Wtb shards

TheGreatBlackBear

Yea I'm going to go ahead and call bs on that one. I group parse under trial conditions and I don't cross 10k most times if ever.

eliisra

Sometimes dps is so bad though, it's basically throwing pearls to the pigs, for a healer to keep every buff up and feed resources. Not to mention, in groups like that the healer normally have to heal non-stop so wont have magicka left for much else.

Than it's understandable that healers just say screw it and starts dps'ing instead.

But sure, there's loads of lazy healers around that spends fights just light/heavy attacking and dropping a heal here and there. My experience though, is that they normally slot shards&orbs if I as tank demand it. They're like "hmm ok than i'll do it" like they're doing me a big favor lol.

Only issue than is making them use it frequently enough, because gets tiresome to spam SHAARDsaa PLSddd arghhh!!! all the time while busy with mobs or bosses. I'm not very good at typing while playing

kringled_1

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Yea I'm going to go ahead and call bs on that one. I group parse under trial conditions and I don't cross 10k most times if ever.

I'm not saying that I do more than that on my healer builds with blockade and class aoe. I'm saying that I've been in normal dungeons where that 10k was more than 50% of group dps, and vets where it's 30+%. You're just underestimating how poor the dps you can get from group finder can be.

InvictusApollo

A healer that provides no synergies to the team is no healer at all. Ele drain, orbs/shards and healing are vital.

Climbatiz

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

I ran into something worse than a spam healer a while back. He was a Templar healer. No shards, no orbs, no ele drain and no DPS. He didn't spam his healing either. He would stand there and throw out a breath of life or healing springs when someone's health dropped past 70% but otherwise he just watched. Said it wasn't his job to do damage or provide resources and no one was dying so he was doing his job.

wow... reading this thread makes me feel like quite the zh1tty healer lol, and i actually thought i was doing a pretty good job, don't really know what half of the stuff you guys mentioned means.. "shards" and "orbs" ?.. well i know there are some skill in Undaunted possibly called Orb something, but i haven't really checked it out

can't say i primarily spam heals, but my main focus has been keeping every1 alive and some dps, and not so much buffing or debuffing, currently i am close to 400 CP and i've read a few guides on Templar Healers on some sites, but nothing like this thread talks about, but also i really don't often dare do hard vet dungeons or just vet dungeons in general, guess i'm mostly looking for easy times hehe

at least from reading this thread i guess if i want to become more adept i should research good healers more hehe

zvavi

Climbatiz wrote: »

at least from reading this thread i guess if i want to become more adept i should research good healers more hehe

Feel free to post questions you have (New thread preferably). A lot of members here, and in-game will be happy to help (In guilds too, I have been personally explaining things to all roles and trying to help out players that lack knowledge for a long time). Try asking a healer to show you the ropes in a discord call (all PC in-game guilds have a discord channel now days).

TheGreatBlackBear

If I'm on my healer or tank and the deeps aren't up to the task I just leave. If I wanted to deal damage I would have entered the dungeon on a DPS.

MartiniDaniels

Climbatiz wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

I ran into something worse than a spam healer a while back. He was a Templar healer. No shards, no orbs, no ele drain and no DPS. He didn't spam his healing either. He would stand there and throw out a breath of life or healing springs when someone's health dropped past 70% but otherwise he just watched. Said it wasn't his job to do damage or provide resources and no one was dying so he was doing his job.

wow... reading this thread makes me feel like quite the zh1tty healer lol, and i actually thought i was doing a pretty good job, don't really know what half of the stuff you guys mentioned means.. "shards" and "orbs" ?.. well i know there are some skill in Undaunted possibly called Orb something, but i haven't really checked it out

can't say i primarily spam heals, but my main focus has been keeping every1 alive and some dps, and not so much buffing or debuffing, currently i am close to 400 CP and i've read a few guides on Templar Healers on some sites, but nothing like this thread talks about, but also i really don't often dare do hard vet dungeons or just vet dungeons in general, guess i'm mostly looking for easy times hehe

at least from reading this thread i guess if i want to become more adept i should research good healers more hehe

Well, it's ok that you don't know something and if people tell you about shards or orbs or combat prayer, you make you own research and put it into your rotation. But when people know about it all and purposefully don't send shards telling that "tank should sustain on his own", "dps should do ok dps without buffs", they are simply ignorant ***.

Matchimus

Just did vet PUG...and the tank says I gotta do more dmg! What is it? Resources or dmg? SPC, combat prayer, purifying light, war horn, elemental drain not enough? Want me to poke poke poke. My poke poke poke contributes nothing compared to my buffs...well surely that's the case? Just becoz the party's health is always looking good doesnt mean I'm taking it easy and should be a DPS. The reason it is that way is becoz Im on the ball and keeping it up there. Cant win. Just cant win.

p00tx

Matchimus wrote: »

Just did vet PUG...and the tank says I gotta do more dmg! What is it? Resources or dmg? SPC, combat prayer, purifying light, war horn, elemental drain not enough? Want me to poke poke poke. My poke poke poke contributes nothing compared to my buffs...well surely that's the case? Just becoz the party's health is always looking good doesnt mean I'm taking it easy and should be a DPS. The reason it is that way is becoz Im on the ball and keeping it up there. Cant win. Just cant win.

You were in a pug group, which means you might have found a tank who has no idea what they're talking about. The only dps a healer needs to be doing is the residual dmg that occurs by laying out Lightning Blockade, Shards, PL/PotL. and light/heavy attacks. Any more than that and you're a dps with off heals. If the tank wants that, they should queue in with one already prepared and not expect the healer to be doing the DD's job.

Inarre

I ran with a 810 healer this weekend who appeared to use a rapid regen, breath of life and heavy attack rotation.

We died repeatedly to the bull before the last boss in VBRF because they refused to bash it... So we said no to doing bloodroot hard mode. They complained about how easy it is until we finally agreed to try it.

After failing miserably we asked if they had drain or combat prayer, and they told us the skills were useless.

Eventually they said don't worry about hard mode obviously the tanks (my husband) and the dps (me, 45k magplar) were @#&*ing USELESS and hardmode was too hard for us.

Still unsure if biggest idiot or best troll ever.

Moral of the story is, pug healers only know rapid regen. Be prepared to cry if you ask them for more information on their play choices.

p00tx

Inarre wrote: »

I ran with a 810 healer this weekend who appeared to use a rapid regen, breath of life and heavy attack rotation.

We died repeatedly to the bull before the last boss in VBRF because they refused to bash it... So we said no to doing bloodroot hard mode. They complained about how easy it is until we finally agreed to try it.

After failing miserably we asked if they had drain or combat prayer, and they told us the skills were useless.

Eventually they said don't worry about hard mode obviously the tanks (my husband) and the dps (me, 45k magplar) were @#&*ing USELESS and hardmode was too hard for us.

Still unsure if biggest idiot or best troll ever.

Moral of the story is, pug healers only know rapid regen. Be prepared to cry if you ask them for more information on their play choices.

Sounds like someone queued up for a carry and then got salty when you guys didn't take the bait. If you catch a healer using BoL in their regular rotation in a vet instance, kick them. You can opt to be kind and explain that it's not a viable spammable, but if they don't listen, they need das boot. There is no reason someone should be queueing for a vet dungeon if they are that inexperienced at their role. That's what normals (ie. learning curve opportunities) are for.

Taleof2Cities

There are two sides of this, @mairwen85:

1. You’re right ... vet dungeon healers should be supporting the group with shards, some DPS, and buffs while healing.

2. On the other hand, using the dungeon finder for DLC dungeons is always “at your own risk”.

FrancisCrawford

I'm far from perfect as a healer. Some of that is because we don't need to perfectly optimize every build for every PUG. A lot is because I can still use the practice. So I tend to keep things similar irrespective of group and dungeon.

Always:

• 1 destro bar, 1 resto bar.
• Damage rotation on the destro bar, plus ...
• ... Elemental Drain, even only I and the tank benefit.
• My current gear set, whether or not perfectly appropriate. Right now that's SPC, Worm (see above re Drain), Earthgore.
• Shards or Orbs, if the character has them, delivered to the center of the fight. I may not bother aiming them at ranged DDs. I need to remember to throw one to the tank between fights.
• Mutagen/Rapid Regeneration, usually Mutagen. (SPC is the only Major Courage set I have.)
• A burst heal and/or a Steadfast Ward morph.
• The class sustain skill if there is one (Chanelled Focus, Netch, etc.)

What I'll adjust most often for the group is how I help DPS. In a weak group, Combat Prayer and (if I'm on a templar) Purifying Light might sit idle, or even get replaced with something like Sweeps. Warhorn might be unused in place of Elemental Rage. Etc.

AcadianPaladin

The only character I pug on is my healer - she is my 'main', healers are 'reactive' so pugs are good practice, and she has the shorter queue time that comes with healing. So I don't know what other pug healers do since I'm always the healer in pugs. Lol. That said, mine absolutely provides shards pretty liberally.

Let me also say that I prefer pugs to guild/friends groups because I don't want the social obligations. I want to run dungeons when/if I feel like it but if I don't feel like it I don't want to be asked or bothered by others. It would be selfish of me to ask others when I want to run dungeons but say no when I don't feel like it (which is most of the time). I find pugs an elegant, no obligation solution. Besides, they are like a box of chocolates - you never know what you're gonna get.

So, as a pug healer, she slots her skills accordingly. No surprise that she slots EleDrain, Lightning Blockade, Reflective Light (or Purifying light), Extended Ritual, Channel Focus, Mutagen, Springs and BoL.

Where the 'pug healer' shows is that she slots Sweeps and does not slot Combat Prayer. Sweeps carries the day when she ends up with weak dd's or a fake tank. Pugs do not have the positional discipline nor level of dps to justify Combat Prayer. For similar reasons, she also double slots a damage ultimate (Meteor for the damage and passives instead of warhorn).

TLDR: Yup, I agree with OP and my healer provides shards.

mairwen85

Someone said further up the thread that the healer role should be renamed 'support', while I don't 100% disagree, I think conceptually healers are a pure utility role. As I said, providing resources is vital to efficency, all buffs and debuffs, perfect utility to further smoothen up the run - - that's saying nothing for other aspects and avenues healers can explore (e.g. Crushing shock, barrier, etc.). All bars are resources, health, magicka, stamina, and keeping those in reasonable scope is proactive healing (weaker enemies, less damage taken, less death, more damage done, more resistance, and so on).

Most definitely the most dynamic role in group content too, easily switching out skills for extra dps, or even situational tanking (inner fire) - - but, again, I'm not expecting all of that from every player. I agree that 'young' healers may only have basic heals, and maybe prefer to spent points on heals rather than buffs or out of class/concept skills early on, but the basics for a vet content healer (meaning healer is beyond that inception phase) is group resource management (again, health is just another resource). Keeping group resource pools in a happy state minimizes reactive healing making the healers job easier (along with everyone else').

Hotdog_23

On my Templar I run Restoring Aura instead of ele drain and I throw shards but I rarely hear anyone using them. I generally try to throw a few after the fight as we go to the next area to make sure everyone has a chance to get one and fill resource's but have stopped doing that for the most part as no one was using them.

MLGProPlayer

Browiseth wrote: »

frankly I agree with your healer. if your build can't sustain itself on its own, it's a bad build for pugs

don't follow the route of blaming your build's weaknesses on others, it's something that kills this game's community

No half decent build can self-sustain. Self-sustained builds deal no damage.

Having said that, you can just heavy attack to get resources back. It would be nice if the healer did something, but it's a PUG so you shouldn't expect it.

p00tx

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

On my Templar I run Restoring Aura instead of ele drain and I throw shards but I rarely hear anyone using them. I generally try to throw a few after the fight as we go to the next area to make sure everyone has a chance to get one and fill resource's but have stopped doing that for the most part as no one was using them.

Ele drain is a far more powerful debuff and unlike RA, doesn't have a nasty habit of serving as a soft AoE taunt. It's worth it to run it instead. Shards add to the overall dmg while also providing resources and proccing your Burning Light passive. It's worth it to throw them whether they get used or not.

Climbatiz

what's all the hate with Breath Of Life? quite like using that skill for heals, it does around 12000 heal + 4000 extra char, can spam that if people are under attack from heavy dmg flaming pits and such and i don't need to be positioned in their direction, can just cast it and it heals those who need it the most, it doesn't use that much mana and so can be spammed

some1 once said i should use Healing Springs instead since it gives mana back, but it doesn't have a high enough initial heal and only works best if players are clustered together

still not that familiar with all the terms used here but i do cast Shards often, it uses very little mana so casting it before DOT timer runs out its no problem, i did also since reading this thread aquire the undaunted Orb's skill, but if i'm already using Shards why cast Orb (not unless i take the heal morph)

still need to check out Combat Prayer, but a skill i don't use that often but is quite good is the Psijic Mend Wounds, it uses little mana and light attacks heal for 17k health over 20sec and heavy 7000 every 1 sec while channeled, plus the Mend Spirit morph gives those you cast on Major Resolve and Major Ward (lasts 20sec), i believe the skill uses 1700 mana, so it can be cast quite a few times, just gotta remember to untoggle it if you need to recover mana with normal attacks

plus i guess i should invest in Ele Drain, haven't been using that yet, but from what i read here it's something people want

kargen27

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

In ESO, a healers role is to help their group manage resources, which includes but is not limited to the health bar. Good healers know that, bad healers whine about DPS in pug groups...

That isn't what I whine about. I whine about a tank that won't pick up the trash pestering me even when I run the trash to him.

I don't mind the archers and things like that hitting my healer but when I get two evil doers on me that upper cut me and otherwise stun me I would rather have the tank deal with them for a while. Kinda cracks me up when in Hel Ra the tank grabs one gargoyle (the fight after group gets back together again) and thinks he is doing his job. Makes me want to not send him four orbs each rotation.

MartiniDaniels

I met another extravagant example of pug healer today. So it was vMoS pledge and second boss with those spriggans and seasons of year mechanic which is usually ignored if group dps is high enough. This time group dps was so-so, so we needed to use that mechanic, which I actually enjoy. After first wipe, i asked healer why he didn't to pickup synergy and take place to survive and he answered that he's job is healing and not picking synergies, it's tank's and deeps job to perform mechanics. Oh my..

zaria

Matchimus wrote: »

Just did vet PUG...and the tank says I gotta do more dmg! What is it? Resources or dmg? SPC, combat prayer, purifying light, war horn, elemental drain not enough? Want me to poke poke poke. My poke poke poke contributes nothing compared to my buffs...well surely that's the case? Just becoz the party's health is always looking good doesnt mean I'm taking it easy and should be a DPS. The reason it is that way is becoz Im on the ball and keeping it up there. Cant win. Just cant win.

I tend to get complains for staying to much on the destro staff especially during trash fights. Mutagen x2 before fight start, then combat prayer, if group tend take a lot of damage I drop spring. swap Shard, wall, drain if any sort of boss, if we takes damage swap and spring or just BoL, now its time for destructive reach, can also use sweep to help clear trash or do damage if dps is low.
Refresh combat prayer, remember this is also an AoE heal so it can be smart to cast early rather than other heals.
Shards and wall, repeat, On bosses it depend on how much damage group takes and if its high damage mechanic, no danger of casting healing spring just before mechanic.

exeeter702

Frankly, if you need dedicated resource utility for 4 man content, your build is likely unoptimized. Most encounters in vet 4 mans are short affairs and if dps is on point, bosses generally dont last long enough to result in a resource strain. If dps is subpar, no amount of resource utility is going to help them.

Why would i sacrifice my own ability to contribute 20k dps while keeping a group alive by slotting trial levels of utility so xXDarthvader420Xx can continue doing 12k dps?.

Healer setups for trials are the way they are because trial encounters are systematically designed to push builds to the limit. Fights are long, making resource sustain critical, and healers need much more HPS throughput which results is shorter windows of damage opportunities so hevay healing and resource utility are priorty 1.

A scenario where dps NEED resource utiltiy in a 4 man vet is a scenario where the healer is FAR better off just contributing more dps themselves.

exeeter702

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

TLDR: If you queue as a healer and dont slot skills (orbs, shards, etc.) that help a group manage their resources, you are bad at your job.

If you queue as a dps and cant sustain a stamina or magicka bar in 4 man dungeon boss fights, you are bad at your job.

JobooAGS

Whenever I heal in dungeons, I try my best to provide springs for heals, combat prayer for non nbs/wardens, major courage (olo), shards for tank, ORBS FOR DPS SUSTAIN AND HEALS, shock blockade and enchant for off balance, IA for minor vulernability, extended ritual for synergy for dps and tank to purge and to get the 4% resources and ele drain for mag sustain for group including tank, who needs mag for gdb, talons, chains, iggy shield, etc.

Jhalin

exeeter702 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

TLDR: If you queue as a healer and dont slot skills (orbs, shards, etc.) that help a group manage their resources, you are bad at your job.

If you queue as a dps and cant sustain a stamina or magicka bar in 4 man dungeon boss fights, you are bad at your job.

Nope, their job is to dps and do mechanics that keep the group from wiping. Them believing their healer won’t be a deadweight that stands there doing nothing but tossing out useless overheals is not them being bad at their job

rexagamemnon

So what i would look for in a good healer is first and foremost, a team player. A good healer will get to know the crew he is woth whether it is dungeons or trials and ask “hey do you want just heals and dps, or do you want heals and sustain?” A good healer is well rounded with heals, sustain and average dps. When i run my healer, i always ask before i go in a trial if they want me to focus on heals and dps or heals and sustain. You could do all three theoretically but not as effective not having as many actives for each one. As a general purpose i run all three if no one gives me direction on what they need.

exeeter702

Jhalin wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

TLDR: If you queue as a healer and dont slot skills (orbs, shards, etc.) that help a group manage their resources, you are bad at your job.

If you queue as a dps and cant sustain a stamina or magicka bar in 4 man dungeon boss fights, you are bad at your job.

Nope, their job is to dps and do mechanics that keep the group from wiping. Them believing their healer won’t be a deadweight that stands there doing nothing but tossing out useless overheals is not them being bad at their job

Nope. Deadweight is a dps that cant sustain themselves over the course of short 4 man dungeon boss fights while simultaneously doing under 12k. Strong healers know better than to help terrible dps continue doing terrible dps via throwing them mag or stam every 30 seconds when they could instead increase the overall group damage and clear time with their own damage output. No one is disputing trashy healers are those that overheal and do little else.

What is it with dps roles feeling they get to dictate the standards in a group? When you are completely out of gas, i expect that boss to be under 5 percent, sorry. If its not, that tells me that i need to just make up the overall discrepancy myself. If a vet 4 man starts and the dps ask me for orbs or shards so there is ABSOLUTE minimal downtime between trash, bosses and sprinting between because they are confident in their performance, i will indulge. If dps start demanding resource utility because some idiot on YouTube told them that is what healers need to do regardless of content, and proceed to take 5 minutes on bloodspawn, you can sit in the corner for all i care.