CP PvP is Garbage

Skoomah

I step into CP enabled Cyrodiil for the first time in 6 months last week. I’m looking for big battles with interesting fights that require skillful play that involves punch vs. counter punch. What did I get?

- Game cannot handle big battles. I disconnected 1/4 of the time I was trying to play in Cyrodiil and always at the most critical point when everyone is on screen for the final push to decide who takes a keep.

- CP has made overall power levels absurdly high. I found half a dozen pockets of players that could run around infinitely, CC immunity infinitely, tank all kinds of damage from 3+ people, and return fire with ultimate dumps that hit insanely hard.

Why do people continue to stack into CP enabled Cyrodiil? You can’t play the game and when you can play the game, the builds people run around with are annoying as hell to fight. CPs carry people so hard.

WuffyCerulei

I’m gonna use the CP I spent 3 years getting. As for the lag, if you stepped into Vivec during the event, it’s kinda on you. From I’ve heard, the lag is absolutely terrible atm.

Nerftheforums

Skoomah wrote: »

I step into CP enabled Cyrodiil for the first time in 6 months last week. I’m looking for big battles with interesting fights that require skillful play that involves punch vs. counter punch. What did I get?

- Game cannot handle big battles. I disconnected 1/4 of the time I was trying to play in Cyrodiil and always at the most critical point when everyone is on screen for the final push to decide who takes a keep.

- CP has made overall power levels absurdly high. I found half a dozen pockets of players that could run around infinitely, CC immunity infinitely, tank all kinds of damage from 3+ people, and return fire with ultimate dumps that hit insanely hard.

Why do people continue to stack into CP enabled Cyrodiil? You can’t play the game and when you can play the game, the builds people run around with are annoying as hell to fight. CPs carry people so hard.

Cc immunity infinitely? Excuse me, what the duck? My cc immunity cps give me only 30s uptime on immunity.
Btw, nice how people can tank 3+ players but 1 ult from them hits "insanely hard". Are you sure the issue is not on your side?

KhajiitFelix

100% agree.

technohic

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I’m gonna use the CP I spent 3 years getting. As for the lag, if you stepped into Vivec during the event, it’s kinda on you. From I’ve heard, the lag is absolutely terrible atm.

Oddly enough; I have felt like lag hasn't been as bad as normal after the first day or 2 of the event. Its definitely there, but I've had much worse before

Strider__Roshin

Non-CP is worse because of proc sets.

Ragnaroek93

Only reason why I support no CP PvP is because of new players who aren't at max CP yet. For everyone who is at CP cap I think that CP PvP is far more appealing since it has more build diversity and much more fast paced. I don't understand how you can accuse CP PvP players to be carried by CP when in no CP you get carried even more by certain sets lol...

Solariken

Yeah CP PvP is terrible.

Vapirko

CP does not, in any way, allow for infinite CC immunity. Vivec primetime is the only unplayable campaign, Shor and Vivec off hours is fine. Also, unless you’re way behind in CP, everyone has access to it and therefore it’s still balanced in that sense. Imo ultimates can hit way harder in no CP. Taking damage from 3 people is pretty freakin easy. Lots of people barely have any idea how to play and output less pressure than a resource guard. So, if you don’t like it and can’t handle it don’t play CP. Thats why there is Sotha and BGs. Sounds like you’re jsut not used to CP/maybe don’t have your points allocated correctly and got rekt by some good players.

frostz417

I laugh at people who think cp PvP is terrible as they’re sitting over there in non cp wearing 3 different proc sets, double dot poisons, spammables that snare, and multiple cc’s on their bar, and bleeds yeah cp is totally a disaster...
*gets hit with sloads, viper, zaan, double dot poisons, bleeds*

BrokenGameMechanics

Agreed the current situation which makes unkillable, tank ball groups that gets a get out of jail free card by being able to spam ultis and spin to win is currently sad.

Consider a 10v10 where one group consists of high quality DPS type builds and the other is a bunch of tanks. The tank group just insta wipes the other group every time. You can't kill them, heck can't even scratch them. They just mill around shrugging off any and all damage and then just insta-dump ultis, Dawn Breakers and spin-2-wins and it is over with the DPS group wiped in a second.

It also sucks that this far and away PvP meta (unkillable tank ball groups ulti spamming) is also the least skill required to play. i.e. You don't have to Get Good to be Really Good in PvP. Hold block, spam heals, 1-2-3 ulti-dump ... and spin. A lot of this is attributable to CP, but I really think it is bigger than CP and is indicative of failure in overall balance.

Basically in a 10v10 situation it should not be the Tank ball group that wipes the other group within seconds every single time.

PhoenixGrey

Performance is at an all time low in vivec

But the skill ceiling in no cp is lower than the floor. You can probably ace no cp bg's with empty skill bars

Toc de Malsvi

Skoomah wrote: »

I step into CP enabled Cyrodiil for the first time in 6 months last week. I’m looking for big battles with interesting fights that require skillful play that involves punch vs. counter punch. What did I get?

- Game cannot handle big battles. I disconnected 1/4 of the time I was trying to play in Cyrodiil and always at the most critical point when everyone is on screen for the final push to decide who takes a keep.

- CP has made overall power levels absurdly high. I found half a dozen pockets of players that could run around infinitely, CC immunity infinitely, tank all kinds of damage from 3+ people, and return fire with ultimate dumps that hit insanely hard.

Why do people continue to stack into CP enabled Cyrodiil? You can’t play the game and when you can play the game, the builds people run around with are annoying as hell to fight. CPs carry people so hard.

It's a lot easier to survive in CP PVP, players don't like riding 10min to get ganked or blown up by a large/larger zerg.

Personally I favor no-CP, but the balance is entirely different. It's easier to get blown up so sets that give direct damage proc's are more effective as they can give both additional burst while also having no additional resource cost to the user.

Lag is bad in both and is more a factor of organized groups stacking and ulti-dumping. Try no-CP campaigns early in the event before many organized groups form. The lag is very low, game performance is high. There are good small groups that will kill you fine but the overall lack of organization means the game is not having to deal with 10-20 players ultimates + heals + aoe's going off in the same tiny window.

Cyrodiil is meant for group play but cannot really handle group play, it can handle randoms and there is no real way to force that. Even in other games like WoW where there was solo que only BG's, players would group in large voice chat rooms and then whoever got into the same BG would then move into a private chat room and still run organized. I'm not saying it wouldn't perhaps mitigate some of the effects, but there is no way to force groups to split.

Qbiken

Solariken wrote: »

Yeah CP PvP is terrible.

Fixed it for you

VaranisArano

Its a matter of what you are used to.

If you've come to CP PVP from No CP, yeah, you'll need to adjust your expectation of the power levels. Players are tankier with better sustain.

If you go from CP PVP to No CP, you'll need to adjust your build properly for sustain and defense, and prepare for more powerful proc sets.

Personally, I prefer CP PVP in Cyrodiil and No CP in Battlegrounds, but respect that everyone has their own preferences.

Katheriah

You're garbage

Skoomah

I stand by my two original points of this thread.

1. Quality of fights in CP PvP is garbage.
2. Server performance in PVP is garbage.

Stop taking it so personally...

ZeroXFF

CP PvP is Garbage

Unfadingsilence

Non CP pvp and BGs take zero skill it's all set based after you take out CP

Kova

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Cc immunity infinitely? Excuse me, what the duck? My cc immunity cps give me only 30s uptime on immunity.
Btw, nice how people can tank 3+ players but 1 ult from them hits "insanely hard". Are you sure the issue is not on your side?

30 second CC-immunity?! Was this a joke or is the game seriously this broken?

Not everyone depends on raw damage to take someone out and they need the stun so 30 seconds of no stuns = 30 seconds of just face tanking damage waiting for burst IF you can even outlast.

If I had to guess...stam? Can probably hit 4k weapon damage? Seriously, what happened to this game?

Galarthor

technohic wrote: »

show previous quotes

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I’m gonna use the CP I spent 3 years getting. As for the lag, if you stepped into Vivec during the event, it’s kinda on you. From I’ve heard, the lag is absolutely terrible atm.

Oddly enough; I have felt like lag hasn't been as bad as normal after the first day or 2 of the event. Its definitely there, but I've had much worse before

This!

But it's not odd. There are far fewer raids / ball groups during the event b/c
1) easier prey on other campaigns
2) queues are too long

VaranisArano

Galarthor wrote: »

show previous quotes

technohic wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I’m gonna use the CP I spent 3 years getting. As for the lag, if you stepped into Vivec during the event, it’s kinda on you. From I’ve heard, the lag is absolutely terrible atm.

Oddly enough; I have felt like lag hasn't been as bad as normal after the first day or 2 of the event. Its definitely there, but I've had much worse before

This!

But it's not odd. There are far fewer raids / ball groups during the event b/c
1) easier prey on other campaigns
2) queues are too long

Heh, from personal experience, I can tell you our reason was more like:

When you have 12 to 24 people all queuing up to play together in an organized raid, its a lot easier for everyone to queue into and play in a lower pop campaign like Shor while you wait for the group queue to get you all into Vivec so you can play together with your guildmates.

Otherwise, you wind up with people trickling into Vivec and thats not fun for people who play as a coordinated team.

Vapirko

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

Agreed the current situation which makes unkillable, tank ball groups that gets a get out of jail free card by being able to spam ultis and spin to win is currently sad.

Consider a 10v10 where one group consists of high quality DPS type builds and the other is a bunch of tanks. The tank group just insta wipes the other group every time. You can't kill them, heck can't even scratch them. They just mill around shrugging off any and all damage and then just insta-dump ultis, Dawn Breakers and spin-2-wins and it is over with the DPS group wiped in a second.

It also sucks that this far and away PvP meta (unkillable tank ball groups ulti spamming) is also the least skill required to play. i.e. You don't have to Get Good to be Really Good in PvP. Hold block, spam heals, 1-2-3 ulti-dump ... and spin. A lot of this is attributable to CP, but I really think it is bigger than CP and is indicative of failure in overall balance.

Basically in a 10v10 situation it should not be the Tank ball group that wipes the other group within seconds every single time.

I have to flat out disagree that CP is the issue here. These tank snare/aoe groups are way worse in no CP. In CP, as a solo player, I have the recovery and mitigation to deal with these groups. In no CP Im just going to get flattened, and on top of that any proc sets those groups are wearing are going to hit way harder in no CP.

React

Here's the way you have to look at it, and I think a lot of people misunderstand this. No cp is far more balanced than cp pvp, in general. You cannot deal good damage, be tanky, and have great sustain in no cp. You really have to pick two. In cp, not only is so much given to you by way of sustain and mitigation, but the amount of damage you're receiving JUST from your blue cp is far greater than the % damage value you"ll gain from equipping any 5 piece damage set. This allows for players to build primarily into mitigation and sustain which are being exponentially boosted by their cp, while at the same time achieving damage values that a year ago would have required at least one 5 piece damage set to hit. The end result is groups of players with 30k health that literally cannot be killed due to the amount of survival they have, and can still kill you fairly easily just through cumulative effort.

In no cp, the whole idea of building into mitigation and sustain with the intention of still dealing damage doesn't work (with the exception of proc sets). Even if you build into sustain and mitigation in no cp, you can still be burnt out of resources fairly easily and you won't have the damage to kill any competent players. As such, it is much more rewarding to build into sustain and damage, which overall is how it should be.

There are some outliers in no cp, such as damaging proc sets, damaging poisons, and bleeds. Obviously proc sets have been an issue for a long time, and they need an adjustment. Truthfully I think the best way to do this would be to have their damage scale with your max mag/stam and SD/WD, as this would reward using them on a damage setup and discourage using them on cheesy mitigation/xv1 oriented setups. Poisons weren't designed with no cp combat in mind, and as such should probably have their effectiveness reduced as a part of the no cp battle spirit. Bleeds are an interesting case. In cp, they serve their purpose well by countering the aforementioned tank meta. Truthfully their more or less the only thing stamina has to counter tanky playstyles, as all sources of defiles have become less accessible and less effective in comparison to bleeds. They're hard to deal with in no cp, but it's the combination of masters rending, axe passive bleeds, and double dot poisons that is truly broken in this environment. I personally think the masters dw should be reduced again to a flat 1k damage bonus, as opposed to the 1250 it is now (1500 on the original buff patch).

Overall, I think people that despise no cp have a lack of experience with it. Battlegrounds is a closed scenario and tends to being out the worst in terms of meta users and cheesy setups. Open world no cp is an entirely different ballgame, and at this point theres no question about it: No-CP open world pvp performs far better than CP enabled open world pvp . Its about time (on console at least) that we ditch our second cp campaign in favor of a 7 day no cp campaign.

Ragnarock41

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Only reason why I support no CP PvP is because of new players who aren't at max CP yet. For everyone who is at CP cap I think that CP PvP is far more appealing since it has more build diversity and much more fast paced. I don't understand how you can accuse CP PvP players to be carried by CP when in no CP you get carried even more by certain sets lol...

More build diversity... You mean fury or go home?

Emma_Overload

CP gives you a chance to survive outnumbered. Sometimes lasting just a few more seconds until more of your faction show up can turn the tide of battle!

Mayrael

"nOcP aRe beTteR bEcaUse iTs mOrE skILL reLaTeD". Last time I've checked it was far easier to roll through noCP campaign because:
1. More less experienced players.
2. If you know how to deal with certain proc sets you will be good.

CPs give more options to build powerful characters that doesn't follow the meta, proc sets are really less meaningful there.

bpmachete

I really think that people like this are influenced by popular players that can't handle CP... we play all the time and players are powerful and people get recked all over the place, only very few groups could ever be that good to stand up to a huge amount of players.

CP makes the game better and gives you a reason to keep playing and ranking up. If 810 is the maximim for now so be it, but all the people that diss CP it's becausebthey can't play good enough. For me for example it allows me for a bit extra sustain, while having more damage, where if it was no CP I need to always have a sustain set and have less damage. I want to be able to hit hard against those tanky players you are talking about, we earned this extra power and it's def not over powered. The mass amount of players make it so you have a chance to fight larger groups as well to have more resistance.

RighteousBacon

Daus wrote: »

Non-CP is worse because of proc sets.

This has to do with the main problem with having non-cp and coming cp content. The game has been primarily balanced for using cp. So the game just plays way different and doesn’t always work as the developers would like in non-cp.

Mayrael

RighteousBacon wrote: »

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Daus wrote: »

Non-CP is worse because of proc sets.

This has to do with the main problem with having non-cp and coming cp content. The game has been primarily balanced for using cp. So the game just plays way different and doesn’t always work as the developers would like in non-cp.

...and this is the reason why noCP players have hard time when entering CP campaigns, they need to completely overhaul their builds, it's not about few adjustments, it's about adding completely new factor to equation. Same the other way. To be effective both need a lot of adjustments. If someone thinks that entering CP campaign is just about spending CPs - you're completely wrong!

amir412

noCP is grabage, what are u talking about?
Everyone literally running procsets, bleeds and what not,
At least CP provide a slight counter to that.

The carry is stronger in noCP cuz procsets shines.