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Balance Concern: For healers after with this update
Tasear
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There is a issue for Sorc and dk healers defensive ultimate. With the change with major buffs being for 12 people this will now push these 2 classes without an effective option to compare. Previously there was option of light's champion or barrier but those were barely on par before now, but the difference will double with the change. Also take note the Sorc class defensive ultimate will only effect 6 allies at a time time compared to other class supportive ultimate that will be at 12.
Please consider balance issues at hand here.
Please consider balance issues at hand here.
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Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorry. What?
Warden, Nightblade, and Templar have major defensive buffs such as major protection attached to ultimate. With the upcoming patch this will now allow it to effect 12 allies at once instead of 6. This creates a disadvantage for other classes as their similar skills aren't attached with a major buff.2 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
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Warden, Nightblade, and Templar have major defensive buffs such as major protection attached to ultimate. With the upcoming patch this will now allow it to effect 12 allies at once instead of 6. This creates a disadvantage for other classes as their similar skills aren't attached with a major buff.
I don't think these changes are going to be as gigantic as you think they are, @Tasear ... have you done testing in a raid environment on PTS yet?
Regardless, if we're going to keep flavor between the classes, some classes are going to have access to major defensive buffs and some are not. Just like some classes don't have access to Major Sorcery.8 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sorry. What?
Warden, Nightblade, and Templar have major defensive buffs such as major protection attached to ultimate. With the upcoming patch this will now allow it to effect 12 allies at once instead of 6. This creates a disadvantage for other classes as their similar skills aren't attached with a major buff.
DK provides AoE Major Defile and Sorcerer provides Major Berserk through a synergy with their ultimates.
Providing defensive buffs on top of these would create an imbalance.2 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »
Warden, Nightblade, and Templar have major defensive buffs such as major protection attached to ultimate. With the upcoming patch this will now allow it to effect 12 allies at once instead of 6. This creates a disadvantage for other classes as their similar skills aren't attached with a major buff.
I don't think these changes are going to be as gigantic as you think they are, @Tasear ... have you done testing in a raid environment on PTS yet?
Regardless, if we're going to keep flavor between the classes, some classes are going to have access to major defensive buffs and some are not. Just like some classes don't have access to Major Sorcery.
The point is the number of allies that can be effected by the two groups is imbalanced.0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »Sorry. What?
Warden, Nightblade, and Templar have major defensive buffs such as major protection attached to ultimate. With the upcoming patch this will now allow it to effect 12 allies at once instead of 6. This creates a disadvantage for other classes as their similar skills aren't attached with a major buff.
DK provides AoE Major Defile and Sorcerer provides Major Berserk through a synergy with their ultimates.
Providing defensive buffs on top of these would create an imbalance.
Major berserk effectives 1 Ally. I am now asking for them to give other classes same defensive buff but make it so they can target same or at least more allies so it can be comparable.
Example let barriat work for 12 alliesEdited by Tasear on January 28, 2019 1:15AM3 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I mean you summon a giant soap bubble that basically removes mechanics and practically permanently stuns anything that can be stunned over it's duration.
I don't see how that isn't strong as-is.0331
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Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »I mean you summon a giant soap bubble that basically removes mechanics and practically permanently stuns anything that can be stunned over it's duration.
I don't see how that isn't strong as-is.
Doesn't actually remove much of anything in pve.3 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »I mean you summon a giant soap bubble that basically removes mechanics and practically permanently stuns anything that can be stunned over it's duration.
I don't see how that isn't strong as-is.
Doesn't actually remove much of anything in pve.
Then that is your actual argument. Not "invalidate nova by giving negate major maim".0331
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Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »I mean you summon a giant soap bubble that basically removes mechanics and practically permanently stuns anything that can be stunned over it's duration.
I don't see how that isn't strong as-is.
Doesn't actually remove much of anything in pve.
Then that is your actual argument. Not "invalidate nova by giving negate major maim".
The argument is number of allies effected between skills will be I'm balance. Sure negate has its issue but what I am talking about us 1 or 2 of these 4 skills need to effect 12 people to help classes of do and sorc ...and maybe nercomancers too.3 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »Sorry. What?
Warden, Nightblade, and Templar have major defensive buffs such as major protection attached to ultimate. With the upcoming patch this will now allow it to effect 12 allies at once instead of 6. This creates a disadvantage for other classes as their similar skills aren't attached with a major buff.
DK provides AoE Major Defile and Sorcerer provides Major Berserk through a synergy with their ultimates.
Providing defensive buffs on top of these would create an imbalance.
Major berserk effectives 1 Ally. I am now asking for them to give other classes same defensive buff but make it so they can target same or at least more allies so it can be comparable.
Example let barriat work for 12 allies
Really 1? Never knew that, seems out of balance for sure.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Let all secondary effects of ultis impact 12 players, including the healing ones. Like the healer morph of negate.6 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Sorry. What?
Warden, Nightblade, and Templar have major defensive buffs such as major protection attached to ultimate. With the upcoming patch this will now allow it to effect 12 allies at once instead of 6. This creates a disadvantage for other classes as their similar skills aren't attached with a major buff.
DK provides AoE Major Defile and Sorcerer provides Major Berserk through a synergy with their ultimates.
Providing defensive buffs on top of these would create an imbalance.
Major berserk effectives 1 Ally. I am now asking for them to give other classes same defensive buff but make it so they can target same or at least more allies so it can be comparable.
Example let barriat work for 12 allies
Really 1? Never knew that, seems out of balance for sure.
Yes, really 1, and the fun part is it’s not even the casting Sorc...
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
Sinolai✭✭✭✭✭Negate really needs some rework as it only affects 8 enemies (in PvE). if there is more than 8 enemies inside the enemeis are instantly freed and granted cc immunity. The ultimate kind of backfires there. You want a strong cc on a Group of enemies and instead you get cc immune Group of enemies.1
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Ozby✭✭✭✭✭Negate really needs some rework as it only affects 8 enemies (in PvE). if there is more than 8 enemies inside the enemeis are instantly freed and granted cc immunity. The ultimate kind of backfires there. You want a strong cc on a Group of enemies and instead you get cc immune Group of enemies.
Gosh that is horrible, I agree it needs fixing.PC NA
Aurora Bravepaw (Healden), Basks in Fire (DKTank), Bran Artlion (Magplar), Brindel Seedthorne (Stamden WW), Brugo Gargak (Stamcro), Casimir Delmar (StamDK), Falco Bastion (Stamsorc), Fus Ro Dah (Stamplar), Gandalff the Gay (Petsorc), Jo-Qinan Betula (Magden), Laveera Hex (Magcro), Raine Whitestag (Stamden), Raised by Bears (Wardentank), Ralak Rotheart (Healcro), Selene Sunshadow MagDK), Shadow Mirage (NBTank), Slythe Rattlebone (Healplar), Ulfnor Dragonslayer (Tankcro).1 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Let all secondary effects of ultis impact 12 players, including the healing ones. Like the healer morph of negate.
Yeah it is utlimate after all0 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are you sure that Veil of Blade, Nova and Sleet Storm's major effect affect 12 players ? Since they all have damage associated with them, they should only affect 6 players (6 enemies for Nova) both on live server and on the PTS. I don't see any change specifically on them either on the patch note.
I don't know if it actually work as intended (aka 6 targets affected), but every class ultimate's major effect should at the moment be on par and nothing should change on the PTS about that.
That doesn't answer to this question though : are ultimates (who are, well, ultimates) secondaries buffs/debuffs' should affect more than 6 targets even with damage or healing associated ? Same, does the personal shield from empowered ward count as an "associated heal" ?0 -
Katinas✭✭✭✭Sorry. What?
Warden, Nightblade, and Templar have major defensive buffs such as major protection attached to ultimate. With the upcoming patch this will now allow it to effect 12 allies at once instead of 6. This creates a disadvantage for other classes as their similar skills aren't attached with a major buff.
A Sorcerer can negate a hundred million thousand NPC negative effects or silence a five million thousand players. Is that not enough?1 -
Sinolai✭✭✭✭✭Sorry. What?
Warden, Nightblade, and Templar have major defensive buffs such as major protection attached to ultimate. With the upcoming patch this will now allow it to effect 12 allies at once instead of 6. This creates a disadvantage for other classes as their similar skills aren't attached with a major buff.
A Sorcerer can negate a hundred million thousand NPC negative effects or silence a five million thousand players. Is that not enough?
Last time I tested, sorcerer could negate 8 NPCs (or was it 6? would make more sense with ZOS logic). If you tried to negate more they all get CC immunity.Edited by Sinolai on January 28, 2019 6:07PM3 -
Typical_T_ReX✭✭✭Not everything needs to be the same that's the point of having more than one character to choose when you start the game. One of the best things about ESO are the differences in classes. I've gone through and made different characters and been able to enjoy the game in a new way because of how different the classes are. This continued dumbing down of the game because X has Y is not the direction the game needs to go. It takes away from what makes this game unique. Not to mention it is very one sided in the way that those classes don't have X like they are just missing something. No they already have unique and interesting ultimates in their place.
Barrier was already nerfed down to what it is for PvP reasons and I would rather not see barrier return to what it was in PvP before-hand with 1 person dropping an ultimate immediately to 12 people. Maybe it's not as effective due to the shields changes now, but regardless I don't want it messed with.
Your suggestions seem very singular in the way they suit your play-style specifically. You should be able to play the way you want to play, but that doesn't mean everyone should have to play the way you want to play. I do not like this idea and think it is poorly thought out knee-jerk reaction to some changes made to other skills.Edited by Typical_T_ReX on January 28, 2019 7:57PM4 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It would be really nice if defensive ultimates like Barrier could hit a full trial group. The same goes for purge. None of these skills are smart about which 6 they hit, so you basically get to flip a coin in whether or not it works as intended. Maybe the 6 person cap could be part of battle spirit if zergs are the issue here.
I’m very happy that Frost Cloak is getting updated to hit 12.
As for Veil and Nova, are you sure that they have not always applied to 12 people? I always thought everyone standing in a Veil was receiving Major Protection. And for Nova the effect is applied to the enemy, so for most boss fights it is only needed on one or a few enemies, while an unlimited number of players take reduced damage.
I’ll agree that Negate is underpowered as a defensive ultimate in PVE. Nearly everything that would be considered dangerous is immune to the stun. So it is effectively a mediocre AoE heal that provides no buffs or debuffs.0 -
ankeor✭✭✭✭✭Yes! Let 1 healer be able to heal and buff the whole group at the same time so we can run trials with only 1 healer.0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »It would be really nice if defensive ultimates like Barrier could hit a full trial group. The same goes for purge. None of these skills are smart about which 6 they hit, so you basically get to flip a coin in whether or not it works as intended. Maybe the 6 person cap could be part of battle spirit if zergs are the issue here.
I’m very happy that Frost Cloak is getting updated to hit 12.
As for Veil and Nova, are you sure that they have not always applied to 12 people? I always thought everyone standing in a Veil was receiving Major Protection. And for Nova the effect is applied to the enemy, so for most boss fights it is only needed on one or a few enemies, while an unlimited number of players take reduced damage.
I’ll agree that Negate is underpowered as a defensive ultimate in PVE. Nearly everything that would be considered dangerous is immune to the stun. So it is effectively a mediocre AoE heal that provides no buffs or debuffs.
It was 6 but would rotate between the entire group. That's why you would sometimes see half raid group fall off because they took to big of a hit.
Hmm there was talk about warden ultimate though hitting only 6 and Nova 12. But either way something is wrong.Edited by Tasear on January 28, 2019 9:39PM0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As long as this is being made consistent then why not just make everything that applies to 6 targets apply to 12.
Playing since beta...0 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »Sorry. What?
Warden, Nightblade, and Templar have major defensive buffs such as major protection attached to ultimate. With the upcoming patch this will now allow it to effect 12 allies at once instead of 6. This creates a disadvantage for other classes as their similar skills aren't attached with a major buff.
DK provides AoE Major Defile and Sorcerer provides Major Berserk through a synergy with their ultimates.
Providing defensive buffs on top of these would create an imbalance.
Major berserk effectives 1 Ally. I am now asking for them to give other classes same defensive buff but make it so they can target same or at least more allies so it can be comparable.
Example let barriat work for 12 allies
You do know why barrier was nerfed to not affect 12, right? You cannot go on forums requesting reverted changes that were put in place for good reasons without thinking it through, please.Edited by DisgracefulMind on January 29, 2019 1:33AMUnfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.3 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DisgracefulMind wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Sorry. What?
Warden, Nightblade, and Templar have major defensive buffs such as major protection attached to ultimate. With the upcoming patch this will now allow it to effect 12 allies at once instead of 6. This creates a disadvantage for other classes as their similar skills aren't attached with a major buff.
DK provides AoE Major Defile and Sorcerer provides Major Berserk through a synergy with their ultimates.
Providing defensive buffs on top of these would create an imbalance.
Major berserk effectives 1 Ally. I am now asking for them to give other classes same defensive buff but make it so they can target same or at least more allies so it can be comparable.
Example let barriat work for 12 allies
You do know why barrier was nerfed to not affect 12, right? You cannot go on forums requesting reverted changes that were put in place for good reasons without thinking it through, please.
why you think it was nerfed? genuinely curious.0 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not going to weigh with an opinion but I think at least ZOS should take a look at what affects 6 or 12 people of all the ultimate’s that have said requirement. On the surface if looks like the number affected by each ultimate is looked at individually and not as part of a large consistent system. No that this a bad way to look at it but it would make it easier if all ultimates would affect 6 or 12 evenly across the board.
Again a t the same time how much of the game is played by groups of 12 vs how much of the game is played solo or in much smaller groups.
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DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Sorry. What?
Warden, Nightblade, and Templar have major defensive buffs such as major protection attached to ultimate. With the upcoming patch this will now allow it to effect 12 allies at once instead of 6. This creates a disadvantage for other classes as their similar skills aren't attached with a major buff.
DK provides AoE Major Defile and Sorcerer provides Major Berserk through a synergy with their ultimates.
Providing defensive buffs on top of these would create an imbalance.
Major berserk effectives 1 Ally. I am now asking for them to give other classes same defensive buff but make it so they can target same or at least more allies so it can be comparable.
Example let barriat work for 12 allies
You do know why barrier was nerfed to not affect 12, right? You cannot go on forums requesting reverted changes that were put in place for good reasons without thinking it through, please.
why you think it was nerfed? genuinely curious.
There is no "think" as to why it was nerfed, it was nerfed because of all the ball groups spamming barriers that hit 12 people at all times. It was broken, and if it came back it'd be horrid again.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.1