Earthgore

Vapirko

Also, you know that when "solo" pug players start wearing a set meant for group healers, then it's a carry set, as @Liam12548 's video demonstrates. I've even come across Snipe builds wearing Earthgore, and in that case it's done for literally no other purpose other than giving them a get out of death free card (well thats if they can manage to cloak away while earthgore is on cooldown).

This isn't just a "leet" player hating on people using Earthgore issue. Imagine you have new PvPers coming along who really want to learn how to play and they come up for a 1v1 against someone on their level and they do their fledgling rotation and they're about to win and then all of a sudden their opponent is laying on the ground, out of resources, and gets healed to full. What kind of message does that send? Don't bother learning how to play because sets can save you? This set hardcore caters to people who don't want to learn, and who feel that player skill shouldn't trump set items and class skills.

Kadoin

Liam12548 wrote: »

Earthgore is a hard carry across the entire game. Anyone in this thread defending it is either using it, has someone in their group using it, or doesn't actually have enough experience with all aspects of the game to understand how broken it is.

It's a 0 input set that provides a purge and the same healing as an ultimate, with about the same cooldown as a resto ult or remembrance takes to generate. It is ALWAYS active to negate an ult dump because of this, and with healing ults rotated in the middle of the EG cooldown, makes groups practically unkillable.

This video is a great example of a few different ways earthgore is broken. Stop defending this BS and come up with some positive ways to change it in a manner that will make it require skill to use, or make it do something else entirely.

Also, let's get a rez cooldown and the blessed CP removed from the blue tree while we're at it. Then we'll see how well all these pathetic healers do without multiple things hard carrying them.

https://youtu.be/QA1L0r1XcDM

I think Quick Recovery (healing received) should be the one removed/moved into BLUE CP if any healing bonus was to be touched. Then we can see what happens to all the builds that crutch on high damage and high healing. They'd have to make a decision between damage and healing. Moving Blessed CP elsewhere would be a terrible idea because then every mag build could stack even more healing and damage than before.

Alternatively they could just make CP not affect ANY proc set. But that would make most of the playerbase angry...

React

Kadoin wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Earthgore is a hard carry across the entire game. Anyone in this thread defending it is either using it, has someone in their group using it, or doesn't actually have enough experience with all aspects of the game to understand how broken it is.

It's a 0 input set that provides a purge and the same healing as an ultimate, with about the same cooldown as a resto ult or remembrance takes to generate. It is ALWAYS active to negate an ult dump because of this, and with healing ults rotated in the middle of the EG cooldown, makes groups practically unkillable.

This video is a great example of a few different ways earthgore is broken. Stop defending this BS and come up with some positive ways to change it in a manner that will make it require skill to use, or make it do something else entirely.

Also, let's get a rez cooldown and the blessed CP removed from the blue tree while we're at it. Then we'll see how well all these pathetic healers do without multiple things hard carrying them.

https://youtu.be/QA1L0r1XcDM

I think Quick Recovery (healing received) should be the one removed/moved into BLUE CP if any healing bonus was to be touched. Then we can see what happens to all the builds that crutch on high damage and high healing. They'd have to make a decision between damage and healing. Moving Blessed CP elsewhere would be a terrible idea because then every mag build could stack even more healing and damage than before.

Alternatively they could just make CP not affect ANY proc set. But that would make most of the playerbase angry...

You have no idea what you're talking about. Blessed in the blue cp tree is what allows healers and tanks fully spec into their roles by sacrificing 100% of their damage in favor of blessed and elf born.

Anyone putting cp into quick recovery is gimping themselves mitigation wise. If you're playing some sort of 1vx build or something suitable for fighting outnumbered in SMALL groups, you're better off putting those points towards raising your resistances & crit resist once you've hit benchmark numbers in thick/hardy/ele defender. High damage builds with high healing aren't getting those numbers because of quick recovery, they're getting them from having high damage and high max resources that scale with their healing abilities. Additionally on the stam side they're using things like lingering potions, troll king, arteum food + steed, sources of mending/vitality, etc.

I might also add that it's harder than it ever has been in the history of this game to play a fully damage oriented setup. You're taking more damage than ever from zerglings that are literally just doing the same thing they always have, because zos buffed the f*** out of light attacks and glyphs, and theres so many more things that can proc from those light attacks. Magicka lost ward capacity on high end damage builds, stamina lost dodge chance on high end medium damage builds. Stamina also lost their mobility. All of this just gets even worse when you aren't even rewarded for running full damage because healers and tanks are still completley unkillable because of silly broken mechanics like blessed and earthgore.

Eso in 2019, folks.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Vapirko wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Earthgore is a hard carry across the entire game. Anyone in this thread defending it is either using it, has someone in their group using it, or doesn't actually have enough experience with all aspects of the game to understand how broken it is.

It's a 0 input set that provides a purge and the same healing as an ultimate, with about the same cooldown as a resto ult or remembrance takes to generate. It is ALWAYS active to negate an ult dump because of this, and with healing ults rotated in the middle of the EG cooldown, makes groups practically unkillable.

This video is a great example of a few different ways earthgore is broken. Stop defending this BS and come up with some positive ways to change it in a manner that will make it require skill to use, or make it do something else entirely.

Also, let's get a rez cooldown and the blessed CP removed from the blue tree while we're at it. Then we'll see how well all these pathetic healers do without multiple things hard carrying them.

https://youtu.be/QA1L0r1XcDM

This scenario is painful on a personal level. This *** needs to be hotfixed.

To me watching this clip doesn't really show EG to be strong. You kill ppl twice through the EG proc. What it does show is how frustrating the res mechanic is. Let's not forget that ZoS's current combat design is for players to be carried by sets it's good they are looking into this.

React

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Earthgore is a hard carry across the entire game. Anyone in this thread defending it is either using it, has someone in their group using it, or doesn't actually have enough experience with all aspects of the game to understand how broken it is.

It's a 0 input set that provides a purge and the same healing as an ultimate, with about the same cooldown as a resto ult or remembrance takes to generate. It is ALWAYS active to negate an ult dump because of this, and with healing ults rotated in the middle of the EG cooldown, makes groups practically unkillable.

This video is a great example of a few different ways earthgore is broken. Stop defending this BS and come up with some positive ways to change it in a manner that will make it require skill to use, or make it do something else entirely.

Also, let's get a rez cooldown and the blessed CP removed from the blue tree while we're at it. Then we'll see how well all these pathetic healers do without multiple things hard carrying them.

https://youtu.be/QA1L0r1XcDM

This scenario is painful on a personal level. This *** needs to be hotfixed.

To me watching this clip doesn't really show EG to be strong. You kill ppl twice through the EG proc. What it does show is how frustrating the res mechanic is. Let's not forget that ZoS's current combat design is for players to be carried by sets it's good they are looking into this.

I kill people twice through the earthgore proc because those two healers were practically just standing there doing nothing. That's how broken it is, they can play with one hand on the controller and not even worry about getting wiped. I should also mention I'm running about as much damage as I can and I STILL dont have a prayer at killing those 30k health healers. I have to just pick off the squishy targets whenever possible and then it turns into a game of bash the rez where I spend so much time and resources preventing them from from doing that, that there is almost no chance for me to apply the pressure I need to kill the tankier targets. The rez mechanic needs to be looked at too but earthgore is one of many issues in that same category.

montiferus

Liam12548 wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Earthgore is a hard carry across the entire game. Anyone in this thread defending it is either using it, has someone in their group using it, or doesn't actually have enough experience with all aspects of the game to understand how broken it is.

It's a 0 input set that provides a purge and the same healing as an ultimate, with about the same cooldown as a resto ult or remembrance takes to generate. It is ALWAYS active to negate an ult dump because of this, and with healing ults rotated in the middle of the EG cooldown, makes groups practically unkillable.

This video is a great example of a few different ways earthgore is broken. Stop defending this BS and come up with some positive ways to change it in a manner that will make it require skill to use, or make it do something else entirely.

Also, let's get a rez cooldown and the blessed CP removed from the blue tree while we're at it. Then we'll see how well all these pathetic healers do without multiple things hard carrying them.

https://youtu.be/QA1L0r1XcDM

I think Quick Recovery (healing received) should be the one removed/moved into BLUE CP if any healing bonus was to be touched. Then we can see what happens to all the builds that crutch on high damage and high healing. They'd have to make a decision between damage and healing. Moving Blessed CP elsewhere would be a terrible idea because then every mag build could stack even more healing and damage than before.

Alternatively they could just make CP not affect ANY proc set. But that would make most of the playerbase angry...

You have no idea what you're talking about. Blessed in the blue cp tree is what allows healers and tanks fully spec into their roles by sacrificing 100% of their damage in favor of blessed and elf born.

Anyone putting cp into quick recovery is gimping themselves mitigation wise. If you're playing some sort of 1vx build or something suitable for fighting outnumbered in SMALL groups, you're better off putting those points towards raising your resistances & crit resist once you've hit benchmark numbers in thick/hardy/ele defender. High damage builds with high healing aren't getting those numbers because of quick recovery, they're getting them from having high damage and high max resources that scale with their healing abilities. Additionally on the stam side they're using things like lingering potions, troll king, arteum food + steed, sources of mending/vitality, etc.

I might also add that it's harder than it ever has been in the history of this game to play a fully damage oriented setup. You're taking more damage than ever from zerglings that are literally just doing the same thing they always have, because zos buffed the f*** out of light attacks and glyphs, and theres so many more things that can proc from those light attacks. Magicka lost ward capacity on high end damage builds, stamina lost dodge chance on high end medium damage builds. Stamina also lost their mobility. All of this just gets even worse when you aren't even rewarded for running full damage because healers and tanks are still completley unkillable because of silly broken mechanics like blessed and earthgore.

Eso in 2019, folks.

This pretty much sums it up. EG is way too braindead of a set in its current form.

So you are taking a break from stamplar? How do you like magDK?

Kadoin

Liam12548 wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Earthgore is a hard carry across the entire game. Anyone in this thread defending it is either using it, has someone in their group using it, or doesn't actually have enough experience with all aspects of the game to understand how broken it is.

It's a 0 input set that provides a purge and the same healing as an ultimate, with about the same cooldown as a resto ult or remembrance takes to generate. It is ALWAYS active to negate an ult dump because of this, and with healing ults rotated in the middle of the EG cooldown, makes groups practically unkillable.

This video is a great example of a few different ways earthgore is broken. Stop defending this BS and come up with some positive ways to change it in a manner that will make it require skill to use, or make it do something else entirely.

Also, let's get a rez cooldown and the blessed CP removed from the blue tree while we're at it. Then we'll see how well all these pathetic healers do without multiple things hard carrying them.

https://youtu.be/QA1L0r1XcDM

I think Quick Recovery (healing received) should be the one removed/moved into BLUE CP if any healing bonus was to be touched. Then we can see what happens to all the builds that crutch on high damage and high healing. They'd have to make a decision between damage and healing. Moving Blessed CP elsewhere would be a terrible idea because then every mag build could stack even more healing and damage than before.

Alternatively they could just make CP not affect ANY proc set. But that would make most of the playerbase angry...

You have no idea what you're talking about. Blessed in the blue cp tree is what allows healers and tanks fully spec into their roles by sacrificing 100% of their damage in favor of blessed and elf born.

Anyone putting cp into quick recovery is gimping themselves mitigation wise. If you're playing some sort of 1vx build or something suitable for fighting outnumbered in SMALL groups, you're better off putting those points towards raising your resistances & crit resist once you've hit benchmark numbers in thick/hardy/ele defender. High damage builds with high healing aren't getting those numbers because of quick recovery, they're getting them from having high damage and high max resources that scale with their healing abilities. Additionally on the stam side they're using things like lingering potions, troll king, arteum food + steed, sources of mending/vitality, etc.

I might also add that it's harder than it ever has been in the history of this game to play a fully damage oriented setup. You're taking more damage than ever from zerglings that are literally just doing the same thing they always have, because zos buffed the f*** out of light attacks and glyphs, and theres so many more things that can proc from those light attacks. Magicka lost ward capacity on high end damage builds, stamina lost dodge chance on high end medium damage builds. Stamina also lost their mobility. All of this just gets even worse when you aren't even rewarded for running full damage because healers and tanks are still completley unkillable because of silly broken mechanics like blessed and earthgore.

Eso in 2019, folks.

Actually I have a healer that I use in PvP and sit in breech with it from the healing, so I'm pretty sure I do. But whatever you say. You wouldn't want that star "moved" because it would also nerf builds that depend on massive self-healing to 1vX, esp. the stam ones in heavy. Can't have that now, can we?

Thogard

EG is strong.

Quick Rez Channels are stronger

This game needs resurrection sickness

vamp_emily

Vapirko wrote: »

This isn't just a "leet" player hating on people using Earthgore issue. Imagine you have new PvPers coming along who really want to learn how to play and they come up for a 1v1 against someone on their level and they do their fledgling rotation and they're about to win and then all of a sudden their opponent is laying on the ground, out of resources, and gets healed to full. What kind of message does that send? Don't bother learning how to play because sets can save you? This set hardcore caters to people who don't want to learn, and who feel that player skill shouldn't trump set items and class skills.

When I was new I had no clue on how to play at all. My first game is ESO. I was in PvP wearing all white and green armor. Points all over the place, my entire build was messed up ( even my race ). I died so many times, back then we had tweaked out max CP characters in blackwaters and I had no CP at all.

Did I quit? No.
Did I die often? Yes
Did I cry for nerfs? No.

If a player really wants to learn they could send a message like this instead of crying and hating on PvP builds.

exeeter702

Liam12548 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Earthgore is a hard carry across the entire game. Anyone in this thread defending it is either using it, has someone in their group using it, or doesn't actually have enough experience with all aspects of the game to understand how broken it is.

It's a 0 input set that provides a purge and the same healing as an ultimate, with about the same cooldown as a resto ult or remembrance takes to generate. It is ALWAYS active to negate an ult dump because of this, and with healing ults rotated in the middle of the EG cooldown, makes groups practically unkillable.

This video is a great example of a few different ways earthgore is broken. Stop defending this BS and come up with some positive ways to change it in a manner that will make it require skill to use, or make it do something else entirely.

Also, let's get a rez cooldown and the blessed CP removed from the blue tree while we're at it. Then we'll see how well all these pathetic healers do without multiple things hard carrying them.

https://youtu.be/QA1L0r1XcDM

Lets not pretend there are plenty of experienced players, who realize the strength of the set and dont allow themselves to get caught up in holier than thou moral ethics and instead will not handicap themselves by avoiding a strong set that exists in the game.

People often throw around buzzwords like "crutch set" or "carry set" for bad players, yet they chose to ignore the potency of the set when it is then used by experienced players. And no, "good players dont need the set" is a non starter argument.

EG is very strong, but its not only used by those that need to be carried by it.

I don't care who is using it, why are you deflecting the issue? It's a broken and over performing set that NEEDS to be changed. Anyone using it, regardless of skill level, is experiencing an "earthgore carry".

Im not deflecting anything. Im merely clarifying that its a logical dead end to lump the scrub mentality of willingly avoiding the strongest option available with labeling people who use the strongest options available as being carried by it.

Strong experienced healers existed before Blood Root Forge was added to this game.

Get_Packed

I was in a 4 man group yesterday against 12ishplayers. We set up everything perfect to wipe them, lured out healing ults, positioned them just right, maintained our resources so we could ultibomb them and follow up with more damage. Then boom at least 6 earth gore’s proc while they run around like confused chickens. They should have been wiped but nope half were wearing EG. The set is absolutely ridiculous.

I liked thogards opinion on at least making it a cone or SOMETHING. Its the most brainless pvp carry in the game. Whats the insentive to perform well if you can just type x for group and all run eg?

Get_Packed

vamp_emily wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

This isn't just a "leet" player hating on people using Earthgore issue. Imagine you have new PvPers coming along who really want to learn how to play and they come up for a 1v1 against someone on their level and they do their fledgling rotation and they're about to win and then all of a sudden their opponent is laying on the ground, out of resources, and gets healed to full. What kind of message does that send? Don't bother learning how to play because sets can save you? This set hardcore caters to people who don't want to learn, and who feel that player skill shouldn't trump set items and class skills.

When I was new I had no clue on how to play at all. My first game is ESO. I was in PvP wearing all white and green armor. Points all over the place, my entire guild was messed up ( even my race ). I died so many times, back then we had tweaked out max CP characters in blackwaters and I had no CP at all.

Did I quit? No.
Did I die often? Yes
Did I cry for nerfs? No.

If a player really wants to learn they could send a message like this instead of crying and hating on PvP builds.

Ok i wanna get gud, @vamp_emily i am formally asking you teach me your mastery ways of defeating eg.

exeeter702

Ill repost from the other EG thread.

exeeter702 wrote: »

Nerfing the potency or CD if earthgore wont acheive the same level of "counterplay". As has been mentioned before, the best option imo is to have the effect of earthgore become a massive healing received boost (independant from major and minor vit) for those standing in the rain by YOUR healing spells, wherein the counterplay becomes disabling or pressuring the healer whos earthgore triggers. And the healer has to actually make use and react to their own EG procs to benefit from it fully.

Just a bit of an anecdote here. The other day i got a salt infused hate whisper because my EG procced on a team mate that was being hammered on by 3 players. I noticed my EG triggered so i began spamming healthy offering on him, healing him for 10k a cast along with EG healing him. He survived and i had 7 stacks of offering oblivion dots on me, essentially i commited HARD to keeping him up and at any point in time of they 3 players had a brain cell they would have hard swapped to me who had 7x offering dot running and killed me in a flash. But instead they tunneled and one of them whispered me to remind me how trash i am and how op EG was since it healed that guy through 2 ults and 3 players worth of damage while completely oblivious to the 10k burst heals coming in along side it. People often dont see the other healing that goes on along side EG.

Still i think its a bit too strong, but it should not be nerfed into shear mediocrity like almost every other uninteresting healing monster set in the game. Chokethorn is wack, bogdan is wack and sentinel is wack. Shrug*

vamp_emily

Get_Packed wrote: »

Ok i wanna get gud, @vamp_emily i am formally asking you teach me your mastery ways of defeating eg.

Do you expect to win every 4 v 12 fight? Obviously you needed more players to fight that group.

Tip 1: Never be afraid to ask for help when you need it.

Stratforge

Just jumping in here to say @Liam12548 is obviously correct and that video did bad things to my blood pressure. EG is a carry set for bads and it needs to be removed.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Get_Packed wrote: »

.We set up everything perfect to wipe them

Why didn't you bait out EG then?

Metemsycosis

Liam12548 wrote: »

Earthgore is a hard carry across the entire game. Anyone in this thread defending it is either using it, has someone in their group using it, or doesn't actually have enough experience with all aspects of the game to understand how broken it is.

It's a 0 input set that provides a purge and the same healing as an ultimate, with about the same cooldown as a resto ult or remembrance takes to generate. It is ALWAYS active to negate an ult dump because of this, and with healing ults rotated in the middle of the EG cooldown, makes groups practically unkillable.

This video is a great example of a few different ways earthgore is broken. Stop defending this BS and come up with some positive ways to change it in a manner that will make it require skill to use, or make it do something else entirely.

Also, let's get a rez cooldown and the blessed CP removed from the blue tree while we're at it. Then we'll see how well all these pathetic healers do without multiple things hard carrying them.

https://youtu.be/QA1L0r1XcDM

It's so good on a NB too. I use transmutation and almost exclusively siphoning skills so I can get the resto ult asap. If i play it right earthgore is working between the ults.

Playing against it you realize how op it is tho, because it'll turn you into a xv1er trying to out dps it.

Get_Packed

vamp_emily wrote: »

Get_Packed wrote: »

Ok i wanna get gud, @vamp_emily i am formally asking you teach me your mastery ways of defeating eg.

Do you expect to win every 4 v 12 fight? Obviously you needed more players to fight that group.

Tip 1: Never be afraid to ask for help when you need it.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Get_Packed wrote: »

.We set up everything perfect to wipe them

Why didn't you bait out EG then?

Ahhh zerglings.

Ysbriel

Every single “balance” thread i’ve seen in this forum and in other places is always the same useless nerf cry “i am a great player, nerf this set and everybody who thinks it should be nerf or uses it is a worthless player and whatever argument or use they will say they have for the set shall be dismissed by the aforementioned fact that i am indeed a great player” Quit crying for set nerfs and ask for fixing issues in this game and empowering old dungeon sets that are simply decon and npc vendor fodder.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Get_Packed wrote: »

Ahhh zerglings.

That's cute perhaps you can expand on your thoughts of "setting up everything perfect to wipe them" did it involve various orc chanting and the donning of surf goggles?

Remember I've suggested nerfs to EG but also successfully manage to deal with its current state rather often.

Raammzzaa

That cool down tho...

RighteousBacon

Ysbriel wrote: »

Every single “balance” thread i’ve seen in this forum and in other places is always the same useless nerf cry “i am a great player, nerf this set and everybody who thinks it should be nerf or uses it is a worthless player and whatever argument or use they will say they have for the set shall be dismissed by the aforementioned fact that i am indeed a great player” Quit crying for set nerfs and ask for fixing issues in this game and empowering old dungeon sets that are simply decon and npc vendor fodder.

This set IS an issue in this game. I think the least of our worries rn is that your old dungeon sets aren’t bis. Sure I’d like to see more build variety in this game but I think it’s important to address what’s being used already over what may be a possibility in the future.

Also, idk it you’re siding with those who want earthgore to stay the same, but if you are...provide me with a reason it should remain in the game. I bet you it stems from some sort of “it saves _____ from dying when they made a mistake and/or don’t have proficient off-heals in their build.” If this is the case...idk what else to say

Gilvoth

.

Jules

Just take away its heal.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

It's been nerfed a few times already due to the PVP banter.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Jules wrote: »

Just take away its heal.

So your idea of balancing the set is to make it only remove 1 ground effect if someone is healed and they are below 50% every 30s and nothing else? Why would anyone run this set?

hesobad

Cahooots wrote: »

Well if your group's smaller you shouldn't be able to wipe them anyway bud.

So a big group of terrible players running Earthgore "should" be able to kill a small / medium size group of very good players?

Proc sets should not exist, sets should enhance your build, not play the game for you

Raammzzaa

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Just take away its heal.

So your idea of balancing the set is to make it only remove 1 ground effect if someone is healed and they are below 50% every 30s and nothing else? Why would anyone run this set?

Yes, that’s the op’s whole point, to come onto the forum and cry, whine, and scream for a nerf to earthgore.

Get_Packed

Even Zos acknowledged its a problem. Its pretty much a dead issue at this point.

Jules

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Just take away its heal.

So your idea of balancing the set is to make it only remove 1 ground effect if someone is healed and they are below 50% every 30s and nothing else? Why would anyone run this set?

Sure, taking away the heal might make it too useless. In that case, can take away the heal and increase the frequency it procs (~18-20s perhaps) or loosen up the restrictions on the 50% health proc condition to 75%.