PTS Update 21 - Feedback Thread for Item Sets & General Itemization

SodanTok

Updated Feedback on Tzogvin’s Warband

I like the changes made to this set in newest patch. It performs reliably finally (biggest obstacle of previous version) and easy to manage high uptime on unmoving defenseless target like skeleton (which previous version couldnt). Mechanically it is in perfect spot IMO.

Now it has just 3 small problems.
First is, it is useless outside of bow/bow or builds that hate to use trap. This problem is insignificant and can be ignored easily (not everything has to be useful for everybody).

Second problem is the penetration I complained about last time. Since the design of the set favors frontbar use, it means penetration stat is active only 60-80% of the time (time spent on front bar. It is minor problem, but in optimized groups this means wearer either has too much penetration on front bar (when set is active) or not enough on backbar (when set isnt).

Third problem is that the set isnt as good as it could still be without getting OP. Again, just a small problem since its probably not that important and the set wasnt meant to shake the meta or anything, but if got slightly better it would still not shake the meta so from my point of view it has no reason to not get better. If we directly compare the set to other options (leaviathan, yokeda) and other skills giving Minor Force (trap, acceleration). I guess for balance reason it shoulddnt be better than combination of crit set and minor force skill (1 set + skill > 1 set), but it has quite some way to get there. Since trap still offers significant amount of damage and weapon damage boost on sloting, leviathan offers 3% more crit and yokeda slightly over 3%. I think this set could very much offer 3% more crit without being better than leviathan (i am aware leviathan is affected by frontbar uptime) + trap. So in that sense it could get more crit (from 1% to 3%) without being OP and yet becoming more relevant option.

//edit:
After further testing I am starting to like this set very much on bow/bow. Personally I would still want to see the crit little higher and the penetration moved to 3item bonus, but I must admit the set seems to be on par with other options on bow/bow (where one is forced to use channeled acceleration which in a way costs DPS by being channeled) and the existence of penetration bonus is def advantage (so while yes, moved to 3item is better, I would rather see it stay on 4item than being removed altogether)

vesselwiththepestle

I am quite happy with the performance of Deadly Strike.

It is a strong contester to Berserking Warrior + it has a bow, so it will be especially great for players who don't have a vma bow. After adding Spell Strategist to Cyrodiil I think this is a very good addition on the Stamina DPS side. Sadly you lose it's bonus while on back-bar (vma bow). I tested it on my Stam DK and I will definitely switch out Berserking Warrior for Deadly Strike. In solo parses I am able to get roughly the same DPS, I guess in raid parses it will be slightly lower than BW (due to Warhorn). In my honestly it could even get buffed a little bit, however, then it's very easy to obtain, thus it makes sense that BW will out-perform Deadly Strike. (Yes, I will change although I will get lower DPS, because I like the consistency and I like to use different sets and not always the same - it's performing good enough for me, with good enough meaning dealing more than 12% of group DPS in my trials group, however I understand that everything which isn't the best is completely useless to many players.)
On a side note, 2 Daggers for PVE and 2 Axes for PVP already lying on the bank, lol. Buying lots of crates won't very useful right now, because the jewelry is coming with Healthy trait and will have to be transmuted. I haven't tested yet which trait is strongest with this set, but robust works anyway (I tried only robust, especially because I consider going Orc next patch and robust will make it easier to keep up the sustain).

(Now we just need an alternative to Relequen, which is still out-performing everything else in trials / long ST boss fights . Or just a buff to Stamina DPS, which doesn't apply to procc sets like Relequen.)

I like the idea and concept of Scavenging Demise. I will have to convince my regular group to try it out on a Stam DPS . I guess it might see its uses in groups without routine who are still struggling to complete Craglorn HM's etc. Just because it won't be worth using in the top 5% meta raid groups, it doesn't mean the set is useless. However, it could use a little buff. It might be interesting in duels, but I don't like to duel because I always lose, lol. Suggestion: Increase the Damage. Else it might end up like Defiler, completely useless.

Tzogvin’s Warband seems to be underperforming. It would be more interesting, if it would get an unique buff to critical damage instead of Minor Force. In PVE you can easily use the Rearming Trap, while in PVP it's probably hard to deal consistent critical hits to achieve max stacks. Because of the duration of 10 seconds it seems like it could be front-barred, but then it gets Physical Penetration as a 4th bonus instead of a third bonus. Suggestions: Move Physical Penetration to 3rd bonus. Make the Critical Damage bonus an unique buff which does stack with Minor Force.

vesselwiththepestle

As the CP cap won't be increased this patch, what about increasing the inventory or bank space (or both) by 30 slots?

Toc de Malsvi

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Tzogvin’s Warband seems to be underperforming. It would be more interesting, if it would get an unique buff to critical damage instead of Minor Force. In PVE you can easily use the Rearming Trap, while in PVP it's probably hard to deal consistent critical hits to achieve max stacks. Because of the duration of 10 seconds it seems like it could be front-barred, but then it gets Physical Penetration as a 4th bonus instead of a third bonus. Suggestions: Move Physical Penetration to 3rd bonus. Make the Critical Damage bonus an unique buff which does stack with Minor Force.

@vesselwiththepestle
Tzogvins Warband was suggested explicitly in reference to non meta setups like Bow/Bow which do not have good access to Minor Force. Light Weight Trap does not remotely compare to re-arming trap even after nerfs to re-arming. As such with the most recent changes to Warband it performs admirably for Bow/Bow and might be the new meta for Bow/Bow.

For reference: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5789203

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Warband: Will proc on direct damage rather than basic attacks so players can get more specific performance. ZOS understand that min-max grouped players wont need this set, but wants these bonuses available for bow / bow builds and people not in such organized gameplay. We felt this was fine.

Changing the 4th and 3rd passive positions would be rather welcome.

SaintSubwayy

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I am quite happy with the performance of Deadly Strike.

It is a strong contester to Berserking Warrior + it has a bow, so it will be especially great for players who don't have a vma bow. After adding Spell Strategist to Cyrodiil I think this is a very good addition on the Stamina DPS side. Sadly you lose it's bonus while on back-bar (vma bow). I tested it on my Stam DK and I will definitely switch out Berserking Warrior for Deadly Strike. In solo parses I am able to get roughly the same DPS, I guess in raid parses it will be slightly lower than BW (due to Warhorn). In my honestly it could even get buffed a little bit, however, then it's very easy to obtain, thus it makes sense that BW will out-perform Deadly Strike. (Yes, I will change although I will get lower DPS, because I like the consistency and I like to use different sets and not always the same - it's performing good enough for me, with good enough meaning dealing more than 12% of group DPS in my trials group, however I understand that everything which isn't the best is completely useless to many players.)
On a side note, 2 Daggers for PVE and 2 Axes for PVP already lying on the bank, lol. Buying lots of crates won't very useful right now, because the jewelry is coming with Healthy trait and will have to be transmuted. I haven't tested yet which trait is strongest with this set, but robust works anyway (I tried only robust, especially because I consider going Orc next patch and robust will make it easier to keep up the sustain).

(Now we just need an alternative to Relequen, which is still out-performing everything else in trials / long ST boss fights . Or just a buff to Stamina DPS, which doesn't apply to procc sets like Relequen.)

I like the idea and concept of Scavenging Demise. I will have to convince my regular group to try it out on a Stam DPS . I guess it might see its uses in groups without routine who are still struggling to complete Craglorn HM's etc. Just because it won't be worth using in the top 5% meta raid groups, it doesn't mean the set is useless. However, it could use a little buff. It might be interesting in duels, but I don't like to duel because I always lose, lol. Suggestion: Increase the Damage. Else it might end up like Defiler, completely useless.

Tzogvin’s Warband seems to be underperforming. It would be more interesting, if it would get an unique buff to critical damage instead of Minor Force. In PVE you can easily use the Rearming Trap, while in PVP it's probably hard to deal consistent critical hits to achieve max stacks. Because of the duration of 10 seconds it seems like it could be front-barred, but then it gets Physical Penetration as a 4th bonus instead of a third bonus. Suggestions: Move Physical Penetration to 3rd bonus. Make the Critical Damage bonus an unique buff which does stack with Minor Force.

Tzogvins Warband was suggested explicitly in reference to non meta setups like Bow/Bow which do not have good access to Minor Force. Light Weight Trap does not remotely compare to re-arming trap even after nerfs to re-arming. As such with the most recent changes to Warband it performs admirably for Bow/Bow and might be the new meta for Bow/Bow.

For reference: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5789203

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Warband: Will proc on direct damage rather than basic attacks so players can get more specific performance. ZOS understand that min-max grouped players wont need this set, but wants these bonuses available for bow / bow builds and people not in such organized gameplay. We felt this was fine.

Changing the 4th and 3rd passive positions would be rather welcome.

Well thats the case if you want to frontbar it...but since there are 2 nice pve bows in masters and vma bows, I d personally slot thogvins and relequen full on body (there aint a great monsterset for bow bow builds, maybe veli but jeah)
Having vdsa bow instead of a monsterset may be worth it

Toc de Malsvi

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I am quite happy with the performance of Deadly Strike.

It is a strong contester to Berserking Warrior + it has a bow, so it will be especially great for players who don't have a vma bow. After adding Spell Strategist to Cyrodiil I think this is a very good addition on the Stamina DPS side. Sadly you lose it's bonus while on back-bar (vma bow). I tested it on my Stam DK and I will definitely switch out Berserking Warrior for Deadly Strike. In solo parses I am able to get roughly the same DPS, I guess in raid parses it will be slightly lower than BW (due to Warhorn). In my honestly it could even get buffed a little bit, however, then it's very easy to obtain, thus it makes sense that BW will out-perform Deadly Strike. (Yes, I will change although I will get lower DPS, because I like the consistency and I like to use different sets and not always the same - it's performing good enough for me, with good enough meaning dealing more than 12% of group DPS in my trials group, however I understand that everything which isn't the best is completely useless to many players.)
On a side note, 2 Daggers for PVE and 2 Axes for PVP already lying on the bank, lol. Buying lots of crates won't very useful right now, because the jewelry is coming with Healthy trait and will have to be transmuted. I haven't tested yet which trait is strongest with this set, but robust works anyway (I tried only robust, especially because I consider going Orc next patch and robust will make it easier to keep up the sustain).

(Now we just need an alternative to Relequen, which is still out-performing everything else in trials / long ST boss fights . Or just a buff to Stamina DPS, which doesn't apply to procc sets like Relequen.)

I like the idea and concept of Scavenging Demise. I will have to convince my regular group to try it out on a Stam DPS . I guess it might see its uses in groups without routine who are still struggling to complete Craglorn HM's etc. Just because it won't be worth using in the top 5% meta raid groups, it doesn't mean the set is useless. However, it could use a little buff. It might be interesting in duels, but I don't like to duel because I always lose, lol. Suggestion: Increase the Damage. Else it might end up like Defiler, completely useless.

Tzogvin’s Warband seems to be underperforming. It would be more interesting, if it would get an unique buff to critical damage instead of Minor Force. In PVE you can easily use the Rearming Trap, while in PVP it's probably hard to deal consistent critical hits to achieve max stacks. Because of the duration of 10 seconds it seems like it could be front-barred, but then it gets Physical Penetration as a 4th bonus instead of a third bonus. Suggestions: Move Physical Penetration to 3rd bonus. Make the Critical Damage bonus an unique buff which does stack with Minor Force.

Tzogvins Warband was suggested explicitly in reference to non meta setups like Bow/Bow which do not have good access to Minor Force. Light Weight Trap does not remotely compare to re-arming trap even after nerfs to re-arming. As such with the most recent changes to Warband it performs admirably for Bow/Bow and might be the new meta for Bow/Bow.

For reference: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5789203

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Warband: Will proc on direct damage rather than basic attacks so players can get more specific performance. ZOS understand that min-max grouped players wont need this set, but wants these bonuses available for bow / bow builds and people not in such organized gameplay. We felt this was fine.

Changing the 4th and 3rd passive positions would be rather welcome.

Well thats the case if you want to frontbar it...but since there are 2 nice pve bows in masters and vma bows, I d personally slot thogvins and relequen full on body (there aint a great monsterset for bow bow builds, maybe veli but jeah)
Having vdsa bow instead of a monsterset may be worth it

Personally I feel Stormfist is the go to monster set if you want to do bow. However regardless of that, swapping 3rd and 4th spots doesn't affect you if you double bar it, and is nice for those that want to single bar it. It is much easier to keep up since the most recent changes, even single barred. It doesn't need that change though, it performs well either way, would just be nice.