Khajiit passives are not nerfed, do the maths.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · January 2019

I see a lot of complaining about the replacement of the Khajiit +10% Sta regen with flat +75 sta regen
Seems all but the developers forgot that since SotH (2016) patch, all bonuses are additive NOT Multiplicative .

A Khajiit at best has 514 base Sta regen. The +10% racial is 51 regen. Now we get 75 which is equivelent to 14.6% bonus.

All other bonuses (mooncalf, med armour etc) are calculated over the 514 base value and added to it.

So relax and enjoy the big buff we got on Magicka also.

vesselwiththepestle · January 2019

If you are a vampire the bonus gets even better.

John_Falstaff · January 2019

@p_tsakirisb16_ESO , no, the other bonuses are not calculated on 514 base value; they're calculated from the base plus any flat bonuses. So if you have Dubious Camoran Throne drink buff, then you will have 833 regen affected by percentage buffs.

But you're right in the sense that 10% is actually worse than flat 75 until around 1.3k unbuffed regen value, and PvE builds usually don't run that much.

Moonsorrow · January 2019

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

I see a lot of complaining about the replacement of the Khajiit +10% Sta regen with flat +75 sta regen
Seems all but the developers forgot that since SotH (2016) patch, all bonuses are additive NOT Multiplicative .

A Khajiit at best has 514 base Sta regen. The +10% racial is 51 regen. Now we get 75 which is equivelent to 14.6% bonus.

All other bonuses (mooncalf, med armour etc) are calculated over the 514 base value and added to it.

So relax and enjoy the big buff we got on Magicka also.

At pvp, if builds for higher regen, you are wrong. It is a nerf. Your math example is not correct. If used a buff drink, then its flat amount is added to the base, THEN the % so, with just the flat amout and no racial % bonus, you get less when building for high recovery pvp setup.

So all high sustain builds that did get % bonus from racials are getting nerfed sadly.

zaria · January 2019

Now add the extra health, swap the health enchant for stamina.
Yes this will nerf briarheart or other sets with health effect.

Azyle1 · January 2019

Moonsorrow wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

I see a lot of complaining about the replacement of the Khajiit +10% Sta regen with flat +75 sta regen
Seems all but the developers forgot that since SotH (2016) patch, all bonuses are additive NOT Multiplicative .

A Khajiit at best has 514 base Sta regen. The +10% racial is 51 regen. Now we get 75 which is equivelent to 14.6% bonus.

All other bonuses (mooncalf, med armour etc) are calculated over the 514 base value and added to it.

So relax and enjoy the big buff we got on Magicka also.

At pvp, if builds for higher regen, you are wrong. It is a nerf. Your math example is not correct. If used a buff drink, then its flat amount is added to the base, THEN the % so, with just the flat amout and no racial % bonus, you get less when building for high recovery pvp setup.

So all high sustain builds that did get % bonus from racials are getting nerfed sadly.

Right - PVP wise it seems to be a nerf.

PVE wise, not so much, small buff.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · January 2019

Moonsorrow wrote: »

At pvp, if builds for higher regen, you are wrong. It is a nerf. Your math example is not correct. If used a buff drink, then its flat amount is added to the base, THEN the % so, with just the flat amout and no racial % bonus, you get less when building for high recovery pvp setup.

So all high sustain builds that did get % bonus from racials are getting nerfed sadly.

If I remember correctly the formula is

Recovery = (Base + Gear + Mundus + Drink) * (Skills + CP)

Currently we have with current racial (10%) + mooncalf (15%) + 7 medium (28%)

Base 514 + Dring 319 + Mundus (7 gold divines) 363 = 1196
1196 * 1.53 = 1830 (rounded).

With the new skills are

Base 514 + Dring 319 + Mundus (7 gold) 363 + Racial 75 = 1271
1271 * 1.43 = 1818

So all this complaining for losing 12 STA regen under the worst case conditions?

Especially when we get Health and especially Magicka in par to Altmers?

Many in PVP wear at least 1-2 impregnable traits, so they actually get more stamina than losing now!!!!!

susmitds · January 2019

Every other stamina race basically got buffed sustain. Bosmer, Redguard, Orc and even Altmer has better sustain.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · January 2019

susmitds wrote: »

Every other stamina race basically got buffed sustain. Bosmer, Redguard, Orc and even Altmer has better sustain.

You implying that Khajiit didn't got buffed? At worse remained the same and got a big Magicka buff.
.

GarnetFire17 · January 2019

No seems to be mentioning losing the 10 percent damage reduction from stealth. I mean aren't most khajiit nb gankers? I mean that was their niche. I guess they wanted to get rid of niches but take away that and they are just inferior.

Azyle1 · January 2019

Ok wait... after reading stuff....

for PVE, I want an answer - is the sustain nerfed or buffed? Either way it appears to be a very small buff/nerf.

susmitds · January 2019

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Every other stamina race basically got buffed sustain. Bosmer, Redguard, Orc and even Altmer has better sustain.

You implying that Khajiit didn't got buffed? At worse remained the same and got a big Magicka buff.
.

For a pure stamina build, Khajiit remains the same, while all other stamina races got buffed. Magicka buffs don't do much for 90% existing stamina cats. We lost gank damage bonus as well.

Azyle1 · January 2019

susmitds wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Every other stamina race basically got buffed sustain. Bosmer, Redguard, Orc and even Altmer has better sustain.

You implying that Khajiit didn't got buffed? At worse remained the same and got a big Magicka buff.
.

For a pure stamina build, Khajiit remains the same, while all other stamina races got buffed. Magicka buffs don't do much for 90% existing stamina cats. We lost gank damage bonus as well.

But most of the buffs for other races (except redguard which was already ahead) won't really put them past a khajiit for stamina pve dps.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · January 2019

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

No seems to be mentioning losing the 10 percent damage reduction from stealth. I mean aren't most khajiit nb gankers?

LOL

What I see is that ALL my toons (all khajiit but 1), got a buff. Especially the DD Templar (I have 3 Templars).
Repentance + Whirlwind 4TW.

valeriiya · January 2019

UESP has the calculations for all of this and it is easy to work new numbers in to figure out how the changes affect you:

Complete Formula for Health Recovery
HealthRegen =
(round(5.592 * Level + 29.4) + Item.HealthRegen + Set.HealthRegen + Mundus.HealthRegen + (Food.HealthRegen)*(1/(1 + Skill2.HealthRegen)))*(1 + CP.HealthRegen + Skill.HealthRegen + Buff.HealthRegen)*(1 + Skill2.HealthRegen)

John_Falstaff · January 2019

@Azyle1 , if your unbuffed regen (sum of the base regen and flat buffs you get from regen food, glyphs, damage bonuses) is below ~1270, give or take, then you're buffed. Since there's very little need to run that much in PvE, it means that sustain is buffed by a very small amount.

Azyle1 · January 2019

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Azyle1 , if your unbuffed regen (sum of the base regen and flat buffs you get from regen food, glyphs, damage bonuses) is below ~1270, give or take, then you're buffed. Since there's very little need to run that much in PvE, it means that sustain is buffed by a very small amount.

@John_Falstaff
Thank you. I understand now.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · January 2019

susmitds wrote: »

For a pure stamina build, Khajiit remains the same, while all other stamina races got buffed. Magicka buffs don't do much for 90% existing stamina cats. We lost gank damage bonus as well.

Actually except the Redguard, the Khajiit has the best sustain of all other races.
But while the Redguard would need to add some Crit to catch the 8% bonus (AY for example), we could add reduction with either Hircine or VO. And we (the Khajiit) are on top after that

As for Magicka, is bigger boost than the Altmer ever had. 14.5% over 9%!!!!!!

susmitds · January 2019

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

For a pure stamina build, Khajiit remains the same, while all other stamina races got buffed. Magicka buffs don't do much for 90% existing stamina cats. We lost gank damage bonus as well.

Actually except the Redguard, the Khajiit has the best sustain of all other races.
But while the Redguard would need to add some Crit to catch the 8% bonus (AY for example), we could add reduction with either Hircine or VO. And we (the Khajiit) are on top after that

As for Magicka, is bigger boost than the Altmer ever had. 14.5% over 9%!!!!!!

Bosmer sustain of 254 stamina recovery effectively becomes 400 stamina recovery. Which is way beyond double of Khajiit, like it used to be. Orc using weapon spammable has effectively 380 stamina regen, still higher than Khajiit, but understandable as it is conditional. Still for pure PvE DPS, especially without group sustain support, Orcs will beat Khajiit.

John_Falstaff · January 2019

@p_tsakirisb16_ESO , don't forget that weapon/spell power formula includes max resource as well, so the redguad already has counterbalance to 8% crit in the form of 2k stamina (unbuffed too), which would amount to, I think, 192 weapon damage. Khajiit has 750 for 72 weapon damage, so redguad also has advantage of about 120 weapon damage.

Azyle1 · January 2019

susmitds wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

For a pure stamina build, Khajiit remains the same, while all other stamina races got buffed. Magicka buffs don't do much for 90% existing stamina cats. We lost gank damage bonus as well.

Actually except the Redguard, the Khajiit has the best sustain of all other races.
But while the Redguard would need to add some Crit to catch the 8% bonus (AY for example), we could add reduction with either Hircine or VO. And we (the Khajiit) are on top after that

As for Magicka, is bigger boost than the Altmer ever had. 14.5% over 9%!!!!!!

Bosmer sustain of 254 stamina recovery effectively becomes 400 stamina recovery. Which is way beyond double of Khajiit, like it used to be. Orc using weapon spammable has effectively 380 stamina regen, still higher than Khajiit, but understandable as it is conditional. Still for pure PvE DPS, especially without group sustain support, Orcs will beat Khajiit.

So my question is... outside of the sustain, what about DPS?
Khajiit didn't gain anymore stam did they? They still have crit. So won't they still be pretty good dps wise?

GaunterODim · January 2019

I didnt ask for magicka bonuses for khajiit. The 8% speelcrit are not bad and Ive always wondered why it wasnt a thing to begin with, but I dislike the magicka stat and regen bonuses as they subtract from stamina and health bonuses.

Id prefer it if theyd done it similar to the altmer passives where you would get something out of the spellcrit, but the rest would be stamina oriented with a bit of health.
Anyone that played a magicka based khajiit before doesnt care much about numbers and would still get a huge buff with the crit.

John_Falstaff · January 2019

@Azyle1 , khajiit gained 750 of every resource, so it's a small buff too. Also got closer to redguad because redguad lost about 1-1.5k max stamina. So I would say that damage wise, even a tiny bit better than before, though more sustain would be welcome.

Azyle1 · January 2019

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Azyle1 , khajiit gained 750 of every resource, so it's a small buff too. Also got closer to redguad because redguad lost about 1-1.5k max stamina. So I would say that damage wise, even a tiny bit better than before, though more sustain would be welcome.

@John_Falstaff

Cool. I would need to go home and check my stat sheet on my stamblade, but I'm thinking if it is a small buff, I'll be happy.

Just curious is Orc, Dunmer or Bosmer will outclass Khajiits. We will see in the PTR.

Elwendryll · January 2019

For me it's all buffs accross the board. Sorry for the high regen/gank builds in pvp. I'm personally 100% satisfied. I was afraid about the regen values, but I did the maths and it actually is a buff in the quasi-totality of the scenarii.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · January 2019

Elwendryll wrote: »

For me it's all buffs accross the board. Sorry for the high regen/gank builds in pvp. I'm personally 100% satisfied. I was afraid about the regen values, but I did the maths and it actually is a buff in the quasi-totality of the scenarii.

But all "high regen/gang builds" have at least 1 impenetrable trait on armour. So the change is buff not nerf

ccmedaddy · January 2019

Khajit just became one of the most interesting races in the game. I might end up making my magplar a cat person.

clocksstoppe · January 2019

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

all bonuses are additive NOT Multiplicative .

Why you lie?

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · January 2019

clocksstoppe wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

all bonuses are additive NOT Multiplicative .

Why you lie?

Things change with the Hirst patch back in 2016
Recovery = (Base + Gear + Mundus + Drink) * (Skills + CP)

So where did I "lied"?

On "skill" is
Racial passive + Repetance + Mooncalf + Whirlwind for example

Before Hirst patch they were Racial passive * Repetance * Mooncalf * Whirlwind

nsmurfer · January 2019

khajiit sustain got NERFED, at least in pvp. It was never the best in sustain, but had

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

all bonuses are additive NOT Multiplicative .

Why you lie?

Things change with the Hirst patch back in 2016
Recovery = (Base + Gear + Mundus + Drink) * (Skills + CP)

So where did I "lied"?

it changedback to a different multiplicative formula. check uesp build editor for the exact one.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · January 2019

nsmurfer wrote: »

khajiit sustain got NERFED, at least in pvp. It was never the best in sustain, but had

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

all bonuses are additive NOT Multiplicative .

Why you lie?

Things change with the Hirst patch back in 2016
Recovery = (Base + Gear + Mundus + Drink) * (Skills + CP)

So where did I "lied"?

it changedback to a different multiplicative formula. check uesp build editor for the exact one.

Why you do not load the game put/remove items and skills by yourself to see their effect and bonuses?
Why you do not contribute to prove where the calculations are wrong, instead of acting like slanderer?