer have never been hands-down the "best" at magic -- their starting Intelligence is tied with Bretons and female Argonians, and they don't have the highest Willpower, either. Their weaknesses to magic were a major turn-off in Morrowind and Oblivion. Gameplay-wise, skill bonuses are irrelevant at higher levels (everyone is the same once the skill hits 100) and even with the Altmer's high magicka bonus, you'd pick another race if you wanted different utility (say, Dunmer for resistance to the fire traps in the planes of Oblivion or Argonian to immunity to poison gas traps and weapon-delivered poisons). Bretons are probably the "best" mages in Oblivion, at least, since one piece of gear renders them totally immune to magic.

Lore-wise, there's always been a disconnect between gameplay bonuses and lore -- for example, Bretons have no skill bonuses that reflect their cultural passion for political intrigue.

This whole argument seems to be reducible to "actually, the lore means that my favorite race has to be the strongest and coolest." I also don't understand splitting hairs over negligible differences in performance.

MartiniDaniels

martijnlv40 wrote: »

And the diversity is killed even more. because stamina players that want to use the high elf, get a magicka recovery! It's plain sad

This is best example of how ZOS employees responsible for this passives totally don't understand what's going on in the game. Thing is that though stamina recovery has some uses in real combat due to roll/dodge/breakfree, but additional magicka recovery is completely useless for stamina builds, so stamina high elves receive NOTHING from racial passives..

twing1_

Amorpho wrote: »

I'm loving the race changes so far, but when I read the latest tweak on altmer I just cringed. ZOS told us that the race changes were inspired by a desire to bring them all to the same level of viability (depending on playstyle) while highlighting their identity in keeping with lore (which I thought was fantastic)!

The initial changes were great, although some races needed tweaking. The tweaking came and it made it all even better.

But then I read that Altmers (an exclusively magicka race) lost their magicka sustain entirely in favour of stamina sustain... Whereas I can see how it would be useful in pvp, it really doesn't make any sense at all. If you're not giving them magicka sustain, give them something magicka related (like magicka penetration or magicka steal?) not stam sustain...

Please reconsider this.

I completely agree with you. Lower stat restore sounds like a hybrid race passive, not a magicka pure. I've posted about this and outlined a change I think would remedy both the altmer and the dunmer. Check it out, and give it some attention. I want it to get enough buzz so that it catches the attention of the devs.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457727/lowest-resource-restore-belongs-to-the-dunmer#latest

Kalle_Demos

PrinceShroob wrote: »

Altmer have never been hands-down the "best" at magic -- their starting Intelligence is tied with Bretons and female Argonians, and they don't have the highest Willpower, either. Their weaknesses to magic were a major turn-off in Morrowind and Oblivion. Gameplay-wise, skill bonuses are irrelevant at higher levels (everyone is the same once the skill hits 100) and even with the Altmer's high magicka bonus, you'd pick another race if you wanted different utility (say, Dunmer for resistance to the fire traps in the planes of Oblivion or Argonian to immunity to poison gas traps and weapon-delivered poisons). Bretons are probably the "best" mages in Oblivion, at least, since one piece of gear renders them totally immune to magic.

Lore-wise, there's always been a disconnect between gameplay bonuses and lore -- for example, Bretons have no skill bonuses that reflect their cultural passion for political intrigue.

This whole argument seems to be reducible to "actually, the lore means that my favorite race has to be the strongest and coolest." I also don't understand splitting hairs over negligible differences in performance.

Elder scrolls Lore and Gameplay including ESO has a literal decades worth of evidence that proves you wrong. Summerset is the birthplace of Magical education in Tamriel and of the Psijic Order, rivaled only by the Telvanni of Morrowind.

MLGProPlayer

PrinceShroob wrote: »

Altmer have never been hands-down the "best" at magic -- their starting Intelligence is tied with Bretons and female Argonians, and they don't have the highest Willpower, either. Their weaknesses to magic were a major turn-off in Morrowind and Oblivion. Gameplay-wise, skill bonuses are irrelevant at higher levels (everyone is the same once the skill hits 100) and even with the Altmer's high magicka bonus, you'd pick another race if you wanted different utility (say, Dunmer for resistance to the fire traps in the planes of Oblivion or Argonian to immunity to poison gas traps and weapon-delivered poisons). Bretons are probably the "best" mages in Oblivion, at least, since one piece of gear renders them totally immune to magic.

Lore-wise, there's always been a disconnect between gameplay bonuses and lore -- for example, Bretons have no skill bonuses that reflect their cultural passion for political intrigue.

This whole argument seems to be reducible to "actually, the lore means that my favorite race has to be the strongest and coolest." I also don't understand splitting hairs over negligible differences in performance.

Altmer are the strongest mages in the lore.

But irrespective of that, they absolutely are NOT a hybrid race. Stamina regen makes zero thematic sense on them.