New Racial Passives Comparison

WrathOfInnos

I've been looking into the new racial passives in detail. Following the same methodology used to create them, I've used existing sets and bonuses in the game to assign a set bonus (SB) value to each passive, and a total for each race. For each comparison I scaled the racial bonus relative to set bonus magnitudes and frequency of procs.

Starting with some background information to allow comparison of various bonus types in the game:

Relative Magnitudes of Various Bonus Sources
5-pc set bonus = 2.32 SB (applies to most crafted, overland and dungeon sets, not necessarily trials sets)
Jewelry Trait = 0.80 SB (simple comparison of resources provided from Arcane, Robust, or Healthy)
Jewelry Enchant = 1.33 SB (average of the 1.31 ratio for 169 regen and the 1.35 ratio for 174 weapon or spell damage)
Armor Trait = 0.16 SB (could vary from about 0.14 to 0.18, so took average value)
Armor Enchant = 0.79 SB (simple comparison of resources provided)
Mundus Stone (without divines) = Weapon Trait = 1.84 Set Bonuses (found from Apprentice vs 129 SD, Thief/Precise vs 833 crit, and Sharpened/Lover vs 1487 penetration)

Relative Values of Mixed Resource Bonuses - All of the following options listed have the same value (determined from Trainee set, prismatic enchants, triune trait, Shacklebreaker, found to apply to regen as well by Amber Plasm set and Invigorating trait values)
1 Magicka + 1 Stamina + 1 Health (sometimes 1.1 health)
1.6 Magicka + 1.6 Stamina
2 Magicka
2 Stamina
2.2 Health
Note: mixed magicka and health or mixed stamina and health do not receive any extra for mixed resource bonus like the mixed magicka and stamina or triple bonuses above.

Relative Values of Mixed Damage, Crit, and Penetration Bonuses - Off stat has no beneficial value (based on things like Lover and Thief Mundus, and sets Balorgh, Molag Kena, Clever Alchemist and Mechanical Acuity)
1 Spell Damage = 1 Weapon Damage = 1 Spell Damage + 1 Weapon Damage
1 Spell Crit = 1 Weapon Crit = 1 Spell Crit + 1 Weapon Crit
1 Spell Pen = 1 Physical Pen = 1 Spell Pen + 1 Physical Pen

Comparison of Racial Stat Bonuses given CP Multiplier
Unlike stats from enchants, traits, attributes, and set bonuses, stats from new racial passives do not get the 20% bonus from having at least 300 CP's. This means that for comparison we have to consider all these other sources to be 20% higher than their tooltip values. We will define each standard set bonus as follows:
1 SB = 1096 Max Magicka X 1.2 = 1315
1 SB = 1096 Max Stamina X 1.2 = 1315
1 SB = 1206 Max Health X 1.2 = 1447

Other Standard Set Bonus (SB) Values for Convenient Comparison
129 Weapon Damage
129 Spell Damage
129 Magicka Regen
129 Stamina Regen
1487 Spell Penetration
1487 Physical Penetration
833 Spell Crit (3.8%)
833 Weapon Crit (3.8%)
2% Healing Done
4% Healing Received
2975 Spell Resistance
2975 Physical Resistance


Racial Bonuses

High Elf (Altmer)
- Restore 575 Mag or Stam every 6s. Referenced Bloodthorn's Touch set. 1.34 SB
- 5% damage reduction while casting or channeling. Referenced Vampire's Cloak set and Light of Cyrodiil set. 0.23 SB
- 2000 Max Magicka. 1.52 SB
- 258 Spell Damage. 2.00 SB
- Total: 5.09 SB

Argonian
- 1000 Max Magicka. 0.76 SB
- Restore 3600 Magicka, Stamina, and Health when drinking a potion. Referenced Bloodthorn's Touch set, scaled to Tri-stat restore instead of Bi-stat. 2.25 SB
- 1000 Max Health. 0.69 SB
- 2310 Disease Resistance. Referenced Resist Disease Jewelry Enchant. 0.87 SB
- 4% Healing Done. 2.00 SB
- Total: 6.57 SB

Wood Elf (Bosmer)
- 258 Stamina Regen. 2.00 SB
- 2000 Max Stamina. 1.52 SB
- 2310 Poison Resistance. Referenced Resist Poison Jewelry Enchant. 0.87 SB
- 3m additional stealth detection range. Referenced Way of the Air set. 1.5 set bonuses.
- 20% speed for 3s after roll dodge. Referenced Senche's Bite for scaling to proc condition, and Swift jewelry trait for speed magnitude comparison. 0.9 SB
- Total: 6.80 SB

Breton
- 2000 Max Magicka. 1.52 SB
- 2310 Spell Resistance. 0.78 SB
- 100 Magicka Regen. 0.78 SB
- 7% Magicka Cost Reduction. Referenced Seducer set. 2.03 SB
- Total: 5.11 SB

Dark Elf (Dunmer)
- 1250 Max Magicka and Stamina. Equivalent to 1580 of either Magicka or Stamina. 1.2 SB
- 600 Max Health. 0.41 SB
- 2310 Fire Resistance. Referenced Resist Fire Jewelry Enchant. 0.87 SB
- 258 Weapon and Spell Damage. 2.00 SB
- Total: 4.48

Imperial
- 2000 Max Health. 1.38 SB
- 2000 Max Stamina. 1.52 SB
- 5% Block and Bash cost reduction. Referenced sturdy trait. 0.18 SB
- 15% chance on direct damage to heal for 1750. Referenced Kyne's Kiss set, taking health and stamina to be equivalent strength. 2.51 SB
- Total: 5.59 SB

Khajiit
- 100 Health Regen, 75 Stamina and Magicka Regen. Simplified to 83 tri-regen, or 167 single resource regen. 1.29 SB
- 750 Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina. 1.14 SB
- 8% Weapon and Spell Crit. 2.10 SB
- Reduces stealth detection radius by 5m. Referenced Night Terror set, with larger magnitude but no cost decrease. Approx 1.00 SB.
- Total: 5.53 SB

Nord
- 1500 Max Stamina. 1.14 SB
- 5 Ultimate every 10s when taking damage. Referenced Werewolf Hide set. 1.16 SB
- 1000 Max Health. 0.69 SB
- 2310 Frost Resistance. 0.87 SB
- 3960 Spell and Physical Resistance. Referenced Fortified Brass set. 1.78 SB
- Total: 5.64 SB

Orc
- 500 Max Health. 0.34 SB
- 500 Max Stamina. 0.38 SB
- 4% healing received. 1.00 SB
- Restore 380 health and stamina every 4s on weapon ability. Referenced Witchman set, assuming 3.4 ultimate gen per second. 2.32 SB
- 258 Weapon Damage. 2.00 SB
- 12% Sprint cost reduction and 10% sprint speed. Referenced Fiord's Legacy set. 1.69 SB
- Total: 7.73 SB

Redguard
- 8% reduced weapon ability cost. Referenced Battlefield Acrobat set, with an estimated 40% of stamina abilities being from weapon skill lines. 1.23 SB
- 2000 Max Stamina. 1.52 SB
- Restore 950 Stamina every 5s on direct damage. Referenced Trappings of Invigoration set. Worth 2.95 SB
- Total: 5.70

This is intended as just raw data. I plan for discussion of relative balance in following posts. It is definitely not a simple as just looking at the total SB value, since some bonuses have higher or lower value in different parts of the game (for example, stealth detection is useless in PVE). I'm also open to suggestions for better comparison of each bonus, or further explanation of how I arrived at each of these values. If I had included details of each calculation in this post, it would have been too long to read.

WrathOfInnos

Continuing on, I want to look at the balance of races in combat. At this point I am not considering various roles (that will be next), just removing utility bonuses like speed or stealth. This still includes offensive, defensive, and sustain passives.


All Combat Bonuses

High Elf (Altmer)
- Restore 575 Mag or Stam every 6s. 1.34 SB
- 5% damage reduction while casting or channeling. 0.23 SB
- 2000 Max Magicka. 1.52 SB
- 258 Spell Damage. 2.00 SB
- Total: 5.09 SB

Argonian
- 1000 Max Magicka. 0.76 SB
- Restore 3600 Magicka, Stamina, and Health when drinking a potion. 2.25 SB
- 1000 Max Health. 0.69 SB
- 2310 Disease Resistance. 0.87 SB
- 4% Healing Done. 2.00 SB
- Total: 6.57 SB

Wood Elf (Bosmer)
- 258 Stamina Regen. 2.00 SB
- 2000 Max Stamina. 1.52 SB
- 2310 Poison Resistance. 0.87 SB
- Total: 4.39 SB

Breton
- 2000 Max Magicka. 1.52 SB
- 2310 Spell Resistance. 0.78 SB
- 100 Magicka Regen. 0.78 SB
- 7% Magicka Cost Reduction. 2.03 SB
- Total: 5.11 SB

Dark Elf (Dunmer)
- 1250 Max Magicka and Stamina. Equivalent to 1580 of either Magicka or Stamina. 1.2 SB
- 600 Max Health. 0.41 SB
- 2310 Fire Resistance. 0.87 SB
- 258 Weapon and Spell Damage. 2.00 SB
- Total: 4.48

Imperial
- 2000 Max Health. 1.38 SB
- 2000 Max Stamina. 1.52 SB
- 5% Block and Bash cost reduction. 0.2 SB
- 15% chance on direct damage to heal for 1750. 2.51 SB
- Total: 5.61 SB

Khajiit
- 100 Health Regen, 75 Stamina and Magicka Regen. 1.29 SB
- 750 Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina. 1.14 SB
- 8% Weapon and Spell Crit. 2.10 SB
- Total: 4.53 SB

Nord
- 1500 Max Stamina. 1.14 SB
- 5 Ultimate every 10s when taking damage. 1.16 SB
- 1000 Max Health. 0.69 SB
- 2310 Frost Resistance. 0.87 SB
- 3960 Spell and Physical Resistance. 1.78 SB
- Total: 5.64 SB

Orc
- 500 Max Health. 0.34 SB
- 500 Max Stamina. 0.38 SB
- 4% healing received. 1.00 SB
- Restore 380 health and stamina every 4s on weapon ability. 2.32 SB
- 258 Weapon Damage. 2.00 SB
- Total: 6.04 SB

Redguard
- 8% reduced weapon ability cost. 1.23 SB
- 2000 Max Stamina. 1.52 SB
- Restore 950 Stamina every 5s on direct damage. 2.95 SB
- Total: 5.70


PVE Sustained Magicka Damage

High Elf (Altmer)
- Restore 575 Magicka every 6s. 1.34 SB
- 2000 Max Magicka. 1.52 SB
- 258 Spell Damage. 2.00 SB
- Total: 4.86 SB
Clearly a strong option, possibly the best race for this category, which makes sense from a lore perspective. They don't really excel at any other roles so top sustained magicka DPS is their home.

Argonian
- 1000 Max Magicka. 0.76 SB
- Restore 3600 Magicka when drinking a potion. 1.13 SB
- Total: 1.89 SB
Relatively weak for dealing damage. About half the bonuses of a Breton. Argonians are still being pushed into healing and tanking roles.

Breton
- 2000 Max Magicka. 1.52 SB
- 100 Magicka Regen. 0.78 SB
- 7% Magicka Cost Reduction. 2.03 SB
- Total: 4.33 SB
Seems to be slightly weaker than Altmer for a damage role, even when taking sustain into consideration. However, Breton does get the benefit of spell resistance that was not in this calculation, so they could be better for places with high levels of incoming damage.

Dark Elf (Dunmer)
- 1250 Max Magicka. 0.95 SB
- 258 Spell Damage. 2.00 SB
-Total: 2.95 SB
Probably the most impactful change to racial passives, and the one generating the most negative response from players. Dunmer DPS went from being among the top, to one of the worst. Sustain was never their strong point, so this will be discussed more under the burst damage section.

Khajiit
- 75 Magicka Regen. 0.58 SB
- 750 Max Magicka. 0.57 SB
- 8% Weapon and Spell Crit. 2.10 SB
- Total: 3.25 SB
Although seemlingly receiving fewer set bonuses for sustained magicka DPS, this is also the race that scales the best from trial buffs such as Major Force. If sustain is provided by the group, this could be the new top magicka DPS.


Magicka Burst Damage

High Elf (Altmer)
- 2000 Max Magicka. 1.52 SB
- 258 Spell Damage. 2.00 SB
- Total: 3.52 SB

Argonian
- 1000 Max Magicka. 0.76 SB
- Total: 0.76 SB

Breton
- 2000 Max Magicka. 1.52 SB
- Total: 1.52 SB
Fairly weak for burst damage, slightly weaker than they were previously with the change to max magicka. Other races got better damage bonuses, so Breton is really only appealing for damage in long fights where other races will struggle.

Dark Elf (Dunmer)
- 1250 Max Magicka. 0.95 SB
- 258 Spell Damage. 2.00 SB
-Total: 2.95 SB
Not terrible burst, appears to be better than Breton and around as good as Khajiit. However, it is behind Altmer for burst damage, and has no sustain passives. Dark Elf seems like a poor choice for magicka DPS now, and this is one of the few things I'd like to see change.

Khajiit
- 750 Max Magicka. 0.57 SB
- 8% Weapon and Spell Crit. 2.10 SB
- Total: 2.67 SB
While not great in terms of number of set bonuses, crit scales very well with Templar and Nightblade passives, especially with Major and Minor Force. I think this will be competitive with Altmer for burst, only falling behind if they're lacking resources from group support.


PVE Sustained Stamina Damage

Wood Elf (Bosmer)
- 258 Stamina Regen. 2.00 SB
- 2000 Max Stamina. 1.52 SB
- Total: 3.52 SB
Seems to be a decent, middle of the pack stamina race. The unconditional regen is nice, but they lack weapon damage.

Dark Elf (Dunmer)
- 1250 Max Stamina. 0.95 SB
- 258 Weapon Damage. 2.00 SB
- Total: 2.95
All burst, no sustain. The weapon damage is great since stamina builds get good multipliers on it.

Imperial
- 2000 Max Stamina. 1.52 SB
- Total: 1.52 SB
Not a great stamina race for damage, basically Bosmer damage without any sustain.

Khajiit
- 100 75 Stamina Regen. 0.58 SB
- 750 Max Stamina. 0.57 SB
- 8% Weapon and Spell Crit. 2.10 SB
- Total: 3.25 SB
Very competitive option, with a good mix of passives. Could be the best race in trials, especially for nightblades and templars.

Nord
- 1500 Max Stamina. 1.14 SB
- 5 Ultimate every 10s when taking damage. 1.16 SB
- Total: 2.30 SB
The stamina is just ok, resulting in lower burst damage than Bosmer or Imperial. The ultimate passive is interesting, and should mean about 10-15% more ultimates used over a long fight. I

Orc
- 500 Max Stamina. 0.38 SB
- Restore 380 stamina every 4s on weapon ability. 1.34 SB
- 258 Weapon Damage. 2.00 SB
- Total: 3.73 SB
Nice mix of passives for damage and sustain. Appears to be on par with Khajiit.

Redguard
- 8% reduced weapon ability cost. 1.23 SB
- 2000 Max Stamina. 1.52 SB
- Restore 950 Stamina every 5s on direct damage. 2.95 SB
- Total: 5.70
Master of sustain. Looks like it will synergize best with stam sorc (which relies heavily on weapon skills and gets a good max stamina multiplier).


Stamina Burst Damage

Wood Elf (Bosmer)
- 2000 Max Stamina. 1.52 SB
- Total: 1.52 SB
Fairly weak for burst damage, only really shines when sustain is needed.

Dark Elf (Dunmer)
- 1250 Max Stamina. 0.95 SB
- 258 Weapon Damage. 2.00 SB
- Total: 2.95
One of the top stamina burst races. Could outperform Khajiit in some situations, and undeniably beats Orc for this category.

Imperial
- 2000 Max Stamina. 1.52 SB
- Total: 1.52 SB
Fairly weak for burst damage, only really shines when survivability is needed.

Khajiit
- 750 Max Stamina. 0.57 SB
- 8% Weapon Crit. 2.10 SB
- Total: 2.67 SB
One of the top stamina burst races. Approximately equivalent to Dunmer.

Nord
- 1500 Max Stamina. 1.14 SB
- Total: 1.14 SB
Weak choice for burst. I didn't even include the ulti passive here since I'm assuming ultimate is charged before starting (a quick fight or gank attempt).

Orc
- 500 Max Stamina. 0.38 SB
- 258 Weapon Damage. 2.00 SB
- Total: 2.38 SB
Not a bad choice for burst. Slightly behind Khajiit and Dunmer in this category.

Redguard
- 2000 Max Stamina. 1.52 SB
- Total: 1.52
Fairly weak for burst, no advantages over Bosmer or Imperial.


Tanking Bonuses

High Elf (Altmer)
- Restore 575 Mag or Stam every 6s. 1.34 SB
- 5% damage reduction while casting or channeling. 0.23 SB
- 2000 Max Magicka. 1.52 SB
- Total: 3.09 SB
While the new stamina return could be useful, this is still only a mediocre tanking race. This is fine since Altmer are not a tough race in lore.

Argonian
- 1000 Max Magicka. 0.76 SB
- Restore 3600 Magicka, Stamina, and Health when drinking a potion. 2.25 SB
- 1000 Max Health. 0.69 SB
- 2310 Disease Resistance. 0.87 SB
- Total: 4.57 SB
Although it took some nerfs (which I wouldn't mind seeing reverted), Argonian is still a strong choice for tanking. The tri-stat sustain is a great passive even with its reduced return.

Wood Elf (Bosmer)
- 258 Stamina Regen. 2.00 SB
- 2000 Max Stamina. 1.52 SB
- 2310 Poison Resistance. 0.87 SB
- Total: 4.39 SB
Depending on the tank playstyle, this could be an ok choice. The max stamina always helps, but the regen will often be negated by blocking.

Breton
- 2000 Max Magicka. 1.52 SB
- 2310 Spell Resistance. 0.78 SB
- 100 Magicka Regen. 0.78 SB
- 7% Magicka Cost Reduction. 2.03 SB
- Total: 5.11 SB
Although they lost some spell resistance this patch, the extra sustain should more than make up for it. Bretons are looking like one of the strongest races for tanking now.

Dark Elf (Dunmer)
- 1250 Max Magicka and Stamina. 1.2 SB
- 600 Max Health. 0.41 SB
- 2310 Fire Resistance. 0.87 SB
- Total: 2.48

Imperial
- 2000 Max Health. 1.38 SB
- 2000 Max Stamina. 1.52 SB
- 5% Block and Bash cost reduction. 0.2 SB
- 15% chance on direct damage to heal for 1750. 2.51 SB
- Total: 5.61 SB

Khajiit
- 100 Health Regen, 75 Stamina and Magicka Regen. 1.29 SB
- 750 Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina. 1.14 SB
- Total: 2.43 SB

Nord
- 1500 Max Stamina. 1.14 SB
- 5 Ultimate every 10s when taking damage. 1.16 SB
- 1000 Max Health. 0.69 SB
- 2310 Frost Resistance. 0.87 SB
- 3960 Spell and Physical Resistance. 1.78 SB
- Total: 5.64 SB
Probably the best choice just for the Ultimate passive, especially on a DK tank. All of the other passives synergize well with tanking too. Hard to beat a Nord tank this patch.

Orc
- 500 Max Health. 0.34 SB
- 500 Max Stamina. 0.38 SB
- 4% healing received. 1.00 SB
- Restore 380 health and stamina every 4s on weapon ability. 2.32 SB
- Total: 4.04 SB
Not much in the way of max resourced, but the healing received is helpful. The stamina return can help with blocking, since it is not negated by block like stamina regen.

Redguard
- 8% reduced weapon ability cost. 1.23 SB
- 2000 Max Stamina. 1.52 SB
- Restore 950 Stamina every 5s on direct damage. 2.95 SB
- Total: 5.70
The cost reduction will help stamina sustain when trying to taunt and maim multiple enemies. The 950 stamina every 5s is massive for permablock builds, since it won't be halted when blocking.


Healing Bonuses
Hard to say exactly which bonuses apply to healers. Sometimes more health or resistance is needed, sometimes stamina and stamina regen help (for PotL and/or CoP). In these cases they are hybrid enough I would reference the All Combat section above. For the following data, I only included passives that are universally helpful for healers in any content.

High Elf (Altmer)
- Restore 575 Magicka every 6s. 1.34 SB
- 2000 Max Magicka. 1.52 SB
- 258 Spell Damage. 2.00 SB
- Total: 4.86 SB
A very strong choice for healing now. The spell damage affects healing magnitude, making it better than the previous elemental damage bonus. The new regen passive is also good, although its tough to use a class skill that often while healing.

Argonian
- 1000 Max Magicka. 0.76 SB
- Restore 3600 Magicka when drinking a potion. 1.13 SB
- 4% Healing Done. 2.00 SB
- Total: 3.89 SB
Although weaker than previously, this is still a solid choice for healing.

Breton
- 2000 Max Magicka. 1.52 SB
- 100 Magicka Regen. 0.78 SB
- 7% Magicka Cost Reduction. 2.03 SB
- Total: 4.33 SB
As it has always been, Breton remains a great healer race. And they now get more sustain than ever before.

Dark Elf (Dunmer)
- 1250 Max Magicka. 0.95 SB
- 258 Spell Damage. 2.00 SB
- Total: 2.95
Not a terrible choice, but inferior to some other options on this list.

Khajiit
- 75 Magicka Regen. 0.58 SB
- 750 Magicka. 0.57 SB
- 8% Spell Crit. 2.10 SB
- Total: 3.25 SB
The new regen and max magicka bonuses are nice. And the addition of spell crit will increase healing.

Nord
- 5 Ultimate every 10s when taking damage. 1.16 SB
- Total: 1.16 SB
While they get almost no useful healing bonuses, the ultimate passive is quite strong and may make Nord the best race for healers looking to push top scores by getting out more Warhorns.

Redguard
- 8% reduced weapon ability cost. Highly subjective how many skills used are from Restoration and Destruction Staves. This definitely has some value for the reduced cost of Combat Prayer, Springs, Blockade, Mutagen/Rapid, and the Restoration ultimate. Not even to attempt a guess here since it is so dependent on play style.
- Total: ?
Could be useful for some builds, but unlikely that it will compete with others on this list.

WrathOfInnos

Recommended Changes

Edit: Decided to remove any suggestions here and leave this purely a source of data. I made a different discussion for suggested changes, and it can be found here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458182/racial-passive-suggestions#latest

kalunte

hi there. i understand your point and think you're right for most of it, still you made a few assumptions that bother me a bit.

1st: you put all bonuses in the same bag, weither their are "passive" with 100% uptime, or "active" with relative uptime depending on skill used or "attitude" (let's say sprinting) or even "situational" bonuses like stealth detection that are unefficient in combat.

2nd: while i agree that a bonus to spell damage and weapon damage can be counted as 1 bonus, a dual bonus on max magicka and max stamina shouldnt be counted as only 1.2 but 2.
in facts, while spell/weapon dmg only affects dmg and heals, a bonus to stats also include a ressource pool buff, which makes a difference when it comes to pvp for example, or the amount of dmg you can block, or dodges and break free when magicka oriented in pve. (i assume a buff to magicka pool in pve while being a stamina dd is 100% useless tho).

finally i'd love your system to be appliedon racial first, and then to all sets in the game

MashmalloMan

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Dunmer bonus should allow for better burst damage. They do not have any sustain passives, so there is no reason to use them if they cannot provide good initial damage, without becoming too powerful relative to other choices. The health could be given up, and players could redistribute into health as required (like other damage races). I would recommend the following:
- 1250 Magicka and 1250 Stamina. 1.2 SB
- 2310 Fire Resistance. 0.87 SB
- 387 Weapon and Spell Damage. 3.00 SB
- Total: 5.07

I think people are missing how max mag is more important to mag dd and how wep dmg is more important to stam dd, it would be nice to see the bonuses reflect that.

Plus that dmg is way too high, no point in running any other stam race for DD.

Dunmer
- 1250 1750 Magicka and 1250 1000 Stamina.
- 600 hp
- 2310 Fire Resistance. 0.87 SB
- 258 spell dmg and 258 300 Weapon dmg.

Altmer
- Restore 575 700 Mag or Stam every 6s.
- 5% damage reduction while casting or channeling.
- 2000 2250 Max Magicka.
- 258 200 Spell Damage.

Breton is good.

Orc
1000 hp and 750 sta

Redguard
- 8% cost reduction on weapon skills (mag/sta/ult)
Pick 1.
- 4% cost reduction on all mag/sta/ult skills
- 5% cost reduction on all mag/sta skills
- 7% cost reduction on all sta skills

satanio

Question: Why don't you consider proc resource returns as resource recovery attribute?
example: argonians potion passive: 3600 + 3600 + 3600 once per 45/sec. -> 10800/45 = 240 resource/s -> recovery stats happen every 2 seconds, so we get 480 resource recovery, divide it by 129 and we'll get = 3,72 SB

Lord_Eomer

Good work, you always do good work for community!

WrathOfInnos

kalunte wrote: »

1st: you put all bonuses in the same bag, weither their are "passive" with 100% uptime, or "active" with relative uptime depending on skill used or "attitude" (let's say sprinting) or even "situational" bonuses like stealth detection that are unefficient in combat.

@kalunte This is true. My initial post does nothing to evaluate the situational usefulness of each passive. I plan to go into this more in my 2nd post, but have not gotten to it yet. I want to do a PVE evaluation where I remove things like stealth, sprinting. And I want to do a DPS evaluation where I also remove things like healing done/received and off-resource bonuses. I'll probably get to this within the next few days, keep an eye out. I could always use a second opinion when determining which stats are useful or useless to specific roles.

kalunte wrote: »

2nd: while i agree that a bonus to spell damage and weapon damage can be counted as 1 bonus, a dual bonus on max magicka and max stamina shouldnt be counted as only 1.2 but 2.
in facts, while spell/weapon dmg only affects dmg and heals, a bonus to stats also include a ressource pool buff, which makes a difference when it comes to pvp for example, or the amount of dmg you can block, or dodges and break free when magicka oriented in pve. (i assume a buff to magicka pool in pve while being a stamina dd is 100% useless tho).

This is a tough one, since I see it both ways. In some places, mixed magicka and stamina bonuses seem to be counted as completely independent. Twice born star set for example, has a 1096 stamina 3-pc bonus and a 1096 magicka 4-pc. However, I think this is exactly why TBS has fallen out of common use.

The opposite example is the 1pc bonus on Domihaus, which simultaneously gives 1096 max stamina and 1096 max magicka. This would imply that the off-resource has no additional value (similar to the situation I stated for spell/weapon dmg, crit, and penetration). However, I do think that there are situations, particularly in PVP where stamina benefits magicka builds and magicka benefits stamina builds.

I ended up landing somewhere in between for my analysis. I used the 5-pc bonus of Shacklebreaker as an example (2000 magicka + 2000 stamina). Comparing that to similar single stat sets, Hulking Draugr with 2540 stamina and Destruction Mastery with 2400, I could get an idea of the value of bi-stat resource bonuses. I did not want to use Necropotence, since it has the additional requirement of needing a pet, and therefore has higher base values. Directly comparing those sets we would get:

1 Magicka + 1 Stamina = 2400/2000 = 1.20 Magicka
1 Magicka + 1 Stamina = 2540/2000 = 1.26 Stamina

Although it is not exactly the same situation, I wanted to find other bi-stat examples to help confirm these numbers. One that came to mind was Amber Plasm, with a 5-pc bonus of 250 magicka regen and 250 stamina regen. There is not a direct example of a 5-pc single resource regen to compare this 2, so I tried 2 ways:

Using 300 regen as a hypothetical 5-pc bonus, since it is 2.32X the standard 129 mag or stam regen. This also works in comparison with Julianos or Hundings with their ~300 damage 5-pc, since regen and damage are weighted equally when it comes to set bonuses.

1 Mag Regen + 1 Stam Regen = 300/250 = 1.2 Mag regen or 1.2 Stam regen

The other way to look at this was with the average return from the Lich set, which gives 1032 magicka regen, with a max of 33% uptime, or about 344 magicka regen.

1 Mag Regen + 1 Stam Regen = 344/250 = 1.37 Mag regen or 1.37 Stam regen

There is certainly some subjectivity in choosing which of these values exactly can be used for conversion of other bonuses. I would say it is bound somewhere in that 1.2 to 1.37 range, with most examples closer to 1.2. Realistically, perfect uptime of the Lich proc is not possible, so even that outlier will drop a little. I went with 1.25 as a fair average of these, but I accept that it could be slightly higher or lower.

WrathOfInnos

satanio wrote: »

Question: Why don't you consider proc resource returns as resource recovery attribute?
example: argonians potion passive: 3600 + 3600 + 3600 once per 45/sec. -> 10800/45 = 240 resource/s -> recovery stats happen every 2 seconds, so we get 480 resource recovery, divide it by 129 and we'll get = 3,72 SB

@satanio That was actually my first instinct as well, since it would make assigning them a set bonus relative to the standard 129 very easy. The thing that led me away from that is the wide range of multipliers that a build could have on recovery.

Looking just at magicka recovery for example, a build could get exactly the tooltip value with no bonus. Or they could get: 20% from Major Intellect, 10% from Minor Intellect, 15% from CP's, 28% from light armor, 10% from vampirism, 2% from a mage's guild ability slotted, 10% from a support ability slotted, for a total of 95% extra regen. This hypothetical build would get almost double the resource return from a regen passive compared to a resource return proc.

I wanted to decouple builds as much as possible from this analysis, so if it is a non-scaling resource return racial passive I only wanted to compare it to a non-scaling resource return set bonus. For argonians specifically, maybe Engine Guardian set could be a good comparison as well (even though it is RNG based).

satanio

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I wanted to decouple builds as much as possible from this analysis, so if it is a non-scaling resource return racial passive I only wanted to compare it to a non-scaling resource return set bonus. For argonians specifically, maybe Engine Guardian set could be a good comparison as well (even though it is RNG based).

@WrathOfInnos thank you for your answer. Alright, I totally get you now. So there's my next question: How did you manage to discover this exact information: 5-pc set bonus = 2.32 SB

WrathOfInnos

Marshall1289 wrote: »

I think people are missing how max mag is more important to mag dd and how wep dmg is more important to stam dd, it would be nice to see the bonuses reflect that.

Plus that dmg is way too high, no point in running any other stam race for DD.

@Marshall1289 Those are fair points. The only reason to run another stam race would be for some sustain with the damage. The same applies to the magicka side, and always has. Dunmer has the highest damage, but lowest sustain.

I can get onboard with what you're saying though, that increasing the weapon/spell damage would benefit stamina more than magicka builds, where increasing the magicka/stamina would benefit magicka builds more than stamina builds. Since most of the community is concerned about their magicka Dunmer becoming obsolete, the answer may be to provide more resource bonus and less damage as you suggested. I doubt that we'll see the Max Resource value on stam and mag become different, since Dunmer is being described as the pure hybrid now. Maybe it could become:

- 2000 Magicka and 2000 Stamina. 1.92 SB
- 2310 Fire Resistance. 0.87 SB
- 300 Weapon and Spell Damage. 2.32 SB
- Total: 5.11 SB

I'm not sure Altmer needs adjusting. And I definitely would not want their bonuses changed just to make Dunmer seem better. Altmer is already looking like its at just over 5 set bonuses, where the stated goal for each race was 6.5. As long as all the comparable races fall into the same range this doesn't seem bad though.

For Redguard, its interesting the route they decided to take with Weapon Skill cost reduction. It will tend to create niche builds that focus more on weapon skills for Redguard, and admittedly will make them a bad choice for other builds. I actually like this, and think that if their cost reduction passive is shown to be too weak that it could be increased to maybe 10% (should be on par with your 4% general cost reduction for a lot of builds then). I'm not completely opposed to your suggestion of 4% cost reduction on all things (like the Templar passive), it just seems a little boring from a build point of view.

Orc is going to be a tricky one to buff. On paper they have the highest number of set bonuses in their racial passives. In practice, the speed boost is nearly useless in PVE. Healing received is nearly useless for DPS builds, and weapon damage is nearly useless for tanks. Even the max health is not going to make PVE DPS pick the race. So from a DPS standpoint their 7.73 SB becomes 4.70 SB. Even so, I like what they did with this race, with a mix of bonuses for damage, tanking, and utility. It can excel at multiple roles, even if its not the best for one. Your suggestion for a little more health and stamina would be fine, and shouldn't have any significant effect on race balance.

WrathOfInnos

satanio wrote: »

So there's my next question: How did you manage to discover this exact information: 5-pc set bonus = 2.32 SB

@satanio Various examples of sets all show this ratio.

Julianos and Hundings: 299 damage/129 damage = 2.32
Mother's Sorrow and Leviathan: 1924 crit/833 crit = 2.31
Spinners and Spriggans: 3450 penetration/1487 penetration = 2.32

It doesn't really apply when looking at some harder to obtain trials sets. Like Siroria gives more Spell damage on the 5-piece and Twice Fanged Serpent give more Physical penetration. But it does seem pretty consistent for Crafted, Overland, and Dungeon sets.

Durham

I think the Imperial is weakest atm ... Honestly they were the stat (Race) well guess what was nerfed (Stats) ... On the test server the imperial loses pretty big on stats they get nothing for it really 5% blocking ??? Thats no where as good as some of the other things....

MashmalloMan

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

I think people are missing how max mag is more important to mag dd and how wep dmg is more important to stam dd, it would be nice to see the bonuses reflect that.

Plus that dmg is way too high, no point in running any other stam race for DD.

- 2000 Magicka and 2000 Stamina. 1.92 SB
- 2310 Fire Resistance. 0.87 SB
- 300 Weapon and Spell Damage. 2.32 SB
- Total: 5.11 SB

This is way too overtuned for Stam DD imo. It's already high dmg at a sacrifice for low sustain for stam classes so you can't just increase the stats the same on both sides.

This is a quick point system I made to illustrate a problem from a DD perspective, not just SB. This is obviously very subjective, but it highlights a couple things for myself.

Values I Use (Obviously Subjective)
Conditional = -0.5
Okay Sustain = +1
Good Sustain= +2
Great Sustain= +2.5
Excellent Sustain = 3
2k stam = +3
258 dmg = +4
8% crit (rng) = +3 to 5

Dunmer has 258 DMG and 1.25k sta
Altmer has BOTH 258 dmg and 2k magicka, with okay conditional sustain.
Bosmer has 2k Stam and great sustain.
RG has 2k Stam and excellent conditional sustain
Orc has 500 stam and 258 dmg with okay conditional sustain.
Khajiit has 750 stam and 8% crit with okay sustain.

Dunmer: 5.875
Altmer: 7.5
Bosmer: 5.5
RG: 5.5
Orc: 5.25
Khajiit: 4.125 - 6.125

So all the Stam DD races here hover around 5-6. This is from weighting sustain as something useful to me, however in raid environments where sustain is less important for BiS due to synergies, the races with higher sustain start to fall behind. (This is balanced imo.) This also doesn't consider hp bonuses, it's often standard to hit hp marks like 17k hp, Orc/Khajiit/Dunmer don't have to sacrifice as much max stam to hit these marks, therefore increasing dmg potential.

In 7 med you're at 16.2k hp, any of these races mean you can play comfortably with blue food at around 16.8-17k hp. No sacrifice required.

Unfortuneatly you can't just look at SB numbers, you need to compare them to the pre-established race traits they chose. The problem is Altmer triple dips where stam races don't as much so it's hard to give Dunmers the same stat boosts on both sides without tipping the entire race to BiS for Stam, they are at good level right now.

Mag Dunmer is under performing in comparison to Altmer. Dunmer is weaker in dmg and has no sustain, yet it doesn't have that same issue with stam DD because of the way they chose to design the stam DD races in comparison. Not a single Stam Race has both 2k max stam AND 258 dmg. Stam races balanced max resource/sustain/dmg all together along with utlitly bonuses. Altmer just gave straight up dmg/sustain/max resource.

Maybe the best answer would be to simply add +100 fire dmg to the the fire resistance passive, but that's a bit one sided for a hybrid race, so stam should get something unqiue that doesn't put it over the edge for BiS.

In discriptions, Dunmer is often defined as "Strong, quick and intellectual. They like melee hand-to-hand combat and the art of magic. They are also good assassins." They appear to be a middle ground between the Elves where Altmer is the Mage and Bosmer is the Rouge. Even more represented by their height in games always being taller than Bosmer, but shorter than Altmer. This shows how they have always been a Hybrid esque race choice in lore, however they've always had slightly higher inspiration regarding fire and destruction magic, as well as being nimble and cunning.

I suggested moving some of Altmers Spell dmg to sustain to give Dunmer a better chance at being the dmg oriented race, without changing Altmer's design completely. It becomes more and more complicated to balance the Stam/Mag sides at the same time because of how all the Stam races compare to Dunmer currently, Altmer doesn't follow those same rules.

So this is what I would propose if we are not willing to touch how overtuned Altmer is.
- 1250 max mag and 1250 max sta
- 2310 Fire Resistance and +100 fire dmg.
- +6% movement speed (Swift Jewelry Trait)
- 258 Weapon and Spell dmg.

I chose this before looking at the values I used above. So let's see how that value scale I used would work here.

Sta DD: Same 5.875
Mag DD: 5.875 + 1.55 (fire dmg) - 0.25 (conditional) = 7.17
Altmer: 7.5

I would say fire dmg isn't that conditional because fire staves are BiS front bar, therefore -0.25. This conditional also goes out the window with a DK which is half the Dunmer population right now.

I honestly think this is very thematically sound and more interesting. The problem will be the 100 fire dmg because ZOS wanted to get away from that, but it's really the only thing I can think of without overtuning the stam DD side if we agree they won't value the stam/mag stats differently.

MashmalloMan

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

satanio wrote: »

So there's my next question: How did you manage to discover this exact information: 5-pc set bonus = 2.32 SB

It doesn't really apply when looking at some harder to obtain trials sets. Like Siroria gives more Spell damage on the 5-piece and Twice Fanged Serpent give more Physical penetration. But it does seem pretty consistent for Crafted, Overland, and Dungeon sets.

Well they justify those bonuses as conditional instead of passively static which makes perfect sense to me and why they provide extra. The more conditional a bonus is, ususally the more it provides.

The problem is when they think they have nailed the conditional nature or rng of a set bonus, when in reality you can keep it up 100% of the time, even better when you can front bar a set and still get 100% uptime like advancing yokeda.

If something is passive or unconditional, the bonus is 2.32 like you said.

That's why recently I thought they should change maces to match the math here.

Using 5% crit chance on daggers as the bench mark

833 crit = SB 1
1095 crit (1h Dagger) = SB 1.3145.
1487 pen (Kraghs 1pc) * 1.3145 = 1955 pen

Maces/Mauls should give 1955 flat pen instead of 10% each, it's in keeping with the games set bonus values. There is no reason to not do this. Especially since they probably have the data to show maces are under used accross the game.

This would cut out the rng factor of "Well how much resistances do they have after debuffs?"

MashmalloMan

Marshall1289 wrote: »

- 1250 max mag and 1250 max sta
- 2310 Fire Resistance and +100 fire dmg.
- +6% movement speed (Swift Jewelry Trait)
- 258 Weapon and Spell dmg.

Also from a SB point of view like yours.

- 1250 max mag and 1250 max sta 1.2 SB
- 2310 Fire Resistance. Referenced Resist Fire Jewelry Enchant. 0.87 SB
- +100 fire dmg. Referenced Silks of the Sun Set. 0.58 SB (400 = 2.325 SB/4)
- +6% movement speed. Referenced Swift Jewelry Trait 0.87 SB
- 258 Weapon and Spell dmg 2.0 SB
Total: 5.52

WrathOfInnos

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

- 1250 max mag and 1250 max sta
- 2310 Fire Resistance and +100 fire dmg.
- +6% movement speed (Swift Jewelry Trait)
- 258 Weapon and Spell dmg.

Also from a SB point of view like yours.

- 1250 max mag and 1250 max sta 1.2 SB
- 2310 Fire Resistance. Referenced Resist Fire Jewelry Enchant. 0.87 SB
- +100 fire dmg. Referenced Silks of the Sun Set. 0.58 SB (400 = 2.325 SB/4)
- +6% movement speed. Referenced Swift Jewelry Trait 0.87 SB
- 258 Weapon and Spell dmg 2.0 SB
Total: 5.52

@Marshall1289 I like your idea to add spell damage specifically for fire abilities. It would be good for balance, lore friendly, and has the precedent with the Silks of the Sun set. I’ll go ahead and update my recommendation to include this.

As much as I would like to see the speed bonus you mentioned as well, I highly doubt this will make it into the game. After all the recent speed nerfs it seems we’re doomed to be slow. And if we did get a new source of constant speed I don’t think I’d want it tied to a single race (orc and boomer are at least tied to conditions of dodging or sprinting, both which cannot be maintained forever).

MashmalloMan

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

- 1250 max mag and 1250 max sta
- 2310 Fire Resistance and +100 fire dmg.
- +6% movement speed (Swift Jewelry Trait)
- 258 Weapon and Spell dmg.

Also from a SB point of view like yours.

- 1250 max mag and 1250 max sta 1.2 SB
- 2310 Fire Resistance. Referenced Resist Fire Jewelry Enchant. 0.87 SB
- +100 fire dmg. Referenced Silks of the Sun Set. 0.58 SB (400 = 2.325 SB/4)
- +6% movement speed. Referenced Swift Jewelry Trait 0.87 SB
- 258 Weapon and Spell dmg 2.0 SB
Total: 5.52

@Marshall1289 I like your idea to add spell damage specifically for fire abilities. It would be good for balance, lore friendly, and has the precedent with the Silks of the Sun set. I’ll go ahead and update my recommendation to include this.

As much as I would like to see the speed bonus you mentioned as well, I highly doubt this will make it into the game. After all the recent speed nerfs it seems we’re doomed to be slow. And if we did get a new source of constant speed I don’t think I’d want it tied to a single race (orc and boomer are at least tied to conditions of dodging or sprinting, both which cannot be maintained forever).

6% movement speed seems fair in comparison to 10% sprint speed/-12% sprint cost reduction or 20% movement speed on roll dodge.

You could play any other race and just use a swift + flame resist enchanted ring and get the same "unique" passives the Dunmer would give here. That's why it's not as strong as it seems, but it would add flavour for Dunmer's thats otherwise missing, especially for the "Nimble" and "Agility" focussed side of the race presently missing.

While +100 fire dmg would solve the issue between Altmer vs Dunmer, it gives nothing to the stam side which doesn't seem to be apart of ZOS's vision. A movement speed bonus could counteract that view.

Nothing about their passives exemplifies being Nimble or Agile like previous explanations of Dunmer's in ES games, I really think they need something that shows that side of them instead of just dmg and resources. It's very uninspiring.

If the problem is the passive being constant (while I don't agree), we could find a way to make a speed bonus more conditional.

+6% movement speed
+8% movement speed after casting a stamina ability for 4 seconds.
+10% movement speed in stealth
+14% sprint speed after casting any ability for 4 seconds.

The issue I have with it being conditional is it would end up being stronger and more inaccessible for people not using the race than you think it would be.

Look at Bosmer, 20% movement speed after dodge is huge. It's not easy to replicate without a full armor set (Not sure if it even exists). While conditional, a dodge roll build can proc this for very high uptime easily.

Orc gives 10% sprint speed, -12% sprint cost reduction, 4% healing received and 380 stam/hp every 4 sec.

Dunmer giving 6% movement speed and fire resist is just 1 Jewelry piece.

But yeah.. it's a bit of a pipe dream, I don't think they will add that for Dunmer even though I think it's warranted. Orc in it's current state beats out Dunmer in every aspect for me as a stam pvp setup. From a DD perspective, the sustain Orc has is a fair trade for 750 less stamina, dmg the same, hp is basically the same.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

I don't like the extra specific damage. Makes magdk locked into Dark elfs again.

WrathOfInnos

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

I don't like the extra specific damage. Makes magdk locked into Dark elfs again.

Most of Magplar DPS is also Fire based. Magblade and petless Sorc are not far behind, which is why all of these builds do well with Burning Spellweave. The only Magicka builds that wouldn’t synergize well with a fire bonus are Magwarden and pet Sorc.

The fire profiency is based on Elder Scrolls lore, and maintaining even a shadow of its previous form would be appreciated by all the players that specifically created Dunmer for this passive.

WrathOfInnos

Updated with more comments and recommendations.

Grom4e

The Orc must have at least 1250 hp and stamina .

WrathOfInnos

Grom4e wrote: »

The Orc must have at least 1250 hp and stamina .

That would make Dunmer entirely inferior as stamina DPS. Orc is already in a strong place, looking like #3 burst DPS (after Khajiit and Dunmer) and #2 sustained DPS (possibly #1 in some scenarios).

WrathOfInnos

I’d like to hear some thoughts and ideas for Bosmer. In terms of set bonuses they seem to have a good number, but most would agree that the 1.5 coming from stealth detection are pretty useless. The speed and poison resistance are also situational, and this leaves them with only 2k stamina and 258 stamina regen. Is this enough to make them competitive with other races? Are we ok with them being more of a utility race and less of a heal/tank/damage race like most of the others fall into? What suggestions could improve Bosmer without overpowering them in PVP or overshadowing other races?

JobooAGS

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I’d like to hear some thoughts and ideas for Bosmer. In terms of set bonuses they seem to have a good number, but most would agree that the 1.5 coming from stealth detection are pretty useless. The speed and poison resistance are also situational, and this leaves them with only 2k stamina and 258 stamina regen. Is this enough to make them competitive with other races? Are we ok with them being more of a utility race and less of a heal/tank/damage class like most of the others fall into? What suggestions could improve Bosmer without overpowering them in PVP or overshadowing other races?

The movement speed buff alone is already doing that and needs to get looked at. It is more powerful than you think, see the summerset meta before swift was nerfed. Perhaps change that passive to sneak speed

MartiniDaniels

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I’d like to hear some thoughts and ideas for Bosmer. In terms of set bonuses they seem to have a good number, but most would agree that the 1.5 coming from stealth detection are pretty useless. The speed and poison resistance are also situational, and this leaves them with only 2k stamina and 258 stamina regen. Is this enough to make them competitive with other races? Are we ok with them being more of a utility race and less of a heal/tank/damage race like most of the others fall into? What suggestions could improve Bosmer without overpowering them in PVP or overshadowing other races?

Magicka recovery via proc passive, something like 500 magicka each 5 seconds on melee hit

WrathOfInnos

We got some great changes today on PTS. I support most of them, and particularly like the simplification of how CP multipliers apply to max resources, but some things concern me. @ZOS_Gilliam

Altmer Sustain

For years they have had 9% Magicka recovery, which isn’t a whole lot. For a typical PVE build with recovery food it works out to 75 recovery, or 37 magicka per second (more with Moondancer or recovery jewelry). PvP builds vary more, but assuming just adding Lich set this goes up to 129 recovery or 64 magicka per second.

The first iteration of PTS increased this to 525 with a cooldown of 6s. This gave a maximum of 87 magicka per second if using a class ability every 6s. With many magicka PVE rotations being based around longer DoTs (8-12s) it may be more fair to say 44-66 mag/s average. This seemed fine, about on par with the old 9% regen, with a slight buff if you intentionally built a rotation to maximize its effectiveness.

Now this has been completely removed and replaced with off-resource return. For nearly all Altmer builds this means stamina return, which is almost completely useless in PVE. It also does not make sense with the lore, as Altmer have always had high magicka pools and magicka recovery, while suffering in anything stamina related. In Skyrim they had the Highborn power to quickly regenerate Magicka. In Oblivion they had penalties to Strength, Speed, and Endurance. In fact, the current PTS puts Altmer magicka sustain behind Khajiit, Imperials, Bretons, Argonians and Redguards. This is puzzling, and disapppinting to the race known to be the most proficient with magic.

I think at a minimum they need to get a flat Magicka recovery bonus of 100 to 150. This would put them behind Breton sustain, but slightly ahead of Khajiit. Depending on build, Altmer would potentially have better sustain than Imperial and Argonian. From a lore perspective I’d like to see the stamina bonus removed entirely, despite its usefulness in PVP. It seems like something that would be more fitting for Dunmer.


Orc and Dunmer

This one seems strange to me. The previous iteration had Dunmer as the highest stamina damage (maybe on par with Khajiit depending on crit modifiers), while Orc was slightly lower damage with a little sustain from the stamina restore proc. This seemed balanced IMO. Now with the max stamina increase in Orc, it completely overshadows Dunmer in all scenarios (same weapon damage, more stamina, more health, and healing passives). Even with the slight buff to Dunmer max resources, it cannot compete as a stamina race with these changes. If the Orc changes stay, I would recommend giving a stamina return proc (like the one taken from Orc and given to Altmer) to Dunmer. Then Dunmer can be the true hybrid race (as they should be in lore), with slightly lower damage than Orc or Altmer, but better stamina sustain.

TiZzA93

@WrathOfInnos Hi im on xbox n also dnt understand numbers very well, could u give a quick update on imperials new passive pls

WrathOfInnos

TiZzA93 wrote: »

@WrathOfInnos Hi im on xbox n also dnt understand numbers very well, could u give a quick update on imperials new passive pls

@TiZzA93 Sure, the new imperial passive on PTS today is:

Red Diamond: Reworked this passive so when you deal Direct Damage now, you restore 333 Health, Magicka, and Stamina. This effect has a 5 second cooldown. It also will reduce the cost of Block and Bash by 5%.

This works out to 333/5 = 67 Magicka, Stamina and Health returned per second maximum. It’s a great passive, that helps Imperials as a viable tanking race, and fits with their jack of all trades reputation.

TiZzA93

Would the new sustain be good for stam dps now endgame or would it be far away like nord still ty 4 reply

WrathOfInnos

TiZzA93 wrote: »

Would the new sustain be good for stam dps now endgame or would it be far away like nord still ty 4 reply

It wouldn’t be far from other races. They get the same 2k stamina as Redguard and Bosmer, but Imperial sustain isn’t as good. Imperial does get significantly more health, so they could possibly switch to Lava Foot Soup and Saltrice food to gain back some Max Stam and Stam Regen.

Worst case I’d put them about 4% DPS behind Orc or Khajiit, with much better survivability.