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bleeds are too strong.

  • Wuuffyy
    Wuuffyy
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    People are ridiculous. When you refuse to adapt... call for nerfs and don’t worry about getting better.
    Wuuffyy,
    ESO player since 2014
    -PM for questions
  • Chrlynsch
    Chrlynsch
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    Change it so bleeds do less damage as time goes on.

    100% 80% 60% 40% 20%

    This will make it so bleed builds will have to reapply their bleeds frequent in order to maxamize the bleed damage.
    Caius
    Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
    PC NA
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    voldran wrote: »
    I have always wondered how can you get that much bleed damage in heavy armor.

    Because you don't need penetration when using bleeds, just weapon damage, meaning sets like furry, ravager, seventh legion are your best friends. It is so bad because unlike oblivion damage bleeds can be buffed by things like CPs, major and minor buffs, including critical damage while also ignoring totally armor rating and mist form damage reduction leading to situation when 1 bleed tick can deal even 2,5k damage.

    The problem with bleeds is that it's meta when it goes to dealing damage vs everyone. Theoretically light/medium armor builds should have enough pressure to counter bleed build but in practice it looks like this:
    You get applied 2-3 bleeds and then your opponent goes into defensive mode meaning cloaking, roll dodging, blocking etc. whenever they get pressured. This is really bad.
    On top of that usually you will see spin2win and other casual friendly tactics.
    Edited by Mayrael on February 18, 2019 7:01AM
    Say no to Toxic Casuals!
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.


    "Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge
  • Stibbons
    Stibbons
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    Aply bleeds and mainly block or dodgeroll. Meta.
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    People are ridiculous. When you refuse to adapt... call for nerfs and don’t worry about getting better.

    Scrubs are ridiculous. When you defend broken mechanic just because you like to feel strong. You're not. There are people who can literally rip you apart without using proc sets, bleeds, spin2win etc. those people get respect. If you build around bleeds + spin2win, you deserve nothing but a laugh.
    Edited by Mayrael on February 18, 2019 4:21PM
    Say no to Toxic Casuals!
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.


    "Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    People are ridiculous. When you refuse to adapt... call for nerfs and don’t worry about getting better.

    Scrubs are ridiculous. When you defend broken mechanic just because you like to feel strong. You're not. There are people who can literally rip you apart without using proc sets, bleeds, spin2win etc. those people get respect. If you build around bleeds + spin2win, you deserve nothing but a laugh.

    lol respect in a mmo pvp.
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    People are ridiculous. When you refuse to adapt... call for nerfs and don’t worry about getting better.

    Scrubs are ridiculous. When you defend broken mechanic just because you like to feel strong. You're not. There are people who can literally rip you apart without using proc sets, bleeds, spin2win etc. those people get respect. If you build around bleeds + spin2win, you deserve nothing but a laugh.

    lol respect in a mmo pvp.

    Believe me or not, but when you face worthy opponent most of the time it ends with a friendly chat. Yes it's not common but so are those players, even today we had a nice fight with a sorc, when someone interrupted us we waited till we handle the trespassers and then we fought again. It ended with a draw because lags was so unbearable that it was pointless to fight any further. "Gf, thanks for fair play" and move along. We can respect eachother, WE SHOULD respect eachother but sometimes it's very hard.
    Say no to Toxic Casuals!
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.


    "Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge
  • GallantGuardian
    GallantGuardian
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    Everything should be taken out of pvp and only be allowed to slug fest
  • Twohothardware
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    already made a suggestion on how to fix in another thread about this problem.

    Rework Invigorating trait to give bleedresistance.
    this should be according to the armor type, Heavy armor the least resistance, medium inbetwwen, and light armor the best bleed resistance.

    It should be that light armor may think about dropping 1 or 2 impen pieces for 1 or 2 bleed resistance pieces.

    Light armor should definitely not have the best bleed resistance if it's going to be weighted. We already have a problem in PvP with everyone running light or medium armor for the damage and then getting 25k+ resistances through protective jewelry, Pirate Skeleton/Mighty Chudan, sets like Armor Master or Pariah, ect.

    Heavy armor actually needs to be slightly buffed in resistance or sustain because Magicka characters especially have almost entirely stopped running it due to how you can get high resistances in other ways while keeping the damage bonuses of light/medium. It is just a couple of overperforming heavy armor sets like Seventh Legion that need their damage bonuses lowered.

    Heavy should offer noticeably better survivability which includes bleed resistance, and the other armors the best damage. What they could do for light/medium though is give increased snare reduction because everyone is complaining about how PvP is so slow after the nerfs to Major Expedition.
    Edited by Twohothardware on February 19, 2019 4:00AM
  • boaz733
    boaz733
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    nerf it.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    People are ridiculous. When you refuse to adapt... call for nerfs and don’t worry about getting better.

    Scrubs are ridiculous. When you defend broken mechanic just because you like to feel strong. You're not. There are people who can literally rip you apart without using proc sets, bleeds, spin2win etc. those people get respect. If you build around bleeds + spin2win, you deserve nothing but a laugh.

    Have you considerd what incentive we'd have to run DW over 2h if you take away Rending and Tornado? Not every class has the options to choose their weapons freely. And since it seems unlikely that every class will recieve a stam spam or even stam dmg class skills at all, that is something we have to take into account.

    We're already strongly pushed into running 2h for it's utility. If you kill DW's finisher and DoT, build variety won't increase either. I'm not saying the free bleeds are fine, nor do I think Tornado is either. But that shouldn't mean to nerf everything that is good. Rendings without arena weapons isn't so over the top. Nerfing the base means the playstyle becomes unviable for all those who don't use those weapons.

    I'm fine with working on the free proc bleed procs and making Tornado conal or it's radius smaller tho. Or even turning rending's bleed component in an oridnary DoT as long as it's damage get changed accordingly.
  • voldran
    voldran
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    voldran wrote: »
    I have always wondered how can you get that much bleed damage in heavy armor.

    Because you don't need penetration when using bleeds, just weapon damage, meaning sets like furry, ravager, seventh legion are your best friends. It is so bad because unlike oblivion damage bleeds can be buffed by things like CPs, major and minor buffs, including critical damage while also ignoring totally armor rating and mist form damage reduction leading to situation when 1 bleed tick can deal even 2,5k damage.

    The problem with bleeds is that it's meta when it goes to dealing damage vs everyone. Theoretically light/medium armor builds should have enough pressure to counter bleed build but in practice it looks like this:
    You get applied 2-3 bleeds and then your opponent goes into defensive mode meaning cloaking, roll dodging, blocking etc. whenever they get pressured. This is really bad.
    On top of that usually you will see spin2win and other casual friendly tactics.

    I totally agree mate, I was just wondering in heavy u should not really get penetrated by anything that cause bleed. I mean the chance to get bleed dmg should be reduced in heavy armor.

    eg.
    light -> 80% chance
    medium -> 40-50% chance
    heavy -> 20-30% chance
    Edited by voldran on February 21, 2019 4:46PM
    Sotha PC EU
    Dravron Stormwing - MagSorc || Voldros Nightwing - MagBlade || Zorvo Morningstar - MagPlar || Dracos Nightwing - Mag/Stam DK
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    can this thread get a nerf, I feel like its been up on the front page for months now.
    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • Wuuffyy
    Wuuffyy
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    can this thread get a nerf, I feel like its been up on the front page for months now.

    Agreed. Made by our own nerf vp... buzo I think
    Wuuffyy,
    ESO player since 2014
    -PM for questions
  • boaz733
    boaz733
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    can this thread get a nerf, I feel like its been up on the front page for months now.

    it needs to be heard, it's important that some 1 from the DEV's will take notice and make cancer go away.
  • LuxLunae
    LuxLunae
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    ChunkyCat wrote: »
    If people stopped being so tanky, then ZoS wouldn’t have to find a counter to tankyness!

    WlBqPtw.jpg

    If nbs were not so OP people would not have to put on Heavy Armor...
  • boaz733
    boaz733
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    just like the necromancer
    maybe its time to bring this issue back from the graveyard.
  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
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    boaz733 wrote: »
    just like the necromancer
    maybe its time to bring this issue back from the graveyard.
    Way too early to say if Necromancer is OP or not: the initial PTS version won't be up for another week, and we don't have any official notes yet either.

    'Course, if there aren't big changes to some currently existing skills, the +10% DOT damage passive for Necromancers is going to be a much bigger boon for Stamina than it will be for Magicka. I was rather surprised to see that Necromancers don't really get any single target DOTs, just one ground-based AOE, and a beam that tethers the caster to a corpse and might count as a DOT, as long as you can actually keep the beam touching your target (and given the total lack of mobility for Magicka Necromancers...)

    And of course the last thing we need Stamina builds to have in PvP is more DOT/Bleed damage (unless of course there are some other big changes coming with the patch - it's possible that bleeds are actually getting some nerfs).
  • olsborg
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    They basically nerf all the wrong things. DW enchantments, passive bleed chance from axes but the main problems with bleeds (vDSA weapons and 100% pen is simply too strong) remain. Funny how it's supposed to "counter" tanks, yet it overwhelms almost everything.

    Exactly. The problems with bleeds(wich r strong enough) is vDSA rending slashes bleed.

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    olsborg wrote: »
    They basically nerf all the wrong things. DW enchantments, passive bleed chance from axes but the main problems with bleeds (vDSA weapons and 100% pen is simply too strong) remain. Funny how it's supposed to "counter" tanks, yet it overwhelms almost everything.

    Exactly. The problems with bleeds(wich r strong enough) is vDSA rending slashes bleed.

    Problem was always the %100 pen. The %100 pen is why bleeds overperform in PvP and underperform in PvE. If bleeds were strong regular dots then they could be balanced in both PvP/PvE without the need for all these nerfs. As for master dw, yes its half the reason why bleed builds are so potent but even without that bleeds are still gonna be the strongest dots in PvP.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 9, 2019 7:49PM
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