Why do pvp ers want all pve/trial stuff nerfed

LordLomax

Why are pvpers constantly wanting pve stuff nerfed like 4 posts on earthgore and Vigor . ? Pvp are the minority of the game if nerfs happen should be part of battle spirit when enter Cyrodiil / battlegrounds.

Taleof2Cities

It’s not exclusive to PvP players ...

The same whining occurs when PvE players don’t want to PvP to get their caltrops/vigor ... or get their gear sets like Spell Strategist.

Or, PvEers want the Cyrodiil map nerfed so they can complete quests and get their skyshards.

TequilaFire

Why do people keep making baiting threads like this?

Katheriah

Nerf the fun!

Juhasow

What excatly got nerfed this time ? a.k.a Show me where bad PvPer touched You

GaunterODim

Dude, thats the wrong approach.

susmitds

As a player, who does both PvE and PvP, I always noticed PvErs don't really care about balance, unless it directly affects them or their main character. You can introduce blatantly broken OP sets, skills and if it helps PvErs, they won't complain and simply consider the new addition as the new standard to measure strength. Numbers are of the greatest importance to PvErs and if something helps them achieve higher ones, they are happy, turning a blind eye to it's affect on balance and the game's overall health, citing the same two reasons - progression and fun.

It does not even have to be top level PvE, if something is changed that affects casual things like farming and general questing in very minor ways, some PvErs will always blame PvPers. Even, that particular change was about something, that was primarily meant for PvP and PvErs just happened used it too.

LeagueTroll

Because some ppl have mentality of ‘this content is too hard for me, nerf everything so others can’t do it either’.

Ofc ppl like me would just say ‘this content is too hard for me, nerf the content so i can do it.’

VaranisArano

Because:
1. ZOS insists on balancing PVP and PVE together, for better or worse.

2. ZOS could use Battle Spirit for stuff like this, and doesn't usually. Most PVPers wouldnt mind if they did, but ZOS has thus far chosen not to for the majority of changes.

3. If you would like your PVE Earthgore balanced for PVE only, the Alliance War skill line would like Vigor, Caltrops, and Warhorn back for PVP only. (You see why nothing in this game is completely exclusive to PVP or PVE anymore?)

Beardimus

Do nerfs in PvE matter? Is anything really that hard anymore with power creep bar a very very small fraction of content.

A broken set in PvP ruins the content for all.

Ri_Khan

It's all a big conspiracy. ZOS actually does these little divisive things to keep the two groups of players at each others' throats instead of ganging up and going after them about performance all the time. <-- (t.f. halo)

MajBludd

I pvp, mainly, and I do not, nor have I asked for any pve content to be nerfed.

generalmyrick

LordLomax wrote: »

Why are pvpers constantly wanting pve stuff nerfed like 4 posts on earthgore and Vigor . ? Pvp are the minority of the game if nerfs happen should be part of battle spirit when enter Cyrodiil / battlegrounds.

Slack

Since when are Vigor and Earthgore Pve-only stuff??

AlienatedGoat

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

It’s not exclusive to PvP players ...

The same whining occurs when PvE players don’t want to PvP to get their caltrops/vigor ... or get their gear sets like Spell Strategist.

Or, PvEers want the Cyrodiil map nerfed so they can complete quests and get their skyshards.

The same whining? Not really.

In PvE, you just get griping about having to PvP to get skills to use in PvE. Don't hear much griping about gear since there are numerous alternative sets to use that are within 1-2% margins of each other.

In PvP, you get endless griping about skills and/or sets being OP and demands for nerfs, even when those skills and/or sets are widely used in PvE and nerfs would negatively impact their use. You also get numerous nerfs of skills and/or sets that result from this, with wanton disregard for their impact in PvE.

It's not the same at all. Neither the whining nor the result. I've never seen ZOS nerf PvP for the sake of PvE.

AlienatedGoat

Beardimus wrote: »

Do nerfs in PvE matter? Is anything really that hard anymore with power creep bar a very very small fraction of content.

A broken set in PvP ruins the content for all.

Hey, that "very very small fraction of content" is what keeps me around and interested.

And yes, nerfs absolutely still matter for that kind of PvE. Especially when they're made with PvP in mind and completely wreck usage in PvE.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

VaranisArano wrote: »

Because:
1. ZOS insists on balancing PVP and PVE together, for better or worse.

This. Since PvP is separate from PvE there is no rational reason to not balance them individually to their environment.

AlienatedGoat

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Because:
1. ZOS insists on balancing PVP and PVE together, for better or worse.

This. Since PvP is separate from PvE there is no rational reason to not balance them individually to their environment.

Yeah, they should be balanced as separate modes.

I stopped hoping for that a long time ago though. ZOS made it pretty clear that they have no interest in doing things the right way, even if it would be a simpler and more efficient use of their time.

Somber97866

I made a post just like this one the other day!:) Ppl getting tired of the lazy b.s. on ZOS's part, if you ask me.

AlienatedGoat

Somber97866 wrote: »

I made a post just like this one the other day!:) Ppl getting tired of the lazy b.s. on ZOS's part, if you ask me.

The thing is that it's actually more work to balance things together. Not only do you have to attempt to balance changes from their inception, but there are almost always unforeseen conflicts between modes that require a second or third balancing pass. And even then, trying to achieve a good shared balance between modes that are very different is ultimately a pipedream.

So really, the real lazy way would be to balance the modes separately.

OrdoHermetica

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

It's not the same at all. Neither the whining nor the result. I've never seen ZOS nerf PvP for the sake of PvE.

Shields. The shield nerf was specifically done for PvE reasons, according to the developers, and disproportionately affected PvPers.

Mr_Walker

susmitds wrote: »

As a player, who does both PvE and PvP, I always noticed PvErs don't really care about balance, unless it directly affects them or their main character. You can introduce blatantly broken OP sets, skills and if it helps PvErs, they won't complain and simply consider the new addition as the new standard to measure strength. Numbers are of the greatest importance to PvErs and if something helps them achieve higher ones, they are happy, turning a blind eye to it's affect on balance and the game's overall health, citing the same two reasons - progression and fun.

It does not even have to be top level PvE, if something is changed that affects casual things like farming and general questing in very minor ways, some PvErs will always blame PvPers. Even, that particular change was about something, that was primarily meant for PvP and PvErs just happened used it too.

As a player, who does both PvE and PvP, I've always noticed that PvPers demand the most recent thing in their death recap be nerfed, and screw everyone else.

PvE and PvP need to be balanced separately. It's the only way.

AlienatedGoat

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

It's not the same at all. Neither the whining nor the result. I've never seen ZOS nerf PvP for the sake of PvE.

Shields. The shield nerf was specifically done for PvE reasons, according to the developers, and disproportionately affected PvPers.

Except it was never confirmed that the shields nerf was done only because of PvE, and shields were also heavily nerfed for PvP reasons ages ago. Those nerfs would still cancel out.

Girl_Number8

LordLomax wrote: »

Why are pvpers constantly wanting pve stuff nerfed like 4 posts on earthgore and Vigor . ? Pvp are the minority of the game if nerfs happen should be part of battle spirit when enter Cyrodiil / battlegrounds.

It is not most PvP players just the snowflakes that over exaggerate issues and think that everything that killed them or they can't kill should be nerfed. The majority of PvP players that play know these are not an issue because we took the time to learn how to properly theory craft PvP builds and learned the skills needed in PvP overtime which is part of the fun. Now there are players that haven't done any of this much less understand the basics of PvP and are more toxic then any proc set out there. With their whining for instant gratification without ever bothering to put in the minimal amount of effort to begin with.

Coggo

Err we don't. Stop with the generalising.

KhajiitFelix

TequilaFire wrote: »

Why do people keep making baiting threads like this?

That's no bait, @TequilaFire .

BrokenGameMechanics

Yea, your premise is broken and of no value whatsoever. One way to think about it, and I'm not saying it is correct , is that balancing PvP is REALLY HARD. And when a PVP balance change occurs it can spill over into the PVE area. But there is hope as relatively it is much easier (still hard) to re-balance PVE.

e.g. If Vigor were to be adjusted to bring PVP back in balance by 15% AND the Vigor change impacted trial groups it would be relatively trivial to adjust the dungeon boss hit damage accordingly.

You can almost picture it at the database level. 'select all trial bosses and mini-bosses, update damage output to be 15% less'. Done. Yea I know it is not that easy ... maybe it would be.

So it is more of balance at the PVP level, then tweak accordingly, if needed at the PVE level.

Stebarnz

The entire game should be balanced around pvp because to balance pve its very easy.
Give mob more health or resist. pve doesn't matter it is very very easy, you can run it naked or bis'd out, it literally doesn't matter.
You can give pve crowd massive broke sets and its like 'great let me roll x build and I can crush this boring content over and over and over'.
The only place you should focus on balance is in pvp.
Pve needs role clarification more than balance.

MakeMeUhSamich

Is this a nerf Sorc thread?

#BuffSorcs

Edaphon

It's almost as if balance matters in PvP.
Crazy, huh?

OrdoHermetica

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

It's not the same at all. Neither the whining nor the result. I've never seen ZOS nerf PvP for the sake of PvE.

Shields. The shield nerf was specifically done for PvE reasons, according to the developers, and disproportionately affected PvPers.

Except it was never confirmed that the shields nerf was done only because of PvE, and shields were also heavily nerfed for PvP reasons ages ago. Those nerfs would still cancel out.

The reason for the shield nerfs in the developers' own words, stated in the patch notes, the class rep meeting notes, and the PTS feedback threads, was to make healers feel more useful in dungeons and trials. It really, truly was a PvE nerf that just happened to really strongly impact PvPers. Though, yes, long ago before that shields were nerfed for PvP... but that's not really related.

Your point was that PvPers never get nerfed as a result of PvE-focused changes. That's not true; this is an example of it. There have been other more subtle ones throughout the years, such as ability changes, but this is the most obvious recent one.