MLGProPlayer wrote: »ZOS said they are removing Altmer sustain because Altmer have too much damage and don't deserve sustain passives. This goes in the face of actual testing which shows Breton very clearly pulling ahead of Altmer in DPS.
So let's compare the 2 races as they are currently on PTS using basic math:
Spell damage:
Here is where ZOS' balance approach is flawed. They are looking at values on paper, outside of any actual context.
Altmer: +258 spell damage
Breton: +0 spell damage
Looking at this, someone not familiar with the game would assume that Altmer deal more damage. This is of course false. Anybody who actually plays the game would know that sustain is a factor in determining DPS too. Let's compare sustain now.
Sustain:
Breton: +7% cost reduction, +100 magicka recovery
Altmer: +192 magicka recovery (575/6)
Effective magicka recovery:
Breton: +500 (assuming that the average cost of a skill is 3k, they save ~200 magicka every second, or 400 every 2 seconds + 100 from their flat recovery bonus)
Altmer: +192
As you can see, there is a huge descrepency between the two when it comes to sustain. What does this mean? It means that Altmer need to slot a recovery glyph in order to sustain endgame fights. Bretons, on the other hand, don't need to slot a recovery glyph since they have that sustain built into their passives. This means they can slot a Berserker glyph instead. Now let's look at their spell damage numbers again.
Spell damage (again):
Altmer: +258
Breton: +452
All of a sudden, Breton has +200 spell damage on Altmer. Now, this obviously isn't a flat +200 buff since the recovery glyph deals 4k magicka damage too, but it's still enough of a difference to put Breton slightly on top (which was fine).
So, how is ZOS addressing this (assuming anything needs to be addressed, which it really doesn't)? By nerfing Altmer sustain....
Olupajmibanan wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »ZOS said they are removing Altmer sustain because Altmer have too much damage and don't deserve sustain passives. This goes in the face of actual testing which shows Breton very clearly pulling ahead of Altmer in DPS.
So let's compare the 2 races as they are currently on PTS using basic math:
Spell damage:
Here is where ZOS' balance approach is flawed. They are looking at values on paper, outside of any actual context.
Altmer: +258 spell damage
Breton: +0 spell damage
Looking at this, someone not familiar with the game would assume that Altmer deal more damage. This is of course false. Anybody who actually plays the game would know that sustain is a factor in determining DPS too. Let's compare sustain now.
Sustain:
Breton: +7% cost reduction, +100 magicka recovery
Altmer: +192 magicka recovery (575/6)
Effective magicka recovery:
Breton: +500 (assuming that the average cost of a skill is 3k, they save ~200 magicka every second, or 400 every 2 seconds + 100 from their flat recovery bonus)
Altmer: +192
As you can see, there is a huge descrepency between the two when it comes to sustain. What does this mean? It means that Altmer need to slot a recovery glyph in order to sustain endgame fights. Bretons, on the other hand, don't need to slot a recovery glyph since they have that sustain built into their passives. This means they can slot a Berserker glyph instead. Now let's look at their spell damage numbers again.
Spell damage (again):
Altmer: +258
Breton: +452
All of a sudden, Breton has +200 spell damage on Altmer. Now, this obviously isn't a flat +200 buff since the recovery glyph deals 4k magicka damage too, but it's still enough of a difference to put Breton slightly on top (which was fine).
So, how is ZOS addressing this (assuming anything needs to be addressed, which it really doesn't)? By nerfing Altmer sustain....
And now do a comparison with Khajit which offers more dmg than Altmer, but his sustain passive is left untouched.
MLGProPlayer wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »ZOS said they are removing Altmer sustain because Altmer have too much damage and don't deserve sustain passives. This goes in the face of actual testing which shows Breton very clearly pulling ahead of Altmer in DPS.
So let's compare the 2 races as they are currently on PTS using basic math:
Spell damage:
Here is where ZOS' balance approach is flawed. They are looking at values on paper, outside of any actual context.
Altmer: +258 spell damage
Breton: +0 spell damage
Looking at this, someone not familiar with the game would assume that Altmer deal more damage. This is of course false. Anybody who actually plays the game would know that sustain is a factor in determining DPS too. Let's compare sustain now.
Sustain:
Breton: +7% cost reduction, +100 magicka recovery
Altmer: +192 magicka recovery (575/6)
Effective magicka recovery:
Breton: +500 (assuming that the average cost of a skill is 3k, they save ~200 magicka every second, or 400 every 2 seconds + 100 from their flat recovery bonus)
Altmer: +192
As you can see, there is a huge descrepency between the two when it comes to sustain. What does this mean? It means that Altmer need to slot a recovery glyph in order to sustain endgame fights. Bretons, on the other hand, don't need to slot a recovery glyph since they have that sustain built into their passives. This means they can slot a Berserker glyph instead. Now let's look at their spell damage numbers again.
Spell damage (again):
Altmer: +258
Breton: +452
All of a sudden, Breton has +200 spell damage on Altmer. Now, this obviously isn't a flat +200 buff since the recovery glyph deals 4k magicka damage too, but it's still enough of a difference to put Breton slightly on top (which was fine).
So, how is ZOS addressing this (assuming anything needs to be addressed, which it really doesn't)? By nerfing Altmer sustain....
And now do a comparison with Khajit which offers more dmg than Altmer, but his sustain passive is left untouched.
Crit% is harder to equalize with spell damage, but they have been parsing higher than Altmer in templar and NB tests so far. It makes zero sense that the third best magicka DPS race is getting nerfed. It shows that ZOS hasn't done any actual testing of the races.
Olupajmibanan wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »ZOS said they are removing Altmer sustain because Altmer have too much damage and don't deserve sustain passives. This goes in the face of actual testing which shows Breton very clearly pulling ahead of Altmer in DPS.
So let's compare the 2 races as they are currently on PTS using basic math:
Spell damage:
Here is where ZOS' balance approach is flawed. They are looking at values on paper, outside of any actual context.
Altmer: +258 spell damage
Breton: +0 spell damage
Looking at this, someone not familiar with the game would assume that Altmer deal more damage. This is of course false. Anybody who actually plays the game would know that sustain is a factor in determining DPS too. Let's compare sustain now.
Sustain:
Breton: +7% cost reduction, +100 magicka recovery
Altmer: +192 magicka recovery (575/6)
Effective magicka recovery:
Breton: +500 (assuming that the average cost of a skill is 3k, they save ~200 magicka every second, or 400 every 2 seconds + 100 from their flat recovery bonus)
Altmer: +192
As you can see, there is a huge descrepency between the two when it comes to sustain. What does this mean? It means that Altmer need to slot a recovery glyph in order to sustain endgame fights. Bretons, on the other hand, don't need to slot a recovery glyph since they have that sustain built into their passives. This means they can slot a Berserker glyph instead. Now let's look at their spell damage numbers again.
Spell damage (again):
Altmer: +258
Breton: +452
All of a sudden, Breton has +200 spell damage on Altmer. Now, this obviously isn't a flat +200 buff since the recovery glyph deals 4k magicka damage too, but it's still enough of a difference to put Breton slightly on top (which was fine).
So, how is ZOS addressing this (assuming anything needs to be addressed, which it really doesn't)? By nerfing Altmer sustain....
And now do a comparison with Khajit which offers more dmg than Altmer, but his sustain passive is left untouched.
Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »ZOS said they are removing Altmer sustain because Altmer have too much damage and don't deserve sustain passives. This goes in the face of actual testing which shows Breton very clearly pulling ahead of Altmer in DPS.
So let's compare the 2 races as they are currently on PTS using basic math:
Spell damage:
Here is where ZOS' balance approach is flawed. They are looking at values on paper, outside of any actual context.
Altmer: +258 spell damage
Breton: +0 spell damage
Looking at this, someone not familiar with the game would assume that Altmer deal more damage. This is of course false. Anybody who actually plays the game would know that sustain is a factor in determining DPS too. Let's compare sustain now.
Sustain:
Breton: +7% cost reduction, +100 magicka recovery
Altmer: +192 magicka recovery (575/6)
Effective magicka recovery:
Breton: +500 (assuming that the average cost of a skill is 3k, they save ~200 magicka every second, or 400 every 2 seconds + 100 from their flat recovery bonus)
Altmer: +192
As you can see, there is a huge descrepency between the two when it comes to sustain. What does this mean? It means that Altmer need to slot a recovery glyph in order to sustain endgame fights. Bretons, on the other hand, don't need to slot a recovery glyph since they have that sustain built into their passives. This means they can slot a Berserker glyph instead. Now let's look at their spell damage numbers again.
Spell damage (again):
Altmer: +258
Breton: +452
All of a sudden, Breton has +200 spell damage on Altmer. Now, this obviously isn't a flat +200 buff since the recovery glyph deals 4k magicka damage too, but it's still enough of a difference to put Breton slightly on top (which was fine).
So, how is ZOS addressing this (assuming anything needs to be addressed, which it really doesn't)? By nerfing Altmer sustain....
And now do a comparison with Khajit which offers more dmg than Altmer, but his sustain passive is left untouched.
You're complaining about 75 recovery? Khajit is ment to be able to be placed as any build. Dps, healer or tank
John_Falstaff wrote: »I think that calculations in the starting post omit the fact that flat buff from altmer (and 100 from breton) are eligible for recovery percentage bonuses, while the flat buff from 7% cost reduction is not subject to any multipliers, so the gap will be smaller than presented. But of course still there. In addition, I think it's underplaying the damage that infused absorb magicka glyph can do - for the front bar, infused fire is already preferred to berserker for maximum single target damage, and absorb isn't dramatically weaker.
@Olupajmibanan , have you seen parses from PTS? Khajiit is the opposite of good sustain - parses are high, but they're unsustainable even with full group support (and people testify that spread is high specifically because of bad sustain and having to put in heavy attacks during execute phase when cost of each skill cast is so high).
Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »You're complaining about 75 recovery? Khajit is ment to be able to be placed as any build. Dps, healer or tank
John_Falstaff wrote: »I think that calculations in the starting post omit the fact that flat buff from altmer (and 100 from breton) are eligible for recovery percentage bonuses, while the flat buff from 7% cost reduction is not subject to any multipliers, so the gap will be smaller than presented. But of course still there. In addition, I think it's underplaying the damage that infused absorb magicka glyph can do - for the front bar, infused fire is already preferred to berserker for maximum single target damage, and absorb isn't dramatically weaker.
@Olupajmibanan , have you seen parses from PTS? Khajiit is the opposite of good sustain - parses are high, but they're unsustainable even with full group support (and people testify that spread is high specifically because of bad sustain and having to put in heavy attacks during execute phase when cost of each skill cast is so high).
What's the point of doing math for the things that will get changed in next few hours or so ? How about we wait for patch notes and then make some math ?
Khajiits literally have no magical affinity, while some can learn the ways of magicka they could never become powerful mages but ZOS doesn't care about lore apparently. It's what many Khajiit players wanted so they gave it to them.Olupajmibanan wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »I think that calculations in the starting post omit the fact that flat buff from altmer (and 100 from breton) are eligible for recovery percentage bonuses, while the flat buff from 7% cost reduction is not subject to any multipliers, so the gap will be smaller than presented. But of course still there. In addition, I think it's underplaying the damage that infused absorb magicka glyph can do - for the front bar, infused fire is already preferred to berserker for maximum single target damage, and absorb isn't dramatically weaker.
@Olupajmibanan , have you seen parses from PTS? Khajiit is the opposite of good sustain - parses are high, but they're unsustainable even with full group support (and people testify that spread is high specifically because of bad sustain and having to put in heavy attacks during execute phase when cost of each skill cast is so high).
Khajit has 75 mag recovery. Altmer is going to have none. Khajit is parsing higher than Altmer. Where is justice in that.
Not even saying that it's a lorebreaking disaster. Khajits, better casters than High Elves.
IronWooshu wrote: »Khajiits literally have no magical affinity, while some can learn the ways of magicka they could never become powerful mages but ZOS doesn't care about lore apparently. It's what many Khajiit players wanted so they gave it to them.Olupajmibanan wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »I think that calculations in the starting post omit the fact that flat buff from altmer (and 100 from breton) are eligible for recovery percentage bonuses, while the flat buff from 7% cost reduction is not subject to any multipliers, so the gap will be smaller than presented. But of course still there. In addition, I think it's underplaying the damage that infused absorb magicka glyph can do - for the front bar, infused fire is already preferred to berserker for maximum single target damage, and absorb isn't dramatically weaker.
@Olupajmibanan , have you seen parses from PTS? Khajiit is the opposite of good sustain - parses are high, but they're unsustainable even with full group support (and people testify that spread is high specifically because of bad sustain and having to put in heavy attacks during execute phase when cost of each skill cast is so high).
Khajit has 75 mag recovery. Altmer is going to have none. Khajit is parsing higher than Altmer. Where is justice in that.
Not even saying that it's a lorebreaking disaster. Khajits, better casters than High Elves.
IronWooshu wrote: »Khajiits literally have no magical affinity, while some can learn the ways of magicka they could never become powerful mages but ZOS doesn't care about lore apparently. It's what many Khajiit players wanted so they gave it to them.Olupajmibanan wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »I think that calculations in the starting post omit the fact that flat buff from altmer (and 100 from breton) are eligible for recovery percentage bonuses, while the flat buff from 7% cost reduction is not subject to any multipliers, so the gap will be smaller than presented. But of course still there. In addition, I think it's underplaying the damage that infused absorb magicka glyph can do - for the front bar, infused fire is already preferred to berserker for maximum single target damage, and absorb isn't dramatically weaker.
@Olupajmibanan , have you seen parses from PTS? Khajiit is the opposite of good sustain - parses are high, but they're unsustainable even with full group support (and people testify that spread is high specifically because of bad sustain and having to put in heavy attacks during execute phase when cost of each skill cast is so high).
Khajit has 75 mag recovery. Altmer is going to have none. Khajit is parsing higher than Altmer. Where is justice in that.
Not even saying that it's a lorebreaking disaster. Khajits, better casters than High Elves.