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Can we make 2 handlers viable for pve dps this chapter??

ochsinator
ochsinator
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How do you guys think zos could make 2 handers viable as a dps in pve
  • Latios
    Latios
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    Difficult because of the big crit loss from daggers and only one enchant in the weapon. For optimized content, higher critical ratings are very important.

    They could work on the passives and give some sort of passive critical and buff the bleed/initial damage from Carve, I think. Other than that, I don't see DW being behind any time soon.
    The Eon Pokémon.
  • SanSan
    SanSan
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    They already are though. Basic attack = aoe
    execute = aoe
    plus you got class skills that have aoe too.
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    single target instant spammable plz
    Zebendal- Stam Sorc, PC NA
  • ochsinator
    ochsinator
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    Aliyavana wrote: »
    single target instant spammable plz

    Change the wrecking blow morph to something else that changes the ablility to instant cast reducing damage a bit and making the next attack a critical hit
  • jrgray93
    jrgray93
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    They're great in a lot of situations, but uppercut needs reworked. I'd cut the cast time, lower the damage, and redesign the skill as an instant, single-target spammable.

    Other than that, they have their uses, just not if you're trying to get the best possible DPS parse. As said before, they're fine for most people. Personally, I find master 2H with cleave is an absurdly effective setup for killing trash. It's fun to see 30k crits on everything it hits. If you ignore how unreliable uppercut is, 2H weapons are good in PvP. Admittedly less attractive now that enchants are so good on DW, but Gap closer and execute make a huge difference.
    EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job
  • Mr_Walker
    Mr_Walker
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    Yeah, uppercut needs a reduction in cast time, apart from that they're both fun and useful.
  • Khivas_Carrick
    Khivas_Carrick
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    Driving. Will post on return
    Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!
  • p_tsakirisb16_ESO
    p_tsakirisb16_ESO
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    Aliyavana wrote: »
    single target instant spammable plz

    That's Crushing Weapon for. Makes LA with maul hitting like a truck.
  • Khivas_Carrick
    Khivas_Carrick
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    Edited for spelling errors and I added on some extra stuff, particularly at the end.

    That's my honest suggestions to any Devs watching on how to make 2H truly viable and competitive with DW.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    I hope you're the ZoS person to tag for this sort of thing, it's been awhile.

    EDIT*

    Btw, 2H is actually viable for PvE DPS, it just isn't better than DW for the Meta. The changes proposed are just to close the gap and give choices for endgame meta as opposed to "DW DW DW!"
    Edited by Khivas_Carrick on January 7, 2019 5:25AM
    Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!
  • ochsinator
    ochsinator
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    Edited for spelling errors and I added on some extra stuff, particularly at the end.

    That's my honest suggestions to any Devs watching on how to make 2H truly viable and competitive with DW.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    I hope you're the ZoS person to tag for this sort of thing, it's been awhile.

    EDIT*

    Btw, 2H is actually viable for PvE DPS, it just isn't better than DW for the Meta. The changes proposed are just to close the gap and give choices for endgame meta as opposed to "DW DW DW!"

    Yes please this guy makes sense
  • Khivas_Carrick
    Khivas_Carrick
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    ochsinator wrote: »
    Edited for spelling errors and I added on some extra stuff, particularly at the end.

    That's my honest suggestions to any Devs watching on how to make 2H truly viable and competitive with DW.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    I hope you're the ZoS person to tag for this sort of thing, it's been awhile.

    EDIT*

    Btw, 2H is actually viable for PvE DPS, it just isn't better than DW for the Meta. The changes proposed are just to close the gap and give choices for endgame meta as opposed to "DW DW DW!"

    Yes please this guy makes sense

    I mean, if you say so
    Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!
  • ochsinator
    ochsinator
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    ochsinator wrote: »
    Edited for spelling errors and I added on some extra stuff, particularly at the end.

    That's my honest suggestions to any Devs watching on how to make 2H truly viable and competitive with DW.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    I hope you're the ZoS person to tag for this sort of thing, it's been awhile.

    EDIT*

    Btw, 2H is actually viable for PvE DPS, it just isn't better than DW for the Meta. The changes proposed are just to close the gap and give choices for endgame meta as opposed to "DW DW DW!"

    Yes please this guy makes sense

    I mean, if you say so

    All 2h needs it’s more sustain and more crit which is easy to make happen. 2h can be just as viable as DW for pve if these changes happen. My biggest dream for eso is to be able to swing around a big ass sword in end game pve and put out as much damage as kids poking people with one handers. Is that not fair?
  • Cage_Lizardman
    Cage_Lizardman
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    I pug vet dlc regularly with a 2h, it's not harder than with meta dw gear. They are perfectly viable for 95% of content, even many of the harder things.

    If you buff single target dps on 2h then you're going to have to nerf other things about them, which just ends up making them more similar to dw, which is boring.

    The meta nerds are always going to go for the best choice even if the difference is 0.5%, and anything less is always going to be "unviable" to them. The solution to that is ignoring the meta nerds, not buffs or nerfs.
  • Khivas_Carrick
    Khivas_Carrick
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    I pug vet dlc regularly with a 2h, it's not harder than with meta dw gear. They are perfectly viable for 95% of content, even many of the harder things.

    If you buff single target dps on 2h then you're going to have to nerf other things about them, which just ends up making them more similar to dw, which is boring.

    The meta nerds are always going to go for the best choice even if the difference is 0.5%, and anything less is always going to be "unviable" to them. The solution to that is ignoring the meta nerds, not buffs or nerfs.

    While you're not entirely wrong, 2H is still lacking and would benefit greatly from a rework.

    Take note that in my suggestion post I say that DW would need a few tweaks as well but at the end of the day, the two would be much closer to each other while still retaining what makes each of them unique.
    Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!
  • Buzo
    Buzo
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    Reduce Wrecking Blow morph damage by 30% and make it instant, only logical solution to get this weapon line out of its misery. It really makes sense with the changes to empower too, heck this shud have happened patches ago already. And while they‘re at it Flurry must become worthwhile again, Twin Slashes must be toned down to a mediocre Dot with excellent, supportive sideeffects (add Minor Life steal to Bloodcraze for example), and make it non bleed damage because of PvP, leave bleeds exclusive to Axe passives. Right now Twin Slashes even outperforms other spammables cost/damage wise and pops both enchants without weaving. Brawler should be reworked to a strong AoE Dot with mediocre sideeffects, so people have the choice to get away from Bow backbar in PvE. And the list with logical and easy to make adjustments that would generate build diversity would go on and on, but whatever...
    Edited by Buzo on January 7, 2019 1:43PM
    DDuke wrote: »
    ...but yeah, what am I talking. Of course you (a random nobody) know better than people who, you know, actually play NB and create top tier builds for it.
  • GreenhaloX
    GreenhaloX
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    I chuckle every time this kind of thread about how 2H supposedly isn't good for PvE surface on this forum. I kill anything faster with my 2H/greatsword build than DW. Oh, I have a DW toon. Sure, just one, though. It's because I like variety, but one DW is enough. The rest of my stam toons are all sporting 2H/greatsword. This is because, to me, it is more viable and damage inflicting than DW. Don't get me wrong, DW works as well. I have one, and I know how to use it. However, anyone claiming 2H isn't viable or good for PvE are extremely wrong, and ignorant is in there somewhere. Alas, to each their own, though.
  • ochsinator
    ochsinator
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    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    I chuckle every time this kind of thread about how 2H supposedly isn't good for PvE surface on this forum. I kill anything faster with my 2H/greatsword build than DW. Oh, I have a DW toon. Sure, just one, though. It's because I like variety, but one DW is enough. The rest of my stam toons are all sporting 2H/greatsword. This is because, to me, it is more viable and damage inflicting than DW. Don't get me wrong, DW works as well. I have one, and I know how to use it. However, anyone claiming 2H isn't viable or good for PvE are extremely wrong, and ignorant is in there somewhere. Alas, to each their own, though.

    I mean sure maybe saying it’s not viable is a bit of an overstatement but anyone saying that 2h puts out dps as high as dw is just wrong. You can’t put out the same amount of dps because of the lack of sustain, crit, and how slow attacks are.

  • Grynnyl
    Grynnyl
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    How about instead of worrying about making it comparable to DW, we go another direction and try making it competitive with Bow? Make a morph of Wrecking Blow that is decent DoT that can compare with Endless Hail. Increase the DoT of Brawler to be closer Poison Injection(not AS good so the damage shield can remain). The a character could have a 2H AoE bar and a DW single target bar, instead of having to always(normally) reserve a bar for bow to be competitive as DPS.

    Another possibility would be a skill that is a single-target version of Endless Hail. Ticks every half second for 10 seconds but sticks with a single target instead of being AoE.

    Personally, I got tired of chasing the dragon and switched to 2h/Bow in PvE and am having a blast.

    Of course, I am also a Nord nightblade in heavy Bahraha's Curse armor, so my opinion may not mean much...

    ...For Within the Circle of His Sword, There Is Each Man a King...
  • Khivas_Carrick
    Khivas_Carrick
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    Grynnyl wrote: »
    How about instead of worrying about making it comparable to DW, we go another direction and try making it competitive with Bow? Make a morph of Wrecking Blow that is decent DoT that can compare with Endless Hail. Increase the DoT of Brawler to be closer Poison Injection(not AS good so the damage shield can remain). The a character could have a 2H AoE bar and a DW single target bar, instead of having to always(normally) reserve a bar for bow to be competitive as DPS.

    Another possibility would be a skill that is a single-target version of Endless Hail. Ticks every half second for 10 seconds but sticks with a single target instead of being AoE.

    Personally, I got tired of chasing the dragon and switched to 2h/Bow in PvE and am having a blast.

    Of course, I am also a Nord nightblade in heavy Bahraha's Curse armor, so my opinion may not mean much...

    Actually that was my idea with Carve, to make it a super powerful melee bleed. Additionally, Bow itself needs a touch of work, not so much buffs but more....literal attention, like "how can we make players stop picking this ONLY for buffs and maybe also a primary weapon, too?"

    Reread my draft, Carve would solve that lack of a strong DoT problem real quick, and no, 2H does not need it's own Poison Injection because that is a unique bow skill, it's Bow's execute. We have that in Reverse Slash. What 2H needs is a viable instant cast spammable (so players aren't shoehorned into a Templar with Jabs or a Psijic Skill), better passives that make sense (because the current ones don't really apply to anything good), and then it'll be at that perfect sweet spot.
    Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!
  • Khivas_Carrick
    Khivas_Carrick
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    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    I chuckle every time this kind of thread about how 2H supposedly isn't good for PvE surface on this forum. I kill anything faster with my 2H/greatsword build than DW. Oh, I have a DW toon. Sure, just one, though. It's because I like variety, but one DW is enough. The rest of my stam toons are all sporting 2H/greatsword. This is because, to me, it is more viable and damage inflicting than DW. Don't get me wrong, DW works as well. I have one, and I know how to use it. However, anyone claiming 2H isn't viable or good for PvE are extremely wrong, and ignorant is in there somewhere. Alas, to each their own, though.

    I am 110% certain it isn't as high dps for endgame as DW.

    I am 110% it's damn near close enough and viable for endgame content.

    I am of the mind that 2H is better for most content in the game, i.e 4man content, because it does indeed keep you alive easier while doing close to the same dmg as DW.

    My suggestions are less "making 2H OP!" or as meta as DW, just simply closing a long standing gap and making 2H "perfected", as would DW; for instance Blade Cloak should tick every second, not every 3, and it's given buffs should change as well. For it's base form, no buff. For it's morphs, you get a choice between minor resist/ward on one morph, or major brutality on the other. Hidden Blade can just gtfo and become something less clunky and hastily put together.
    Edited by Khivas_Carrick on January 8, 2019 5:42AM
    Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!
  • tamrielwinner
    tamrielwinner
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    2h is ok. works really well in normal dungeon speed runs.
  • Taunky
    Taunky
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    It's already "viable. It's just the meta that throws people off.
  • Royaji
    Royaji
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    It's already viable. Just not optimal. Unless you are pushing scores two-hander is fine to bring for any content.

    And to counter some ideas from this thread
    Single target spammable: has nothing to do with making two-hander better in PvE. Dual-wield does not use its spammable since forever.
    And to the guy who proposed to make Carve as strong as Hail and said Heroism is easy to come by (lolwut?): terrible idea. Bleeds ignore resistances and should never be that strong.
  • max_only
    max_only
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    Taunky wrote: »
    It's already "viable. It's just the meta that throws people off.

    I think it says something that zos’s own in game skill guide never recommends it though.....
    #OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks

    CP 833 || PC/NA ||
    ""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom
  • zyk
    zyk
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    2H is already useful. It doesn't need to be BIS in trials. Buffing it at all will completely break it in PVP.
    Aliyavana wrote: »
    single target instant spammable plz

    But the omission of this was obviously intended. I hate this notion that there should be symmetry across classes and skill lines.
    Edited by zyk on January 8, 2019 7:52AM
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster . . . when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you"
    pvp videos: eso zyk on youtube
    enjin profile
    66
    lives · lived · will live - dies · died · will die
  • Stratloc
    Stratloc
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    I cleared my first vMA with a 2-Hander. And I love it when soloing dungeons or Craglorn stuff. To me, that's where 2-handers shine. Carve is an invaluable survival tool. Reverse slice is an excellent AoE execute. Rally is good if you don't wanna waste potions and has a nice little HoT included.
    This is from a NB perspective.
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
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    2H Light and Heavies need to be readjusted for their respective cast time.

    Follow Up needs to have an additional effect.

    Un-nerf Forceful.

    Heavy Weapons needs to be completely redesigned, Maul is the only noncraptastic weapon, and we know how popular DW maces are.

    Wrecking Blow is really good, but falls short due to lost light attacks. This can somewhat be mitigated by buffing LA's base damage.
    0331
    0602
  • Dillpat
    Dillpat
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    using crushing weapon u can use them viably in endgame pve dungeons and all by vDLC trials although if u have a strong rotation and a solid group ofc u can still use it but you wont be doing as much dmg.

    to make it better for endgame vDLC however, buff the bleed dmg of carve maybe by a bit (the other morph of cleave that isnt brawler) and swap 2h maul penetration for critical maybe, or carve gives a critical dmg done buff or % that isnt major minor.
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