Nightblade Healer Guide

Iskiab

brandonv516 wrote: »

Take a look at this set:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462411/cyrodiils-crest-how-do-you-feel-about-this-set#latest

So far I'm loving it with my Transmutation. Not going to do anything for your heals but it will increase your survivability providing a necessary self burst heal we don't have.

And a dead healer is a useless healer.

Looked at it, looks like it could be a good way to go for the tanky kind of NB healer. Transmutation I like but how do you get the 5 piece bonus on people? You’d have to use mutagen or healing springs... or funnel health.

That’s the biggest thing about Templars that makes me jealous. Ritual spreads transmutation like crazy.

So 5 heavy 1 med 1 light combing those two sets? How’s the burst survivability? When I get knocked down now by DKs I barely survive. From full to 20 percent almost every time. Would you block cast with this set?

brandonv516

Iskiab wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Take a look at this set:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462411/cyrodiils-crest-how-do-you-feel-about-this-set#latest

So far I'm loving it with my Transmutation. Not going to do anything for your heals but it will increase your survivability providing a necessary self burst heal we don't have.

And a dead healer is a useless healer.

Looked at it, looks like it could be a good way to go for the tanky kind of NB healer. Transmutation I like but how do you get the 5 piece bonus on people? You’d have to use mutagen or healing springs... or funnel health.

That’s the biggest thing about Templars that makes me jealous. Ritual spreads transmutation like crazy.

So 5 heavy 1 med 1 light combing those two sets? How’s the burst survivability? When I get knocked down now by DKs I barely survive. From full to 20 percent almost every time. Would you block cast with this set?

I personally use Refreshing Path. Provides Major Ward/Resolve, group Major Expedition and is my source of proccing Transmutation for my group. I also use Mutagen on top of this.

~25k resists with 2 protective pieces. I would not hard-block cast ever on a NB though. Just a quick block animation cancel every 5 seconds (or as needed) will get this set's heal to activate.

Are you running Vampire? That might be why DKs are hitting so hard.

Iskiab

Nope, no vampire. Just DK damage increase against knocked down opponents, plus whenever someone’s knocked down by a DK it’s like a signal in a BG death match. It starts a feeding frenzy where everyone tries to get the last hit for the killing blow.

brandonv516

Here's a short clip of the heal in no-CP (BGs):

https://youtu.be/4hQIXzKxCBM

Iskiab

I’ll try it out. I switched to breton; along with protective on a ring and one sp enchant instead of magicka regen. So far so good, healing tool tips are a fair bit higher.

It also looks like rapid regeneration was stealth changed. The tooltip’s a lot higher than mutagen now, and enough that hots can be effective for healing and not just noise lost in the spike damage.

I like rapid regen with healthy offering now instead of shrewd. I replaced healing springs but am not sure if I’m going to leave it as is. I like cleanse too much and want to keep it.

One issue I noticed in my last BG is there was a stamblade following me all match using poison injection. If I ever dropped low health they’d follow up with a snipe and try to finish me off. Really annoying to hear the poison injection sound all the time. Alone it wasn’t even close to a threat, but this was in the middle of pvp healing with lots going on.

Think I might add a poison resistance rune instead of SP. It takes a lot of different BGs and opponents to fine tune so I haven’t decided. Either way if you use rapid regeneration healthy offering is good.

thedude33

Gotta say this is likely my most fun class. Tons of healing, crazy survivability ( you won't die unless not only focused, but they need to be persistent), 3 different CCs and spammed hate tells. 50k health, 30k magic, 15k stam.

Not many people actually realize how much they have been healed. Sometimes they do and you will get a message amazed that they were healed for 100+k in a fight.

Iskiab

50k health? What sets are you running? I prefer more heal cannon and taking risks, makes healing fun. Use plague doctor?

Here are some tricks I like to use:
- run in and ice blockade and use the pbaoe fear if you see the other two teams fighting. Spreads minor maim and hopefully your team mates can kill steal any low health targets
- bait people chasing you. Let your health linger at about 60 percent, the other teams usually get blood lust and forget about defense. Dodge roll, stealth and hit the healing ultimate and then go on offense. Sometimes I get caught and die; but taking risks, being aggressive, and frustrating opponents is what I love about pvp healing.

As an aside, harness magicka is awesome, so glad I switched back to light.

thedude33

Yea I use Plague Doctor and Cyrodil Crest

jhall03

@Iskiab Just curious how much Health do shot for, assuming your resistances are where you want them? I'm theorycrafting a BotS and TBS build to hold me over until I can get a healing monster set, and I'd like to determine a starting point for setting up my glyphs.

Oh, and thanks again for the informative thread. I'm really enjoying the playstyle.

Miriel

jhall03 wrote: »

@Iskiab Just curious how much Health do shot for, assuming your resistances are where you want them? I'm theorycrafting a BotS and TBS build to hold me over until I can get a healing monster set, and I'd like to determine a starting point for setting up my glyphs.

Oh, and thanks again for the informative thread. I'm really enjoying the playstyle.

As @Iskiab mentioned before, you will be hunted and targeted, i say atleast 30k health, and both resits over 20k... or you might not surive a burst ... the other reason for high health, is that the more health you have, the more return you get on your cleanse...

Iskiab

I actually like 25k, but I’ve been playing it for a while. I’d start with more and use a mix of health and magicka glyphs until you know whether you like the playstyle, tri-stats are expensive.

As you get more experienced hitting the best ability becomes second nature, but when starting you’ll want more health so you have a larger margin of error.

There’s also different styles; dark cloak for being more tanky with the mentioned cyrodiil set and maybe pariah. I enjoy fast paced pvp and taking more risks, plus being a heal cannon, so use buffer of the swift and bright throat.

Someone alluded to it, but cleanse is powerful. It’s my most powerful aoe heal in a cyrodiil setting, but it’s crazy expensive so best used on a NB healer because of our sustain. Basicly playing a NB healer is about turning a negative (burst heal costs health instead of magicka) and using it to your advantage through gear and whatnot, plus you can get cloak which is nice.

If you don’t have a healing monster set I’d try engine guardian, I’ve been meaning to test it out but haven’t gotten around to it.

Somnilux

I need to at some point contribute and comment on this thread. I noticed it long before I got off my butt and got my account on here activated (had to request a code.) I've had my own experience with my nightblade healer, most notably becoming my pvp main back around Morrowind. I run however in larger raids (16-24), though I do do smaller groups (4-10) so my character and perspective on balance and play is around those scenarios, it seems the OP is more focused on smaller group content and therefore the tips and advice are just different than what I can say.

I'll probably share some of my own experience, build advice, and commentary in the future if people are interested, as I'm fairly confident Nightblades are the strongest current healing class in pvp after extensive use and raiding with multiple different group comps and group play styles. The versatility, and ability for nightblades to pump out massive burst, and sustained healing while remaining survivable is just unparalleled, while also bringing a different selection of utility to our toolkit that is not traditionally something people consider.

I'll try to read through the full thread and discussion before I add anything however, as I don't want to simply be redundant, but a few key elements you absolutely need to keep in mind:

Healthy Offering procs 'on damage recieved' sets. - This should immediately come to note as its completely unique, and may not be considered when selecting sets. Blood Spawn for example will generate ultimate at a high rate and have a much higher uptime than most sets, since health offering hits every second per stack as a separate damage tick and each has a separate chance to proc the set.

Beyond it being a very very strong heal (if risky and requiring a lot of experience to learn how to use it right), and all the other aspects previously noted in thread, I find this to be something few people even experienced realized is an opportunity and I'm sure there will be someone else out there that comes up with a build utilizing this factor unless the developers decide to adjust this.

Soul Siphon is hands down the strongest healing ultimate in the game, and needs to be considered on any nightblade that isn't actively needing tether's CC. Even on a single target for self survival its a strong heal, it has a tremendously large range with no line of sight or height restrictions, and the major vitality buff it provides synnergizes well with every other healer out there, multiplying all sources of healing. Its a relatively smart fast heal, and nightblade ult is extremely easy to generate, especially on a healer (adding in blood spawn and potion ultimate), so that your uptime on it will be very similar to a warden's trees, and far outpace a templar's rememberence, and do more healing than either of the others. Even if you aren't tuned around healing, its a way for a stamina nightblade to bring utility to a group, or a magblade that isn't being utilized specifically around tether bombs to have a great emergency heal in their back pocket. I've experimented with every other option I have for ultimates, and it remains the strongest no matter the size of group I'm in, to the point I don't utilize my other ultimate slot for anything other than a passive (Temporal Guard, Barrier, Soul Harvest or Ice Comet all provide passive benefits that are valid and can be weighed against one another, but regardless whatever you do choose will almost certainly never get activated except by mistake in heavy lag).

Those are the core of what I need to both reiterate from the OP, and emphasize strongly should be the backbone of what makes us good at our primary role of healing. Everything else is more nuanced and needs a lot more discussion to support why I feel we have the strongest toolkit available among the classes.

Iskiab

Somnilux wrote: »

I need to at some point contribute and comment on this thread. I noticed it long before I got off my butt and got my account on here activated (had to request a code.) I've had my own experience with my nightblade healer, most notably becoming my pvp main back around Morrowind. I run however in larger raids (16-24), though I do do smaller groups (4-10) so my character and perspective on balance and play is around those scenarios, it seems the OP is more focused on smaller group content and therefore the tips and advice are just different than what I can say.

I'll probably share some of my own experience, build advice, and commentary in the future if people are interested, as I'm fairly confident Nightblades are the strongest current healing class in pvp after extensive use and raiding with multiple different group comps and group play styles. The versatility, and ability for nightblades to pump out massive burst, and sustained healing while remaining survivable is just unparalleled, while also bringing a different selection of utility to our toolkit that is not traditionally something people consider.

I'll try to read through the full thread and discussion before I add anything however, as I don't want to simply be redundant, but a few key elements you absolutely need to keep in mind:

Healthy Offering procs 'on damage recieved' sets. - This should immediately come to note as its completely unique, and may not be considered when selecting sets. Blood Spawn for example will generate ultimate at a high rate and have a much higher uptime than most sets, since health offering hits every second per stack as a separate damage tick and each has a separate chance to proc the set.

Beyond it being a very very strong heal (if risky and requiring a lot of experience to learn how to use it right), and all the other aspects previously noted in thread, I find this to be something few people even experienced realized is an opportunity and I'm sure there will be someone else out there that comes up with a build utilizing this factor unless the developers decide to adjust this.

Soul Siphon is hands down the strongest healing ultimate in the game, and needs to be considered on any nightblade that isn't actively needing tether's CC. Even on a single target for self survival its a strong heal, it has a tremendously large range with no line of sight or height restrictions, and the major vitality buff it provides synnergizes well with every other healer out there, multiplying all sources of healing. Its a relatively smart fast heal, and nightblade ult is extremely easy to generate, especially on a healer (adding in blood spawn and potion ultimate), so that your uptime on it will be very similar to a warden's trees, and far outpace a templar's rememberence, and do more healing than either of the others. Even if you aren't tuned around healing, its a way for a stamina nightblade to bring utility to a group, or a magblade that isn't being utilized specifically around tether bombs to have a great emergency heal in their back pocket. I've experimented with every other option I have for ultimates, and it remains the strongest no matter the size of group I'm in, to the point I don't utilize my other ultimate slot for anything other than a passive (Temporal Guard, Barrier, Soul Harvest or Ice Comet all provide passive benefits that are valid and can be weighed against one another, but regardless whatever you do choose will almost certainly never get activated except by mistake in heavy lag).

Those are the core of what I need to both reiterate from the OP, and emphasize strongly should be the backbone of what makes us good at our primary role of healing. Everything else is more nuanced and needs a lot more discussion to support why I feel we have the strongest toolkit available among the classes.

Nice, please do, I believe the same thing. I first wrote a guide because I was sick of people making comments in BGs saying if they had a ‘real healer’ they’d have done better. You know the type, a little insecure so think by trashing others it makes them look good. It was ticking me off so wrote a guide, then some other NBs posted and I made some changes and improved a lot. NBs are strong but require different gear choices then other healers, so as more contribute it can only get better.

I used to break it up between cyrodiil and BGs with my spec but changed it, it is pvp after all. Instead now I show what skills I use in BGs and talk about other skills, people can make their own choices in cyrodiil.

Somnilux

You being a BG healer now makes a lot of sense.

No CP and small scale quick pacing of BGs is a very different beast that CP large scale vivec cyrodiil. (I've dipped into bgs enough to get my MMR rather high on most of my chars, but I wouldn't say I am experienced or opinionated on the balance of BGs). It will change the lense on how I see your commentary and advice however, as I shift my toolkit constantly as it is around group size and my loadout in bgs shifted with certainty.

My biggest wth was your lack of Illustrious Healing/Healing Springs in your primary advice category (when I first read it somr time ago) as its probably the #1 heal for any size cyrodiil group for both its output and efficiency and ability to target precisely over a wide area and the level of tactics it adds) but the smaller environment of bgs, less frequency in which at least 3 targets will be hit by any cast, etc and lack of regen in no CP all means its likely to come off the bar or be reduced in importance.

Iskiab

I used to use healing springs, even in BGs, and I still do in cyrodiil.

I think rapid regeneration was stealth buffed because it’s stronger now then a couple months ago, so for BGs I switch healing springs out for rapid regen. I remember thinking rapid regen/mutagen was useless with the burst in pvp, but now it heals for a little more per tick then refreshing path.

I also only play non-CP. I didn’t see a point in trying the CP campaign until I’m max CP.

Somnilux

My primary setup for your reference:

Stendarr's or Hanu's 3/5 (Hanu's only when theres another stendarr's in group and the other person cant change)
Alteration Mastery
Blood Spawn
Master Restoration Staff (Maelstrom in small groups)

Front bar: Healthy Offering Rapid Regeneration Illustrious Healing Refreshing Path Mass Hysteria Temporal Guard

Back bar: Shadowy Disguise Siphoning Attacks, Efficient Purge Double Take Concealed Weapon Soul Siphon

I'll get to all of this at a later date when I get to my commentary. My build is highly tuned and I adjust it less and less lately.

Seraphayel

This guide disregards the potency of HoTs. They're not very strong alone but they're very strong when you have several of them ticking. That's why Funnel Health is still a great skill for any NB healer, RR/Mutagen is too. And if you have bare space, Refreshing Path adds a third HoT that's constantly ticking. I was thinking about using Mend Wounds too, which offers a 4th very strong HoT. If you're using Symbiosis as Mend Wounds morph you get the healing from the HoTs too which directly counters your health drain from Offering, in the same way as Funnel Health - both of them make you ignore your health drain from Offering entirely. 500/s is not much, 2000-2500/s is.

Iskiab

Somnilux wrote: »

Stendarr's or Hanu's 3/5 (Hanu's only when theres another stendarr's in group and the other person cant change)

Why Stendaar’s Embrace? The set doesn’t look very good to me. Someone did an analysis of the number of debuffs people have in pvp, they wrote a script that kept track in combat. If I remember correctly the answer was 3 in duels, 7 in battlegrounds, 13 in cyrodiil. There were also a lot of debuffs that refresh every second like snares from ground effects.

Cleansing 5 debuffs ever 30 seconds would be one of the worst 5 piece bonus’ because there’s no guarantee you’re cleansing things like major defile.

Seraphayel wrote: »

This guide disregards the potency of HoTs. They're not very strong alone but they're very strong when you have several of them ticking. That's why Funnel Health is still a great skill for any NB healer, RR/Mutagen is too. And if you have bare space, Refreshing Path adds a third HoT that's constantly ticking. I was thinking about using Mend Wounds too, which offers a 4th very strong HoT. If you're using Symbiosis as Mend Wounds morph you get the healing from the HoTs too which directly counters your health drain from Offering, in the same way as Funnel Health - both of them make you ignore your health drain from Offering entirely. 500/s is not much, 2000-2500/s is.

It’s not 2000-2500/s, it’s every two seconds. Hot healing is why I chose the NB class but unfortunately they’re too weak for pvp. I’ve played as a hot healer in every pvp game I’ve played to date, so it’s not an issue of disliking the style.

ESO pvp is more bursty then any other pvp game I’ve played, plus hots feel weaker than in other games as well. Combine the two and why bother?

Dps can go from full health to dead before they’d get two hot ticks. Why cast a hot when you can cast MO once and heal for as much as mutagen heals over 20 seconds? I’ve started using rapid regeneration again for more self healing but I don’t see a point in any of the other abilities.

It’s also a matter of which ability would you remove to slot another hot? Take a look at my BG spec above, I use each of those abilities and in some cases need them.

Symbiosis is okay as a healer but I prefer light attack spamming to help peel reflections for the dps. Your light and heavy attacks with symbiosis also cost magicka while the normal ones are free.

HackTheMinotaur

Nice thread. I used to love my nightblade healer in BGs before they nerfed strife and path. Swallow soul used to give minor vitality which made it worth slotting front bar plus you could easily do 300k damage in a BG with near 1 mil healing. I also ran pariah and necropotence which is probably still viable.

Just wanted to mention cripple is a great utility skill if you have room for it. I played more as a tank-healer with lots of roots and occasionally running in to fear.

Edit: found my gameplay so you can see how I use cripple, ice wall + fear for CC almost as much as I’m healing.

https://youtu.be/4fb6sLRo78s

Somnilux

Iskiab wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

Stendarr's or Hanu's 3/5 (Hanu's only when theres another stendarr's in group and the other person cant change)

Why Stendaar’s Embrace? The set doesn’t look very good to me. Someone did an analysis of the number of debuffs people have in pvp, they wrote a script that kept track in combat. If I remember correctly the answer was 3 in duels, 7 in battlegrounds, 13 in cyrodiil. There were also a lot of debuffs that refresh every second like snares from ground effects.

Cleansing 5 debuffs ever 30 seconds would be one of the worst 5 piece bonus’ because there’s no guarantee you’re cleansing things like major defile.

Its extremely effective in large group cyrodiil combat, which is what I specialize in. Its far far more effective than curse-eater is, and is most effective when you backbar it to be able to control the procs. The cooldown is on the target, and will proc from hots, so when I have rapid regen, illustrious healing, refreshing path and go to soul siphon or purge during an emergency it will fire off on as many targets as it can within 2s of me bar swapping. The rate of purge is the importance, rather than the frequency. In larger raids we have dedicated purgers, but they will get bogged down, healers will get bogged down during bombs and even when I get CCed, so long as I've flopped bars in time my hots will proc it and remove CCs, or remove a bunch of dots to let one of the other healers snag the CC.

It has been one of the single most impactful raid sets and is frequently important in any raid comp. If the raid was smaller than 10, I tend to swap over to trans as its much more likely I'm the only healer or one of two. Stendarr's isn't as good if you double bar it however, or run it on your primary healing bar, as the cooldown is too large and much like Earthgore it's just going to fire off all the time at inopportune/wasted times.

Some basic math, assuming a full 24 group:

24 * 5 /30 = 4 purges/s potential for free.
Purge itself:
6*2=12 purges/s

Its a free equivalent to casting a purge every 3 s, if you double bar it and just look at the basic math. It's worth running over anything else in any group over 6, though I put 1 transmutation on a higher priority than stendarr's.

Everyone went gaga over curse-eater before it got nerfed on PTS and it was only an average of 1 purge/s, it just didn't scale and was too powerful in duels, small man and battlegrounds. Stendarr's scales up with number of targets, and most of its potential is much like the concept of burst healing. Mass amount of purging all at a critical juncture.

brandonv516

Somnilux wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

Stendarr's or Hanu's 3/5 (Hanu's only when theres another stendarr's in group and the other person cant change)

Why Stendaar’s Embrace? The set doesn’t look very good to me. Someone did an analysis of the number of debuffs people have in pvp, they wrote a script that kept track in combat. If I remember correctly the answer was 3 in duels, 7 in battlegrounds, 13 in cyrodiil. There were also a lot of debuffs that refresh every second like snares from ground effects.

Cleansing 5 debuffs ever 30 seconds would be one of the worst 5 piece bonus’ because there’s no guarantee you’re cleansing things like major defile.

Its extremely effective in large group cyrodiil combat, which is what I specialize in. Its far far more effective than curse-eater is, and is most effective when you backbar it to be able to control the procs. The cooldown is on the target, and will proc from hots, so when I have rapid regen, illustrious healing, refreshing path and go to soul siphon or purge during an emergency it will fire off on as many targets as it can within 2s of me bar swapping. The rate of purge is the importance, rather than the frequency. In larger raids we have dedicated purgers, but they will get bogged down, healers will get bogged down during bombs and even when I get CCed, so long as I've flopped bars in time my hots will proc it and remove CCs, or remove a bunch of dots to let one of the other healers snag the CC.

It has been one of the single most impactful raid sets and is frequently important in any raid comp. If the raid was smaller than 10, I tend to swap over to trans as its much more likely I'm the only healer or one of two. Stendarr's isn't as good if you double bar it however, or run it on your primary healing bar, as the cooldown is too large and much like Earthgore it's just going to fire off all the time at inopportune/wasted times.

Some basic math, assuming a full 24 group:

24 * 5 /30 = 4 purges/s potential for free.
Purge itself:
6*2=12 purges/s

Its a free equivalent to casting a purge every 3 s, if you double bar it and just look at the basic math.

Everyone went gaga over curse-eater before it got nerfed on PTS and it was only an average of 1 purge/s, it just didn't scale and was too powerful in duels, small man and battlegrounds. Stendarr's scales up with number of targets, and most of its potential is much like the concept of burst healing. Mass amount of purging all at a critical juncture.

And that's a problem in itself. Stendarr is just terrible for all of those scenarios - good for large scale/zergs.

I had high hopes that they would balance Curse Eater but it's just terrible now for sure.

Iskiab

brandonv516 wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

Stendarr's or Hanu's 3/5 (Hanu's only when theres another stendarr's in group and the other person cant change)

Why Stendaar’s Embrace? The set doesn’t look very good to me. Someone did an analysis of the number of debuffs people have in pvp, they wrote a script that kept track in combat. If I remember correctly the answer was 3 in duels, 7 in battlegrounds, 13 in cyrodiil. There were also a lot of debuffs that refresh every second like snares from ground effects.

Cleansing 5 debuffs ever 30 seconds would be one of the worst 5 piece bonus’ because there’s no guarantee you’re cleansing things like major defile.

Its extremely effective in large group cyrodiil combat, which is what I specialize in. Its far far more effective than curse-eater is, and is most effective when you backbar it to be able to control the procs. The cooldown is on the target, and will proc from hots, so when I have rapid regen, illustrious healing, refreshing path and go to soul siphon or purge during an emergency it will fire off on as many targets as it can within 2s of me bar swapping. The rate of purge is the importance, rather than the frequency. In larger raids we have dedicated purgers, but they will get bogged down, healers will get bogged down during bombs and even when I get CCed, so long as I've flopped bars in time my hots will proc it and remove CCs, or remove a bunch of dots to let one of the other healers snag the CC.

It has been one of the single most impactful raid sets and is frequently important in any raid comp. If the raid was smaller than 10, I tend to swap over to trans as its much more likely I'm the only healer or one of two. Stendarr's isn't as good if you double bar it however, or run it on your primary healing bar, as the cooldown is too large and much like Earthgore it's just going to fire off all the time at inopportune/wasted times.

Some basic math, assuming a full 24 group:

24 * 5 /30 = 4 purges/s potential for free.
Purge itself:
6*2=12 purges/s

Its a free equivalent to casting a purge every 3 s, if you double bar it and just look at the basic math.

Everyone went gaga over curse-eater before it got nerfed on PTS and it was only an average of 1 purge/s, it just didn't scale and was too powerful in duels, small man and battlegrounds. Stendarr's scales up with number of targets, and most of its potential is much like the concept of burst healing. Mass amount of purging all at a critical juncture.

And that's a problem in itself. Stendarr is just terrible for all of those scenarios - good for large scale/zergs.

I had high hopes that they would balance Curse Eater but it's just terrible now for sure.

Yup, everyone thought about their dots and snares being cleansed. It’s like the complaints about cc and snares, people don’t REALLY want them reduced, they want everyone else’s reduced but to keep their own. If they really wanted them reduced there wouldn’t have been so many complaints about that set on PTS.

Joosef_Kivikilpi

Iskiab wrote: »

Changed to nord - oddly a noticed a sustain issue, maybe from a lower magicka pool? Once I get some more skill points I’m going to try vampirism. The struggle for enough skill points to try everything is real - being a master crafter and magblade dps when I want takes a lot of skill points.

Either way I like nord better. Using shrewd offering means you’ll always get the extra ultimate generation. I’d recommend either nord or Breton, survivability is too important so I wouldn’t recommend altmer even though the stam passive is nice. Issue with altmer is the channeled bonus doesn’t synergize with NB.

It's that confirmed that Offering will proc Nord ultimate generation??

Joosef_Kivikilpi

Also, I prefer Gossamer as a healer in PvP open world.

Somnilux

brandonv516 wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

Stendarr's or Hanu's 3/5 (Hanu's only when theres another stendarr's in group and the other person cant change)

Why Stendaar’s Embrace? The set doesn’t look very good to me. Someone did an analysis of the number of debuffs people have in pvp, they wrote a script that kept track in combat. If I remember correctly the answer was 3 in duels, 7 in battlegrounds, 13 in cyrodiil. There were also a lot of debuffs that refresh every second like snares from ground effects.

Cleansing 5 debuffs ever 30 seconds would be one of the worst 5 piece bonus’ because there’s no guarantee you’re cleansing things like major defile.

Its extremely effective in large group cyrodiil combat, which is what I specialize in. Its far far more effective than curse-eater is, and is most effective when you backbar it to be able to control the procs. The cooldown is on the target, and will proc from hots, so when I have rapid regen, illustrious healing, refreshing path and go to soul siphon or purge during an emergency it will fire off on as many targets as it can within 2s of me bar swapping. The rate of purge is the importance, rather than the frequency. In larger raids we have dedicated purgers, but they will get bogged down, healers will get bogged down during bombs and even when I get CCed, so long as I've flopped bars in time my hots will proc it and remove CCs, or remove a bunch of dots to let one of the other healers snag the CC.

It has been one of the single most impactful raid sets and is frequently important in any raid comp. If the raid was smaller than 10, I tend to swap over to trans as its much more likely I'm the only healer or one of two. Stendarr's isn't as good if you double bar it however, or run it on your primary healing bar, as the cooldown is too large and much like Earthgore it's just going to fire off all the time at inopportune/wasted times.

Some basic math, assuming a full 24 group:

24 * 5 /30 = 4 purges/s potential for free.
Purge itself:
6*2=12 purges/s

Its a free equivalent to casting a purge every 3 s, if you double bar it and just look at the basic math.

Everyone went gaga over curse-eater before it got nerfed on PTS and it was only an average of 1 purge/s, it just didn't scale and was too powerful in duels, small man and battlegrounds. Stendarr's scales up with number of targets, and most of its potential is much like the concept of burst healing. Mass amount of purging all at a critical juncture.

And that's a problem in itself. Stendarr is just terrible for all of those scenarios - good for large scale/zergs.

I had high hopes that they would balance Curse Eater but it's just terrible now for sure.

So 'large scale' is 6+ now?

Dueling as a healer is not even relevant to a healer discussion, BGs & less than 6 stendarr's isn't bad it just isn't as extremely powerful. Much like Gossamer, Transmutation, Olorime/SPC or any other similar set, they are balanced around larger groups. Really only Powerful Assault and Meritorious Service are scaled to be fully effective around BGs/4 man, and in those arenas the buff is generally too small to even be considered over a survival set or personal selfish performance set.

Curse Eater's just poor design. 1/s purge and a balanced half regen set bonus is alright I guess, nothing super powerful but kind of meh. But purge is a broken mechanic and undoubtedly supposed to be hard to get and expensive so in large groups where purge is mandatory its way too little compared to other sources and far too strong in solo content due to the cooldown applying to the caster not the target. We saw similar issues surrounding Combat Prayer. When it was like stendarr's where the cooldown was on the target it was frankly overpowered in large group scenarios, but changing the cooldown to the caster without adjusting the size makes it weak. But I suspect if they had scaled the buff up it would have also broken.

Somnilux

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

Also, I prefer Gossamer as a healer in PvP open world.

Most organized groups will prioritize different healing buff sets. There are numerous now but gossamer is one of the stronger due to how powerful major evasion is (one of nightblade healers better tools is double take for a reason). That being said, as of our last testing a few weeks ago it only hits 6 at a time. This means in a full raid you need at least two or three to run it to be able to get decent uptime (one can assume about 1/3rd of the raid will be providing it themselves from shuffle or double take/mirage). Its strongest in cyrodiil, and in situations with many players or when you are stacked up.

Transmutation has bounced around on its target cap. It was 12 a long while back, got silently nerfed to 6 and is back up and now hitting 24 from a single caster. Its undoubtedly the single strongest set effect a healer can bring and should almost always be the priority for the first healer in any raid of any size. Unless you are running in no CP crits will just require you to have one person running it. However diminishing returns on having more than one fire up quickly and theres no telling when ZoS will silently change this.

Stendarr's I have already noted above remains high priority.

There are other buff sets:

Sanctuary (good but extremely short range and reduced multiplicitively by defile)
Worm's Raiment (4% magicka reduction is hard to quantify in its usefulness since when I tested it last it was multiplied by your other sources of magicka cost reduction)
Spell Power Cure/Olorime each with their downsides, but can be somewhat strong at increasing a raid's sustain damage but usually has limited impact in its burst which is what large scale combat prioritizes.
I can't say I like any other sets out there, but there are other options like Healing Mage to look at.

In smaller scale combat though none of these sets bring enough to really justify wearing over selfish sets except Transmutation in CP content, or Gossamer for non NBs.

brandonv516

Somnilux wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

Stendarr's or Hanu's 3/5 (Hanu's only when theres another stendarr's in group and the other person cant change)

Why Stendaar’s Embrace? The set doesn’t look very good to me. Someone did an analysis of the number of debuffs people have in pvp, they wrote a script that kept track in combat. If I remember correctly the answer was 3 in duels, 7 in battlegrounds, 13 in cyrodiil. There were also a lot of debuffs that refresh every second like snares from ground effects.

Cleansing 5 debuffs ever 30 seconds would be one of the worst 5 piece bonus’ because there’s no guarantee you’re cleansing things like major defile.

Its extremely effective in large group cyrodiil combat, which is what I specialize in. Its far far more effective than curse-eater is, and is most effective when you backbar it to be able to control the procs. The cooldown is on the target, and will proc from hots, so when I have rapid regen, illustrious healing, refreshing path and go to soul siphon or purge during an emergency it will fire off on as many targets as it can within 2s of me bar swapping. The rate of purge is the importance, rather than the frequency. In larger raids we have dedicated purgers, but they will get bogged down, healers will get bogged down during bombs and even when I get CCed, so long as I've flopped bars in time my hots will proc it and remove CCs, or remove a bunch of dots to let one of the other healers snag the CC.

It has been one of the single most impactful raid sets and is frequently important in any raid comp. If the raid was smaller than 10, I tend to swap over to trans as its much more likely I'm the only healer or one of two. Stendarr's isn't as good if you double bar it however, or run it on your primary healing bar, as the cooldown is too large and much like Earthgore it's just going to fire off all the time at inopportune/wasted times.

Some basic math, assuming a full 24 group:

24 * 5 /30 = 4 purges/s potential for free.
Purge itself:
6*2=12 purges/s

Its a free equivalent to casting a purge every 3 s, if you double bar it and just look at the basic math.

Everyone went gaga over curse-eater before it got nerfed on PTS and it was only an average of 1 purge/s, it just didn't scale and was too powerful in duels, small man and battlegrounds. Stendarr's scales up with number of targets, and most of its potential is much like the concept of burst healing. Mass amount of purging all at a critical juncture.

And that's a problem in itself. Stendarr is just terrible for all of those scenarios - good for large scale/zergs.

I had high hopes that they would balance Curse Eater but it's just terrible now for sure.

So 'large scale' is 6+ now?

Dueling as a healer is not even relevant to a healer discussion, BGs & less than 6 stendarr's isn't bad it just isn't as extremely powerful. Much like Gossamer, Transmutation, Olorime/SPC or any other similar set, they are balanced around larger groups. Really only Powerful Assault and Meritorious Service are scaled to be fully effective around BGs/4 man, and in those arenas the buff is generally too small to even be considered over a survival set or personal selfish performance set.

Curse Eater's just poor design. 1/s purge and a balanced half regen set bonus is alright I guess, nothing super powerful but kind of meh. But purge is a broken mechanic and undoubtedly supposed to be hard to get and expensive so in large groups where purge is mandatory its way too little compared to other sources and far too strong in solo content due to the cooldown applying to the caster not the target. We saw similar issues surrounding Combat Prayer. When it was like stendarr's where the cooldown was on the target it was frankly overpowered in large group scenarios, but changing the cooldown to the caster without adjusting the size makes it weak. But I suspect if they had scaled the buff up it would have also broken.

No. You discussed math involving a full 24 man group.

Somnilux

brandonv516 wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

Stendarr's or Hanu's 3/5 (Hanu's only when theres another stendarr's in group and the other person cant change)

Why Stendaar’s Embrace? The set doesn’t look very good to me. Someone did an analysis of the number of debuffs people have in pvp, they wrote a script that kept track in combat. If I remember correctly the answer was 3 in duels, 7 in battlegrounds, 13 in cyrodiil. There were also a lot of debuffs that refresh every second like snares from ground effects.

Cleansing 5 debuffs ever 30 seconds would be one of the worst 5 piece bonus’ because there’s no guarantee you’re cleansing things like major defile.

Its extremely effective in large group cyrodiil combat, which is what I specialize in. Its far far more effective than curse-eater is, and is most effective when you backbar it to be able to control the procs. The cooldown is on the target, and will proc from hots, so when I have rapid regen, illustrious healing, refreshing path and go to soul siphon or purge during an emergency it will fire off on as many targets as it can within 2s of me bar swapping. The rate of purge is the importance, rather than the frequency. In larger raids we have dedicated purgers, but they will get bogged down, healers will get bogged down during bombs and even when I get CCed, so long as I've flopped bars in time my hots will proc it and remove CCs, or remove a bunch of dots to let one of the other healers snag the CC.

It has been one of the single most impactful raid sets and is frequently important in any raid comp. If the raid was smaller than 10, I tend to swap over to trans as its much more likely I'm the only healer or one of two. Stendarr's isn't as good if you double bar it however, or run it on your primary healing bar, as the cooldown is too large and much like Earthgore it's just going to fire off all the time at inopportune/wasted times.

Some basic math, assuming a full 24 group:

24 * 5 /30 = 4 purges/s potential for free.
Purge itself:
6*2=12 purges/s

Its a free equivalent to casting a purge every 3 s, if you double bar it and just look at the basic math.

Everyone went gaga over curse-eater before it got nerfed on PTS and it was only an average of 1 purge/s, it just didn't scale and was too powerful in duels, small man and battlegrounds. Stendarr's scales up with number of targets, and most of its potential is much like the concept of burst healing. Mass amount of purging all at a critical juncture.

And that's a problem in itself. Stendarr is just terrible for all of those scenarios - good for large scale/zergs.

I had high hopes that they would balance Curse Eater but it's just terrible now for sure.

So 'large scale' is 6+ now?

Dueling as a healer is not even relevant to a healer discussion, BGs & less than 6 stendarr's isn't bad it just isn't as extremely powerful. Much like Gossamer, Transmutation, Olorime/SPC or any other similar set, they are balanced around larger groups. Really only Powerful Assault and Meritorious Service are scaled to be fully effective around BGs/4 man, and in those arenas the buff is generally too small to even be considered over a survival set or personal selfish performance set.

Curse Eater's just poor design. 1/s purge and a balanced half regen set bonus is alright I guess, nothing super powerful but kind of meh. But purge is a broken mechanic and undoubtedly supposed to be hard to get and expensive so in large groups where purge is mandatory its way too little compared to other sources and far too strong in solo content due to the cooldown applying to the caster not the target. We saw similar issues surrounding Combat Prayer. When it was like stendarr's where the cooldown was on the target it was frankly overpowered in large group scenarios, but changing the cooldown to the caster without adjusting the size makes it weak. But I suspect if they had scaled the buff up it would have also broken.

No. You discussed math involving a full 24 man group.

I also mentioned that in a six person group its still comparable to the old curseeater and still good.

brandonv516

Somnilux wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

Stendarr's or Hanu's 3/5 (Hanu's only when theres another stendarr's in group and the other person cant change)

Why Stendaar’s Embrace? The set doesn’t look very good to me. Someone did an analysis of the number of debuffs people have in pvp, they wrote a script that kept track in combat. If I remember correctly the answer was 3 in duels, 7 in battlegrounds, 13 in cyrodiil. There were also a lot of debuffs that refresh every second like snares from ground effects.

Cleansing 5 debuffs ever 30 seconds would be one of the worst 5 piece bonus’ because there’s no guarantee you’re cleansing things like major defile.

Its extremely effective in large group cyrodiil combat, which is what I specialize in. Its far far more effective than curse-eater is, and is most effective when you backbar it to be able to control the procs. The cooldown is on the target, and will proc from hots, so when I have rapid regen, illustrious healing, refreshing path and go to soul siphon or purge during an emergency it will fire off on as many targets as it can within 2s of me bar swapping. The rate of purge is the importance, rather than the frequency. In larger raids we have dedicated purgers, but they will get bogged down, healers will get bogged down during bombs and even when I get CCed, so long as I've flopped bars in time my hots will proc it and remove CCs, or remove a bunch of dots to let one of the other healers snag the CC.

It has been one of the single most impactful raid sets and is frequently important in any raid comp. If the raid was smaller than 10, I tend to swap over to trans as its much more likely I'm the only healer or one of two. Stendarr's isn't as good if you double bar it however, or run it on your primary healing bar, as the cooldown is too large and much like Earthgore it's just going to fire off all the time at inopportune/wasted times.

Some basic math, assuming a full 24 group:

24 * 5 /30 = 4 purges/s potential for free.
Purge itself:
6*2=12 purges/s

Its a free equivalent to casting a purge every 3 s, if you double bar it and just look at the basic math.

Everyone went gaga over curse-eater before it got nerfed on PTS and it was only an average of 1 purge/s, it just didn't scale and was too powerful in duels, small man and battlegrounds. Stendarr's scales up with number of targets, and most of its potential is much like the concept of burst healing. Mass amount of purging all at a critical juncture.

And that's a problem in itself. Stendarr is just terrible for all of those scenarios - good for large scale/zergs.

I had high hopes that they would balance Curse Eater but it's just terrible now for sure.

So 'large scale' is 6+ now?

Dueling as a healer is not even relevant to a healer discussion, BGs & less than 6 stendarr's isn't bad it just isn't as extremely powerful. Much like Gossamer, Transmutation, Olorime/SPC or any other similar set, they are balanced around larger groups. Really only Powerful Assault and Meritorious Service are scaled to be fully effective around BGs/4 man, and in those arenas the buff is generally too small to even be considered over a survival set or personal selfish performance set.

Curse Eater's just poor design. 1/s purge and a balanced half regen set bonus is alright I guess, nothing super powerful but kind of meh. But purge is a broken mechanic and undoubtedly supposed to be hard to get and expensive so in large groups where purge is mandatory its way too little compared to other sources and far too strong in solo content due to the cooldown applying to the caster not the target. We saw similar issues surrounding Combat Prayer. When it was like stendarr's where the cooldown was on the target it was frankly overpowered in large group scenarios, but changing the cooldown to the caster without adjusting the size makes it weak. But I suspect if they had scaled the buff up it would have also broken.

No. You discussed math involving a full 24 man group.

I also mentioned that in a six person group its still comparable to the old curseeater and still good.

Per you:

Its extremely effective in large group cyrodiil combat, which is what I specialize in

It has been one of the single most impactful raid sets

I'm sorry I just can't be convinced that Stendarr is good anywhere but in a zerg.

There's tons of bad sets that shine in large scale combat though so it doesn't surprise me.

If you like it, that's all that matters.

Somnilux

brandonv516 wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Somnilux wrote: »

Stendarr's or Hanu's 3/5 (Hanu's only when theres another stendarr's in group and the other person cant change)

Why Stendaar’s Embrace? The set doesn’t look very good to me. Someone did an analysis of the number of debuffs people have in pvp, they wrote a script that kept track in combat. If I remember correctly the answer was 3 in duels, 7 in battlegrounds, 13 in cyrodiil. There were also a lot of debuffs that refresh every second like snares from ground effects.

Cleansing 5 debuffs ever 30 seconds would be one of the worst 5 piece bonus’ because there’s no guarantee you’re cleansing things like major defile.

Its extremely effective in large group cyrodiil combat, which is what I specialize in. Its far far more effective than curse-eater is, and is most effective when you backbar it to be able to control the procs. The cooldown is on the target, and will proc from hots, so when I have rapid regen, illustrious healing, refreshing path and go to soul siphon or purge during an emergency it will fire off on as many targets as it can within 2s of me bar swapping. The rate of purge is the importance, rather than the frequency. In larger raids we have dedicated purgers, but they will get bogged down, healers will get bogged down during bombs and even when I get CCed, so long as I've flopped bars in time my hots will proc it and remove CCs, or remove a bunch of dots to let one of the other healers snag the CC.

It has been one of the single most impactful raid sets and is frequently important in any raid comp. If the raid was smaller than 10, I tend to swap over to trans as its much more likely I'm the only healer or one of two. Stendarr's isn't as good if you double bar it however, or run it on your primary healing bar, as the cooldown is too large and much like Earthgore it's just going to fire off all the time at inopportune/wasted times.

Some basic math, assuming a full 24 group:

24 * 5 /30 = 4 purges/s potential for free.
Purge itself:
6*2=12 purges/s

Its a free equivalent to casting a purge every 3 s, if you double bar it and just look at the basic math.

Everyone went gaga over curse-eater before it got nerfed on PTS and it was only an average of 1 purge/s, it just didn't scale and was too powerful in duels, small man and battlegrounds. Stendarr's scales up with number of targets, and most of its potential is much like the concept of burst healing. Mass amount of purging all at a critical juncture.

And that's a problem in itself. Stendarr is just terrible for all of those scenarios - good for large scale/zergs.

I had high hopes that they would balance Curse Eater but it's just terrible now for sure.

So 'large scale' is 6+ now?

Dueling as a healer is not even relevant to a healer discussion, BGs & less than 6 stendarr's isn't bad it just isn't as extremely powerful. Much like Gossamer, Transmutation, Olorime/SPC or any other similar set, they are balanced around larger groups. Really only Powerful Assault and Meritorious Service are scaled to be fully effective around BGs/4 man, and in those arenas the buff is generally too small to even be considered over a survival set or personal selfish performance set.

Curse Eater's just poor design. 1/s purge and a balanced half regen set bonus is alright I guess, nothing super powerful but kind of meh. But purge is a broken mechanic and undoubtedly supposed to be hard to get and expensive so in large groups where purge is mandatory its way too little compared to other sources and far too strong in solo content due to the cooldown applying to the caster not the target. We saw similar issues surrounding Combat Prayer. When it was like stendarr's where the cooldown was on the target it was frankly overpowered in large group scenarios, but changing the cooldown to the caster without adjusting the size makes it weak. But I suspect if they had scaled the buff up it would have also broken.

No. You discussed math involving a full 24 man group.

I also mentioned that in a six person group its still comparable to the old curseeater and still good.

Per you:

Its extremely effective in large group cyrodiil combat, which is what I specialize in

It has been one of the single most impactful raid sets

I'm sorry I just can't be convinced that Stendarr is good anywhere but in a zerg.

There's tons of bad sets that shine in large scale combat though so it doesn't surprise me.

If you like it, that's all that matters.

I'm sorry, it's only you're loss then. Field tested its stronger than Gossamer and only slightly behind transmutation for group impact once you are at least at a full 6.

Mind you it needs to be back barred. If you are double barring it its only going to be worth running in a zerg.