Should there be a sorc sustain fix?

Aethereal'Golden

Well, the development crew are now tinkering with racial passives, so maybe they will add each race more powerful ways to sustain. However, I prefer them to just buff sorcerer's sustain mechanic after all the things they've done.

mairwen85

Aethereal'Golden wrote: »

Well, the development crew are now tinkering with racial passives, so maybe they will add each race more powerful ways to sustain. However, I prefer them to just buff sorcerer's sustain mechanic after all the things they've done.

Indeed, it's a class issue, not racial. I hope they don't fiddle with races like that. It will only create more balancing issues that they will try to address in classes... Fix the classes first ffs!

iiYuki

Dr3sden wrote: »

What hasn't it been fixed? I thought I read long time ago it was issue class rep people brought up? Is it really problem for Sorc class? Doesn't everyone have sustain issues since morrowind?

The issues get brought up and unless the design team already wanted to make changes or fix the issue it never gets touched. Like how they changed Dark Conversion to restore less instant magicka but restore more magicka by adding a over time effect except you get something like 2.4k over 20 seconds and that was the fix as if +100 Magicka regen is any help what so ever. Basically ZO$ want us to use pet builds without expressly saying that Sorcerers use pets...

carlos424

mairwen85 wrote: »

@carlos424 I think cost is big part of the problem overall. Comparatively high vs return, be that damage or aid/sustain.

Upping damage would be a buff, and cause calls for nerfs. Lowering cost would be a buff, leading to calls for nerfs. Adding a class base rate of sustain would be a buff... The class needs fixing in a way that doesn't cause it to excel, just be on par. Therein lies the quandary... Its a precision job that requires a clear design goal. Are zos up to the task?

At this point increasing sustain and damage would only put sorc on par with everyone else. But that won’t happen over night. We know there will be some changes in the future. How soon is anyone’s guess. What did it take for templars, year and a half-two years? Lol. I think that lowering cost and/or increasing sustain should be the first place to start. Will make playing sorc more enjoyable at least. Even though still behind in damage.

rexagamemnon

NO.

AuraNebula

I'm hitting 43k on my mom pet sorc right now. The whole time I'm constantly worried about sustain. Every light attack has to be perfect. Have to get my timing better on my dots and not casting 2 seconds before they're done or my sustain is shot. If I accidentally cast LL a couple times too early it will completely ruin a parse.
Being a vampire and running absorb magicka glyphs helps but at the cost of my survivability and my max damage.

Just a bit more sustain would make a world of difference.

WitchyWarrior

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Heavy attack build. 42k self buffed 6m. Not the best, but good enough for me.

by heavy attack you mean pet sorc.

non pet sorc massively needs a sustain buff

No, buddy. Not a petsorc. I run one scamp, no twilight, no curse.

If you want to call that your typical petsorc, you'd just be emphasizing your inexperience.

Yeah. So you're a petsorc.
1st step is admitting it.

templesus

It’s 2018 and people still aren’t using spell symmetry? Seriously? You should have no problem sustaining in any End Game fight. People need to stop using Dummies as a benchmark. Go into actual raid, hit orbs, have absorb magicka enchant back bar, use spell sym at appropriate moments (ie when converting on twins or shades on Factotum) and you’ll sustain fine and pull fine DPS assuming you know your rotation.

Camb0Sl1ce

I mentioned in a thread a while back, i believe a good solution for no pet sorc sustain would be to tie their sustain to haunting curse. So for example after the second explosion it restores x amount amount of magicka, it would allow somewhat skillful play in promoting not over casting it.

carlos424

Kel wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

The problem is not 'why do i have to heavy atrack', but the sheer dependency on it. My stam blade has to heavy once per three full rotations. See the difference?

Since you felt the need to edit after the fact, let me address this after.

Yes, there are many differences. The obvious one is class. The other is your damage pool.

But the biggest one is possibly the gear. What gear are you running on this stamblade? Bone Pirate, by chance? If so, I'd ask why you'd build stamblade for sustain while at the same time complaining about the necessity of having to build sorc for sustain. I play stamblade, I actually have a mag/stam of every class. Stamblade doesn't just automatically have sustain unless you build for it...you don't just have it.
Same is true for sorc..or any other class for that matter.

I know..we all got spoiled at the beginning of Summerset...could build for max damage while being super tanky and have sustain for days. But, those days are gone.
Sorc is what it is, and the combat team seems happy with sorc in its current state. No amount of forum posts are going to change that. If anything, it seems to make them dig in thier heals more.
By all means, keep bringing up issues and ideas, but can we at least stop pretending there are solutions out there and attacking eachother (in a general sense, not directed at you personally) when another sorc says they found something that actually works?

Most classes have some sort of class skill that offers sustain. Sorcerer does not, that I am aware of. I think that is the point people are making. And heavy attacking offers great sustain, sure, but you lose damage. Thats no problem for your stamblade which probably hits well over 50k. But I dont know any sorcs that come close to 50k. Sure sorcs can build for sustain but you will sacrifice more damage and fall even farther behind.

LittlePinkDot

Its a terrible class, and then they made it worse. We need classchange tokens.

I switched to mageblade for pve, much better.

stuartx13

I run warlock set and spam all day long.

mairwen85

rexagamemnon wrote: »

NO.

Thank you for the enlightening and lucid input.

The way I see it, 2 statements can be drawn from this discussion (all posts considered, even 'sorc is fine because xynode') :

1) sorc sustain is fine as it is and well balanced compared to other classes. By this rationale, the other classes are overperforming = fix other classes.

2) all other classes have equal, balanced sustain. By this logic, sorc is underperforming = fix sorc.

Which do you agree with?

mairwen85

Just wanted to revisit this. In light of the anti-cookie cutter sentiment and alternative builds threads, does anyone have a viable build for sorc, somewhere between alcast and xynode, built for sustain but without the high sacrifice for magicka and spell/weapon damage, that plays light attack weave with decent damage output on par with other classes? Or maybe, branching this discussion, suggestion on tweaks and tuning that could achieve it?

I'd love to hear a theory crafter's, like alcast, position on it too

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Royaji wrote: »

I think ZOS made it pretty clear with last patch's changes that in their vision sorc is supposed to be a pet class and run at least one pet. Non-pet sorc is just a weaker magblade. Why don't you go play magblade/magplar for non-pet build?

For a game that used to advertise "Play how you want" it seems that at least in terms of PvE DPS, you have to DPS how ZOS wants.

Every build that someone has come up that is in the top tier of DPS but doesn't use one of ZOS's precious trial sets has been nerfed. (e.g mechanical accuity) Proc set crits have been nerfed. Skills have been nerfed. and yet relequen gives about 6k DPS from a proc set. Because it is ZOS approved(TM).