Racial Passives and the Slippery Slope ZOS is rolling down

Inig0

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Just another thread that proves that PvP is the true endgame where choices and understanding of the game really matters.
Going by your suggestions we would be left with no diversity in the game, everything would turn grey and boring.

Bruh youve been running around cyro for the past 5 years in the same map doing the same thing. How is that not grey and boring for you? The options you have in pve are just as narrow than in pvp. If you dont want to recognize that then i dont know what to tell you. Theres a reason why the best dueler NA/EU plays only lizard on mag. With a morph system for racial youll be able to get away with playing any race if the lore racial flare passive is insignificant enough.

ToRelax

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Seems to me that Dunmer is still top tier pick for magicka pvp builds , especially for vemp builds.

Shacklebreaker for example is a very popular off-set for magicka builds, paired very well with sets like Necropotence. Dummer already got the stats value build in and can skip Shacklebreaker for a set like Bright-Throat's Boast resulting in more damage and sustain compared to Altmer running with Shacklebreaker .

No.

Shacklebreaker not only provides more stam than Dunmer gets, especially when factoring in max stat increases from CP. It also takes care of your stamina regeneration.

To use Bright-Throat's, Dunmer would have to use Witchmother's, which provides fewer stats than food options and is less necessary on Altmer thanks to their innate sustain. It also isn't mathematically superior to Shacklebreaker, simply providing a different set of stats. Seriously, running Dunmer in order to use Witchmother's...
Altmer has plenty options of gaining max stam and stam regen that are more efficient than running Dunmer instead.

lassitershawn

Having a Nord myself I was pretty happy for the buffs but if you look at this patch seriously from a PvE balance perspective you are gonna be pretty pigeonholed into a certain race for a certain role. Imo there should be at least two races more or less equal for each possible spec in PvE (stam DD, mag DD, tank, healer) for variety sake.

J18696

nsmurfer wrote: »

Taken from https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454707/race-pve-dps-difference-tests-for-both-stamina-and-magicka-results-and-graphical-breakdown#latest

susmitds wrote: »

Magicka DPS - Overall races are very close with a difference lesser than 1.5k between top and bottom. The races are ranked below.

1. Breton() - Their insane sustain is capable of infinitely sustaining most rotation even with blue food, making them a serious contender for the best DPS.
2. Altmer() - Overall, they are the most well-rounded magicka DPS dealer this time around. Though Breton beats them in self-buffed DPS by a very small margin, in groups with sustain support, they can easily come out on top.
3. Khajiit() - They are going to become very capable mages this patch onwards, though sustain is a major PITA. In well-coordinated with perfect Warhorns and constant sustain support, they should be able to easily challenge pure magicka races.
4. Dunmer() - They are very capable mages, even though they are not the best anymore. As long as sustain challenges are overcome, they will do fine in any content.
5. Argonian() - In spite of not being a true DD race, they perform fairly well as a DPS unit enough earn a place in any vet content.

Stamina DPS - Stamina DPS as a whole, took a hit with the DW nerf both in terms of damage and sustain from Absorb Stamina Enchant (106.7 stamina recovery loss equivalent). All races are fairly close to each other.

1. Orc() - Orc comes out as the top PvE stamina race with their new weapon damage buff becoming probably the best stamina passive in the game. Their recovery passive buff is twice as high the loss from the DW changes, meaning it cancels out the loss and gives them more stamina return even after that.
2. Bosmer() - Much suprising, Bosmer is the next strongest stamina DD race this time, virtually tying with Orc for the top spot. Their sustain as well as overall resources has undergone an insane buff cancelling out the sustain loss from DW changes and still having additional stamina reserves.
3. Redguard() - They are still the stamina powerhouses they always were. Using weapon spammables, they can easily reclaim top spot. Their sustain buff also cancels out the sustain loss from DW changes.
4. Dunmer() - They are boasting the highest raw damage stamina race in the game, but their sustain is virtually non-existant. In proper groups, they have the potential to take the top DPS spot.
5. Khajiit() - Stat-wise, they are virtually at the same spot in PvE as live. However, they are hit the hardest with the DW changes, as their sustain is the only one that did not get buffed and hence does not cancel out the sustain loss. Additionally, their crit passive was the only one that affected enchants and hence, enchant nerf indirectly affected them the most. Still, they are good DPS and depending on group sustain support and Warhorn frequency, they can do great in vet content.
6. Imperial() - They have huge stamina reserve to play with (more than any other races) but once it runs out, they have no means to refill it. DW sustain changes hit them pretty hard as well, dropping their overall DPS.

Maybe use real data, than decide based on biased emotions

This is based off a solo buffed dummy rotation not grp buffed

MartiniDaniels

lassitershawn wrote: »

Having a Nord myself I was pretty happy for the buffs but if you look at this patch seriously from a PvE balance perspective you are gonna be pretty pigeonholed into a certain race for a certain role. Imo there should be at least two races more or less equal for each possible spec in PvE (stam DD, mag DD, tank, healer) for variety sake.

+
Though in stamdps department it looks more or less close now. In others it's same pigeonholing, only races have somewhat changed.

JinMori

TheRealSniker wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Just another thread that proves that PvP is the true endgame where choices and understanding of the game really matters.
Going by your suggestions we would be left with no diversity in the game, everything would turn grey and boring.

So you don;t think mathematical understanding of the game, and which race is overall better doesn't count as understanding of the game, and that pvp is completely cut off from that?

This is stupid.

Do you really think PvP requires any less of mathematical understanding of the game ?

No i don't

Bowser

I really like this idea!

Playnice

This sort of confirmed my preconceived notions that an "only-choice" class would rise up above them all. ZOS making the racial passives generic spell damage/weapon damage for example, forces all end game players to select from one or two choices for all classes if they like pushing dps numbers to the limit. Yea yea people will say stuff like "Dunmer was always best at dk" and that's fine by me. At least Dunmer had a class to really shine in.

sneakymitchell

nsmurfer wrote: »

Taken from https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454707/race-pve-dps-difference-tests-for-both-stamina-and-magicka-results-and-graphical-breakdown#latest

susmitds wrote: »

Magicka DPS - Overall races are very close with a difference lesser than 1.5k between top and bottom. The races are ranked below.

1. Breton() - Their insane sustain is capable of infinitely sustaining most rotation even with blue food, making them a serious contender for the best DPS.
2. Altmer() - Overall, they are the most well-rounded magicka DPS dealer this time around. Though Breton beats them in self-buffed DPS by a very small margin, in groups with sustain support, they can easily come out on top.
3. Khajiit() - They are going to become very capable mages this patch onwards, though sustain is a major PITA. In well-coordinated with perfect Warhorns and constant sustain support, they should be able to easily challenge pure magicka races.
4. Dunmer() - They are very capable mages, even though they are not the best anymore. As long as sustain challenges are overcome, they will do fine in any content.
5. Argonian() - In spite of not being a true DD race, they perform fairly well as a DPS unit enough earn a place in any vet content.

Stamina DPS - Stamina DPS as a whole, took a hit with the DW nerf both in terms of damage and sustain from Absorb Stamina Enchant (106.7 stamina recovery loss equivalent). All races are fairly close to each other.

1. Orc() - Orc comes out as the top PvE stamina race with their new weapon damage buff becoming probably the best stamina passive in the game. Their recovery passive buff is twice as high the loss from the DW changes, meaning it cancels out the loss and gives them more stamina return even after that.
2. Bosmer() - Much suprising, Bosmer is the next strongest stamina DD race this time, virtually tying with Orc for the top spot. Their sustain as well as overall resources has undergone an insane buff cancelling out the sustain loss from DW changes and still having additional stamina reserves.
3. Redguard() - They are still the stamina powerhouses they always were. Using weapon spammables, they can easily reclaim top spot. Their sustain buff also cancels out the sustain loss from DW changes.
4. Dunmer() - They are boasting the highest raw damage stamina race in the game, but their sustain is virtually non-existant. In proper groups, they have the potential to take the top DPS spot.
5. Khajiit() - Stat-wise, they are virtually at the same spot in PvE as live. However, they are hit the hardest with the DW changes, as their sustain is the only one that did not get buffed and hence does not cancel out the sustain loss. Additionally, their crit passive was the only one that affected enchants and hence, enchant nerf indirectly affected them the most. Still, they are good DPS and depending on group sustain support and Warhorn frequency, they can do great in vet content.
6. Imperial() - They have huge stamina reserve to play with (more than any other races) but once it runs out, they have no means to refill it. DW sustain changes hit them pretty hard as well, dropping their overall DPS.

Maybe use real data, than decide based on biased emotions

Funny nord ain’t on the list. But hey let’s just say nords are tanks while that ulti regen is still helpful for DD. With the cold resistance as well that helps get immunity to chilled helps even more in fights where everything is frost.

Inig0

J18696 wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

Taken from https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454707/race-pve-dps-difference-tests-for-both-stamina-and-magicka-results-and-graphical-breakdown#latest

susmitds wrote: »

Magicka DPS - Overall races are very close with a difference lesser than 1.5k between top and bottom. The races are ranked below.

1. Breton() - Their insane sustain is capable of infinitely sustaining most rotation even with blue food, making them a serious contender for the best DPS.
2. Altmer() - Overall, they are the most well-rounded magicka DPS dealer this time around. Though Breton beats them in self-buffed DPS by a very small margin, in groups with sustain support, they can easily come out on top.
3. Khajiit() - They are going to become very capable mages this patch onwards, though sustain is a major PITA. In well-coordinated with perfect Warhorns and constant sustain support, they should be able to easily challenge pure magicka races.
4. Dunmer() - They are very capable mages, even though they are not the best anymore. As long as sustain challenges are overcome, they will do fine in any content.
5. Argonian() - In spite of not being a true DD race, they perform fairly well as a DPS unit enough earn a place in any vet content.

Stamina DPS - Stamina DPS as a whole, took a hit with the DW nerf both in terms of damage and sustain from Absorb Stamina Enchant (106.7 stamina recovery loss equivalent). All races are fairly close to each other.

1. Orc() - Orc comes out as the top PvE stamina race with their new weapon damage buff becoming probably the best stamina passive in the game. Their recovery passive buff is twice as high the loss from the DW changes, meaning it cancels out the loss and gives them more stamina return even after that.
2. Bosmer() - Much suprising, Bosmer is the next strongest stamina DD race this time, virtually tying with Orc for the top spot. Their sustain as well as overall resources has undergone an insane buff cancelling out the sustain loss from DW changes and still having additional stamina reserves.
3. Redguard() - They are still the stamina powerhouses they always were. Using weapon spammables, they can easily reclaim top spot. Their sustain buff also cancels out the sustain loss from DW changes.
4. Dunmer() - They are boasting the highest raw damage stamina race in the game, but their sustain is virtually non-existant. In proper groups, they have the potential to take the top DPS spot.
5. Khajiit() - Stat-wise, they are virtually at the same spot in PvE as live. However, they are hit the hardest with the DW changes, as their sustain is the only one that did not get buffed and hence does not cancel out the sustain loss. Additionally, their crit passive was the only one that affected enchants and hence, enchant nerf indirectly affected them the most. Still, they are good DPS and depending on group sustain support and Warhorn frequency, they can do great in vet content.
6. Imperial() - They have huge stamina reserve to play with (more than any other races) but once it runs out, they have no means to refill it. DW sustain changes hit them pretty hard as well, dropping their overall DPS.

Maybe use real data, than decide based on biased emotions

This is based off a solo buffed dummy rotation not grp buffed

Also after looking through their post a little bit i noticed they changed their armor enchants to reach 17k hp for ???????? they also used lighting blockade and a shock enchant. Which is just going to add a weird variety of buff uptimes. They also didnt include any screenshots from their combat metrics parses. Just because someone shows you a graph with numbers on it doesn't necessarily mean how theyre doing it is proper and good representation.