The most drastic PvE change coming in U21

Bigevilpeter

mb10 wrote: »

Erm this is a logical and balanced change?

How can a sword have the same enchantment power as a great sword?

This would be logical if they buffed stam dds some how, dw are mostly used by pve stamdd which was challenging and relequen was the biggest source of dps not weapon enchants.

Also Ice staff tanking just doesnt work well, forcing people to go that way becasie the couldnt balance it just sucks

Faulgor

Double Nirnhoned + Poison new meta?

But seriously, tanks shouldn't suffer for this. Someone suggested adding +100% enchantment effectiveness to the 1h+s skill line passives, which I think would be the most elegant solution.

SaintSubwayy

STamina DPS wise we will have to adapt, but for tanks they should have made a change to a Passive, which doubles the Enchatment when running SNB.

There is actually no need to nerf tanks in this game. Racechange nerfs are enough IMO.
Furthermore many tanks already run a Destro on backbar with blockade, which applies chrusher glyph on CD most of the time.

jainiadral

*speechless*

This is going to destroy casual players, especially new players. As if the game wasn't difficult enough starting out. I wish they'd stop balancing the game around PvP and the uber-1337s.

SaintSubwayy

jainiadral wrote: »

*speechless*

This is going to destroy casual players, especially new players. As if the game wasn't difficult enough starting out. I wish they'd stop balancing the game around PvP and the uber-1337s.

The game is IMO balanced pretty good for casual players. IMO casualy do NOT need vMA staffs neither do they need to push DPS above 20-.25k, which srsly can be achieved by rolling your head arround oon the keyboard

Many of those changes actually buff Casuals, they may have to retrait their DW weapons back to nirn, or precise and use a poison, but if they dont want to min / max, then they will be fine....if you cant sustain then use Camoran throne, and not the blue food.

actosh

Now we Tanks just gotta be a bit more carefull if we want to debuff a specific target in a *** fight.
What u can/could do is either learn to position yourself right and lay down the blockade, or do a light attack on blockade, and then keep it up with sword/board. This way u r just refreshing the highest crusher value, even with a low one.

Dont really like the change since i keep it up with light attacks, but doin it with blockade is no prob at all.

Vildebill

Anyone wanna touch my infused Alkosh ice staff?

Jokes aside, a lot of us tanks already use back bar destro staff to apply crusher, so it won't be that huge of a difference. Stamina DPS on the other hand...

jainiadral

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

*speechless*

This is going to destroy casual players, especially new players. As if the game wasn't difficult enough starting out. I wish they'd stop balancing the game around PvP and the uber-1337s.

The game is IMO balanced pretty good for casual players. IMO casualy do NOT need vMA staffs neither do they need to push DPS above 20-.25k, which srsly can be achieved by rolling your head arround oon the keyboard

Many of those changes actually buff Casuals, they may have to retrait their DW weapons back to nirn, or precise and use a poison, but if they dont want to min / max, then they will be fine....if you cant sustain then use Camoran throne, and not the blue food.

...and new players?

I don't see them having Camoran Throne-- whatever that is. And they sure as heck don't have anything Nirn-traited.

Protossyder

This is a step in the right direction. The game has become too easy, since the DPS was increased each patch by new bis-sets, more cp, buffs (e.g. light attacks) while the bosses and mobs remained untouched.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Krayl wrote: »

I hate being a tank and having to use a staff already. Sigh.

You do not have to. Here we talking about 556 (purple infused) to 598 (gold infused) less crushing for heaven sake. Is not going to kill the game or our ability to tank with full S&B. Let the DD min/maxer roll tanks if they cry so much.

Worst case use a bow and drop endless hail, but that would reduce tanking to front bar only.

Personally, if people complain I will quit the group, and let them spend another 1 hour try to find tank for that 600 crushing to save them 1 second in the trial run...

IzzyStardust

Krayl wrote: »

Tanking isn't "more dynamic" just because we are forced to use magic sticks and medium armor sets. There's nothing 'dynamic' about being pushed further and further towards being a glorified buff bot.

Oi! Stay in your own lane!
Signed,
Your Healer

Beastofmash

There making the classes more viable...... errrrrm tanks take massive amounts of damage..There not damage dealers.... just stick to your taunts lol.
If you want to be a high damage dealer try out another build.
This is so stupid... why the feck would you be focusing on dealing damage as a tank.
This game works smoother when a tank stays tanking. If a healer starts being a DD watch what happens to the group.
If a tank starts being a DD watch what happens lmao.

NocturnalSonata

Imagine if we could dual wield destruction staves... and each enchantment stayed the same value as they were before... now imagine the crying coming from every stam dps screaming OP.

Well it is about time dual wield did not double count enchants. Seems quite logical and sensible. Shocking right!!

Arrodisia

If ZOS really wants to impress us they'd give us some variety by reworking and buffing more of the unused abilities in our classes. So they can stop collecting dust in the UI. It would be much better than constantly nerfing damage until we eventually need 30mins.+ per boss. tkk in a dungeon.

Jimmy

Well, my newly gold crafted tank 1-handers and poop now. Seems legit.

Like this game doesn't have enough problems enticing people to roll tanks................
Solution to not enough tanks is???? In ZOS's mind, Nerf them? WTF?

HappyLittleTree

It's a logic decision I think. dual wield was overperforming.

Kuwhar

How many times did we see the word "max" in the OP?

Thats a symptom of a bigger problem IMO. Everyone needing everything max all the time. Its max or gtfo for some.

I on the other hand like this change as its a slight buff to 2h and my tank wont feel the difference.

Though i am a filthy casual, i assume my opinion is invalid.

Bigevilpeter

Kuwhar wrote: »

How many times did we see the word "max" in the OP?

Thats a symptom of a bigger problem IMO. Everyone needing everything max all the time. Its max or gtfo for some.

I on the other hand like this change as its a slight buff to 2h and my tank wont feel the difference.

Though i am a filthy casual, i assume my opinion is invalid.

The problem with maxing that people who claim its not needed is that it adds up making a huge difference overall.

So lets say a light nerf to race then a slight nerf to weapon enchant and then a slight nerf to a set or a skill, this ends up making a huge loss in dps and quite noticable, in harder content dps is the key, the faster you kill stuff the easier a dungeon or trial gets.

So if a team has 9 DDs and every dd lost like 5k dps because they arent maxing, thats 45k dps lost which is huge

Didaco

jainiadral wrote: »

*speechless*

This is going to destroy casual players, especially new players. As if the game wasn't difficult enough starting out. I wish they'd stop balancing the game around PvP and the uber-1337s.

@jainiadral

What does this change have to do with PvP?
Isn't this made for PvE to avoid to further increase the gap between 2H and Dual Wield?

jainiadral

Didaco wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

*speechless*

This is going to destroy casual players, especially new players. As if the game wasn't difficult enough starting out. I wish they'd stop balancing the game around PvP and the uber-1337s.

@jainiadral

What does this change have to do with PvP?
Isn't this made for PvE to avoid to further increase the gap between 2H and Dual Wield?

Maybe not this change, but past changes like tbe sorc nerfs had a lot to do with PvP. Anyway, my issue has to do with ZOS ignoring vast swaths of its player base instead of tailoring and separating changes as it should. My comment has nothing to do with any prejudice toward parts of player base in this game, so I hope it wasn't taken as such. If so, I apologize.

Austinseph1

I’m pretty sure Stamblade has been the highest dps since murkmire, this levels the playing field for 2h. Not a fan of it affecting tanks tho...

Austinseph1

I like the idea of a more level playing field between your race and weapon choices. I remember seeing. You shouldn’t feel like less of a dps because you choose 2h over 1x1, or a bad tank for using a frost staff. With the new sets frost tanks will be a cooler thing as well. I’m not happy that dunmer is slightly worse now but honestly change keeps the game from feeling stagnant even if it’s not in your favor.

Lord_Eomer

ZOS fixed what was wrong!

OP need to calmn down and stop complaining of something that was unbalanced.

Jimmy

The whole point of this 1-hand enchant nerf is to nerf dual wield.

Here's the thing..... SWORD AND BOARD IS NOT DUAL WIELD. Sword and Board is 1 weapon and 1 armor piece (shield).

Sword and Board is NOT a dual wield (2 weapon) set-up. It should NOT be treated as such. It should not be nerfed to fix dual wield's OP.

The enchant on weapon nerf should be applied ONLY when 2 weapons are equipped on a bar.

When it is a Sword and Board, just like 2-Handers, it is counted as 1 weapon and should get the FULL enchant effect.

IzzyStardust

Jimmy wrote: »

The whole point of this 1-hand enchant nerf is to nerf dual wield.

Here's the thing..... SWORD AND BOARD IS NOT DUAL WIELD. Sword and Board is 1 weapon and 1 armor piece (shield).

Sword and Board is NOT a dual wield (2 weapon) set-up. It should NOT be treated as such. It should not be nerfed to fix dual wield's OP.

The enchant on weapon nerf should be applied ONLY when 2 weapons are equipped on a bar.

When it is a Sword and Board, just like 2-Handers, it is counted as 1 weapon and should get the FULL enchant effect.

THIS, actually.

Finneholt

jainiadral wrote: »

*speechless*

This is going to destroy casual players, especially new players. As if the game wasn't difficult enough starting out. I wish they'd stop balancing the game around PvP and the uber-1337s.

Maybe, but chances are new players aren't privy to all that is going on as they are more focused on what they are doing at the start, and have no real benchmark to compare things to like those of us that have dumped hundreds of hours into the game. I know that Gina Bruno's wording seems highly suspect in terms of implying that PVP somehow had a direct affect on enchant nerfs by making it seem single hand is in contest with two hand "Enchants on one handed weapons will now be half the potency of those placed on two handed weapons", but really it's the NPC's that have done all the complaining and instigated the nerfs.

RavenSworn

jainiadral wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

*speechless*

This is going to destroy casual players, especially new players. As if the game wasn't difficult enough starting out. I wish they'd stop balancing the game around PvP and the uber-1337s.

The game is IMO balanced pretty good for casual players. IMO casualy do NOT need vMA staffs neither do they need to push DPS above 20-.25k, which srsly can be achieved by rolling your head arround oon the keyboard

Many of those changes actually buff Casuals, they may have to retrait their DW weapons back to nirn, or precise and use a poison, but if they dont want to min / max, then they will be fine....if you cant sustain then use Camoran throne, and not the blue food.

...and new players?

I don't see them having Camoran Throne-- whatever that is. And they sure as heck don't have anything Nirn-traited.

They sure as heck won't be thinking much on enchants in the first place imo. New players are too busy trying to figure out which zone to quest and structuring their builds before even worrying about enchants.

On topic though, aside from the usual discomfort with the changes, it just needs getting used to. It's a good change imo.

And if this indirectly 'buffs' ttwo hander, I'm all up for it. As of live, right now, Stam dps are dw bow back bar. For all classes. Like, it's not even funny. I'd like to see two hander dks, or maybe 2h wardens or something. But it's all dw/bow back bar. The meta is getting stale. Change was needed.

Emmagoldman

They should triple the power, we should have 100k parses and solo vhof

Great change zos, keep it up! PVE needs to be tuned back to have some challenge

jainiadral

Finneholt wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

*speechless*

This is going to destroy casual players, especially new players. As if the game wasn't difficult enough starting out. I wish they'd stop balancing the game around PvP and the uber-1337s.

Maybe, but chances are new players aren't privy to all that is going on as they are more focused on what they are doing at the start, and have no real benchmark to compare things to like those of us that have dumped hundreds of hours into the game. I know that Gina Bruno's wording seems highly suspect in terms of implying that PVP somehow had a direct affect on enchant nerfs by making it seem single hand is in contest with two hand "Enchants on one handed weapons will now be half the potency of those placed on two handed weapons", but really it's the NPC's that have done all the complaining and instigated the nerfs.

They may not be privy, but they sure will be impacted by the change. And if the game's even harder out of the starting gate, they may not stick around. I was borderline about quitting in a lot of tough spots for my first three or four months of playing because leveling was slow, combat was brutal, and showed no signs of getting easier. And I was playing a pre-nerf sorc. I can't imagine being new post-Murkmire

This is going to be even rougher for newbies. I wonder how retention rates are going to be for them. Games flounder without influxes of new players-- you have to have at least enough to compensate for vets on a break or quitting the game. Growth is even better.

The changes won't make much of a difference for me, or maybe for you or long term vets. But that isn't what matters. What matters is what ZOS seems to be missing: make sure your new blood keeps playing.

Maybe I'm weird, but I want this game to be around for awhile.

Finneholt

jainiadral wrote: »

Finneholt wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

*speechless*

This is going to destroy casual players, especially new players. As if the game wasn't difficult enough starting out. I wish they'd stop balancing the game around PvP and the uber-1337s.

Maybe, but chances are new players aren't privy to all that is going on as they are more focused on what they are doing at the start, and have no real benchmark to compare things to like those of us that have dumped hundreds of hours into the game. I know that Gina Bruno's wording seems highly suspect in terms of implying that PVP somehow had a direct affect on enchant nerfs by making it seem single hand is in contest with two hand "Enchants on one handed weapons will now be half the potency of those placed on two handed weapons", but really it's the NPC's that have done all the complaining and instigated the nerfs.

They may not be privy, but they sure will be impacted by the change. And if the game's even harder out of the starting gate, they may not stick around. I was borderline about quitting in a lot of tough spots for my first three or four months of playing because leveling was slow, combat was brutal, and showed no signs of getting easier. And I was playing a pre-nerf sorc. I can't imagine being new post-Murkmire

This is going to be even rougher for newbies. I wonder how retention rates are going to be for them. Games flounder without influxes of new players-- you have to have at least enough to compensate for vets on a break or quitting the game. Growth is even better.

The changes won't make much of a difference for me, or maybe for you or long term vets. But that isn't what matters. What matters is what ZOS seems to be missing: make sure your new blood keeps playing.

Maybe I'm weird, but I want this game to be around for awhile.

I absolutely agree with you, and you're not weird. I want this game to be around as well, and I want others to enjoy those moments of exhilarating experiences. As a day one player, I remember multiple situations where NPC world bosses, quest bosses, and dungeon enemies extended beyond my capabilities as a starting player even well into higher levels, and overcoming those moments with, sometimes, great difficulty. I just wonder who this nerf is really for: for player vs NPC's or player vs player. We agree that there is a large pool of NPC enemies that have the capacity to be demanding from new players even to vet (vet dungeons, world bosses, trials etc), but now Zenimax has taken away damage from players who face NPC enemies because NPC's couldn't handle weapon enchantments? Or maybe they think player vs NPC wasn't balanced? (Rhetorical questions) This makes no sense to me. There isn't one person who can say that every drop of damage that a player can come up with isn't vital to player vs NPC. If this is about player vs player than why can't it be that for anyone entering Cyrodiil they receive whatever the appropriate nerf would be upon entry. And on exiting Cyrodiil the nerf is removed. For duelists, why not receive whatever appropriate nerf upon the acceptance of the dual, and once the dual has ended the nerf removes. Peace.