Spell-crafting SHOULD NOT be implemented and I hope it NEVER is!

iiYuki

It seems to be a forum meme at this point, people making a new thread multiple times a day about spell-crafting, why we NEED it and how they should implement it etc though I think people seem to be forgetting that ZO$ already have a problem balancing the game without adding even more problems.
Either Spell-crafting will take over the game to a point where only crafted spells are viable or its underwhelming and no one uses it.There is literally no place for spell-crafting to exist in the current game without causing massive problems or cause massive disappointment when its ***.
We all know there will be guides on building "perfect" crafted spells that outclass your class skills in every way, they will streamline all stamina and magicka classes to play in one way and before people go on about "you dont need to follow the META", you do if you want to succeed outside of some obscure build.
I just dont think people are considering how this stuff actually impacts the game. ZO$ already nerfs stuff with a sledgehammer, how long do we think spell-crafting will be a thing if it even was implemented? A few weeks of OP as all hell spells that destroy PvP and make PvE a bore before enough people QQ on the forums and its nerfed into the ground and no-one uses it anymore, and no ZO$ won't "balance" it, they'll nerf it like they nerf everything, by decimating it beyond all recognition.
Spell-crafting is a developer nightmare (especially for incompetent devs *CoughCough* that don't know how to fine tune) and I really hope they never add it in any form to the game.

Latios

Everything is complete speculation at this point, including your post.

I personally don’t care about spellcrafting, but we don’t have information to say it’s a must or to say it’s a nightmare.

There’s a lot of rant in your post, btw, so I’d say it’s considerably biased. Things aren’t only black and white.

ToRelax

iiYuki wrote: »

It seems to be a forum meme at this point, people making a new thread multiple times a day about spell-crafting, why we NEED it and how they should implement it etc [...]

Along with all the anti spellcrafting threads. It's all rather pointless, but the irony here is amusing.

Seraphayel

This game is in dire need of build diversity. At the moment every Stamina and Magicka build is the same. Most Tank and Healer builds are the same. This game has so many skills but the diversity is non-existent.

Spellcrafting could break the meta builds and open up new possibilities. We need it. We need more tools to generate or alter skills and crack this boring build-meta-system up.

Elsonso

Personally, I don't want Spell Crafting until it is fully integrated into the whole class and weapon skill system, essentially replacing them.

Davor

@iiYuki ? Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof.

iiYuki

Davor wrote: »

@iiYuki ? Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof.

Its not that difficult to guess that spell crafting will be (clue is in the name), crafting... spells aka making your skills.

iiYuki

ToRelax wrote: »

iiYuki wrote: »

It seems to be a forum meme at this point, people making a new thread multiple times a day about spell-crafting, why we NEED it and how they should implement it etc [...]

Along with all the anti spellcrafting threads. It's all rather pointless, but the irony here is amusing.

josiahva

iiYuki wrote: »

It seems to be a forum meme at this point, people making a new thread multiple times a day about spell-crafting, why we NEED it and how they should implement it etc though I think people seem to be forgetting that ZO$ already have a problem balancing the game without adding even more problems.
Either Spell-crafting will take over the game to a point where only crafted spells are viable or its underwhelming and no one uses it.There is literally no place for spell-crafting to exist in the current game without causing massive problems or cause massive disappointment when its ***.
We all know there will be guides on building "perfect" crafted spells that outclass your class skills in every way, they will streamline all stamina and magicka classes to play in one way and before people go on about "you dont need to follow the META", you do if you want to succeed outside of some obscure build.
I just dont think people are considering how this stuff actually impacts the game. ZO$ already nerfs stuff with a sledgehammer, how long do we think spell-crafting will be a thing if it even was implemented? A few weeks of OP as all hell spells that destroy PvP and make PvE a bore before enough people QQ on the forums and its nerfed into the ground and no-one uses it anymore, and no ZO$ won't "balance" it, they'll nerf it like they nerf everything, by decimating it beyond all recognition.
Spell-crafting is a developer nightmare (especially for incompetent devs *CoughCough* that don't know how to fine tune) and I really hope they never add it in any form to the game.

Not everyone is a meta-chaser. I am perfectly ok with spellcrafting being underwhelming. You have just described EVERY ABILITY IN THE GAME, either they are OP or underwhelming....that is exactly what I want for spellcrafting(or skillcrafting rather since it would apply to both magicka and stamina spells) to be just like other skills, but allow an expansion of the toolbox available to all builds. You increase the cost slightly from similar class skills and voila! instant balance...utility spells rather than OP spells...easy.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

I hope we get Necromancer instead

josiahva

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

I hope we get Necromancer instead

NO MORE PETS! enough of the lazy builds

HowlKimchi

Seraphayel wrote: »

This game is in dire need of build diversity. At the moment every Stamina and Magicka build is the same. Most Tank and Healer builds are the same. This game has so many skills but the diversity is non-existent.

Spellcrafting could break the meta builds and open up new possibilities. We need it. We need more tools to generate or alter skills and crack this boring build-meta-system up.

Spellcrafting could be great depending on implementation, but the OP's got a point. If spellcrafting is too good, we'd have even less diversity because every class could use it and everyone will.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

josiahva wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

I hope we get Necromancer instead

NO MORE PETS! enough of the lazy builds

I don’t want pets, I want summonable Dremora/Xivkyn companions

Dracan_Fontom

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

I hope we get Necromancer instead

NO MORE PETS! enough of the lazy builds

I don’t want pets, I want summonable Dremora/Xivkyn companions

So... pets

DedEmbryonicCell19

Seraphayel wrote: »

This game is in dire need of build diversity. At the moment every Stamina and Magicka build is the same. Most Tank and Healer builds are the same. This game has so many skills but the diversity is non-existent.

Spellcrafting could break the meta builds and open up new possibilities. We need it. We need more tools to generate or alter skills and crack this boring build-meta-system up.

I agree and disagree with this ..

On the one note I would love to believe this would build lots of diversity, at first ..

On the second note I believe there would be like 4-5 spell everybody would make because of their power ..

This game has a ton of diversity, but people don't want to die to another class so they don't even try .. if everybody looked to have fun and not worry about what class beats them this game would just be better for everybody ..

Some classes SHOULD be more powerful than others ..

Seraphayel

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

I hope we get Necromancer instead

Doesn't tackle any of the build or diversity problems though.

Tasear

We need build diversity.

DaveMoeDee

Seraphayel wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

I hope we get Necromancer instead

Doesn't tackle any of the build or diversity problems though.

Why would adding something every class has add diversity? Wouldn't that be more likely to decrease the diversity between classes?

Dracan_Fontom

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

I hope we get Necromancer instead

Doesn't tackle any of the build or diversity problems though.

Why would adding something every class has add diversity? Wouldn't that be more likely to decrease the diversity between classes?

10 ability slot. 2 ultimates. Currently an unknown number of craftable spells. Highly unlikely everyone to run exact same spells, unless it's due to them being better than class/weapon skills whoch it doubted to be the case

Starlock

I do consider how it impacts the game. I happen to not care about the mythical beast folks call "balance." I'm not a competitive gamer. I barely do PvP, and I'm certainly not into being a sheep who follows whatever some streamer says is the best for some such competitive PvE activity. I'm a storyteller who builds characters with personality and identity. Spellcrafting would do nothing but enhance that.

antihero727

Seraphayel wrote: »

This game is in dire need of build diversity. At the moment every Stamina and Magicka build is the same. Most Tank and Healer builds are the same. This game has so many skills but the diversity is non-existent.

Spellcrafting could break the meta builds and open up new possibilities. We need it. We need more tools to generate or alter skills and crack this boring build-meta-system up.

The game is in need of basic functionality and general stability. They need to take a “less is more” approach to implementing things till basic function is addressed.

Rake

ok

Kiralyn2000

Seraphayel wrote: »

This game is in dire need of build diversity. At the moment every Stamina and Magicka build is the same. Most Tank and Healer builds are the same. This game has so many skills but the diversity is non-existent.

Spellcrafting could break the meta builds and open up new possibilities. We need it. We need more tools to generate or alter skills and crack this boring build-meta-system up.

And why would spellcrafting bring diversity? Based on every other game that's ever added something similar (along with every power change ever made in an MMO), theorycrafters would figure out the Best Possible Result of crafted spells, and then that would become the meta.


(every freeform creation system I've seen in an MMO has been Neat; and then Abused by Min-maxers; and then nerfed into mediocrity. Quest creation system? Min-maxers will figure out the ideal loot/gold/xp farm and abuse it; Power creation system? Min-maxers will figure out the ideal powerset and abuse it. Etc. It's the way of games.)


Odds are that any 'spellcrafting' system they put in will be cosmetic at best. Even just letting people switch the damage type of their class abilities would be abuseable.

Mintaka5

I wouldn't worry. They can't even fix existing balance, what makes you think they will add another layer of *** to the mix?

NOTE: I want spellcrafting, but I feel it will never happen.

josiahva

DedEmbryonicCell19 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

This game is in dire need of build diversity. At the moment every Stamina and Magicka build is the same. Most Tank and Healer builds are the same. This game has so many skills but the diversity is non-existent.

Spellcrafting could break the meta builds and open up new possibilities. We need it. We need more tools to generate or alter skills and crack this boring build-meta-system up.

I agree and disagree with this ..

On the one note I would love to believe this would build lots of diversity, at first ..

On the second note I believe there would be like 4-5 spell everybody would make because of their power ..

This game has a ton of diversity, but people don't want to die to another class so they don't even try .. if everybody looked to have fun and not worry about what class beats them this game would just be better for everybody ..

Some classes SHOULD be more powerful than others ..

Thats just the thing...the vast majority will ALWAYS follow the meta...spellcrafting WILL NOT CHANGE THAT, and that is not the point of spellcrafting, the point is to give the average player who IS NOT A MIN/MAXING META PLAYER the ability to branch out into strange little niche builds. It does not matter if these builds are competitive as long as they are fun for the creator. People on this forum forget that those posting here are not the average player. The average player plays the game a few hours a week and doesnt waste their time posting about games on forums. The fact is that spellcrafting would enhance the experience of "filthy casuals" and if the costing is always above that of the equivalent class skill balance would be easy.

Faulgor

Starlock wrote: »

I do consider how it impacts the game. I happen to not care about the mythical beast folks call "balance." I'm not a competitive gamer. I barely do PvP, and I'm certainly not into being a sheep who follows whatever some streamer says is the best for some such competitive PvE activity. I'm a storyteller who builds characters with personality and identity. Spellcrafting would do nothing but enhance that.

Yeah. How is my Waterwalking spell going to break everyone's balance?

I have yet to see an argument against spellcrafting that couldn't be made against any new skill added to the game.
Everyone's going to use the best possible skill? Like now? That's the worst case scenario?
The only way to enrich build diversity is through making different skills preferable for different classes and builds, which ZOS can screw up or perfect no matter how many non-class skills there are.

josiahva

antihero727 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

This game is in dire need of build diversity. At the moment every Stamina and Magicka build is the same. Most Tank and Healer builds are the same. This game has so many skills but the diversity is non-existent.

Spellcrafting could break the meta builds and open up new possibilities. We need it. We need more tools to generate or alter skills and crack this boring build-meta-system up.

The game is in need of basic functionality and general stability. They need to take a “less is more” approach to implementing things till basic function is addressed.

Thats funny, I play in all areas of the game and functionality and stability is fine 99.9% of the time with the exception of faction zergs all fighting over one keep in Cyrodiil...which is to be expected.

Wildberryjack

Seraphayel wrote: »

This game is in dire need of build diversity. At the moment every Stamina and Magicka build is the same. Most Tank and Healer builds are the same. This game has so many skills but the diversity is non-existent.

Spellcrafting could break the meta builds and open up new possibilities. We need it. We need more tools to generate or alter skills and crack this boring build-meta-system up.

I agree with this so much, especially the first paragraph. That has been my only real issue with this game in terms of gameplay. Every build is the same, it's the same abilities across them all with a few class abilities tossed in. Entire skill lines are worthless, you'd be gimping your DPS seriously if you used them. I mean you can, but yeah, watch your DPS drop into the basement and forget pushing any vet content.

A lot of those unused non-meta skill lines are fun too. Something needs to be done to make them viable so we can have some diversity in our builds without losing so much DPS that we'd have to be carried in a group.

Oberstein

Yes game doesn't need spell-crafting. It's not 2014 anymore. ZOS should abandon spell-crafting project.

Mintaka5

I want a skill none of you meta pieces of turds will ever gain.

Starlock

Faulgor wrote: »

I have yet to see an argument against spellcrafting that couldn't be made against any new skill added to the game.
Everyone's going to use the best possible skill? Like now? That's the worst case scenario?

I think it's the competitive gaming mindset, really. It's not something I'm going to claim to fully understand because that isn't my thing. For me, the "best possible skills" are all different depending on the character I'm playing because I'm creating actual characters, not "builds" as they are called to do some sort of competitive gaming thing.

Faulgor wrote: »

The only way to enrich build diversity is through making different skills preferable for different classes and builds, which ZOS can screw up or perfect no matter how many non-class skills there are.

From my perspective, this is already the case - different skills are already preferable for different classes and "builds" if you step outside of certain expectations of how the game is "supposed to" be played. It seems to me that player goals and expectations are the main reason why there's a perception of lack of diversity. If you're here to have fun, you can really do whatever in this game. The game provides a ton of tools for this already.